Author Topic: micro-nikkor Z  (Read 22355 times)

simsurace

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2021, 17:02:14 »
Thanks Michael. Do you find the 125 and 110 to have similar rendering? Right now the new Nikon Z and the CV 110 seem to be about the same price. So besides the AF, I wonder if one of them will come out clearly on top. Let's wait and see.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2021, 18:04:23 »
Thanks Michael. Do you find the 125 and 110 to have similar rendering? Right now the new Nikon Z and the CV 110 seem to be about the same price. So besides the AF, I wonder if one of them will come out clearly on top. Let's wait and see.

The CV125 is one of the great macro lenses, IMO. I would wait to see how the new Z Macro 105mm is like. It may do it all.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2021, 19:27:56 »
There is a small review (video) at Nikon Rumors. Also MTF curves are shown and compared with the old 105 VR.
The MTF for the new S-version looks quite good and the review shows that CA is good controlled and VR works well.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2021, 19:33:32 »
There is a small review (video) at Nikon Rumors. Also MTF curves are shown and compared with the old 105 VR.
The MTF for the new S-version looks quite good and the review shows that CA is good controlled and VR works well.

My guess is that this new Z macro 105 s is going to be a real winner. They would be crazy to do otherwise, after we have waited up to now for them to produce one.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

MEPER

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2021, 20:45:29 »
Yes, it is tempting to get it even I don't spend enough time on taking pictures to justify it.
A shame I have the current 105 VR. Guess price will drop a lot. I find it ok for "non-macro" general photography.

MEPER

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2021, 21:01:32 »
The 105 has more impressive MTF curves than the 50?
https://photographylife.com/news/nikon-z-50mm-105mm-macro-announcement

....even that image quality can't be judged just by looking at MTF's.....but for a high resolution macro you expect nice straight MTF's?

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2021, 22:43:27 »
For fun I attached my 105/2.8 VR to my Z50 and shot a metal screw to get some metallic reflections to force some CA from the lens.
This is the reason I don't like the lens (this purple / green CA)......and a reason to get the new one.

Then I put on a Minolta scanner lens and took a similar image (flash not able to illuminate the right side of screw).....but you probably get the idea....
Image free from CA.....and with all CA-corrections switched off.

I never understood the 105/2.8 VR......why it was designed that way...?

It was just quick hand hold direct flash shots.....for demonstration.....so technical poor.....but quick....

simsurace

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2021, 02:11:04 »
The CV125 is one of the great macro lenses, IMO. I would wait to see how the new Z Macro 105mm is like. It may do it all.

Yes, perhaps. But I was wondering whether you have found the CV125 to have similar rendering as the Voigtlander 110mm for Sony?
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2021, 02:45:29 »
Yes, perhaps. But I was wondering whether you have found the CV125 to have similar rendering as the Voigtlander 110mm for Sony?

This is very subjective. I like both the 110 and the 65 Voigtlander, but the CV125 has a style and IQ all its own, IMO. I have dozens of macro lenses, and the CV125 is the best all-around macro lens for me, although I have sharper, better corrected, longer throw, etc. and etc., but none with all the good qualities that the CV125 has. The new Nikon 105mm Z s lens may do it all too and better, but we will see.
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com, Daily Blog at https://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine. main site: SpiritGrooves.net, https://www.youtube.com/user/merlewine, Founder: MacroStop.com, All-Music Guide, All-Movie Guide, Classic Posters.com, Matrix Software, DharmaGrooves.com

Ilkka Nissilä

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2021, 11:17:11 »
I never understood the 105/2.8 VR......why it was designed that way...?

What the 105 VR brought with it was very pleasing bokeh for a macro lens (I never felt any of the AF D Micro-Nikkors were this nice, sometimes they produce rough lines in backgrounds which the 105 VR does not), and also the focusing was an improvement over the older AF versions (both manual and autofocus) and the color rendition is nice. But yes, there are aberrations and one can never really see the kind of sharpness at 1:1 that one might have expected. However, for close-ups with a bit less magnification (say 1:3) I have obtained results that are sharp and pleasing. It depends on what one's needs are, what is the best lens. The 105 VR is clearly not a lens optimized for aberration-free imaging at 1:1. But e.g. for a portrait with only a part of the face visible, it does a nice job.

I ended up using 85 PC-E for most close-ups and 200 AF D Micro for things requiring greater working distance or magnification between 1:2 and 1:1. My 105 VR has not been used all that much. However, it's not a bad lens, it's just not the right lens for 1:1 work or technical reproduction. :-)

Sometimes in interviews Nikon note the need for lens designers to consider other things in addition to MTF but also to make them "playful". I sometimes wonder what they mean, but there is this quality of a lens to somehow titillate the viewer, creating something that is not a technical 2D copy of the subject but an artistic thing of its own. Quite a few Nikkors produce images which are characteristic of not only the subject but the lens and create something that clearly didn't exist outside of the photograph. These include colour, flare, mood, feeling. I think the 105 VR tries to do this, and the 60 AF-S is more successful and the latter is one of my favorite lenses. However, users' requirements and preferences in lenses change and today, with the high-resolution sensors available, the objectives of lens designers are again different, and Nikon too produce lenses that resolve very fine detail rather than focus on creating mood. The two are not mutually exclusive but it still seems that it is not sufficient to just correct aberrations if a 3D subject is to be photographed in varying lighting conditions.

An interesting example is the 14-24/2.8 F-mount lens; it creates ghosts in a prolific manner with a bright light source placed just outside or even within the frame. My 20mm f/1.8G produces much less ghosting (instead of a series of 10 or so colorful ghosts like with the zoom, there might be one ghost that is hard to locate). However, there is something about the 14-24's images that create a luminous, airy feeling in interior images that is very pleasing to me, and seems to be missing in images from the 20 mm. I sold the zoom because I was mostly using it on travels and I realized I didn't want to carry such a heavy lens around for the not so usual superwide angle shots, and the 20 is such a tiny and lightweight lens that produces a technically better image, and is more consistent autofocuser, but in retrospect the zoom is a lens that has a special quality and something that cannot be solely defined by parameters that characterise its ability to reproduce detail. I guess what I'm trying to say that a lens that does well in technical lens tests or works well for reproducing detail might fail in some circumstances to create aesthetically pleasing images of real-world subjects whereas a lens that has what might be characterized as "flaws" may be able to succeed in some tasks that require the creation of a certain feeling rather than merely reproducing a subject.

simsurace

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2021, 13:01:48 »
My understanding was that the LoCA was, at least for a certain period in history, associated with design parameters for good Bokeh. From memory, I believe that the Nikon f/1.4 lenses up until the 28E and 105E had quite a bit of LoCA. The 85mm f/1.4 AF-D is still IMO a landmark lens for its rendition of the transition to out-of-focus, but in the wrong circumstances it shows quite hideous LoCA, so it needs to be used judiciously. For me the Zeiss 135mm APO Sonnar is a benchmark in combining minimal LoCA with a pleasing background blur, with a slight tendency towards a clinical rendition and a noticeably more abrupt transition than e.g. the 85/1.4 I just mentioned. The 60mm AF-S micro is in my experience very nice as well in both background rendering and quite contained LoCA and handles shiny metal quite competently. It would be nice to have something like that in the 105mm focal length.
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Erik Lund

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2021, 15:17:03 »
The 105mm AF-S VR f/2.8 is an IF and non-extending lens design that is a huge advantage when using A flash mounted on the lens front filter threads. Yes it also has a lot of focus breathing, loss of focal length when focusing.

The 105mm f/2.8 Micro Nikkor Ais had a front CRC group that would suffer from wear for use of lens mounted flash, also mounting mounting and removing filters put stress on the front of that lens.
Erik Lund

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2021, 15:20:13 »
On a side note I agree on the description of the 14-24mm AF-S f/2.8 that I have reacquired for the same reasons, wonderful image quality if you take great care for the sun or other strong lights at the image edge! Extremly nice in IR and on a Z camera you can easily see the flare, that is not always the case shooting on DSLR  :o 8)
Erik Lund

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2021, 18:36:36 »
I agree the 105/2.8 VR has a very nice bokeh when used as general purpose mid-tele.
It will probably be my use for it and I should explore this more. Then the AF-switch will be set to 0.5m to infinity (instead of "full").
I noticed that the new 105 has a AF setting only for close-ups. This difference may indicate what the two lenses are best suited for.....
I remember reviews that was quite positive about the lens when it was tested at infinity. The built quality is nice. I am sure fine portraits can be made with this lens.

 

Roland Vink

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Re: micro-nikkor Z
« Reply #89 on: June 08, 2021, 22:40:25 »
The 105mm AF-S VR f/2.8 is an IF and non-extending lens design that is a huge advantage when using A flash mounted on the lens front filter threads. Yes it also has a lot of focus breathing, loss of focal length when focusing.
I have noticed that the term "focus breathing" is used to describe two different things. For stills photography, focus breathing generally refers to the change in focal length of the lens when focusing. In many lenses this shows as focal length reduction at close range, and is especially noticeable in some lenses such as the AFS 105VR micro, AFS 70-200 VR, and many super-zooms. The result is that the image magnification at close range is less, and field of view is wider, than a comparable lens without focus breathing.

For videographers, "focus breathing" refers to the change in image magnification when focusing. The ideal lens is one that keeps objects in the frame the same size when focusing from near to far. If a unit-focusing lens is used, the objects in the frame (whether in focus or not) become enlarged and the field of view is reduced. To counter this, I guess most lenses for video are designed so the focal length reduces when focusing closer, so the field of view and image magnification is constant. In other words, using "focus breathing" to fix "focus breathing" :o :)

As for the AFS 105 VR micro, it ultimately has similar focal length reduction as the older AF 105 micro - at 1:1 both focus to 0.314m with a focal length of about 75mm. The difference is that the AF micro loses focal length more or less constantly from infinity to 1:1, while the AFS has no focal length reduction at medium-far distances and then has more dramatic loss at close range. See: http://www.pierretoscani.com/focale.html#focale37Animation

The new Z 105 micro focuses to 0.29m at 1:1, which is 24mm (nearly 1 inch) shorter than the older 105 micros. This suggests it has even more focal length reduction at close range (even though the optical design is broadly similar to the AFS 105 VR micro). It's possible the way it loses focal length as been adjusted to reduce focus breathing (the video kind) since this is a greater design priority in modern Nikkors, leading to a greater overall loss of focal length and reduced focus distance.