Author Topic: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5  (Read 4395 times)

Michael Erlewine

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The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« on: March 29, 2018, 22:59:32 »
On my seemingly-eternal search for interesting lenses for close-up work I could not help but come across the Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5 CAS lens, if only because Schneider promotes the Macro Varon all over the place. And that’s a lot of promotion for a lens most photographers have never heard of.

Well, I heard about the Macro Varon and searched it down to its price tag of $4500 and that set me back on my heels a bit. I don’t need a new lens THAT much. Well, perhaps a Zeiss Otus or two would be alright, which I already have. I did make some calls, sent out some email requests, and finally found that the Macro Varon could be had for somewhere in the mid $3K range brand-new. Well, of course that just sent me to Ebay looking for used copies. However, while it has happened, the Macro Varon does not show up used on Ebay very often, in fact hardly ever. And that limited my searching. I did find out that one sold on Ebay some time ago.

Again, I spoke with Schneider reps about the Makro Varon on the phone and finally just let it go. It’s not that I don’t have other lenses that I might buy. LOL. And for those of you foolish enough to think I’m rich, guess again. I sell old equipment to buy new equipment as I go along. I just do it methodically.

To make a long story short, recently a good friend sent me a message that there was a Makro Varon actually on Ebay for $1500. Well, that turned the corner for me and I bought it in about a minute from receiving the message. It came from China, was used, but looked in decent condition. When the lens finally showed up at my door, it was obviously brand new or in mint condition. However, it came in a strange industrial lens-mount which held the lens captive with three very tiny screws.

I exhausted my collection of tiny screwdrivers, flat, Phillips, and torx (star). Then I called the local optician and gear-heads and discovered that no one had a tool that small. Well, that was disappointing, since I had no way to mount the lens without first removing this big clucky adapter that gripped it. Then I went salvaging through dozens of boxes of camera-related stuff and finally found a set of tiny torx drivers, but none of them was small enough to work. However, there was one (tiny) hole where a missing torx wrench should be. Where was it? And sure enough, in the bottom of my box of Cambo Actus parts was the tiny torx screwdriver and to my surprise, it worked! I had the lens mounted in a few minutes and was good to go.

Now, I wanted to find out if this lens is best mounted directly to the camera and the camera placed on a focus rail, or should the lens be mounted directly on the camera with a small helicoid to focus with. The lens itself has no way to focus. It has six aperture blades (I wish there were more) and it has f/stops from f.4.5 through and including f/8. It does have something special, however.

The Macro Varon has an additional ring on the barrel that allows me to adjust the floating lens parts in the lens to fit a particular magnification ratio from 0.5x to 2.0x. This compensates and suppresses aberration depending on the magnification ratio. The only other lens that I have that has such a ring is the first edition of the Nikon Printing Nikkor 150mm APO f/2.8. And these rings actually work.

Another rather unique feature of the Macro Varon is that on each individual lens, during final adjustment, a tiny drop of red paint is placed on the rim of the barrel that allows (when the M42 adapter is screwed on tight) me to orient the particular lens to the camera sensor orthogonally, at right-angles. This red dot is calculated and optimized at the factory for each individual lens. They differ.

Anyway, I soon figured out that (at least for now) I get the most play out of mounting the lens on the Cambo Actus Mini View Camera. Next, I had to decide what kind of hood would be best, since my first shots (made without a hood) lacked a bit of contrast. I tried both flared and narrow-tube hoods and finally fashioned one from the Nikon K-Ring set, one K5 plus two K3s all screwed together. They made a nice tubular hood that seems fine so far.

Mounted on the Cambo Actus Mini, I soon found out that the large (special order) cambo bellows I normally use prevented me from getting as much field of view as I wanted with this lens, so I substituted a short bellows, which is fine because I do not need as much room with the Macro Varon anyway. That helped a bunch.

I could also look into using a tiny extension/helicoid mounted directly on the camera, but I doubt that I would gain much, and moving the rear-standard on a view camera is better for stacking than using a helicoid. Anyway, I am up and running.

Here is a quick photo of my setup, the Nikon D850 on the Cambo Actus Mini. On that is the Schneider Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5 lens adapted to Nikon mount, with a hood made of several K-rings. So far, so good. And I include a few early shots taken with the Makro Varon to give you an idea of what this lens can produce.

This setup is not hiking-material, but certainly can go outside to the fields and meadows, at least if there is easy access so that the gear does not have to be carried far. The lens itself would be easy to carry for hikes, but would have to include some form of helicoid to focus or be happy with a DOF at F/8 and fixed focus.

Anyway, I’m checking out the Schneider Macro Varon 85mm and would be interested in any other user’s experience.

A fine review of the Scheider Macro Varon is this one by Robert O’Toole:

https://www.closeuphotography.com/macro-varon/schneider-macro-varon-lens
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Akira

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2018, 00:05:55 »
Well, Michael, I've already run out of the words to express my appreciation of your quest for the image quality with an artistic taste.  Nevertheless, the images look awesome!
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Jacques Pochoy

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2018, 00:49:10 »
I fully agree... :)
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beryllium10

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2018, 05:36:54 »
Outstanding photos.  The second last especially so.

Cheers,  John

Erik Lund

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2018, 10:46:22 »
Very nice setup and images ! Agreed second t last is fantastic
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John Geerts

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2018, 11:49:58 »

The second last especially so.

Yes, sensational.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2018, 12:52:53 »
What your looking at in the second-to-last image is the fact that the Makro Varon resolves down to 2.5 microns per pixel, so it easily outperforms the Nikon D850 sensor I am using. I am just getting used to it. It may be a little weak in contrast, but time and practice will tell. It is sharp and has modern coatings.
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JKoerner007

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2018, 14:06:12 »
What your looking at in the second-to-last image is the fact that the Makro Varon resolves down to 2.5 microns per pixel, so it easily outperforms the Nikon D850 sensor I am using. I am just getting used to it. It may be a little weak in contrast, but time and practice will tell. It is sharp and has modern coatings.

Good morning, Michael :)

What I am seeing in the Coinimaging.com tests (Lens Type > Bellows Lens | Select Lens > Schneider Macro Varon 85/4.5 | 13 Tests) is a premium performer from 1:2 to 2:1, which is the missing link to the Laowa 25mm f/2.8 2.5-5x Ultra Macro.

Thanks for the tip, the terrific images, as well as the lens porn ;D

Real quick, what I notice is this:

1. Super-super, super sharp images; that are
2. Yes, lacking contrast a bit; and
3. Have no bokeh sweetness at all ... however ...

4. The closer you get (as in the second-to-last image), the more the contrast/color *pops*, and the more jaw-dropping the detail becomes :o

For my purposes, it could/would never replace the CV 125 for anything I'd do from infinity down to 1:1, where the bokeh/draw of the Voigtländer would prevail.

However, for high-mag macro, 1:1 to 2:1, where detail becomes paramount ... this lens would really show its true colors (pardon the pun).

Critiquing the other images, they are just okay imo, kind of clinical/very flat; whereas the detail of the second-to-last is pretty mind-blowing.

For what I do, beyond 1:1 (up to 5:1), I am in fact looking for a lens to fill 1:1 to 2:5 void, which the 2.5-5x Laowa leaves ... and this Schneider may be that magic bullet.

It's hard to imagine a lens being any more detailed ... thanks for sharing!

Michael Erlewine

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2018, 14:25:15 »


For what I do, beyond 1:1 (up to 5:1), I am in fact looking for a lens to fill 1:1 to 2:5 void, which the 2.5-5x Laowa leaves ... and this Schneider may be that magic bullet.

It's hard to imagine a lens being any more detailed ... thanks for sharing!

My view is that, if you study the CoinImaging.com graphs, the Printing Nikkors easily outperform the Macro Varon in many areas, just as they do the CV-125. What is significant to me about the CV-125 is that OVERALL it is the best all-around lens for shooting close-up and macro. In the same way, although there are things I don't like about the Macro Varon, it may well be the best all-around lens, not just for 1:1 and above, but rather for images that benefit from recording their complex detail, of which there are many.

The fact that it is "modern" as regards coatings, etc. helps a lot. And it is small and fairly easy to handle. I have yet to prove to myself that I would use it at f/8 (it's highest) for single-shot photos and I would not use it except wide-open for stacking. As for bokeh, well, the APO-El Nikkor 105 is f/f.6 and I seem to drag considerable bokeh out of that lens, so why should this be different at f/4.5. The contrast issue troubles me.

For me, I just don't know how to use it yet to get the best out of it. It may be that the "clinical" look will remain, but hopefully not. Both the CV-126 and the APO El Nikkor 105 have a softness that is beautiful, which this lens does not show, but then again, if I want something to be strong in detail, at least the CV-125 has more trouble doing that. The Printing Nikkors can do it, but always in a very limited range, for the most part.

So, the Macro Varon is just another member of a group of lenses that I will probably use, provided I can get control of it. I would think that for jumping spiders and things like that, this could be ideal. And it is tiny. Even with a small helicoid/extension, it would weigh almost nothing. Trying to find a really small helicoid may be a problem. Klaus Schmitt is the one I know who knows these devices.

Anyone have links to small helicoids that work well?
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JKoerner007

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2018, 15:04:37 »
My view is that, if you study the CoinImaging.com graphs, the Printing Nikkors easily outperform the Macro Varon in many areas, just as they do the CV-125. What is significant to me about the CV-125 is that OVERALL it is the best all-around lens for shooting close-up and macro. In the same way, although there are things I don't like about the Macro Varon, it may well be the best all-around lens, not just for 1:1 and above, but rather for images that benefit from recording their complex detail, of which there are many.

Totally agree with this, Michael.

It's not the CV 125's "sharpness" which makes it what it is (although quite sharp); it's the overall presentation: sharp, beautiful colors, exquisite bokeh.


The fact that it is "modern" as regards coatings, etc. helps a lot. And it is small and fairly easy to handle. I have yet to prove to myself that I would use it at f/8 (it's highest) for single-shot photos and I would not use it except wide-open for stacking. As for bokeh, well, the APO-El Nikkor 105 is f/f.6 and I seem to drag considerable bokeh out of that lens, so why should this be different at f/4.5. The contrast issue troubles me.

Agree with this as well.

The lens does appear more contrasty, up-close, but it is troublesome that a camera renowned for having "the best color rendering on the current market" (D850) produces flat/bland images (though highly-detailed) with this lens.


For me, I just don't know how to use it yet to get the best out of it. It may be that the "clinical" look will remain, but hopefully not. Both the CV-126 and the APO El Nikkor 105 have a softness that is beautiful, which this lens does not show, but then again, if I want something to be strong in detail, at least the CV-125 has more trouble doing that. The Printing Nikkors can do it, but always in a very limited range, for the most part.

Agreed, again.


So, the Macro Varon is just another member of a group of lenses that I will probably use, provided I can get control of it. I would think that for jumping spiders and things like that, this could be ideal. And it is tiny. Even with a small helicoid/extension, it would weigh almost nothing. Trying to find a really small helicoid may be a problem. Klaus Schmitt is the one I know who knows these devices.
Anyone have links to small helicoids that work well?

My thoughts exactly: it is very difficult to extract supreme detail out of tiny arthropods ... and this lens may well be the one to do the trick.

As you say above, the trick is to learn "how to use it" ... and my first thought was how nice the colors looked in the second-to-last (most detailed) photo, compared to the others.

This may be even more augmented and double-the closeness, which is what I intend to find out :)

Cheers.

Frank Fremerey

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2018, 18:20:48 »
these pictures look even better that expected. great lighting!!!
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Dr Klaus Schmitt

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2018, 19:00:54 »
Wonderful that you got yours so quickly, as that seller had two for sale, I got the 2nd, after I informed you, which is in transit to Germany now  ;)

The results justify well what I had expected from that lens, but actually the close ups (rose and gerbera) blew me away -
I did not expect it to be THAT good. Admittedly a Printing Nikkor may be better, but considering how tiny and light it is
and that huge range it may be used with 0.5...2x really speaks in favour of that industrial high resolution 12k lens. It will
be nice just on a helicoid used in the field...

I see you made a large sunshade, I was thinking about one too, as long and narrow as possible to keep stray light away.

Excited to have mine here after Easter Holidays!

PS: that Rose in pc #2 is a STUNNER!!!

PPS: I will use a small high quality (aka brass) helicoid with it, hopefully this will be fine enough to focus...
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Frank Fremerey

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2018, 08:41:59 »
Wonderful that you got yours so quickly, as that seller had two for sale, I got the 2nd, after I informed you, which is in transit to Germany now  ;)

The results justify well what I had expected from that lens, but actually the close ups (rose and gerbera) blew me away -
I did not expect it to be THAT good. Admittedly a Printing Nikkor may be better, but considering how tiny and light it is
and that huge range it may be used with 0.5...2x really speaks in favour of that industrial high resolution 12k lens. It will
be nice just on a helicoid used in the field...

I see you made a large sunshade, I was thinking about one too, as long and narrow as possible to keep stray light away.

Excited to have mine here after Easter Holidays!

PS: that Rose in pc #2 is a STUNNER!!!

PPS: I will use a small high quality (aka brass) helicoid with it, hopefully this will be fine enough to focus...


Is seems like a must have item. I already start looking. I am really interested how it compares to my APO Digitar N°48 5.6/120mm which is stellar already!

Funny how your setup and my current resemble in looks (D850, bellows, front plate). Only mine, based on a sinar p2 is much much heavier and next to untransportable:

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Macro_Cosmos

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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2018, 09:02:20 »
Really nice results! For $1500, it's still slightly on the expensive side but better than paying $4000 for sure.

The Makro Varon lenses are digital enlarging lenses that are used in assembly lines, such as inspecting products and quality control. It has extremely high resolution, as illustrated by the phones and your explanations.

Looking sexy on the actus too :P One day I will get an arca cube.
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Re: The Schneider Kreuznach Macro Varon 85mm f/4.5
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2018, 12:42:51 »

 I am really interested how it compares to my APO Digitar N°48 5.6/120mm which is stellar already!


It should be compared to the Apo Digitar M 26° 5,6/120 or the  Apo Digitar M 28° 5,6/80. Both are very good from 1:4 - 2:1.