200/4 Macro + Sony RX10 II High Speed Macro Video Setup??

[jhinkey]

Nikon Gear Gurus -

I've been using the very excellent 200/4 Macro for taking images (shadowgraphs actually) of a diesel fuel injector droplet pattern by using the open shutter + very short duration flash (5 microsec or so using over-driven LEDs and some high speed pulse circuits).  This has gone quite well.

I've also been using the Sony RX10 II for high speed video (960 fps) with the short duration LED light pulse strobed/synced to match the frame rate of the camera.

However, I have to break down my 200/4 and replace it with the RX10 to go from still image to high speed video mode - which is a major pain for my optical bench.

So, the question to anyone interested is how can I connect the RX10 to the rear of the 200/4 via an adapter and/or relay lenses to be able to keep the 200/4 in place and quickly remove my D800 and replace it with the RX10 + adapters?

Do I need a relay lens or just an F-mount to thread adapter then then connects to the RX10 (plus some extension tubes)?

Not looking for a full solution, but rather a place to start so I can get the equipment I need and give it a quick go and be close (and tweak from there as necessary).

This is sort of equivalent to trying to mount the RX10 to the back end of a refractor telescope w/o the eyepiece so one can take images or videos for image stacking.

A true high speed video camera would be the ideal solution (they are usually C-mount), but they cost a ton of $$ to rent for a couple of months.

Thanks!

John

[Erik Lund]

I have only done this once with help from Bjørn - I'm sure he will reply with a direct info on the parts

Since you have a zoom, you have a lot of possibilities for the relay lens in reverse position in front of your zoom, I would choose a good performing fast lens like 50mm 1.2
Then a set of K-rings and a focusing helical, for adjusting the length of optical path between the relay lens and the 200mm micro Nikkor.

[jhinkey]

I have only done this once with help from Bjørn - I'm sure he will reply with a direct info on the parts

Since you have a zoom, you have a lot of possibilities for the relay lens in reverse position in front of your zoom, I would choose a good performing fast lens like 50mm 1.2
Then a set of K-rings and a focusing helical, for adjusting the length of optical path between the relay lens and the 200mm micro Nikkor.

Thanks for the quick reply - I realized that I don't necessarily need a hard mount between the back end of the 200mm/4 and the RX10-II, especially since it has a rather flimsy extending zoom - BUT since I have an optical bench I can just lock down the RX-10 to where it needs to be relative to the 200mm and anything hanging off the back.  I can use a combination of cheap lens hoods to act as shades if needed (though I typically use this in a pretty dark room).

I await Bjorn's input if he has time.

- John

[Erik Lund]

Here are some images of how we did the relay for the big 6mm.

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,3494.msg51622.html#msg51622

The camera could slide on the rail while adjusting focus, first all lenses set to infinity, then lock it down, then focus master lens (6mm) IF.

[jhinkey]

Pinging the community again on this - any suggestions for a setup to mate the 200/4 to a RX10-II?

Thanks!

- John

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Not sure how you envision this should work?

Set the Sony to infinity focus and the longest focal length and use the camera to "look" into the 200/4 (also set to infinity). can you see anything at all?

[jhinkey]

Not sure how you envision this should work?

Set the Sony to infinity focus and the longest focal length and use the camera to "look" into the 200/4 (also set to infinity). can you see anything at all?

Thanks Bjorn -

I don't have the Sony in hand, so I was just looking for general guidance.  I suppose I can take one of my m43 cameras and mock this up to play around with what the spacing, etc. needs to be to get an image.  The main thing I wanted to know ahead of time is if I need a relay lens.

I know from using point and shoots on telescopes sometimes you just need a long extension tube to place the lens of the point and shoot far enough away from the focal point while sometimes you do need a relay lens or condenser lens, etc. to get the full field of view.

The Sony RX10-II version is a constant f/2.8 and I typically used the 200/4 stopped down to f/11 to achieve enough DOF, so light loss is a consideration since I will be using a custom-built high speed strobe that has limited light output.  The light output using the 200/4 at f/11 was enough with my D800 attached to the 200/4 for single images, and the strobe was bright enough just using the Sony by itself.
So FOV and light loss when trying to use the 200/4 + Sony are the issues I'm trying to figure out a bit before renting the Sony and buying the other things I will need to connect them up.

I'll start playing with it and let people know how it goes if you are interested in 1,000 FPS ~1:1 macro photography/videography.

Thanks!

John

[Bjørn Rørslett]

Experimentation with novel techniques is always entertaining ...

You could try capture the *real* image that is formed 46.5 mm beyond the mount flange of your 200 lens. Maybe the Sony can do this without a close-up lens?

[jhinkey]

Experimentation with novel techniques is always entertaining ...

You could try capture the *real* image that is formed 46.5 mm beyond the mount flange of your 200 lens. Maybe the Sony can do this without a close-up lens?

Thanks - I'll try that as I think I have some close-up lenses of the right diameter to fit the Sony directly.  The real solution to my problem is to use a true industrial high speed camera with a native F-mount, but these are (a) very very expensive to rent, and (b) have very small sensors so the FOV gets to be problematic unless I use one of the metabones-like adapters to increase the FOV and f/stop as much as I can.

It's fun to theoretically get paid for figuring this stuff out for a project, though to my customers they could care less about the optics behind it, they just like the pictures/movies