NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: David H. Hartman on December 07, 2020, 22:06:42
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I spent about 30 minutes the first try but I didn’t know the ritual myths and especially secret handshakes. Another 45 minutes the next day and finally magic! Then I tried to change the USB password and oops! Finally I got SnapBridge connected a second time.
SnapBridge is fun but what’s it really good for? Social media? Uploading photos for eBay? I think it’s transferring GPS location data to my camera but I’ve always been in the same location so I'm not sure. My camera is a Nikon D850.
What options are members finding for serious preview of full resolution JPG(s) on a laptop or desktop computer with low latency? Which option: USB or WiFi? What is available in standalone Windows and MAC programs?
What options are available for serious remote camera control? Especially important is pre-focus in live view with low latency shutter release. Having the camera focus in live view before releasing the shutter is not useful for many applications.
Thank you!
Dave Hartman
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I only use Snapbridge to feed GPS data to my Z50. All other functionality is turned off.
Why one would want to participate in the flooding of "social" media with yet more jpgs straight off camera I fail to comprehend.
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The failure on behalf of ILCs to allow users quick ways to send/share images is a massive one. I've had many family members come to me asking for camera recommendations, and I just tell them to upgrade their phone. I wish I could point them to something like a Z50, but know they would hate it for this one crucial aspect it lacks. I often find myself using a phone instead of my Nikon because it is simply superior most of the time. My "real" camera has become a niche tool. I personally am hoping future Zs correct this, and I can begin relying on my Nikon for all of my picture taking needs.
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I only use Snapbridge to feed GPS data to my Z50. All other functionality is turned off.
Why one would want to participate in the flooding of "social" media with yet more jpgs straight off camera I fail to comprehend.
Well some love to post any and every photo they take. I don't know why either. For them SnapBridge should be great (or maybe not).
Sharing photos with friends and relatives is a reasonable thing to do if there is some restrain. In the past one might have a roll developed. 2x prints made and a few chosen and mailed to family.
I'm looking for something to preview photographs as full resolution JPG files. I'd be shooting NEF + JPG Fine. I'd like serious remote, hands off, camera control. SnapBridge is deficient in both.
Dave
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SnapBridge works OK with the D6; it gets more complicated with the D850.
My workflow in the field is camera -> SnapBridge -> Lightroom Mobile for editing -> broadcast through Lr Mobile to social media / press officer. This all in a matter of minutes. It has been a “life”saver in regard of confinement / separate groups, not always having access to press room because belonging to a different (COVID-19) “bubble”. Images are 1600x1000 px / 1 MB size, sufficient for internet publication. Classic editing for more traditional media (eg printed press) takes later in the day, through the normal way. But you like it or not, most news info flows now through Twitter, Insta and the like...
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SnapBridge works OK with the D6; it gets more complicated with the D850.... etc
This makes sense. I don't have a D6 to compare. Maybe I'm panning SnapBridge because it's not fulfilling my needs. If I still shot PR I might find it more useful.
I'm interested in Studio use.
Best,
Dave
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If I remember correctly, Ann uses Yongnuo wifi transmitter for the more professional tethering. Apparently that is discontinued now.
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Should I assume few if any here use USB or WiFi tethering other than some find SnapBridge useful despite its limitations?
Dave
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Should I assume few if any here use USB or WiFi tethering other than some find SnapBridge useful despite its limitations?
Dave
Dave, you would have to use Nikon's genuine Camera Control Pro2 for the tethering with the computer via usb. According to Nikon's website, D850 is compatible. So far as the wireless connection is concerned, I've only heard of Ann's solution.
Most of pro photographers I personally know uses Canon cameras for the tethering with iPad, Mac or PC via wifi without any additional hardware. They say that the efficient wireless tethering ability is one of the bigger reasons for them to opt for Canon. I know only one pro who tethers Nikon, and his D810 is connected to his Mac via usb.
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Should I assume few if any here use USB or WiFi tethering other than some find SnapBridge useful despite its limitations?
Dave
I’m favoring the Bluetooth low energy connection option, leaving the WiFi channel open on my smart device for communicating with the “outside” world. No additional gear needed like the over-expensive WT-x transmitters.
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More fun with SmartBridge: just now I had multiple failure to swtich from Bluetooth to WiFi. I pulled the battery out of my D850 and replaced it. Still no joy. >:(
Then I decided to try restarting my Moto G7, Android phone. Bluetooth pairing happened instantly and switching to WiFi to download photos succeeded on the first try. :)
...but I really want the camera to connect to a laptop not a phone.
Dave
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I’m favoring the Bluetooth low energy connection option, leaving the WiFi channel open on my smart device for communicating with the “outside” world. No additional gear needed like the over-expensive WT-x transmitters.
Point well taken regarding phone communicating with the outside world.
My D850 has built in WiFi but I don't pay for cellular data so I loose connection to the internet when the phone switches to WiFi to communicate with the D850.
Dave
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I spent about 30 minutes the first try but I didn’t know the ritual myths and especially secret handshakes. Another 45 minutes the next day and finally magic! Then I tried to change the USB password and oops! Finally I got SnapBridge connected a second time.
Yeah, Snapbridge can be tricky to connect sometimes. If there is a lot of radio interference e.g. when in the vicinity of my home wifi router, or in big public events with large numbers of cell phones around, it might not connect. But usually, when in absence of such disturbances its recent versions connect reasonably painlessly and then you can transfer images to the world without a computer.
I find the D6 version to work somewhat more fluidly (I assume it is similar with Z6, Z7 and other newer cameras) and it also allows wifi transfer to computer (using Nikon Wireless Transfer Utility) which is more reliable and "sticky" than using the built-in wifi to connect to a smartphone (with smart devices, Snapbridge is sticky when using bluetooth but the wifi connection is easily dropped which is a bit annoying). The technology started as really finicky and erratic but it is gradually improving and I think in 5 years many people might not remember that there ever was a problem using it. :D
SnapBridge is fun but what’s it really good for? Social media? Uploading photos for eBay? I think it’s transferring GPS location data to my camera but I’ve always been in the same location so I'm not sure. My camera is a Nikon D850.
It does transmit GPS location data from the phone once the bluetooth connection is turned on. I use Snapbridge to transfer small jpgs to my friends when photographing if I have an interesting image that I'm excited to share, I'll use it.
What options are members finding for serious preview of full resolution JPG(s) on a laptop or desktop computer with low latency? Which option: USB or WiFi? What is available in standalone Windows and MAC programs?
I have connect to camera or dslrdashboard (same app, different names) which can be used to use a laptop or desktop (as well as mobile devices) to transfer files. However, whether the latency is low is debatable. You may need to use more basic JPG settings to get fast transfer of images wirelessly than you're used to when using USB cable or memory card reader.
On the D6 (I believe also Z6, Z7 etc.), also the camera itself can transfer images to laptop or desktop (using the WTU software that Nikon makes downloadable for free). This is really fast for basic jpgs but a bit slower for fine quality jpgs or raws. The JPG quality setting makes a huge difference to transfer times.
If you need high speed transfer of large fine quality jpgs then you may want to use a USB cable (or ethernet cable in the case of D6) to do it. This is much faster than the built-in wireless capabilities but I personally hate tethering with a cable (for safety reasons).
What options are available for serious remote camera control? Especially important is pre-focus in live view with low latency shutter release. Having the camera focus in live view before releasing the shutter is not useful for many applications.
I have three options for that: the connect to camera / dslrdashboard application, Nikon's own Camera Control Pro 2, and Manfrotto Digital Director (which is like an iPad adapter using USB cord and a mount). However, I rarely use them.
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Dave, you would have to use Nikon's genuine Camera Control Pro2 for the tethering with the computer via usb.
It depends on what features you want for tethering. I use Lightroom to tether in the studio with USB cable and it works perfectly fine with D850 or even D3X when I just want the images to display in the software rather than control the camera. Some users say Capture One is the better software for tethered workflow but I am used to Lightroom.
However, if you need live view to control the camera then Camera Control Pro 2 does provide that capability (as well as some third-party applications).
According to Nikon's website, D850 is compatible. So far as the wireless connection is concerned, I've only heard of Ann's solution.
Nikon provides wifi transfer of images to laptop or desktop with newer cameras but not D850, and even in newer cameras the built-in wifi supports transfer but not control from laptop/desktop, if I recall correctly. Both transfer of images and control of the camera is possible with USB cable or WT-7 wifi accessory (WT-6 for D5/D6) using Camera Control Pro 2. Via third party app (dslrdashboard / connect to camera) control and transfer are possible also using built-in wifi.
Most of pro photographers I personally know uses Canon cameras for the tethering with iPad, Mac or PC via wifi without any additional hardware. They say that the efficient wireless tethering ability is one of the bigger reasons for them to opt for Canon. I know only one pro who tethers Nikon, and his D810 is connected to his Mac via usb.
It's possible to do this with Nikon cameras using third-party software or in newer camera models using Nikon software without additional hardware. However, the built-in wifi in older Snapbridge-compatible cameras was only opened to third-party software in 2019, so there was a 3-year period where some Nikon cameras could not do this with the built-in wifi as it was locked behind the Nikon app and initial bluetooth connection. This was a fiasco obviously and annoyed a lot of people.
However, most studio photographers that I know about still use a cable to do tethering because the connection is faster than wireless. I personally dislike the cable but appreciate the speed when using one. Although the D6 can do the transfer of images to a laptop or desktop via built-in wifi, the speed of transfer is a bit on the slow side for RAW files and I haven't convinced myself to move in this direction. The WT-6 is also a bit too expensive for this purpose for me although it would allow fast transfer or RAW files. If I were convinced that I am not clumsy and will never trip on the cable nor with any of my subjects, then I might be happier using the cabled connection. But I'm not convinced.
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Ilkka,
Thank you! Great information.
I have installed DigiCamControl and tethered via USB cable and my D850 was recognized immediately. I'm now exploring DigiCamControl.
Dave
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Ilkka,
Can DigiCamControl be set to save new NEF and or JPG files to both the DigiCamControl session folders and the camera's memory cards at the same time or is this a one or the other situation? I seem to remember saving to both locations is a limitation of the Nikon camera and not the software.
Can DigiCamControl rename files during download? I currently have Nikon Transfer 2 set to add the suffix "D850_" to NEF(s) as they are downloaded, e.g. DSC_0002.nef becomes D850_DSC_0002.nef.
I have had no luck searching online and the search feature for the DigiCamControl online manual plays dead. I'm trying to learn on my own but my normal search resources aren't working for me.
Dave
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I've not yet found a way to save images back to the camera in Digicam Control.
There are various options for naming files, but I don't know if you can do anything you want. There's a window on the right headed "session," and the settings menu (gear icon) gives various options for the file name template, as well as one to use the camera's original name. That menu also includes options for where files are saved, including backups, but you can't back up directly to the camera as far as I can see.
Windows sees a connected camera as a device other than a drive. In the backup menu for Digicam Control, you can find the camera, and the files on the card, but when you assign that as a backup, it says the device is busy and it won't allow it. You can, however, designate a camera memory card in a card reader or slot as the backup location, and if you put the card in the camera without modifying the images it can read them.
I find Digicam control works pretty well with the D7100, though I haven't done much with it and haven't explored all its settings. The documentation is lousy, though, and if you get the on line instructions, they appear to be hosted by "manuals online," which tries to sneak other software in if you're not careful. That's a caveat if you download the program itself too. Don't accidentally get the Winzip drivers or some such junk.
e.t.a. I also tried the program "entangle," which does tethered shooting in Linux. It also does not seem to have an option for saving the image on the camera, at least not on a Nikon.
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Thank's Matthew! I'll have another session with DigiCamControl tomorrow.
Dave
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What options are members finding for serious preview of full resolution JPG(s) on a laptop or desktop computer with low latency?
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but (when it works) I find Snapbridge most useful as a bigger version of Liveview, using my tablet.
Great for macros
Really useful when I needed to take some videos for a yoga teacher and their class
But sadly, too unreliable with my D500.
It's possible they've tweaked the software & firmware in more recent camera bodies like the Z series....
More fun with SmartBridge: just now I had multiple failure to swtich from Bluetooth to WiFi. I pulled the battery out of my D850 and replaced it. Still no joy. >:(
For me, Digicam control seemed promising and much more fully featured....
....but the underlying issue of achieving, then maintaining a wireless connect between device and my D500 remained. Without this, even Digicam can't help.
It works with a USB lead, but I've not got round to getting a cable long enough to make it usable in real world situations.
I posted in another thread someone else's findings that changing timeouts can make a big difference.
I belive Nikon defaults to fairly short timeouts for external comms that can then cause the connection to be dropped. You see this where you're able to take a few pictures initially...then lose the connection :(
They probably wanted to minimise impact on battery life
If you're still having issues, Google this - you can always change the timeouts at the start and end of the sessions when you want remote connection.
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Oh and please continue to post your results and any ideas that prove reliable David (and others)
I'd love to know.
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Something I tried along time ago might give me close to what I want...
1) Setup an external HDMI display which will replace or parallel the image and data displayed on camera's LDC using a long HDMI cable.
2) On camera controls will be used to set the camera.
3) Hands off shutter release with a radio remote release (in my case Phottix Strato II flash trigger, excellent for my purpose).
Now the clunky part...
4) Use Nikon Transfer 2 to move NEF and or JPG files to a computer either by USB cable or tennis shoe network.
Things to research...
Replace the HDMI cable with a BlueTooth connection to an external display or computer.
Download image files from the cameras memory cards (after the fact, not in real time) by WiFi.
I would think the wireless replication of 1 and 4 is possible if there is software available to accomplish this.
DigiCamControl messes with my file naming and storage system. The (D850 Custom Settings Menu, d7) File Number Sequence is not disturbed for images saved to internal memory which is good but DigiCamControl uses its own parallel numbering system which is a problem for me.
Dave
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I first tried snapbridge a few years ago on the KeyMission 360. (Most likely helped the camera to fail.) There is really a missed opportunity that there is not a sophisticated app that works via USB or Bluetooth. Remember, Apple makes their products Not to be compatible with anything. ( I do use an older, apple phone.)
On the other hand, for me, photography is an escape from all the online nonsense.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Back to SnapBridge...
I only use Snapbridge to feed GPS data to my Z50. All other functionality is turned off.
I will likely adopt this use of SnapBridge.
My workflow in the field is camera -> SnapBridge -> Lightroom Mobile for editing -> broadcast through Lr Mobile to social media / press officer. This all in a matter of minutes. ...
There is utility in MFloyd's use of SnapBridge that I might find useful occasionally. I'll keep it in mind.
Dave
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When SnapBridge pairs with my D850 using BlueTooth to down load photos SnapBridge must subsequently switch to WiFi. If switching to WiFi fails repeatedly fails (for no apparent reason) rebooting the phone may correct the problem. If this doesn't work perhaps uninstalling SnapBridge and reinstalling SnapBridge may correct the problem. Reinstalling SnapBridge just worked for me. Nikon needs to do better. :(
Dave
The fool quotes himself...
There is utility in MFloyd's use of SnapBridge that I might find useful occasionally. I'll keep it in mind.
The use I may have for downloading photos to the phone is to provide 2MB JPG files for a friend to use for listing on eBay and other online selling platforms, these photos can then easily be emailed to my friend. I doubt that I will have any personal use for SnapBridge aside from passing GPS data to my D850.
Thank you everyone for your kind assistance!
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When SnapBridge pairs with my D850 using BlueTooth to down load photos SnapBridge must subsequently switch to WiFi. If switching to WiFi fails repeatedly fails (for no apparent reason) rebooting the phone may correct the problem. If this doesn't work perhaps uninstalling SnapBridge and reinstalling SnapBridge may correct the problem. Reinstalling SnapBridge just worked for me. Nikon needs to do better. :(
Snapbridge can send 2 MP photos to the phone using bluetooth only, I believe. So you only need wifi with Snapbridge if you want (1) faster transfers, (2) larger files, or (3) camera control capabilities. But the kind of transfer selected files in 2 MP size in the background works without switching to wifi mode.
Snapbridge does drop the wifi connection to mobile phone quite quickly after not being used. This is annoying.
D6 wifi connection to laptop or desktop computer does seem reliable, it doesn't drop the connection and it's fast to reconnect if you turn something off and back on (it remembers the computers it's been connected to in the past and you can pick from the list). However, this is with newer hardware.
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I can't find a way in SnapBridge 2.7.1 to download 2MP images [from my D850] using Bluetooth only. All I see is when I press Download pictures is the, "Enable camera Wi-Fi" (OK/Cancel) message and the same for Remote photography.
I've had no luck switching to WiFi for about 24 hours. SnapBridge fails to connect and gives the lame, "The connection to the camera has failed. Try again after reading the online help information on how the problem can be addressed." This to me is a totally deficient error message giving no idea what the problem is. SnapBridge might as well say, "Go search the Web and Good Luck."
Dave
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Which camera ?
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Which camera ?
Nikon D850. I edited my post above to indicate my camera model.
Dave
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Nikon D850. I edited my post above to indicate my camera model.
Dave
Ok Dave, I have a look at it. :)
I’m shooting in RAW. So, when I want to transfer a NEF D850 image, I have first to make a JPEG image (within the camera body) before the D850 will consider the image to queue up for transfer. With the D6, no need, the D6 produces automatically a JPEG file for transfer.
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Maybe I'll try SnapBridge and my D850 for file transfer after SnapBridge (currently v2.7.1) gets an major update but for now I'm finding SnapBridge unreliable for file transfer and control with my D850 and it doesn't do what I want in several ways anyway. SnapBridge does reliably pass my phone's GPS data to my D850 so that's good. The phone is a Moto G7 running Android 10. My D850 is running the latest firmware. I do see a use for downloading 2MP JPG(s) and emailing them to a friend for eBay listings so I would like to achieve 2MP file transfer to my phone.
I've found a utility, AirNEF by name which is reliable and will consistently download NEF(s), JPG(s) and MOV(s) to a 64GB Samsung Fit, USB 3.1 button drive. I've copied the necessary files and folders to the Samsung Fit so that Nikon Transfer 2 sees it as a camera memory card and renames and copies files to this laptop's SSD. The Samsung Fit is tiny and stays permanently attached to this laptop. I can now transfer files to my laptop without removing a memory card from my D850 or attaching a USB cable.
To accomplish a connection between my D850 and Laptop I have to manually start Wi-Fi on my D850 (expected) and then using the Windows 10 fly-out in the lower right task bar I connect this laptop to the D850. There is supposed to be a way to get Windows 10 to switch to the D850's Wi-Fi server from my Wi-Fi router automatically when the D850 is available but I haven't achieved this so far. For now it's semi-automatic and reliable.
I have tried the command prompt method of ranking Windows 10 Wi-Fi sources to connect to the D850 first, Wi-Fi router 5G second and then basic Wi-Fi (2.4 band) but without success. I was following the instruction here...
How to change Wi-Fi network connections priority order on Windows 10 (https://www.windowscentral.com/how-change-wi-fi-network-connections-priority-order-windows-10)
This should be a lot easier. I survived Windows NT (Neanderthal Technology) v4.0 (SP-3 to 6) with the help of a Bible sized administrator's guide from Microsoft. I'm getting lazy now. I'm used to recent Windows and MAC OS(s) and their relative ease and automation.
Dave
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A friend of mine who is pro photographer just bought the latest iPad Air, and he found that he could transfer the NEF files very quickly from his Z6 connected with iPad Air via USB-C cable. You just have to connect the Air and Z6 and boot "Photo" app.
You cannot control Z6 from iPad Air, but at least you can transfer the NEF files quickly.
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i have increasingly been using my iPad... I use a USB-C card reader, have not tried the direct cable. I import the images directly into Lightroom.
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I haven't been able to get SnapBridge to do more than transfer GPS data to my D850 for about a week. GPS is all I really need though it bothers me that I can't set this right even if I don't need JPG file transfer to my phone.
AirNEF has worked well though the D850's Wi-Fi annoyingly drop connection to this laptop instantly on most any error. This laptop reconnects to its normal Wi-Fi router easily. I find AirNEF an easy way to transfer a few NEF files without messing with using a card reader. It takes about 21 to 23 seconds per D850 NEF so AirNEF is limited by the slow speed of the D850's Wi-Fi. l prefer a card reader for any volume of NEF(s).
The error I've had using AirNEF seem to be caused by a microwave oven. The errors with SnapBridge are persistent and probably a setting on my Android phone. I've been through Nikon's online trouble shooting list too many times. I am glad to get GPS location data transfer.
Dave
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I haven't been able to get SnapBridge to do more than transfer GPS data to my D850 for about a week. GPS is all I really need though it bothers me that I can't set this right even if I don't need JPG file transfer to my phone.
Can you describe how you are trying to use Snapbridge, what exactly do you do that doesn't work?
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Can you describe how you are trying to use Snapbridge, what exactly do you do that doesn't work?
In the camera tab of the SnapBridge screen there are three options: Auto link (on), Download pictures and Remote photography. The Download pictures and Remote photography options require "Enable camera Wi-Fi." With both options pressing OK starts "Connecting to camera..." and this always fails for the last week with the error message, "The connection to the camera has failed. Try again after reading..." For a time SnapBridge made the leap to Wi-Fi but now it doesn't. >:(
Dave
If Auto link isn't "On" this is easily corrected by turning Bluetooth on in the camera's Setup menu or perhaps Bluetooth is off on the phone which is also easy to correct by touching the Bluetooth symbol on the SnapBridge screen.
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For those with a need to transfer JPG(s) to a Phone then use the phone to send them on with email or Text...
Since I'm not having much luck with transferring JPG(s) to my phone with SnapBridge I decided to pull out something I haven't used much. A UNI brand USB-C to USB-A "On The Go" pigtail. I plug a tiny SanDisk USB SDXC card reader in the on the go adapter.
An Android file explorer named CX File Exporter is working and not too flaky. It has a clean interface. Android asks and then marks the SDXC card recording permissions or whatever. From CX I can copy files to the phone or better share them right off the SDXC card via email and probably MSM text.
My recent favorite file explorer Astro File Explorer doesn't always recognize the SDXC card via the on the go and USB card reader. I never successfully initialized the SDXC card from Astro so Astro falls away.
Another file explorer, File Manager + has a nice interface but it loaded the SDXC card with junk folders, pictures, music, ringtones, etc.
So CX File Explorer is working fine to share JPG(s) which I'll need to send photos to my friend for her eBay listings.
Dave
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In the camera tab of the SnapBridge screen there are three options: Auto link (on), Download pictures and Remote photography. The Download pictures and Remote photography options require "Enable camera Wi-Fi." With both options pressing OK starts "Connecting to camera..." and this always fails for the last week with the error message, "The connection to the camera has failed. Try again after reading..." For a time SnapBridge made the leap to Wi-Fi but now it doesn't. >:(
On the phone settings side, does it show that the wifi is connected to the D850? On my iPhone, I have to initiate wifi connection from the camera, then in the phone settings, and finally the link is established and Snapbridge notices it.
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Ilkka,
That would be easy. Unfortunately with Android you have to have establish a Bluetooth connection between SnapBridge and the camera first, then SnapBridge tells the camera to switch to Wi-Fi. I tried connecting by turning on Wi-Fi on the camera first and then connecting the phone to the camera but then back in SnapBridge Download pictures and Remote photography are grayed out. If I press the Bluetooth button SnapBridge says the camera is out of range when only 1m (3') way.
Dave
Incidentally AirNEF connects to this laptop as described for the iPhone which is why it is relatively easy to par the D850 with this laptop. The connection is sometimes fiddly because Windows 10 puts the USB flash drive to sleep against my best efforts so I have to wake it up before establishing a connection. In the end I always succeed.
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Are you using the latest firmware in the camera and the latest version of Snapbridge? Bluetooth should not be needed to make a wifi connection any more. Unfortunately, I don't have an Android phone to test.
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The D850 is up to date with C 1.2 and LD 2.018 firmware. SnapBridge is version 2.7.1.
Dave
I just update my Moto G7 Android phone and still the jump from BlueTooth to Wi-Fi fails. >:(
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To start the wifi connection between D850 and Snapbridge on my iPhone, I start the app (and make sure the right camera is selected and it is in wifi mode), turn on Wifi on the camera, and then the camera shows up on the list of wifi networks I can connect to, and I select it and then the app hopefully activates those features. I don't try to jump from bluetooth to wifi. That used to be necessary but not since about 1.5 years ago. I can try if that is still possible later.
You could try uninstalling the Snapbridge app, reinstalling it and seeing if it helps get back to where you were before.
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I tried uninstalling and reinstalling SnapBridge. The D850 and SnapBridge are repaired again. The pair won't make the transfer from Bluetooth to Wi-Fi. It makes no sense to me to connect the D850 and Android this way.
AirNEF connects the laptop and D850 much as the D850 to iPhone. It takes a series of clicks but the laptop usually connects quickly and downloading JPG(s) quite fast.
I guess I'll try the online trouble shooting guide then shoot my phone. :D :D :D
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Ilkka, it seems you've got a stable configuration there that works consistently each time you need it.
It was the lack of consistent behaviour that forced me to abandon Snapbridge,
A friend of mine who is pro photographer just bought the latest iPad Air, and he found that he could transfer the NEF files very quickly from his Z6 connected with iPad Air via USB-C cable. .
Hi Akira, I must say that even with hardware a few years older than the Z line (D500) I never had a problem getting a connection with my Windows laptop using a USB cable. That worked fine for both file transfers (not a priority for me) and to a degree, for remote control using the Digi Cam program.
Sadly because of the need to use Nikons proprietary USB connector, the limited cable length again restricted its use.
Edit - I now realise this was wrong
But what I really wanted was a reliable wireless connection - ideally with my tablet, but at a pinch the laptop.
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Hi Akira, I must say that even with hardware a few years older than the Z line (D500) I never had a problem getting a connection with my Windows laptop using a USB cable. That worked fine for both file transfers (not a priority for me) and to a degree, for remote control using the Digi Cam program.
Sadly because of the need to use Nikons proprietary USB connector, the limited cable length again restricted its use.
But what I really wanted was a reliable wireless connection - ideally with my tablet, but at a pinch the laptop.
Colin, I wasn't even aware of that program, as I hadn't been in need of tethering. But that sounds handy, as the cameras now have more common USB connectors.
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Sadly because of the need to use Nikons proprietary USB connector, the limited cable length again restricted its use.
The USB cable my D850 accepts is a USB-3 Micro-B 10 pin. The D850 will also accept a USB-2 Micro-B 5 pin in the larger side. USB-3 Micro-B 10 pin is a standard type but probably only gets moderately wide use as USB-3 Type C is clearly dominant. I have a Lexar multi card reader that accepts the Micro-B 10 pin and a friend has a 1TB external HD that does the same. The USB-3 Micro-B 10 pin has the advantage of saying plugged in better than other types.
I believe the D500 also accepts the standard USB-3 Micro-B 10 pin or USB-2 Micro-B 5 pin cable. For greater distance a high quality 3m (9.8') cable can be used. Longer extention is possible but there are length restrictions to consider. These are available with various connection types at each end.
But what I really wanted was a reliable wireless connection - ideally with my tablet, but at a pinch the laptop.
I'm quite sure the D500 and D850 are slow transferring large NEF files due to the limitations of the Wi-Fi hardware used in the camera.
Dave
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As long as the computer end of the camera's USB cable is standard, you ought to be able to find a standard USB extension cable to run from it to the computer. No guarantee that it won't slow things down, but it should work mechanically.
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As long as the computer end of the camera's USB cable is standard, you ought to be able to find a standard USB extension cable to run from it to the computer. No guarantee that it won't slow things down, but it should work mechanically.
I haven't check any of this lately but I believe both the length and quality of the cable come in to play. My guess is a high quality 3m extension cable rated for USB-3 will not slow the connection.
Dave
Here are photo of various standard USB cable types...
https://www.mycablemart.com/images/usb_connectors_20_30.jpg (https://www.mycablemart.com/images/usb_connectors_20_30.jpg)
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I'm not associated with TetherTools.com and I'm not even a satisfied customer but they appear to me to be a reliable source...
https://tethertools.com/product-category/cables-adapters/ (https://tethertools.com/product-category/cables-adapters/)
...I'm quite sure one can gather good information from this site. I'm gone to see what I can learn.
Dave
It appears that a 4.6m (15') cable is the official USB-3 standard assuming a quality USB-3 rated cable.
Tether Tools wants more of your money, not a surprise...
https://tethertools.com/product/tetherboost-pro-core-controller/ (https://tethertools.com/product/tetherboost-pro-core-controller/)
I think what I'd prefer is a high quality USB-A to USB-A, Male to Female USB-3 extension cable. I'd use this cable with the cable Nikon included with my camera. I'd secure the short cable to my camera or tripod with something to keep it from being jerked out. If I trip on the cable I'd prefer the extension and Nikon included cable separate and spare the camera port and not topple a tripod. I think a ports saver pigtail 0.15m (6") at the laptop would save the laptop from damage. If a simple non-active port saver pigtail doesn't work due to three cables and two connection the TetherBoost Pro USB 3.0 Core Controller would probably do the trick.
Frankly cables are a pain but maybe not that bad in studio if the camera and laptop can be protected. I'd much prefer Wi-Fi for the safety of no cables.
Here is one more link to TetherTools.com...
https://tethertools.com/blog/what-is-tethered-photography/ (https://tethertools.com/blog/what-is-tethered-photography/)
Money, honey.
Money, honey.
Money, honey, if you want to get along with me.
As sung by Elvis Presley
or if you prefer...
The best things in life are free
But you can keep them for the birds and bees
Now give me money, (That's what I want)
That's what I want
As sung by John Lennon
:)
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Ilkka, it seems you've got a stable configuration there that works consistently each time you need it.
I wouldn't quite say that. If I am in a crowd of people it may not work (presumably due to the mobile phones causing interference). Sometimes a bit of playing around is needed to establish the connection, but lately it's been easier and more reliable, and I've seen fewer instances of the "demo effect". However, if I don't do anything for a bit while the wifi connection is on, it usually drops the wifi connection between camera and phone in a matter of tens of seconds. This is very annoying. In practice it does allow me to transfer files from camera to phone and usually the connecting business is not fussy as long as I don't idle. So it gets the job done but still Nikon has work to do to make it faster and more reliable.
In the D6, the built-in wifi also supports connecting to laptop or desktop and this works much better, it doesn't drop the wifi connection and it remembers the list of computers which I've previously paired with, and reconnecting after camera or computer has been off is a breeze. This is how it should be also between camera and mobile phone.
Sadly because of the need to use Nikons proprietary USB connector, the limited cable length again restricted its use.
The cable is short indeed, I tested using the camera as video camera for zoom conference and it does work but the cable is as you say, very limiting. I have previously used extension cables but that was with USB 2, and those cables that I have did not maintain USB 3. I should probably look into those Tethertools products myself.
But what I really wanted was a reliable wireless connection - ideally with my tablet, but at a pinch the laptop.
Yeah, looking at how frequent poorly functioning connectivity is in video conferenecs, it seems like a very mainstream problem. We commonly turn off the video in order to get a clearer audio feed to be able to continue discussion.
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The USB cable my D850 accepts is a USB-3 Micro-B 10 pin.
Doh!
Stupidly, because the D500 came with an unusual proprietary-looking USB cable, I assumed that's all that would work.
I never looked closely to see it was a USB-B plus extra bit on the side (see below).
That extra part of the socket does seem to have terminals in it, so guess it's for other uses....?
Meanwhile thanks, I would still prefer not to work tethered, but this does indeed offer a bit more flexibility
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...if I don't do anything for a bit while the wifi connection is on, it usually drops the wifi connection between camera and phone in a matter of tens of seconds. This is very annoying.
This is discussed earlier in this thread so you may already be aware.
Nikon's default for some of the key settings in wireless comms is a fairly short timeout.
You can extend these and it reduces these disconnections, though eventually at the expense of some battery life. Let me know if you'd like a link on this
If you're working indoors, have spare batteries or charger handy this shouldn't be an issue
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This is discussed earlier in this thread so you may already be aware.
Nikon's default for some of the key settings in wireless comms is a fairly short timeout.
You can extend these and it reduces these disconnections, though eventually at the expense of some battery life. Let me know if you'd like a link on this
If you're working indoors, have spare batteries or charger handy this shouldn't be an issue
Oh, if you have information about how to increase the timeout I would really appreciate it. I don't mind some reduction of battery life.
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Doh!
Stupidly, because the D500 came with an unusual proprietary-looking USB cable, I assumed that's all that would work.
I never looked closely to see it was a USB-B plus extra bit on the side (see below).
That extra part of the socket does seem to have terminals in it, so guess it's for other uses....?
Meanwhile thanks, I would still prefer not to work tethered, but this does indeed offer a bit more flexibility
That is a generic USB microB socket for USB3.0/3.1. Not Nikon's proprietary one.
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That is a generic USB microB socket for USB3.0/3.1. Not Nikon's proprietary one.
I confirm.
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It is a standard USB 3-micrro-B cable similar to the one used for a number of hard drives. The only thing special about it is that the plastic casing probably is designed to exactly fit the plastic piece that came with it (with the D500) that clips into the space around the connector that otherwise is closed by the rubber flap, stabilizes connection against bending etc, and provides a rudimentary dust cover.
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The D850 came with an "HDMI/USB Cable Clip" and the D800 came with a "USB Cable Clip." I've never used either but the user manuals show these clips being used with the Nikon supplied USB-3 cable. Other supplier's USB cables lack the ring or collar found on the Nikon original USB cable.
The clip that came with the D850 looks totally impractical as the cables cross in front of the lower control buttons on the left, rear of the camera. A Jerk Stopper would probably be a better solution.
Dave
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The D850 came with an "HDMI/USB Cable Clip" and the D800 came with a "USB Cable Clip." I've never used either but the user manuals show these clips being used with the Nikon supplied USB-3 cable. Other supplier's USB cables lack the ring or collar found on the Nikon original USB cable.
The clip that came with the D850 looks totally impractical as the cables cross in front of the lower control buttons on the left, rear of the camera. A Jerk Stopper would probably be a better solution.
I don't know, the cable clip doesn't bother me (yes, it gets a bit on the way of using some buttons but does not prevent their use or normal shooting). I don't have a Tethertools cable or their solution to the problem but will look into it. Because my cameras have mini-USB, micro B, and USB-C connectors it would be somewhat annoying to get separate longer cables for each one. I have used the supplied cord and an extension cord that works with USB 2.0 speeds for tethering; I just haven't felt the delay to be enough of an issue to resolve the issue of how to get USB-3 speeds. But now I am testing it a bit. So far I can get about 1 D850 NEF in about 2 seconds in tethered shooting using only the Nikon cable. This is okay but doesn't break the maximum speed possible with USB 2.0.
In some earlier Nikons the cable clip doesn't require twisting the cable to run over the buttons and display. I wonder why Nikon went with this design.
I tested the Nikon cable with an USB 2.0 extension cable and it did not affect the transfer time when tethering in a noticeable way. I then tested the native cable with nikon transfer and that was about 4 times as fast as when tethering. Nikon Transfer didn't work at all when I included the 2.0 extension cord. I recall seeing a complaining message about the extension cord when setting up zoom and Nikon webcam utility, so I removed the extension cord and came to the conclusion that I need either a better extension cable or a longer standard one for USB tethered streaming.
From this I gather that tethering using Camera Control Pro 2, Lightroom or Smart Shooter 4 doesn't necessarily take advantage of USB 3 speeds, but Nikon Transfer does. On my desktop computer the Nikon Transfer speeds were about 4 D850 NEF images per second while tetherered transfers with Camera Control Pro 2 remained at about 0.5 images per second, again reflecting USB 2.0 not 3.0 speeds.
I tested LR with Smart Shooter 4 plugin and the tethered transfers were quite slow, but I'll do more testing of that later. Using Smart Shooter 4 as standalone program was about as fast as Camera Control Pro 2. Both Camera Control Pro 2 and Smart Shooter 4 allow the files to be stored both on the memory card in the camera as well as the tethered computer's drive. LR without the plugin only stores the images on the computer.
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Both Camera Control Pro 2 and Smart Shooter 4 allow the files to be stored both on the memory card in the camera as well as the tethered computer's drive.
Thank you for this information. It's very important to me to have files stored on a memory card in the camera. I transfer file to my computer using Nikon Transfer 2 and it saves them in folders with my naming specs and renames my NEF files as it downloads them. Only saving to the computer is a deal breaker for me.
Dave
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I bought an USB 3.0 extension cable which increased the total length to 4.5m. I compared transfer speeds with the Nikon cable alone and when combined with the 3m extension and they were the same.
I tested LR tethering with a longer sequence and timed it and got 24 D850 lossless 14bit raw images transferred in 21 seconds to my desktop. This is about 1 image per second and seems clearly faster than my laptop. For me, it is fast enough for practical use in the studio as images would appear as quickly as I can turn my head to look.
The extension cable is blue so that it is noticeable and perhaps less likely to be stepped on by accident. It doesn't seem necessary to have active extension although the recommended max length of USB 3.0 is said to be 3 m though I guess I will need more experience to see if there is any problem.
I noticed that there is a lot of conflict between my L-brackets and cables connecting to the left edge of the camera body. I can mount the (actual) Arca-Swiss L-bracket and put the camera in vertical orientation on my ball head but with most of my other L-brackets it is not possible to achieve vertical mounting without tilting the head to the side (which is no fun using ball heads). So if I want to do tripod-based verticals while tethering I need to use specific parts that work for this. Now I understand why some tripod users shoot all horizontals even when the subject is a face. ;) I am considering a tripod partly because I want to do some LED-lit portraits and my LED isn't that bright. Also a tripod would make it easier not to get keystoning when using a short lens for full-body images.
I guess it is quite likely I will take off the cord when doing verticals on tripod rather than deal with the hassle, although I would like to get all the images on the computer.
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Oh, if you have information about how to increase the timeout I would really appreciate it. I don't mind some reduction of battery life.
For Ilkka and anyone else interested, you can find a (long) thread on DPReview where a solution is proposed, then others comment (not necessary to follow the whole thread through!)
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4114865
Note: this thread focuses on the D500, so benefits or options may be different on other models
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For Ilkka and anyone else interested, you can find a (long) thread on DPReview where a solution is proposed, then others comment (not necessary to follow the whole thread through!)
Colin,
Thank you for posting the link to dpreview forum. I read it in full.
I've come to the conclusion that SnapBridge (using v 2.7.1) on a Moto G7, Android 10 phone (all up to date) is that SnapBridge is NOT intended for professional use. It's an iOS/Android app for use with lower end Nikon cameras for users who want to send moderate size JPG(s) photos to family and friends (or no one in particular :) ) using social media.
From reading the dpreview thread I understand that the Bluetooth to Wi-Fi method of communication is to use low camera battery drain Bluetooth and only switch to high battery drain Wi-Fi as briefly as possible. If one accepts SnapBridge as a convenience for SnapShooters then this is all quite reasonable. What is not reasonable is it's so damned complicated to get and keep SnapBridge running in this Bluetooth to Wi-Fi model (at least in my experience). I survived Window NT 4.0 SP3-6 and setup Windows 2000 Server with two clients running Windows 2000 pro so while I'm no tech genius I'm not helpless maintaining a Window or OS X computer.
SnapBridge and my D850 (both up to date) communicate to the extent that GPS location data is easily sent to my D850 if SnapBridge is running on my phone and Bluetooth is running on my D850. I think that is all I'm going to get from SnapBridge for now. This is enough that I can recommend SnapBridge to D850 owners who are satisfied with GPS data transfer and don't bother with image transfer.
Again thank you for the link!
Dave
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I bought an USB 3.0 extension cable which increased the total length to 4.5m. I compared transfer speeds with the Nikon cable alone and when combined with the 3m extension and they were the same.
Thank you for testing the USB 3 extension cable. I’m planing to try the same.
The extension cable is blue so that it is noticeable and perhaps less likely to be stepped on by accident. It doesn't seem necessary to have active extension….
Ilkka, it would be a great help if you would supply a link to the seller of this cable. I’ve only found black USB 3 extension cables and would much prefer something more visible. I really hope an active pigtail like the Tethered Tools unit is not necessary. Money for me is very tight.
I noticed that there is a lot of conflict between my L-brackets and cables connecting to the left edge of the camera body...
Ths RRS Modular L-Plate (shown below) might be the ticket for some as it's adjustable to give space under the camera for cables when vertical on a tripod. I’m more likely to buy the RRS Ultra light L-Plate as I don’t want the extra weight of the modular plate on the camera in general use.
Thank you!
Dave
Postscript: I uses Really Right Stuff Camera L-Plates, KES (Kirk Enterprise Solutions) brakets and Wimberley, Inc. Clamps and Plates. These are all Arca-Swiss type products and work flawlessly together. I’m not associated with any of these companies. I do recommend them base on my experience with these companies and their products.
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Colin,
Thank you for posting the link to dpreview forum. I read it in full.
I've come to the conclusion that SnapBridge (using v 2.7.1) on a Moto G7, Android 10 phone (all up to date) is that SnapBridge is NOT intended for professional use. It's an iOS/Android app for use with lower end Nikon cameras for users who want to send moderate size JPG(s) photos to family and friends (or no one in particular :) ) using social media.
From reading the dpreview thread I understand that the Bluetooth to Wi-Fi method of communication is to use low camera battery drain Bluetooth and only switch to high battery drain Wi-Fi as briefly as possible. If one accepts SnapBridge as a convenience for SnapShooters then this is all quite reasonable. What is not reasonable is it's so damned complicated to get and keep SnapBridge running in this Bluetooth to Wi-Fi model (at least in my experience). I survived Window NT 4.0 SP3-6 and setup Windows 2000 Server with two clients running Windows 2000 pro so while I'm no tech genius I'm not helpless maintaining a Window or OS X computer.
SnapBridge and my D850 (both up to date) communicate to the extent that GPS location data is easily sent to my D850 if SnapBridge is running on my phone and Bluetooth is running on my D850. I think that is all I'm going to get from SnapBridge for now. This is enough that I can recommend SnapBridge to D850 owners who are satisfied with GPS data transfer and don't bother with image transfer.
Again thank you for the link!
Dave
I repeat myself: I used it professionally in 2020 for about sixty days in missions abroad (D6, SnapBridge, Lr Mobile) / Bluetooth, because of virtually no access to Media Rooms (Covid-19 isolation bubbles). I reaffirm, it works, without a problem. With the D850, it’s another story.
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I repeat myself: I used it professionally in 2020 for about sixty days in missions abroad (D6, SnapBridge, Lr Mobile) / Bluetooth, because of virtually no access to Media Rooms (Covid-19 isolation bubbles). I reaffirm, it works, without a problem. With the D850, it’s another story.
If SnapBridge worked for you under difficult circumstances that's very good. Perhaps Nikon thinks a professional or anyone who wants professional product performance should buy their Nikon Camera Control Pro 2 product. That's my best guess. I'd be working for a friend so she can earn a little selling on eBay to pay copays for her health care. My friend has major paralysis, a T4 spinal cord injury. I do this without compensation.
Dave
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For Ilkka and anyone else interested, you can find a (long) thread on DPReview where a solution is proposed, then others comment (not necessary to follow the whole thread through!)
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4114865
Note: this thread focuses on the D500, so benefits or options may be different on other models
I don't have a camera standby timer timeout related problem. The wifi connection is formed reliably as long as there is no significant source of external radio interference (ie. being in the vicinity of 1000 mobile phones would be such interference and Snapbridge would probably not connect).
The sequence that works for me is this: I go to snapbridge, I select the correct camera and set it in wifi mode. Then I go to the camera and select establish wifi connections and go to settings/wifi in my iPhone and once D850 appears in the list, I click on it. I then wait a few seconds until the connection is formed. This typically takes more time than my standby timer on the camera is set to (10 s) but this doesn't cause a problem. However, the app must be set in Wifi mode before I start the sequence otherwise it won't work. Also if I click D850 in the Settings/Wifi and leave Settings to Snapbridge before the connection is formed, no luck: the connecting process is interrupted. I must stay in settings/wifi until the connection is established and only then go to Snapbridge. You could call it a secret handshake, I suppose, there are so many ways in which the user can do this wrong and it seems a lot of it is related to the mobile device not multitasking properly.
I mistakenly thought the dropping of the wifi connection is dependent on how long I am idle. This doesn't seem to be the case. As long as I don't leave the Snapbridge app screen, the connection is maintained. If the phone wants to access the internet in the meanwhile, it asks me if it is ok to connect using mobile broadband instead of the default wifi, and I say yes it is then it still retains the wifi connection to the camera. However, if I switch to another app then the wifi connection to camera is immediately lost. This seems to be my main problem: I want to go to the photos and send them and then I would like to continue transferring more images but the wifi
connection has to be re-established since I left the app screen.
So: for me it is not a timeout problem; I waited a long time with the Snapbridge screen open after transferring the previous file, and more files could be downloaded and remote photography activated as long as I did not for a second leave the Snapbridge screen.
When making the wifi connection from the D6 to a laptop or desktop, this was not an issue; the connection was not lost by using applications on the computer. This is how it should be in the mobile device as well. I want to multitask, I've been doing it for 30+ years and a connection should not be lost merely because I use other apps on my device.
Anyway, I am gaining a better understanding of what works and how it can be used successfully and what kind of user behavior leads to connection failure. This has been a good discussion. :)
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My Arca-Swiss L-bracket is modular and if I extend the vertical part far out it can give enough space for cables but I am a bit worried about using so much extension. The L-bracket is actually quite heavy but this is one of its advantages.
The USB-3.0 extension cable that I got is this (link to Finnish store):
https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/68633/qckdv/DeLOCK-3-m-USB-3-0-A-A-uros-naaras-jatkokaapeli-sininen?utm_source=productlink&utm_medium=orderemail&utm_campaign=order_gathered
I think you can probably find it in US online stores by googling. It is not the cheapest cable but itpassed my initial testing. I have contacted a reseller of Tethertools cables to discuss their products as well but for now I will continue with the extension cable I bought.
I still don't understand why you can't get Snapbridge wifi to work. I mean, knowing
the reputation of the app it shouldn't surprise me, but since we are using the same camera and app version the only difference should be the phone and operating system which are different. Also, I am not trying to switch to wifi from a bluetooth connection but have bluetooth off from the camera and the app set to wifi mode before establishing the connection.
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Getting SnapBridge to transfer JPG(s) from my D850 to my phone seems hopeless. I can use an "on the go" USB C to USB A adapter with a tiny USB 2 SDXC card reader so if I really need to get half sized JGP(s) from the D850 to my phone I can do it.
Transferring half size JPG(s) from the D850 with AirNEF is fast and not too fiddly. Transferring NEF(s) with AirNEF is possible but slow. The laptop I'm using has a built in SD card reader so transferring NEF(s) with the card reader isn't bad. Since I bought the D850 on a shoestring I don't have a CFExpress card yet. Once I do I'll have to either use a USB cable or carry a CFExpress card reader.
SnapBridge is quite easy to use to download GPS so I've got that. Maybe an upgrade to SnapBridge will fix the Bluetooth to Wi-Fi transition failure.
Thanks for all the help!
Dave
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The D6 has inherited (some parts) of the Z interface, which make inter alia exchanges more stable and easy. Indeed, as already mentioned, the D850 is another story. Maybe a software upgrade could fix this ?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50098423292_760895b185_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jk2vQQ)
Nikon D6 (https://flic.kr/p/2jk2vQQ)
D6 « Z-like » interface. 4th column: upper row: Bluetooth interface; lower row: WiFi interface. Display is programmable. You also notice that the D6 has a GPS connection and a Bluetooth one.
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I had similar problems -reconnecting WIFI with snap bridge- with my I-pads.
The solution was rather easy, and it might be a security feature.
Establishing a WIFI connection to a device (camera), there is a profile generated, which the I-pad remembers and tries to use on a reconnection.
This profile might get “outdated” , when you restart the device (camera).
To get a connection, you just have to delete the profile for that device on the I-pad (on the I-pad, that is done in the WIFI-part of the settings).
Something similar might be the case with Android (and Windows 10 also stores connection profiles)?
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Something similar might be the case with Android (and Windows 10 also stores connection profiles)?
I've tried deleting the camera from SnapBridge. I'll have to try that with Android although I may have. Windows saves Profiles and I use one for my normal Wi-Fi router and one for the D850. I turn off Wi-Fi with the Windows 10 flyout on the task bar then turn it on. Sometimes it automatically connects to the D850. That only works for AirNEF.
Dave