NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 08, 2020, 09:10:15

Title: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 08, 2020, 09:10:15
Well, that cost me showing a picture of that Nikon 2.8/6mm lens here WITH copyright mentioned, but got sued by the real owner of that for copyright violation.
Lesson learnt I guess...
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 09, 2020, 11:36:09
sorry to hear this
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Akira on August 09, 2020, 12:44:51
Well, that cost me showing a picture of that Nikon 2.8/6mm lens here WITH copyright mentioned, but got sued by the real owner of that for copyright violation.
Lesson learnt I guess...

Oh, no.  Sorry about that, Klaus...
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Erik Lund on August 09, 2020, 13:28:50
Ups, not nice - Sorry to hear!
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: MEPER on August 09, 2020, 23:57:07
It seems that linking to a picture on the internet should be "safe" (I am allowed to link to this document):
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/481194/c-notice-201401.pdf
It also seems that pictures are by default "Copyright". It is not necessary to write anything about it......as I read it.....(read it very fast so may have missed something).

…..but what was the reason for the owner of the picture to make that kind of "punishment"?
He could just have requested the picture to be removed in first place. The lens was displayed on a Nikon friendly site so what harm did it do to his image? 
It was "non commercial" use.
Are the fees for violating a Copyright standardized so EUR 300 is the prize (lens is expensive…..so maybe he needs some money)?
Probably it could be much more expensive to find out.....
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 10, 2020, 06:58:25
Well, that cost me showing a picture of that Nikon 2.8/6mm lens here WITH copyright mentioned, but got sued by the real owner of that for copyright violation.
Lesson learnt I guess...

I did in fact send bills to people using my work without asking or paying for it
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: PeterN on August 10, 2020, 12:16:17
Sorry to hear that, Klaus. I think it is a bit shortsighted to immediately sue someone or ask for money. IMHO the more people share the photographer's work (with reference)the better known the photographer becomes. 

The situation becomes different when someone commercially exploits a photo or pretends he/she took the photo. That would be a reason to sue or send a bill. Fortunately that has never happened to me.

Just my 2 cents..
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Pistnbroke on August 13, 2020, 12:13:19
I dont get this .......
If you make a mark on a  sheet of paper its copyright,,but its also of no value.
Same applies to a photo of a common object (the lens) unless there was something special about the photo . Extra effort put in etc . The owner of the photo would have to demonstrate a loss because the law is only interested in money.  I have not seen the photo.
Why would you pay anybody without a court order  and a total of euro 300 would not pay any legal fees.
How did the owner of the photo get the address of the offender ??  So dont use your real name on  a forum.
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 13, 2020, 18:03:10
It seems that linking to a picture on the internet should be "safe" (I am allowed to link to this document):
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/481194/c-notice-201401.pdf
It also seems that pictures are by default "Copyright". It is not necessary to write anything about it......as I read it.....(read it very fast so may have missed something).

…..but what was the reason for the owner of the picture to make that kind of "punishment"?
He could just have requested the picture to be removed in first place. The lens was displayed on a Nikon friendly site so what harm did it do to his image? 
It was "non commercial" use.
Are the fees for violating a Copyright standardized so EUR 300 is the prize (lens is expensive…..so maybe he needs some money)?
Probably it could be much more expensive to find out.....

No standard at all, it was approx 150 for the lawyer and 150 for the photographer. Had it been used mor often if woudl have been way more..
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 13, 2020, 18:07:00
Don't get me wrong here: I did something wrong, but without knowing it. I'm always very careful about the copyright laws, also in forums I moderate as it has gotten "so common" to show pictures found on the net.

So take this as what it was intended for: a WARNING TO TAKE COPYRIGHT LAWS SERIOUS!!

Also since I work professionally, quite a few of my works have need stolen or used w/o my permission, but for me it makes no sense to go after that - not worth it, actually it is free advertisement ;-)
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 13, 2020, 18:13:30
Sorry to hear that, Klaus. I think it is a bit shortsighted to immediately sue someone or ask for money. IMHO the more people share the photographer's work (with reference)the better known the photographer becomes. 

The situation becomes different when someone commercially exploits a photo or pretends he/she took the photo. That would be a reason to sue or send a bill. Fortunately that has never happened to me.

Just my 2 cents..

This is my take too and it has actually helped to get known!
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Toby on August 14, 2020, 00:11:00
That is rather horrific Klaus. Some people, to put it indelicately, really have a stick up their ass. I personally have no problem with people using my images if not for commercial purposes, or unless they claim them as theirs.
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on August 28, 2020, 16:04:28
That is rather horrific Klaus. Some people, to put it indelicately, really have a stick up their ass. I personally have no problem with people using my images if not for commercial purposes, or unless they claim them as theirs.

I guess it is the result of "COVID-greed" - people sittig around having nothing to do, so they think about how to make some money easily....
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Hugh_3170 on August 29, 2020, 00:40:42
+1

Quite Horrific.  Especially where the image was used in a review context.

That is rather horrific Klaus. Some people, to put it indelicately, really have a stick up their ass. I personally have no problem with people using my images if not for commercial purposes, or unless they claim them as theirs.
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Toby on August 29, 2020, 11:01:25
I guess it is the result of "COVID-greed" - people sittig around having nothing to do, so they think about how to make some money easily....

Really very sad. Some time ago I find some nice flowers to photograph on a strip of lawn in front of a church. I parked my bike, took two steps with my camera in hand, and a guy pulled over and said, "HEY, you know that's PRIVATE PROPERTY?" I looked at him in surprise, and said, "Do you think somebody minds?" "It's PRIVATE PROPERTY," he repeated. So I left and felt shitty the rest of the day. What is wrong with people? I think they are just miserable and want to make sure everyone else is too.
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: pluton on August 29, 2020, 19:15:54
"It's PRIVATE PROPERTY," he repeated. So I left and felt shitty the rest of the day. What is wrong with people? I think they are just miserable and want to make sure everyone else is too.
I have had similar run-ins with hothead types here in the USA, pre-C-19 pandemic mostly. I agree with your assessment that these people are most likely miserable and probably feel that their life is shitty.
In the USA, people have a legally defined "Right To Privacy".  But...inanimate or non-human objects have no such rights. 
Lately, I reply to any such complaint or question with either "Learn the law." or simply "You're wrong." 
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: CS on August 29, 2020, 19:49:33
I have had similar run-ins with hothead types here in the USA, pre-C-19 pandemic mostly. I agree with your assessment that these people are most likely miserable and probably feel that their life is shitty.
In the USA, people have a legally defined "Right To Privacy".  But...inanimate or non-human objects have no such rights. 
Lately, I reply to any such complaint or question with either "Learn the law." or simply "You're wrong."

I gave been given to understand that the famous "Lone Cypress" tree, on the famous 17 Mile Drive in Carmel, is indeed claimed to  be private property, and unauthorized photography is not allowed. Comments?
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Bill De Jager on August 30, 2020, 00:52:49
I gave been given to understand that the famous "Lone Cypress" tree, on the famous 17 Mile Drive in Carmel, is indeed claimed to  be private property, and unauthorized photography is not allowed. Comments?

They have a sign to that affect regarding commercial photography of the tree.  This law office (https://www.knowmad.law/post/2017/09/15/dont-talk-about-our-tree-pebble-beachs-lone-cypress-trademark) disagrees that it's enforceable.

Quote
Pebble Beach Co. long ago adopted the tree as a symbol, and in 1990 it registered an image of the Lone Cypress as a trademark for various services. In the years thereafter, the corporation's aggressive IP enforcement practices attracted considerable attention, including articles in the New York Times and Monterey County Weekly, and earned it a fair degree of local infamy.


The piece then goes on to note:

Quote
A trademark by definition can only be infringed by another trademark and only to the extent that the two marks are likely to cause consumer confusion.

This of course is U.S. law.  While treaties provide some similarity of intellectual property laws between many countries, there will be some differences.
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: CS on August 30, 2020, 01:20:31
They have a sign to that affect regarding commercial photography of the tree.  This law office (https://www.knowmad.law/post/2017/09/15/dont-talk-about-our-tree-pebble-beachs-lone-cypress-trademark) disagrees that it's enforceable.
 

The piece then goes on to note:

This of course is U.S. law.  While treaties provide some similarity of intellectual property laws between many countries, there will be some differences.

I thought there was a sign there there’s been so many years since I’ve been there.

Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Bill De Jager on August 30, 2020, 19:11:09
There is and it's mentioned at the link.
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: CS on August 30, 2020, 20:08:37
There is and it's mentioned at the link.


Indeed, and I have a brass and copper artist's rendition of a Monterey cypress tree hanging on one of my walls. I bought it at an art festival because it reminded me of the Monterey area (fresh seafood and great restaurants, etc), but there's no claim that it's a replica of "the" Lone Monterey Cypress, or just a depiction of a run of the mill Monterey cypress.

On the other side of things, how many people have been drawn to pay the fee to take the beautiful 17 mile drive and see that famous tree in it's natural habitat?  ;)
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: CS on August 30, 2020, 21:56:27

Indeed, and I have a brass and copper artist's rendition of a Monterey cypress tree hanging on one of my walls. I bought it at an art festival because it reminded me of the Monterey area (fresh seafood and great restaurants, etc), but there's no claim that it's a replica of "the" Lone Monterey Cypress, or just a depiction of a run of the mill Monterey cypress.

On the other side of things, how many people have been drawn to pay the fee to take the beautiful 17 mile drive and see that famous tree in it's natural habitat?  ;)

A quick snap from my iPhone reveals my Monterey cypress.  ;D

Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Birna Rørslett on August 31, 2020, 11:49:14
I sincerely hope the tendency to be greedy is less contagious than C-19 itself. You have my fullest sympathy, Klaus. His behaviour was obnoxious.
Title: Re: Nikon 2.8/6mm for EUR300
Post by: Dr Klaus Schmitt on September 04, 2020, 21:33:11
I sincerely hope the tendency to be greedy is less contagious than C-19 itself. You have my fullest sympathy, Klaus. His behaviour was obnoxious.

Thanks Birna, appreciated! I fully understand why some forums also only allow own content of members (i.e. their own images) to be posted, nothing else!

Difficult for moderators - I'm one in a 10,000+ members forum and always mention this there - but hardly anyone seems to care...hence my posting here!