NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on July 31, 2020, 16:51:07

Title: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on July 31, 2020, 16:51:07
I purchased, for the second time, the Nikkon 500 f/4P! I missed my old one, you just don't know what you had till it is gone you know?

Question, is the rear 39mm filter supposed to be installed 24/7? as in part of the optical formula? Will sharpness suffer without? mine only came with the gel filter option.

what are the part si am looking for?
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: MFloyd on July 31, 2020, 20:21:13
Yes. Always a (glass) filter in the rear slot.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Bill De Jager on July 31, 2020, 21:18:46
Nikon formerly made the appropriate filters.  They are skinny enough to fit through the filter holder slot when attached to the filter holder (which you should have).  I checked and KEH.com has one of these filters, but it's an ND filter which you probably don't want to use all the time.  Try eBay.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Roland Vink on July 31, 2020, 21:36:31
I thought the slot-in filter was optional. Removing the filter may alter the focus point, but the focal length is very long so light passing through will be nearly perpendicular, which means any focus shift will be minimal. Also, because it has ED glass the lens is designed to focus beyond infinity to cope with thermal expansion, which will easily cover any focus shift. Correct me if I am wrong on this. Regardless of whether a filter is in place or not, the filter holder should always be inserted to prevent light and dust entering the lens.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on July 31, 2020, 23:57:08
Guy in Japan has the drop in screw version and filter but apparently Japan can't send to US cause of Covid... Darn

Edit. Itself found and bought the threaded holder. Now. What's the name of the glass?
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 01, 2020, 00:31:35
Shouldn't it be a 39 mm NC screw in Filter for the holder - not an ND?

These lenses came with the built in filter holder and a Gelatine filter holder.The filter thickness should not be too much of a problem otherwise the (thinner) gelatine filters weren't usable and a Gelatine filter holder would not have made sense.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Matthew Currie on August 01, 2020, 00:54:20
My wife got one of those some years ago and we still bring it out from time to time, though I find the 200-500 zoom more practical most of the time.

This one, though used from KEH, had all the stuff with it, including the instructions (multi-lingual sheet, could scan language of choice if need be).  In the Using Filters section, it reads: "Always use a filter with the lens.  The slip-in glass filter holder comes mounted with a Nikon L37C filter. A slip-in gelatine filter holder is also supplied with the lens"  In the listing of accessories,  the TC-14B and TC-301 are listed as the preferred teleconverters, and for other filters, it just says "other 39 mm screw-in filters." The filter does screw into the holder.

I've never tried this without the filter, but it sure works well with it.

e.t.a. there is no part number on the filter holders, and no mention of part numbers in the instructions.  But I really doubt whether the filter is optically vital, because neither holder has a direction of installation, and the gelatin filter is plainly asymmetrical. If you have a piece of filter gelatin, I'd try it with and without, and see how it compares when pixel peeping.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: MFloyd on August 01, 2020, 16:34:50
Page 28 of the 300mm f/2.8 VR II manual:

Slip-in filter holder
Always use a (52mm screw-on) filter. A 52mm Screw-on NC Filter is
Kr attached to the filter holder when shipped from the factory.
a Press down on the slip-in filter holder knob, and turn counterclockwise until the white line on the knob is at a right angle to the axis of the lens.
b Pull the slip-in filter holder from the lens body
c Detach the attached filter from the filter holder.
d Screw a filter onto the side of the filter holder marked with the words “Nikon” and “JAPAN”.
• The slip-in filter holder can be attached either facing lens or camera side without having any effect on your pictures.

I guess it should be the same for the 500 mm.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 01, 2020, 23:19:36
I have got a second hand copy of the 500 mm f/4 AF-S version I (so it is 2 hops further with the AF-I version in between). It contains a drop in filter holder with a 52 mm NC (neutral color) screw in filter plus a gelatine filter holder (the modern Superteles are lacking this accessory). Both holders are not coded (unlike the drop-in Polarizers).

My old second hand 400 mm f/3,5 AI-S includes a filter holder for 39 mm screw in filters - an L37C, it is very likely that the 500 mm f/4 P also contained an L37C
The second hand 600 mm f/4 AI-S was lacking the screw - in filter and hat the Gelatine filter holder inserted instead. I never tried to test whether there is a difference.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Erik Lund on August 01, 2020, 23:30:16
My second hand 500 mm f/4 Ai-P came with a drop in 39mm L37c filter attached. I also had the pol filter for the lens.

Shot some very nice safari images with it. Lovely lens!

I have several times tested Nikkor telelenses with and without the internal filter in place, super difficult to come with a conclusion so I have always kept it in place :o


Both L37c and NC types,,, no difference on a DSLR, between those two types, of course
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on August 02, 2020, 01:21:28
I see that the  TC-301 is recommended. how does a teleconverter like that compared to the modern versions that Nikon has made?
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Steven Paulsen on August 02, 2020, 05:28:09
I still haven't gotten around to see what a + 1 or 2 in place of the drop in filter might do. The previous owner included a drop in polar slide in.


I really love this lens, though optimum time around home, here is spring and fall. I am at the point where I still can, but really need an extra hand with lugging all the baggage.


It's one of those delights like, "Why did they have to put anything higher than f4 on the darn thing, it's that good."
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Erik Lund on August 02, 2020, 14:10:49
I see that the  TC-301 is recommended. how does a teleconverter like that compared to the modern versions that Nikon has made?
Bad, or not really 'giving' anything to lens.
Use any of the newer TC-E converters - They work extremely well on this lens, I shot extensively with them on Safari.
Just remove the small tap on the bayonet mount of the TC then all of the Nikkor tele lenses fit nicely and all info from the CPU is tranferred.
Note, for some lenc converter combinations the focal length is not completely correct, but this has no influence on IQ ;)
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on August 04, 2020, 23:53:01
Do any other hoods work on this?
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Erik Lund on August 05, 2020, 07:36:22
Do any other hoods work on this?

Yes, all of the '120mm' front diameter ( Does not fit!); AF-S hoods for 200mm f/2, 200-400mm f/4, 300mm f/2.8 - HK-30 is a nice strong carbon fiber tube, very expensive,,,
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Roland Vink on August 05, 2020, 23:53:42
The hoods for most (all?) 200/2, 200-400/4 and 300/2.8 lenses are interchangeable. These all have a similar size entrance pupil of 100-107mm.

The front element of the 500/4 is significantly larger at 125mm, I think the hoods for the lenses above will be too small to fit this lens.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Erik Lund on August 06, 2020, 00:34:00
The manual focus 500mm f/4 Ai-P is front 'filter size' 122mm, same as the old 300mm f/2.8 lenses for instance,,,


Pretty sure I remember, but off course,,, could be wrong (Yes I was wrong) so let's hear it from Current owners should be easy  :o 8)


This is with the original HK-17
https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/18830637619/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/18830637619/)
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Roland Vink on August 06, 2020, 01:15:51
Maybe you are thinking of the AI-S 400/3.5?

The 500mm f/4 Ai-P only accepts 39mm internal filters. It has a fixed protective front glass plate if my records are correct, not screw-in.

If it accepted 122mm filters, either Nikon are cheating on the focal length or max aperture, as a 500/4 lens requires at least 125mm front element, so the hood should be even bigger.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Birna Rørslett on August 06, 2020, 02:27:51
The 500/4 Ai-P is indeed 122mm in front, but its hood is not interchangeable with the 200/2 & 300/2.8 AF Nikkors as the latter have slightly narrower hoods.

Roland, do remember the entrance pupil is virtual so using the size of the front element is just a first-order approximation and only makes sense for long focal lengths.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Matthew Currie on August 06, 2020, 05:10:16
The instructions don't give a front filter size,  and there are no filter threads in the opening, though there are threads deeper in. I think you'd have a problem trying to thread a filter in, because it would be recessed and very hard to get out.  The opening looks to be about 122 mm at those threads.

The hood mounts on the outside of the barrel, and that is 130 mm.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Birna Rørslett on August 06, 2020, 08:33:58
Sorry forgot to mention the 500/4P doesn't have filter threads in front. It relies on 39mm drop-in filters.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Erik Lund on August 06, 2020, 10:25:58
Well it's 122mm front according to Mir 'filter thread' so most likely it comes from the brochure  :o Yes it has a rubber bumper as all of the later big tele lenses ;)
Sorry, hope nobody went ad bought a wrong lens hood - I'll edit the post ;) Thank you all for checking!!!
Then back to the question, what hood fits? apart from HK-17
Anyway, I don't recall if I modified it,,,
The old 122mm filter threads of 300mm AI Ais f/2.8 correcponds in dimensions. Check Rolands pages as allways! He is right of course
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Roland Vink on August 06, 2020, 10:56:48
My site says the 500/4 P has 39mmdrop-in filters, nowhere does it say it has 122mm filters... I'll see if I can dig up any old brochures which list this lens.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Erik Lund on August 06, 2020, 11:50:16
Sorry, not formulated well, ill correct it:
Mir quote:
The front filter thread is 122mm but it accepts 39mm drop-in filters at the special filter drawer at the rear section. A special extra long extension dedicated carbon-fibred strengthened HK-17 lens hood was a standard accessory
Exposure measurement: Via full aperture method; meter coupling ridge provided for Al cameras and meter coupling shoe for non-AI cameras, CPU integrated for Matrix Metering with suitable Nikon SLRs
 Maximum Reproduction ratio: 1:9.1
 Distance scale: Graduated in meters and feet from 5m (16.4ft.) to infinity (oo)
 Weight: 3,000g; Tripod Mount: Fixed type
 Dimensions: 138mm dia. x 384mm long (overall)
 Filters (Rear/Front): 39mm slip-in via special slip-in filter holder/122mm optical protective UV filter
 Front lens cap: Slip-on; Lens hood: HE-17 Extension Hood as standard accessory


The old 122mm filter threads of 300mm AI Ais f/2.8 correcponds in dimensions. Check Rolands pages as allways! He is right of course ;)

My guess is that I remembered wrong. Probably the hood for 500mm f/4 AF-S was the one I used,,,
 
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 06, 2020, 13:24:29
My 500 /4 AF-S has the really extra long HK-24 (and no front filter thread). The HK-17 for the 500 mm f/4 P is shorter (and there appeares to be a Hood extension as accessory).
The also mentioned 400 mm f/3,5 AI-S has 122 mm front filter thread (in addition to the 39 mm drop in) and a (very short) built in lens-hood- never tried to adapt another hood here.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Matthew Currie on August 06, 2020, 17:01:18
Here are a couple of quick and dirty pictures.  As you can see, the front threads are recessed behind the rather deep rubber bumper.  I don't know what would be revealed if some intrepid experimenter pried off the rubber. 

I got the dimensions a bit wrong in my previous post, and it looks as if the distance between the plastic stops on the hood is more like 133 millimeters, not 130. 

Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: rs on August 06, 2020, 21:27:47
I think you might find that what looks like threading in that first photo, are just parallel grooves to make the lock ring less reflective, from a flare perspective.

Regards,

Richard
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Asle F on September 02, 2020, 15:44:58
The hoods for most (all?) 200/2, 200-400/4 and 300/2.8 lenses are interchangeable.

Not all. The hood for my AIS 200mm/2 and AF-I 300mm/2.8 are not interchangeable.
Title: Re: Nikon 500mm f/4P question & discussion
Post by: Matthew Currie on September 02, 2020, 18:02:21
I think you might find that what looks like threading in that first photo, are just parallel grooves to make the lock ring less reflective, from a flare perspective.

Regards,

Richard

I'll check again when I get it back.  On close examination I found that it had been in its suitcase too long and was growing some fungus so it's off getting taken apart and cleaned.  Probably won't be back for a little while.