NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Akira on July 21, 2020, 06:37:19
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According to dpreview.com:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/6057317091/nikon-z5-is-an-entry-level-full-frame-camera-that-doesn-t-cut-corners
Even though it is an entry model, it offers dual SD UHS-II card slots! Wow!
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NikonUSA link for technical specifications.
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-cameras/z-5.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs
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Thanks for sharing the links, Akira and Netr.
This camera really intrigues me. I am not sure why they call it an entry model. The double card slot may lure the better-safe-than-sorry wedding and event photographers to the Z-campagne and it shares the sensor and processor With the Z6 (I wonder if it also has the same glass stack). Perhaps calling it an entry model is a marketing invention to make the camera cheaper and attract more customers.
I wonder how the user of this camera can check exposure settings with this camera. There is no top lcd.
Anyway, interesting development!
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The Z5 hasn't the BSI sensor of the Z6 so this isn't equal. Also, top framing rate is lower 4.5 vs 12 fps. Otherwise it has the same control layout as the Z50, using touch controls for functions which require buttons on the other Z's.
It is conceived to be used by the MB-N10 grip. Video and the use of the camera as a web cam are other areas of use.
The new 24-50 kit zoom is compact, but I never have been fan of the pull-out-to-activate design.
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With this compact Z5 Nikon seems to widening the FX niche, thanks to highly affordable FX camera thanks to the form factor of the lighter and more compact MILC. It follows the market for APC/DX systems is now being squeezed even tighter from the top (FX) as well as bottom (phone cameras). The Z5 is a serious product, built around a Z6 sensor with EXPEED6; it meets top industry standards for excellent IQ in lowlight. This is judging from photonstophotos lab testing and my shooting the D780.
Arguably, for many travellers and enthusiasts it's mainly lower price US$860 to justify a Z50 over the $1400 Z5. Z5 prices will drop, and be interesting when it will get to sub $1000. Specifically the Z50 weighs 480g @ 126.5 x 93.5mm compared to the 675g Z5 @ 134 x 100.5mm (almost identical to the Z6/7). Together with their official blurb claiming the most compact, lightest FZ zoom, Nikon is matching other compact lighter options for MILC but importantly this is the Z mount fronting the FX sensor. Hopefully we will see the pancake Z primes soon.
links to Nikon's press release, including the updated Z-Nikkor roadmap: - scroll down https://www.nikon.co.jp/news/2020/0721_nikkor-z_02.htm
https://www.nikon.co.jp/news/2020/0721_z5_01.htm
"The "NIKKOR Z 24-50mm f/4-6.3" is a standard zoom lens that achieves compactness and light weight while maintaining the high optical performance of the NIKKOR Z lens. With a buttonless collapsible body, we have achieved the thinnest *1 about 51mm *2 and the lightest *1 about 195g in a zoom lens compatible with full size format for mirrorless cameras . We have achieved both high portability and high descriptive power. ..."
https://www.nikon.co.jp/news/2020/0721_nikkor-z_02.htm
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With this compact Z5 Nikon seems to widening the FX niche, thanks to highly affordable FX camera thanks to the form factor of the lighter and more compact MILC. It follows the market for APC/DX systems is now being squeezed even tighter from the top (FX) as well as bottom (phone cameras). The Z5 is a serious product, built around a Z6 sensor with EXPEED6; it meets top industry standards for excellent IQ in lowlight. This is judging from photonstophotos lab testing and my shooting the D780.
The Z5 does not reportedly have the Z6's sensor; both are 24MP but the Z5 sensor is not BSI and the 4K video is with a 1.7x crop whereas the Z6 can do full sensor width resampled 4K without line skipping. For video the 1.7x crop means the kit zoom probably isn't wide enough for a lot of typical uses and a 14-30 or similar may need to be purchased.
However, the Z5 does appear to have a lot of features that are advanced in its class; dual card slots, high-quality EVF, and the ergonomics is consistent with the rest of the Z line with two command dials.
The DX Z50 has the advantage that its kit zoom goes to head-and-shoulders 50mm wheras when used on FX, 50mm framed to make a head-and-shoulders portrait would result in a perspective which would exaggerate the nose compared to the same framing made with classical portrait teles, however, as people are more used to using mobile phones for portraits, perhaps this is becoming more acceptable than it has been in the past. I think the Z50's wide-to-tele zoom is more generally usable than the Z5's wide angle to normal zoom and both are compact. Of course, if mounted on a Z5, the 24-50 may be able to produce the desired result of a head and shoulders portrait in a cropped image, but my guess is that most Z7 users would pick the 24-70/4 or f/2.8. The 24-50 seems to be a good choice for travel and landscape with size, weight and cost as constraints. The portability is achieved by reducing the aperture. I'm actually glad to see Nikon make this lens as otherwise it would seem that FX kit zooms are not really implementing the compactness potential of mirrorless cameras. Hopefully the image quality will be good.
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24-50 FX MTF data from Nikon. Also note 3 aspheric and 2 ED elements
https://www.nikon-image.com/products/nikkor/zmount/nikkor_z_24-50mm_f4-63/spec.html#mtf
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Those curves hint at a very highly corrected optical design. Perhaps my aversion against collapsible lenses needs modification?
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I thing we all have to rethink about these lenses
The image of a all metal lens is going to change for good
I recently checked 16-50 with Z50 shooting a friend in portrait and I show no difference in IQ from f1.8 primes 35dx, 50G, only 85 G had slight difference.
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Considering that D750 with the conventional, non-BSI sensor performed quite well at high ISO, Z5 of much newer generation should perform up to today's standard, although it may not match Z6 in this regard.
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i would have bought this instead of the Z6 :o :o :o
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I thing we all have to rethink about these lenses
The image of a all metal lens is going to change for good
I recently checked 16-50 with Z50 shooting a friend in portrait and I show no difference in IQ from f1.8 primes 35dx, 50G, only 85 G had slight difference.
So you were basically just missing the narrower DOF of the faster lenses?
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i would have bought this instead of the Z6 :o :o :o
Okay, and I saved my money by not buying either, which means that I have no Z to shoot! What this amounts to is that aggravation awaits no matter what you do........ ;)
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This has me reconsidering my interest in a Fuji.
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This has me reconsidering my interest in a Fuji.
Same here Ian - and I already have 2 Fuji's and 4 lenses..
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Is there a possibility that this FSI sensor will work better than the BSI in Z6 for infrared conversion? Any thoughts?
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This camera really intrigues me. I am not sure why they call it an entry model.
There has previously been speculation that a true low-end FX Z model with no EVF, a smaller body, and no IBIS will be released at some point. This could yet happen, and such a camera presumably would have only one card slot.
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Same here Ian - and I already have 2 Fuji's and 4 lenses..
5he Z50 catches my eye, but no IBIS or fast lenses. I’m wondering how it stacks up against the Z5.
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To me there is no ooint in buying the Z5 when the Z6 can be bought for similar amount of gold/pennies/etc.
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Maybe there is a Z6s on the way at a higher price point? ;D
To me there is no ooint in buying the Z5 when the Z6 can be bought for similar amount of gold/pennies/etc.
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Maybe there is a Z6s on the way at a higher price point? ;D
What’s another $1000, Eh?
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To me there is no ooint in buying the Z5 when the Z6 can be bought for similar amount of gold/pennies/etc.
Maybe there is a Z6s on the way at a higher price point? ;D
Thom Hogan is (quite reasonably) speculating that the Z6 and Z7 will move upmarket, with dual card slots and other improvements, to better space out the models. That would be a good outcome. Here's my wish list for these two cameras:
-Pixel shift
-Second card slot (XQD and CF Express are really good, but SD is still the all-purpose card that you can stick directly into many computers without a separate reader)
-Better focus stacking (could be done via firmware update for existing models)
-Better battery grip
I'm still really happy with my Z6 as a compact go-anywhere full-frame camera. If I later buy a Z7 II or a Z8 as a high-resolution landscape camera then I'll have a nice pair of Z bodies for different purposes.
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Strongly agree - the dual SD Card slots of the Z5 are a smart choice on the part of Nikon. Wish my Z6 had them.
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-Second card slot (XQD and CF Express are really good, but SD is still the all-purpose card that you can stick directly into many computers without a separate reader)
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So you were basically just missing the narrower DOF of the faster lenses?
Yes
But you have to try with S lenses also
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A New website dedicated to Z System - complimenting his sansmirror site
https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/welcome-to-z-system-user.html
Thom Hogan is (quite reasonably) speculating that the Z6 and Z7 will move upmarket, with dual card slots and other improvements, to better space out the models. That would be a good outcome. Here's my wish list for these two cameras:
-Pixel shift
-Second card slot (XQD and CF Express are really good, but SD is still the all-purpose card that you can stick directly into many computers without a separate reader)
-Better focus stacking (could be done via firmware update for existing models)
-Better battery grip
I'm still really happy with my Z6 as a compact go-anywhere full-frame camera. If I later buy a Z7 II or a Z8 as a high-resolution landscape camera then I'll have a nice pair of Z bodies for different purposes.
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I’m hoping Oivind gets a Z50 and tries out his 12-24 on it! 8)
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While I eyed Z50 as a possible companion to the D500/300PF (taking place of my AW-1 which often goes along on day hikes as a wider, easily accessible and rugged camera - the zoom is excellent), I felt yet another battery type and lack of remote connector was too much of a drawback. If the Z50 does not have a lowpass filter, there is no reason it should perform much differently image wise than on the D500 as the sensor is essentially the same. However the handling might not be optimal with the 12-24mm/FTZ. It would not be that small adorable package as with the kit lens.
The Z5 could be more interesting but I really want to see how prices are dropping along with other bodies being upgraded and the system fills out before possibly jumping in, as it is a question what optics one would want in addition to the kit lens. With Covid-19 around there is really no hurry - with a bigger second wave going on here it does not look like I will be doing any important travel for quite some time. My around the neighborhood captures lately have been >90% with the D500/300PF combination.
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While I eyed Z50 as a possible companion to the D500/300PF (taking place of my AW-1 which often goes along on day hikes as a wider, easily accessible and rugged camera - the zoom is excellent), I felt yet another battery type and lack of remote connector was too much of a drawback. If the Z50 does not have a lowpass filter, there is no reason it should perform much differently image wise than on the D500 as the sensor is essentially the same. However the handling might not be optimal with the 12-24mm/FTZ. It would not be that small adorable package as with the kit lens.
The Z5 could be more interesting but I really want to see how prices are dropping along with other bodies being upgraded and the system fills out before possibly jumping in, as it is a question what optics one would want in addition to the kit lens. With Covid-19 around there is really no hurry - with a bigger second wave going on here it does not look like I will be doing any important travel for quite some time. My around the neighborhood captures lately have been >90% with the D500/300PF combination.
You make some good points, Oivind.
Looking deeper, our little Z50 is priced very close to the new Z5, and IMO. the Z5 is over priced, so we will see a discount on that Z5 before long. On top of that, who knows what Black Friday pricing will offer? Sure, I'd rather have a Z6-24-70 combo, but I'm not wanting to drop an extra $1000 to get one.
The Z5 does both FX and DX, although I'm in the dark WRT how various F mount lenses function with the FTZ between them and the Z body. That's a consideration for me since my gear is mostly DX, with a small amount of F amount lenses in my bag left over from my film days. One could use the 12-24 on an FX body if they gave up the wider capabilities. How would that play out withe 12-24 mounted to an FTZ? IOW, I don't even know what I don't know about moving into the Z world. Maybe the Z50 is a better choice for me if I did move up to Z, but the lack of IBIS gives me pause as my vision and balance get worse with age.
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Z50 might not have IBIS, but its handling is pretty good so easy to support the camera steadily.
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nikon is smart by not selling this at the same time as the others.
people would just buy this instead :o :o :o
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Looking deeper, our little Z50 is priced very close to the new Z5, and IMO. the Z5 is over priced, so we will see a discount on that Z5 before long. On top of that, who knows what Black Friday pricing will offer? Sure, I'd rather have a Z6-24-70 combo, but I'm not wanting to drop an extra $1000 to get one.
Value is subjective but I think that the price of the Z5 is reasonable. More of a problem is which lens to buy to go with it. The 24-70/4 is unlikely to be offered as a kit with it and the new 24-50 is too slow to catch a cold. I don’t see the point in buying a Z if I cannot afford at least one native lens to go with it.
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Value is subjective but I think that the price of the Z5 is reasonable. More of a problem is which lens to buy to go with it. The 24-70/4 is unlikely to be offered as a kit with it and the new 24-50 is too slow to catch a cold. I don’t see the point in buying a Z if I cannot afford at least one native lens to go with it.
I guess it all depends on one's photography subjects and style. The 24-50mm f4-6.3 would cover the majority of my holiday and city images. If manual focus is not a problem a K&F F to Z adapter and a second hand manual focus lens could be a nice and cheap supplement.
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Live on Friday afternoon in London - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-LbZOKDYpk
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Z50 might not have IBIS, but its handling is pretty good so easy to support the camera steadily.
Thanks for that. Maybe you'll get a Z5 then post a comparison with it against the Z50m and the Z6. :)
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You make some good points, Oivind.
Looking deeper, our little Z50 is priced very close to the new Z5, and IMO. the Z5 is over priced, so we will see a discount on that Z5 before long. On top of that, who knows what Black Friday pricing will offer? Sure, I'd rather have a Z6-24-70 combo, but I'm not wanting to drop an extra $1000 to get one.
The Z5 does both FX and DX, although I'm in the dark WRT how various F mount lenses function with the FTZ between them and the Z body. That's a consideration for me since my gear is mostly DX, with a small amount of F amount lenses in my bag left over from my film days. One could use the 12-24 on an FX body if they gave up the wider capabilities. How would that play out withe 12-24 mounted to an FTZ? IOW, I don't even know what I don't know about moving into the Z world. Maybe the Z50 is a better choice for me if I did move up to Z, but the lack of IBIS gives me pause as my vision and balance get worse with age.
The Z50 with kit lens 16-50 works extremely well and 16-50 has VR. Also the 16-50 is very compact so it is only if you really need the extra wide angle from the 12-24 and then it is quite easy to hand hold even without VR. I have Z50, 12-24 and FTZ adapter but have only tried 12-24 to see if it worked. Z50 is a lot less compact with 12-24 + FTZ but seems to be able to make nice images.
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The Z50 with kit lens 16-50 works extremely well and 16-50 has VR. Also the 16-50 is very compact so it is only if you really need the extra wide angle from the 12-24 and then it is quite easy to hand hold even without VR. I have Z50, 12-24 and FTZ adapter but have only tried 12-24 to see if it worked. Z50 is a lot less compact with 12-24 + FTZ but seems to be able to make nice images.
If I went for the Z50m I already have stabilized 17-50 f/2.8 that I use on my D7200.Then I have a 70-300 VR that would also sit on the FTZ, so unless the kit lenses are that much better than what I have, I could just go for the body. Of course that blows compactness all to hell, and might turn it to be a bad idea. If you can squeeze off some . images with your 12-24-Z50-FTZ, and post them, I would be grateful.
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I took a couple of the usual test images from my view at home (before my 15k Saturday run) with Z50 + FTZ + 12-24 set at 12mm. First image at F4 (with a couple of 100% crops) and second image at F11 with same 100% crops. I think at 12mm you get the "worst" quality from the lens. But lens makes nice sharp images. I did not play with curves etc. to post process the images. Just "snaps".
From last image is a compare between Z50 with 16-50 and 12-24 with FTZ adapter. It shows that 16-50 is quite compact and the optical quality is very high.
If going for the Z50 I would suggest to get the kit with 16-50 and FTZ as you get these for less than half the normal price......if you take price from kit and subtract price for Z50 body only?
With extra FTZ adapters you can have FTZ permanent on most used lenses. Then it is easier to swap between Z and F-lenses. I have just got one more FTZ for that purpose but paid probably close to double up compared to the kit price.
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Also the built-in flash in Z50 works better with 16-50 than 12-24 as the big lens will shade for the flash for close-ups.
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Maybe the NIKKOR 10-20 afp Dx is a good option that’s lighter and less bulky?
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I took a couple of the usual test images from my view at home (before my 15k Saturday run) with Z50 + FTZ + 12-24 set at 12mm. First image at F4 (with a couple of 100% crops) and second image at F11 with same 100% crops. I think at 12mm you get the "worst" quality from the lens. But lens makes nice sharp images. I did not play with curves etc. to post process the images. Just "snaps".
From last image is a compare between Z50 with 16-50 and 12-24 with FTZ adapter. It shows that 16-50 is quite compact and the optical quality is very high.
If going for the Z50 I would suggest to get the kit with 16-50 and FTZ as you get these for less than half the normal price......if you take price from kit and subtract price for Z50 body only?
With extra FTZ adapters you can have FTZ permanent on most used lenses. Then it is easier to swap between Z and F-lenses. I have just got one more FTZ for that purpose but paid probably close to double up compared to the kit price.
Thank you very much!
Yes, 12mm is the weak point for the 12-24, but, many consider it to rival primes at 24m. It does not appear that the FTZ created any issues with performance, if you don't count flash shading caused by the low angle built in flash and larger diameter lenses. But, that particular problem applies to more camera bodies than just the Z line.
The 16-50 looks very nice, something that I notice applies to the Z lenses released so far. It does offer me redundancy that I'm not sure I need. But, it must be said that I have not shot a Z body or any Z lenses, so what do I know? The 10-20 (more redundancy, but also 2mm more on the wide end over he 12-24)is currently enjoying a discount here, and the FTZ is priced at $50 with camera body purchase.
I gad a thought that a Z body would allow me to use my 105-2.5 again. I can't focus manual lenses on my current DSLRs, and my ARMD certainly does not help. I have to rely on AF, so maybe moving to a Z is little more than a pipe dream. In any event, I thank NG for the responses, and MEPER, I quite like that first image!. ;)
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I had the Z50 and 12-24 with FTZ out for at short walk and took at couple of "snaps".
The large lens handles quite well on Z50. You can really grab on the lens and keep it steady.....almost as good as VR :-)
Images are shot at 12mm around aperture 7. The 12-24 is a very good lens.
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I had the Z50 and 12-24 with FTZ out for at short walk and took at couple of "snaps".
The large lens handles quite well on Z50. You can really grab on the lens and keep it steady.....almost as good as VR :-)
Images are shot at 12mm around aperture 7. The 12-24 is a very good lens.
I have enjoyed my 12-24 for several years on my D200. For some reason I have not ever mounted it on my D7200, but I have threatened to, if that counts. Oivind has done some great work with that lens. Now my Lr catalogue is having fits, many of my images show as "cannot be found". I was going to post a 12mm shot until i discovered the errors. I will probably have to dump my catalogues in Lr, then re-enter the images from my NEFs. Not exactly what I was looking forward to.
I'll try to get out tomorrow and grab some shots with the 12-24. More threats from the fat man.... ::)
Thanks for posting the additional images.
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The 12-24 is mentioned at 1001:
https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0068/index.htm
They dare to point it at the stars at 12mm at full aperture..... :-)
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The 12-24 is mentioned at 1001:
https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0068/index.htm
They dare to point it at the stars at 12mm at full aperture..... :-)
Thanks, I will look at that link later today.
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I will probably have to dump my catalogues in Lr, then re-enter the images from my NEFs. Not exactly what I was looking forward to.
Have you tried rebuilding the catalogue or reverting to a recent backup? My Lr catalogue is remarkably robust having about 80,000 images across several drives and shifted to several computers and major software updates without much complaint, even combining catalogues. Once my catalogue became established I still have the original despite many blunders on my part.
Keep backups...
Check out tutorials...
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Z50 might not have IBIS, but its handling is pretty good so easy to support the camera steadily.
I can see a day not too far off (eighteen months or soon thereafter) when I might acquire a good-used body for microscopy. (At least that'll be the rationale, if not excuse.)
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Talking about lens choices for the Z5, a decent review of 20mm alternatives for Z, also compared to the 14-30mm f/4, from Photography Life:
https://youtu.be/kvT7xJAa7Ak (https://youtu.be/kvT7xJAa7Ak)