NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: BruceSD on April 20, 2020, 23:55:38

Title: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: BruceSD on April 20, 2020, 23:55:38
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I love the colors produced by older CCD sensor cameras.

I currently own the following Nikon CCD cameras:  D200, D80, and D60 (four copies).  They all have the Sony 10.2MP CCD sensor in them.  I understand that the D40X also has that sensor in it too.

I have not owned these cameras very long, but based on my research (and the limited shooting I've done with them) I tend to prefer the D60.  Why?  Because:  of it's smaller size/weight,  after reviewing thousands of images posted on Flickr by these cameras I "favored" far more D60 images than the other two, and the D60 seems a bit sharper as it has a less aggressive AA filter than the other two cameras.

I also plan to purchase the following additional cameras that also have this same Sony 10.2MP CCD sensor in them  -  Sony A200, Pentax K10D.  I hope to conduct some side-by-side testing of these 5 cameras in the future (and if there's enough interest, I'll post my results/conclusions here).

What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?

Thanks,
Dave in Wisconsin USA
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 21, 2020, 00:10:53
D200 and D40x would on the top, probably. in particular the D40x was a little darling of a camera and it took a lot of beating in the field without much complaints.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: MEPER on April 21, 2020, 00:34:28
I have only tried one camera with CCD and this it a Coolpix 990 with 3.34 MP sensor. I used it recently just to try it out as I got new rechargeable batteries for it. I liked the results. I think it is the vintage look of the colors. It looked a bit like I remember the Kodak Ektar 100 negative film. But a CCD sensor that old can be very different from a D200 sensor and also the internal processing of the images can be very different. I have seen very nice D200 bodies for about $100 and this body was very well built. But I have never owned one. A couple of CP 990 images from a few days ago. They were also posted in the "Obsolete camera" thread. I think high ISO performance was not their strength.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: golunvolo on April 21, 2020, 00:56:06
D200 for me. I only have one and it is modified fir infrared only but I have used onother for a long time and I love it. An I miss it...
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: John Geerts on April 21, 2020, 07:04:49
D200 for me. I only have one and it is modified fir infrared only but I have used onother for a long time and I love it. An I miss it...
D200, but actually the Fuji S5 Pro (in a D200 body)  I like more ;)
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Øivind Tøien on April 21, 2020, 07:29:31
I have D200 and D40x, and I would say that unmodified the D200 wins image wise.  I still very much like the images from the time I used it. It has started ailing and become unreliable - perhaps not seen enough use lately, possibly allowing corrosion of contacts.

(https://otoien.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3885261333.jpg)
NIKON D200, f/8 @ 20 mm, 1/125, ISO 100


I think the quality of the AA filter was somewhat lower in the D40x, and Nikon picture controls did not give as good colors without some tweaking. However converted to IR-720nm my D40x really shines with the AA filter gone and replaced by the IR pass filter. It is still my only IR body and keeps working well after seeing a lot of abuse. I also like the small size, as an IR body is usually carried together with a larger unmodified body. It is also possible that lenses are less prone to hot spot in IR with D40x, for instance the 12-24mm.

(https://otoien.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p1593147141.jpg)
NIKON D40X IR-720, 300mm f/4 PF @ f/4, 1/30, ISO 100
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: MEPER on April 21, 2020, 09:21:41
Has anybody tried a D2H/D2Hs?
I read an article some years back when it was still an old camera. The author was very happy with this camera and he liked "fat" pixels. It has a 4.1 MP JFET-LBCAST DX sensor and should be own design by Nikon.
I like JEFTs especially from Toshiba but this is for input stages in audio amplifiers. But maybe JFETs also "sings" in image sensors.
Don't think a LBCAST can be called a CCD but maybe it is the "fat" pixels that are attractive?
The "C" in LBCAST stand for "Charge" so they have "a little" in common.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: HCS on April 21, 2020, 13:48:45
Has anybody tried a D2H/D2Hs?
I read an article some years back when it was still an old camera. The author was very happy with this camera and he liked "fat" pixels. It has a 4.1 MP JFET-LBCAST DX sensor and should be own design by Nikon.
I like JEFTs especially from Toshiba but this is for input stages in audio amplifiers. But maybe JFETs also "sings" in image sensors.
Don't think a LBCAST can be called a CCD but maybe it is the "fat" pixels that are attractive?
The "C" in LBCAST stand for "Charge" so they have "a little" in common.

Yes, D2H. I tried to use it just yesterday, but it seems to have died on me.

I liked it very much. It was my first digital, it handled everything with aplomb and the "measly" 4 mpix gives more quality than one might expect (as long as one exposes correctly). Also, it is the only previous technology camera i have owned (moved to D300, D3s, D810 and D850 after that). I wouldn't know whether or not it would classify as CCD. I do confess i am a nerd, but i am not a techie.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 21, 2020, 13:57:51
I think there still is a D2H on the premises -- used it as a studio cam until approx. 2 years ago so it had a very long working life.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Zang on April 21, 2020, 14:40:18
How does D200 compare to D300 in term of color rendition? I briefly had D200 when it was first released and I vaguely remember that the colors were more natural than the ones from D300.

Cheers,
Zang
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: golunvolo on April 21, 2020, 16:13:14
I went from the d200 to the d300 and remember, apart from speed and iso capabilities, that the d200 was prone to clip the reds more easily. Still I love those colors. I have to confess also that it was my first ever camera so I was and still are in love with her.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: BruceSD on April 21, 2020, 16:22:44
How does D200 compare to D300 in term of color rendition? I briefly had D200 when it was first released and I vaguely remember that the colors were more natural than the ones from D300.

Cheers,
Zang

Thanks everyone for your comments and photos. 

I owned a D300 for many years.  I never cared for its' colors, however I do love the colors I'm getting from my earlier Nikon cameras with 10.2MP CCD sensors.  Because I no longer own the D300 I can not do any direct comparisons.

Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: OCD on April 21, 2020, 19:18:50
I still have my D40 and 35mm 1.8G DX attached to it, although I rarely use it I'm still fond of it and will take it out upon occasion.  I'm fine with the color rendition of my D7500 and D750 and I use DxO Photolab to process Raw files.

The nice thing about the D40 these days, is that a current program such as DxO and processing RAW files can bring the camera back to life so to speak, the D40 is still capable of making nice images.

Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Akira on April 22, 2020, 03:32:51
I enjoyed D40 very much, because it allowed shoot both in UV and IR without modification.  Of course, it didn't perform as brilliantly as the dedicated modified cameras, but that was an added bonus in the true sense of the word.

I wasn't particularly aware of the uniqueness of the color rendition of CCD sensor, but I sometimes look for a D3000 body to make sure of it.  I look at D3000 because it was the very last Nikon DSLR with the CCD sensor and it is compact.

I know that the UV/IR-cut filter in D3000 is so efficient that it won't allow UV/IR shooting, but in this case, I'm interested in the color rendition under visible light.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: OCD on April 22, 2020, 04:26:24
I enjoyed D40 very much, because it allowed shoot both in UV and IR without modification.  Of course, it didn't perform as brilliantly as the dedicated modified cameras, but that was an added bonus in the true sense of the word.

I wasn't particularly aware of the uniqueness of the color rendition of CCD sensor, but I sometimes look for a D3000 body to make sure of it.  I look at D3000 because it was the very last Nikon DSLR with the CCD sensor and it is compact.

I know that the UV/IR-cut filter in D3000 is so efficient that it won't allow UV/IR shooting, but in this case, I'm interested in the color rendition under visible light.

Not sure if it matters, but the D3000 uses the Picture Controls menu for rendering JPEGS, while the D40 uses the Optimize Image menu.   When I first bought the D40 (2009) was just returning to photography as a hobby, it was my first DSLR, and I shot JPEGS.  In recent days, when I use the D40, as mentioned, I shoot Raw and am pleased with the images.  It's a real nice camera in its simplicity.

Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Akira on April 22, 2020, 06:33:46
Not sure if it matters, but the D3000 uses the Picture Controls menu for rendering JPEGS, while the D40 uses the Optimize Image menu.   When I first bought the D40 (2009) was just returning to photography as a hobby, it was my first DSLR, and I shot JPEGS.  In recent days, when I use the D40, as mentioned, I shoot Raw and am pleased with the images.  It's a real nice camera in its simplicity.

I started to use DSLR (and eventually mirrorless) with the premise of shooting RAW and post-process.  I've always set the camera to RAW+JPEG fine mode only to use JPEG file as thumbnail to check out the focus and camera blur.  Maybe that's why I wasn't really aware of the color rendition of CCD.

I look for D3000 also because it uses the conventional mechanical shutter, unlike D40 with the electronic first curtain, and it is free of the smearing issue of the strong point light sources.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: OCD on April 23, 2020, 02:16:33
I started to use DSLR (and eventually mirrorless) with the premise of shooting RAW and post-process.  I've always set the camera to RAW+JPEG fine mode only to use JPEG file as thumbnail to check out the focus and camera blur.  Maybe that's why I wasn't really aware of the color rendition of CCD.

I look for D3000 also because it uses the conventional mechanical shutter, unlike D40 with the electronic first curtain, and it is free of the smearing issue of the strong point light sources.

Sounds like fun plan.   I'm remembering one of the things touted about the D40 is the 1/500 flash sync.  I've not really taken much advantage of it though.  And I think you've explained why the D40 has it, the different shutter perhaps?
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Zang on April 28, 2020, 04:53:09
...Is it true that CCD do not have dead pixels? They are either all "clean" or have banding issues.

Cheers,
Zang
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Akira on April 28, 2020, 07:15:29
Sounds like fun plan.   I'm remembering one of the things touted about the D40 is the 1/500 flash sync.  I've not really taken much advantage of it though.  And I think you've explained why the D40 has it, the different shutter perhaps?

I suspect that the electronic first curtain of D40 was to reduce the cost, and the 1/500 flash sync could have been an unintentional bonus.   :D
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on April 28, 2020, 19:29:24
...Is it true that CCD do not have dead pixels? They are either all "clean" or have banding issues.

Cheers,
Zang
I don't believe that is true.
Dead and hot pixels can exist without banding.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 28, 2020, 21:46:43
CCD-based cameras most definitely may have dead or stuck pixels.... The frequency of those ill-behaving pixels tended to increase over time as well as the camera aged.

I had those irregularities with D1, D1H, D2H, D2X, D200, and D40D40x.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Zang on April 28, 2020, 22:27:32
Hmm... I thought CCD sensors are "read" by shifting the data line by line. If one pixel is dead then you will get the whole vertical strips (or banding in another word).

Cheers,
Zang
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Birna Rørslett on April 28, 2020, 22:28:36
Nah. Saw very little signs of that after the D1-generation.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Seapy on April 28, 2020, 22:53:15
Nah. Saw very little signs of that after the D1-generation.

I had a D1x with a complete line of dead pixels running North-South, with a little bunch of others along the line.  I suspected the camera may have been dropped before it came to me. I took it to pieces, put *most* of the bits in a box and sold it for a profit on eBay - Those were the days! ;D
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Peter Forsell on May 16, 2020, 10:40:20
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Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: MEPER on May 16, 2020, 12:04:57
You showed a trampoline shot in another thread with your daughter head down in the air. When I looked at this pictured I observed some red outline around the feet. So I wondered if it was some photoshop artifacts but maybe this is a fault in the camera that now shows up very clearly?

Electronics may fail after many years. Bad connection / bad solder / bad capacitor etc. can cause problems when electric circuits gets old.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Peter Forsell on May 16, 2020, 15:15:00
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Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: BruceSD on May 16, 2020, 18:00:34
I had the most interesting thing happen a couple of days ago. I shot a few trampoline shots of my daughter with my D1X using flash at high shutter speeds (needs other but middle contact taped). I shot too rapidly and some of the shots came out dark as the flash didn't have time to recover. I needed to adjust image lightess afterwards by a huge amount, like 3-4 stops in Lightroom. There was naturally a lot of banding.
I thought that maybe the banding is fixed (turned out not to be) and shot a few dark frames with lens cap on in order to subtract the banding. Well, that didn't work out, it is random.

But my dark frames have a ghost of my daughter jumping on the trampoline, but I shot the dark frames the next day! And not only one, but all four of them.

Any ideas what might have caused this? I will definitely try it again.

I told everything I did in order to explain all the steps. I don't have an idea what could have caused this.

First the individual dark frames shot the next day after the original. The subject is hard to see, but the fifth one shows the mean stack of those four, and the subject is clearly visible. And the last one is the last actual image with +3.40 stops "exposure" push in Lightroom.


The dark frames, tones strongly compressed.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49900520256_4411f0f74f_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j2xdaw)drk2 (https://flic.kr/p/2j2xdaw) by foppa2009 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34628704@N08/), on Flickr


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49900000693_5cb2abaa8c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j2uxHx)drk4 (https://flic.kr/p/2j2uxHx) by foppa2009 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34628704@N08/), on Flickr


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49900827067_36cf5b509f_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j2yMnn)drk3 (https://flic.kr/p/2j2yMnn) by foppa2009 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34628704@N08/), on Flickr


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49900520316_2e1fc6a17b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j2xdby)drk1 (https://flic.kr/p/2j2xdby) by foppa2009 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34628704@N08/), on Flickr



The mean stack, compressed even more.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49900000668_998e1993d4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j2uxH7)drksum (https://flic.kr/p/2j2uxH7) by foppa2009 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34628704@N08/), on Flickr


And finally the image whose ghost survived overnight  ;D

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49900520231_d9a267651d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j2xda6)brt (https://flic.kr/p/2j2xda6) by foppa2009 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34628704@N08/), on Flickr

Sorry, but I fail to see any connection between your lengthy post and the theme of this thread that I started.    Maybe might have been better if you had just started a new thread with your problem?
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Nikon CCD Sensor Camera (and why)?
Post by: Peter Forsell on May 16, 2020, 18:09:11
Sorry, but I fail to see any connection between your lengthy post and the theme of this thread that I started.    Maybe might have been better if you had just started a new thread with your problem?

You're right, I'm very sorry. Withdrawn.
And it wasn't a problem, but an interesting phenomena, at least to me.
Please forgive me.