NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Krille on March 25, 2020, 14:57:10
-
Hi, read the "Cyclop/Helios topic" with great interest. This and pictures by Birna with
the "Rodenstock TV-Heligon 50mm f/0.75" was really inspiring!!! Thought I needed to
engage in something "new" in these tough days.
Only found a potential seller of a Helios-44 58mm f2 with a converter M39 to Nikon F.
According to the seller the distance between the lens and sensor is to wide, which in reality
means that it is impossible to focus for infinity. He uses a Z6/7 as do I.
Can this be fixed or should I stay away!?
Do you recommend this lens? Something else?
Greatful for advice, Krister
-
Any lens with M42 or M/L39 mount can easily be used on all Z cameras. There are loads of cheap adapters out there. In these dire times perhaps look for a supplier in Europe with the item(s) in stock instead of waiting for deliveries from China.
-
https://richardhaw.com/2017/08/26/autofocus-helios-44-for-nikon-pt2/ :o :o :o
-
Any lens with M42 or M/L39 mount can easily be used on all Z cameras. There are loads of cheap adapters out there. In these dire times perhaps look for a supplier in Europe with the item(s) in stock instead of waiting for deliveries from China.
Will a different adapter solv the Infinity problem??
-
https://richardhaw.com/2017/08/26/autofocus-helios-44-for-nikon-pt2/ :o :o :o
I dont want to interfere with Dr. lens 8)
-
Isn't the Helios originally with M42? If so there is no infinity problem. Just get an M42-Z adapter and fire away.
I do have L39 thread-Z adapters as well, so in either mount version, one should be able to use the Helios to the maximum extent.
-
This Helios is M/L39. But as you use both with no problem
I Will try!
Found only Chinese suppliers but I guess they deliver anyway.
Thanks
-
Get both adapters while you are at it. Plus a basic M42-Z conversion adapter which is very thin; this is for future focusing helicoids and suchlike stuff.
All are cheap so indulge your whims and enjoy the exotic(s).
-
OK! Thanks
-
I use the M42- macro- adapter to Z mount. Because of the macro-part, you can get a lot closer than with a normal adapter. Works perfectly on my Helios Cyclop 100/2 and other M42 Lenses (Voigtlander Color Ultron 50/1.8 and Carl Zeiss Jena - Triotar 135/4 for instance)
-
I use the M42- macro- adapter to Z mount. Because of the macro-part, you can get a lot closer than with a normal adapter. Works perfectly on my Helios Cyclop 100/2 and other M42 Lenses (Voigtlander Color Ultron 50/1.8 and Carl Zeiss Jena - Triotar 135/4 for instance)
This is a very nice feature
If you try Helios at closer than normal distances you will by amazed with the blend of out of focus colors
I show on eBay some modified 58/2 optical systems on a 50 1.8 AFD shells with autofocus and infinity focus but don’t work on Z system
-
the Helios 44 is normally a lens with M42/Pentax register 45,5mm
If you find one with M39, it is the Russian M39 Zenit, 45,2mm, not the Leica L 39 register 28,8mm
The Russian M39 is more or les the same register as M42, so you only need a M39 to M42 step up ring and then use a std M42 adaptor
I f.e. have Helios 1.5 85mm and 2.8 180mm with this M39 thread , that needs the step up rings
Your seller most probably has the wrong adaptor on his Z camera
be aware that since some time people are modding their helios 58mm, because it is a cheap lens, so you might buy a "petzval type" of self destroyed shit
buy from a serious source or from Russia is my proposal
-
OK, thanks all for your advice.
Krister
-
This Helios is M/L39. But as you use both with no problem
I Will try!
Found only Chinese suppliers but I guess they deliver anyway.
Thanks
You can get a M39 to M42 adapter ring for next to nothing, which will allow you to mount it in an M42 adapter.
-
According to some authorities (e.g., http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html ) the Helios 44 uses an M39 mount with a register of 45.2 mm. The later Helios 44-2 has an M42 mount with a working distance of 45.5 mm. Depending on the application the difference in registers may be significant Thus mounting a Helios 44 on a camera with a 45.5 mm register, via the use of a simple M39/M42 adapter ring, means that the furthest subject the lens will focus on is only about 11 m away.
-
Does an adapter exist ….a M42 or M39 adapter where the register can be adjusted a few mm to achieve exact infinity focus?
It would be an adapter with built-in helicoid or another way to "parallel adjust"?
-
Why not.? It is just a matter you can focus over your inifity point. It is not a hard fix at infinity. The important thing is, you can obtain infinity.
-
Better than a fixed adapter anyway is a M42 focusing helicoid such as this. Then get the M42 to Nikon Z adapter ring and Bob's your uncle. This will allow for continuous close focusing to macro distances
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M42-M39-Enlarger-lens-to-M42-Focusing-Helicoid-Adapter-25mm-59mm-US-Seller/264634686105?hash=item3d9d74da99:g:34UAAOSwr05eRyi3
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M42-Lens-Adapter-To-Nikon-Z-Lens-Mount-for-Nikon-Z7-Z6-Camera/153586303309?hash=item23c275014d:g:wAUAAOSwIbFdQX14
-
Maybe slightly off topic, but I have a Russian lens which I think is a Helios - anyway it is a 135mm f/3.5 preset which came with an M42 mount. This can be easily detached and a Russian made Nikon F mount specific to the lens can then be attached in its place - which is what I did with this lens. It works fine.
I believe that there are other Helios lenses that allow one to change the mount from M42 to Nikon F in this manner - it might pay to investigate if this option applies to your lens.
-
Better than a fixed adapter anyway is a M42 focusing helicoid such as this. Then get the M42 to Nikon Z adapter ring and Bob's your uncle. This will allow for continuous close focusing to macro distances
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M42-M39-Enlarger-lens-to-M42-Focusing-Helicoid-Adapter-25mm-59mm-US-Seller/264634686105?hash=item3d9d74da99:g:34UAAOSwr05eRyi3
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M42-Lens-Adapter-To-Nikon-Z-Lens-Mount-for-Nikon-Z7-Z6-Camera/153586303309?hash=item23c275014d:g:wAUAAOSwIbFdQX14
I found a similar M42 to M42 helicoid adapter which I have ordered. I have rings from 39 - 42 …...then I only need a Z-body.....but good to be prepared.
-
Maybe slightly off topic, but I have a Russian lens which I think is a Helios - anyway it is a 135mm f/3.5 preset which came with an M42 mount. This can be easily detached and a Russian made Nikon F mount specific to the lens can then be attached in its place - which is what I did with this lens. It works fine.
I believe that there are other Helios lenses that allow one to change the mount from M42 to Nikon F in this manner - it might pay to investigate if this option applies to your lens.
It will not work with a shorter focal length lens because the mirror will hit the rear element.
-
Maybe slightly off topic, but I have a Russian lens which I think is a Helios - anyway it is a 135mm f/3.5 preset which came with an M42 mount.
It sounds like a Jupiter 37A.
-
Yes thanks for this - I have just checked some images on the Internet and it is definitely a Jupiter 37A. I am jailed up in quarantine in NZ due to NZ's COVID-19 lockdown, so cannot check the lens itself.
It sounds like a Jupiter 37A.
-
Any lens with M42 or M/L39 mount can easily be used on all Z cameras. There are loads of cheap adapters out there. In these dire times perhaps look for a supplier in Europe with the item(s) in stock instead of waiting for deliveries from China.
Why do you want to buy the heavy and sub par Helios 44 58mm f2 when you can get the original Zeiss Biotar 58mm f2 for USD200 ish.
At least get the Helios 40 85/1.5 which is a much better lens than the 44.
-
Just found and started with the 44 58mm f2 (40 dollar). Now waiting for some converters so that
I can start on my new journey which will include other "exotic" lenses 8)
Thanks for your input
-
Why do you want to buy the heavy and sub par Helios 44 58mm f2 when you can get the original Zeiss Biotar 58mm f2 for USD200 ish.
At least get the Helios 40 85/1.5 which is a much better lens than the 44.
A good copy of Helios 44M (latest model) costs 40-50€ here in France. My sample like new gives good results from 2,8 and very good from 4-5,6. Biotar may be better but costs much more and you must be lucky to findd a like new sample !
My experience with the 1,5/85 Cyclop (same optics than Helios 40 but without aperture control) was not so good: heavy, fast aperture but not very easy to use nor very good wide open...
Here two examples (of my 2/58 Helios 44M) with Fuji XE2 ("velvia" rendition):
-
Just got a F-mount-adapted Helios 44M, focussing to infinity thanks to a printed plastic part. A very good job; the lens came 100% clean and dust-free, although the barrel shows signs of usage and focussing action is on the stiff side.
The lens is astounding or, at any rate, better than its so-so reputation. Center sharpness is excellent (even at full aperture), but the field may not be that flat. There is vanishingly little LoCA (!!!) which is quite valuable to my eyes. Unfortunately, I got no time for reports now, too busy, but expect some shots under the "December 2020" thread.
-
I am sure that you are going to have excellent results, I already used in my D750 and the combination is super, I got pictures with character 8) unlike the new super corrected lenses that luck it
-
By some coincidence, I also got the Helios 81H (50/2) today. A very different look&feel; while the 58/2 reminds me (externally) of main battle tank optics from the sixties, the 50/2 is a real AI lens with smooth focussing action and better finish. Concerning the optical qualities, we'll see.
I could already get some taste of the "whirly bokeh" by the 58/2. And also massive flare (for night shots, the best contrast is obtained at f/2.8 ) and coma... a daytime lens for sure.
-
Just some very recent examples on crop z50 / Hellios 58/2
The first is F2 , second F4 and last is F4 on 85/1.8G :)
On FX the Swirly bokeh can shown better
-
I just found my D750 Hellios photos and as I see now I have to come back to FF again 8)
all photos shot on f2 nef conversions on NX-D with no correction
-
Beautiful shots. I can also provide ugly ones, for instance (Df, Helios 44M, f/2.8, shot a dusk) :
-
Thank you, you have time to work with, you also have Df that matches very much with the lens
these are not within the normal focusing distance, most of times I use m42 adaptors to get closer, so the out of focus areas are more pleasant :)
I am thinking to change from D750 to Z5, I see sensors are very similar
-
Helios 81 N (50/2), an AI lens. Less quirky than the HE44 (58/2), with a less pronounced swirly bokeh but otherwise a better lens, except for the geometric distortion which is nearly nil on the HE44.
Here I tested it for night shots, so forget about bokeh. the HE 81 is not ideal but still usable under such circumstances. Shot today (well, yesterday) using the Df. Marked halos around point light sources have a fixed size, independent from aperture. Halos aside, performance is OK and contrast does not drop too much.
-
Second batch from the same session.
-
Last batch. This street near the old ramparts (rue de Gand) consists in restaurants and bars. They are all closed (COVID), otherwise the street would be packed full.
-
Seems good but nothing special to my eyes, I like 35 post mostly :)
I just discovered that I also have Hellios-81 50mm on Nikon F mound with a Kiev 19 film body that i kept as a back up for my Nikon film cameras FM, F2AS
a quick shot on the same object on f2 with d750 and the same color profile at the shorter focusing distance. Hellios 44-2 is 58mm thus the difference in magnification plus the difference in flange distance
First photo is Hellios 44-2 58mm already posted in Dec 20 thread
-
Nothing special indeed. The He 81 is usable but night shots are for others to beautify (esp. Zeiss 35/2 or 50/2).
The He 81 is sharper than the He 44, but bokeh is less magic - less whirl, more outlining, but funny anyway.
He 44 is rather mushy in the corners, where it becomes usable at f/4 and decent at f/5.6. This is no field curvature issue: I checked in LiveView, and adjusting the focus for the corners is barely necessary and does not bring much extra sharpness. The He 81 is much more even.
-
Yes I totally agree 81 is nothing special just a good lens as Nikons 50 1.8 MF
At the other end 44-2 is softer wide open with this magic swirly bokeh that i like a lot!
I also have Kaleinar 100/2.8 on Nikon mount a good and relative small lens but my 105/2.5 is better, i have to check it on digital
-
Df, HE 81N wide open. A casual portrait, without mask(!)
I find the combination of high central sharpness with mildly swirly (but soft) bokeh very convincing.
-
Another example of a really nice background :
-
I like the night shots Airy, very specially the last one in the last batch: _DFC6364.jpg I find you took advantage of the lens and created and capture an amazing ambiance and place for stories. Ole
-
Another example of a really nice background :
This is interesting I will give a try :)
-
Great shots Airy with that lens,
Love especially _DFC6347.jpg because of the look of a 'miniature' and its emptiness.
-
I also love the night shots. 6347 is my favorite!