NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Bear Dale on March 03, 2020, 00:07:33

Title: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Bear Dale on March 03, 2020, 00:07:33
Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?

How do you like the Z7?
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Tristin on March 03, 2020, 07:23:18
Hey Bear, while i haven't gone D850 -> Z7, I did try going D750 -> Z6, so I do feel i have some insight that would have meaning.

There were two things the Z brought that were improvements.  IBIS and, surprisingly for me, the EVF.  It's much easier to see what you are doing in low light and zooming in is incredible for manual focus.  Those were the only real benefits I noticed after going D750 -> Z6 after a month of solid use.  To be fair, those improvements were absolutely huge in the right circumstances.  Video is far better, if that matters.

Downsides are reduced Dynamic Range due to banding and inferior body control.  I have heard Z6/Z7 AF-C isn't quite up to par with the DSLRs as well, but I don't have any AF lenses. 

As it seems that you focus on birding in daylight, I'd be hard pressed to see advantages in the Z7 over the D850 besides wider AF coverage in your case, in all honesty.  I'm guessing you already use VR lenses, so I'm not sure how much benefit you'd gain from IBIS, and I can't imagine the EVF being better for daytime birding.  While zooming in for focus is effective, it is certainly too sluggish for use in shooting wildlife.  The current Zs are slower cameras in operation than the DSLRs are in general.  If I shared your taste in subjects, I'd be waiting for a Z body to come long with proper controls and a non-sluggish EVF at a minimum. 
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: John Geerts on March 03, 2020, 07:47:00
I did.

The main question should be: Would you have chosen the Z7 over the D850  presuming  they both were available.?


For me the question can be answered as 'Yes', also fed with the experience of extensive use with the Z 6.

As Image quality between the D850 and Z7 should not really be different (given the sensors), the handling of the camera is the main reason.  Seize, Weight, IBIS, Focus Peaking,  100% viewfinder zoom during Focus,  and the practical use of the Electronic Viewfinder in combination the back screen are my main motivations.  They all can lead to a better outcome.

Plus the Nikon Z-mount is very attractive to use with other non-native lenses as the flange distance is very short.  On top of that   I like the combination with the  faster Z 6. 

Nikon's permanent Firmware releases is also an important matter. The camera is now, with all the updates, better and different, especially on the AF  and handling.

I do not recognize Tristin's drawbacks regarding the reduced Dynamic Range concerning banding.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: longzoom on March 03, 2020, 07:58:05
John, I couldn't be agree more, with every world, without any reservation! LZ
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Tristin on March 03, 2020, 08:28:58
I do not recognize Tristin's drawbacks regarding the reduced Dynamic Range concerning banding.


It only becomes visible when lifting shadows and is an artifact of PDAF, I doubt it would ever be an issue with daytime birding. 

It's unlikely you'll notice it unless you've gotten used to taking advantage of recent Nikon DSLR's clean shadows for increased DR by under-exposing RAWs for later correction. The Zs don't have poor DR at all, just not effectively as wide as the DSLRs. 
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: John Geerts on March 03, 2020, 08:42:42


It only becomes visible when lifting shadows and is an artifact of PDAF, I doubt it would ever be an issue with daytime birding. 

It's unlikely you'll notice it unless you've gotten used to taking advantage of recent Nikon DSLR's clean shadows for increased DR by under-exposing RAWs for later correction. The Zs don't have poor DR at all, just not effectively as wide as the DSLRs.
Thanks for the elaboration, Tristin.  I didn't notice it in my night shots, but I must admit that I did not heavily under-expose.   Did an firmware upgrade not solve it (partly)?
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 03, 2020, 08:49:40
I added a Z6 to my photo bag, using D500 and D800, and before that D200 and D700.
I and not amused with the user interface, but otherwise the camera works fine and the AF is ok for sports photos.
The exposure meter like snow much better than my D500/800, it is more like my D700. Less work on correcting exposure in PP.
It is nice to be able to se the outcome in the viewfinder before you press the shutter, that is a benefit.
Did take a lot of night pictures, but I did not have any problems with the picture quality.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: PeterN on March 03, 2020, 11:40:00
Bear,
My experience is based on switching from D750 to Z6 (I did not need the High resolution sensors because I mainly use the Nikons for events).
There are pros and cons to both (dslr and mirrorless) systems. It is my understanding from Photography Life that the AF accuracy of the Z system is superior. Personally I did not have accuracy issues with both systems. Switching between various AF tracking modes is easier with the dslr because it has a separate button.
 Personally I do not have other issues with the controls like Tristin has or with the user interface like Bent has. I also did not experience the banding issue Tristin mentions.
My main problem with the Z system is the lag time between waking the system and making the shot. During events you need to be able to raise the camera and shoot immediately. On several occasions I missed the moment with the Z. I guess this can be mitigated by adapting the shooting style (i.e. slightly press the shutter when raising the camera; changing settings did not help)Nevertheless, I know of at least one professional photographer switched back to the dslr for this reason.
The main advantage of the Z system is the ability to zoom via the EVF. This definitely helps with manual focus andwith PC-E lenses. Another advantage is that the Z lenses are apparently “better” (whatever “better” means).
If you would ask mewhat I would do in your situation, I would say that I would keep using the D850. I think it balances better withthe long lenses you have and AF tracking seems to be still better with the D850. The writeoff will be substantial. In addition, a 60MP successor of the Z7 is rumored for this year. Adding a Z7 might be an option to benefit from the advantages of both systems. A D5/D6 might also be a possibility ;-)

1addition: I just saw in a video that the autofocus of F/G lenses with the FTZ adapter can be (so not always) less reliable. I can’t confirm or deny. Others might
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Tristin on March 03, 2020, 20:06:55
Personally I do not have other issues with the controls like Tristin has...

Change the Drive or Meter Mode on your Z body ;)
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Roland Vink on March 03, 2020, 21:07:30
It's always good to look at new products to see if they do the job better, plenty of good responses here.

Maybe a better question to ask is how your current setup does not work for you? Is there anything about your kit which prevents you getting the pictures you want, or the results are less than optimal? If you can identify anything here it should help you to determine if there is something else which will do a better job. Your portfolio is already outstanding, you may realise that your current kit is actually a good fit and you don't really need anything else (nothing wrong with looking at new gear though :) ) Or that your money is better spent on a new lens instead (eg replace your 200-500 with the 500PF). Also keep in mind that every kit is a compromise, for example the 200-500 has the flexibility of a zoom, the 500PF is smaller and sharper but is a prime, the extra speed of the 500/4 is useful for low light and DOF control but is much heavier and more expensive. Similarly there are trade-offs with DSLRs vs mirrorless...
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: chambeshi on March 04, 2020, 11:22:57
Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?

How do you like the Z7?

The similar sensor specifications hide quite different cameras. After shooting the Z7 since Oct 2018, it's become very clear the advantages of the Z7 are the wysiwyg EVF and silent shutter primarily. The obviation of AFFT also eclipses a lot of fussy fiddling. There is no better FX camera for landscapes IMHO (especially with 14-30 f4S). Although Firmware v2.0 and v3.0 recently  improved aspects of the AFC, the Z Nikons are not in the same league for action that we depend on with the prosumer DSLRs. And, the Nikon triumvirate is top tier for AFC (D5, D500, D850), but IME compared to the Z7 a D750 has more dependable AFC. The achilles heel of the Z AFC is its all too common bug of the focus grabbing on to the background, unless the subject dominates the frame. Wide-S seems to be a bit better than Single-point in this respect, but too often the Z AFC misses opportunities that a DSLR would grab. This is true with key challenges in most wildlife genres (macro excluded obviously where the Z7 gives nice advantages).

Nikon have persistently failed to update the Custom settings in the Z6 and Z7 to include essential D850 features. The inability to set Fn to AF-ON+Focus mode is a showstopper for action genres. And in any case, back in mid-2018 FW upgrades of all these top tier prosumer Nikons should have enabled the Recall Shooting Functions that's become standard on the D5. Such straightforward fixes will only sell Nikon more cameras: so everybody wins  ;)  ;)

Don't underestimate the advantages of Silent-shooting for sensitive subjects. I have found this a big advantage for shy carnivores and often birds too. A Z7 + 500 PF or 300 PF+TC14 III is nicely compact and handy. I often use Z7 with the 300 PF+TC17. The Z gives you the wider focus point coverage even @f8 (and even @f11!). This chance image [appended] represents yet another of those ideas in progress. Taken across a river at too great a distance: shooting through vegetation, as the massive croc submerged smoothly and swiftly into the sinister depths. Even cropped, it shows what the Z can deliver at the right time and place - shooting 500 PF+TC17 II fully open at f9.5...where a DSLR would struggle.

I continue to shoot the D850 and Z7 in tandem. The FTZ works very well with all the AFS F-Nikkors. Here's hoping the D780 portends an upgraded D850..... The synthesis of the choice bits of Z MILC (ie Z7 sensor with PDAF) and D6 AF engine :-) To move my wallet, a FX upgrade / new model in the Z system must bring truly excellent AFC with all key pro custom options.


 
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Bear Dale on March 05, 2020, 07:13:26
Thank you one and all for you replies, very much appreciated reading them all.

The Z7 seems very attractive to me, I would also like to get the 500mm PF lens.

Most likely if I buy the Z7 the Z8 will be announced within a week and if I buy the 500mm PF lens the rumoured 600mm PF will also be announced :)

Looking through LR, almost 100% of my 200-500mm shots are taken at 500mm, so the 500mm PF would be a weight saving for me.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: ColinM on March 05, 2020, 19:18:20
Fascinating group of useful real world experiences here.
Any more?
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Bear Dale on March 11, 2020, 09:27:49
Just bought a Nikon Z7 for AUD $3,698.00 (USD $2,404.00) and Nikon Australia have a special where they throw in a bonus free Z 50mm F1.8 Lens valued at AUD $999 (USD $596.95) and also a free AUD $280.00 Nikon XQD card, so feels like a pretty good deal.

Also treated myself after going through the bushfires in January and the flood in February to a Nikkor 500mm PF.

Probably means with this discounting that a Z8 is likely to be announced soon!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Erik Lund on March 11, 2020, 11:03:26
Shooting D850, tried Z7 a couple of times, I don't like the EVF, seeing a delayed digital version of reality stopped down is not for my liking especially with sharp wide angel lenses, zooming in and out focus peaking is tiresome.
The tine Z camera is not for my big hands as well.
The D850 is a nice size, I have the option to have the grip with battery power to shoot thousands of images or hours of video, or leave it off for a walk in the park.
The above 'results that could not have been done with a DSLR D850' Sorry I simply can't relate to that - I could have shot any of the above with my D850 - It has all the features, not exactly the same but for sure just as good and in most cases heaps better.
For a few applications I can see a Z is nice like the short focal plane distance. But not for me.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Mike G on March 11, 2020, 12:34:05
I have read this topic eagerly and I’m finding that I don’t agree with Tristin at all he seems to be getting old information!
Although I’m a Z6 geezer I’m pretty sure they are practically the same. Compared to my previous Nikon experience(D70s D200 D300 D700 D800 D810) the Z6 shines with its handling and the lenses are really super, so I cannot accept all of the criticism of the Z6/Z7, as a new system it will require some firmware tweaking surely a good thing! Mirrorless is different from a DSLR and so IMHO Nikon have so far made a damn good fist of it!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Erik Lund on March 11, 2020, 13:20:40
I completely agree Mike!I'm very impressed by the Z6 and Z7, the images are just wonderful and they already have a very nice line up of Z lenses of very high performance ;)
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Mike G on March 11, 2020, 13:37:58
So right Erik, and that lens stable is getting larger almost by the month. I am astonished by the Z lenses and their quality!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: CS on March 11, 2020, 17:18:19
I have yet to see anyone sing the praises of the two Z50 lenses. So far, Nikon has not released any that offer the speed equivalent of those for the Z6 and Z7.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: bobfriedman on March 12, 2020, 11:17:41
I purchased a mint used Z7 and returned it in one day. the build quality and lack of features present on the D8XX series disappointed me. while the live view was nice it will not replace my D850. 

my main reason for the purchase was macro using live view. also, I would never use the Z7 for wildlife, etc.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Luc on March 12, 2020, 13:06:00
I have yet to see anyone sing the praises of the two Z50 lenses. So far, Nikon has not released any that offer the speed equivalent of those for the Z6 and Z7.
Nikon Z6 and Z7 were introduced in August 2018, the Z50 in December 2019. That's about 19 months and so far about 12 lenses are introduced. I think that's more than ok for a new system. All Z FX lenses have been tested very good to excellent. The general opinion in reviews of the DX 16-50mm and 50-200mm for the Z50 is they're both very good performing lenses for the money and optically better than their comparable F-mount counterparts.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 12, 2020, 15:01:55
I purchased a mint used Z7 and returned it in one day. the build quality and lack of features present on the D8XX series disappointed me. while the live view was nice it will not replace my D850. 

my main reason for the purchase was macro using live view. also, I would never use the Z7 for wildlife, etc.

Well one day to learn a new camera may be on the short side ;)
I agree with the complaint about user interface, I also like the Dxxx interface much better, but it is manageable. I have actually used the Z6 for sports, and it may not be as a D500, but the results where OK.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Mike G on March 12, 2020, 16:20:37
Nikon Z6 and Z7 were introduced in August 2018, the Z50 in December 2019. That's about 19 months and so far about 12 lenses are introduced. I think that's more than ok for a new system. All Z FX lenses have been tested very good to excellent. The general opinion in reviews of the DX 16-50mm and 50-200mm for the Z50 is they're both very good performing lenses for the money and optically better than their comparable F-mount counterparts.
I agree with Luc totally. What are the complaints regarding the user interface? What’s not right with the interface? Why not tell us the details of the complaints? I’m seeing lots of moans and very little substance!
But at least the interface can be altered by firmware updates. The AF has recently been massively updated recently!
I’ve been through over the last three years three different systems, Fujifilm, Lumix and now back to a Nikon system, so come on chaps put a little meat onto the groans please!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 12, 2020, 16:26:16
Well the interface works, but it is different from the pro-interface found on the Dxxx cameras,
The 2x4 banks used on the Dxxx cameras is more versatile and can named so one can remember what they do.
I personally like the Dxxx interface better, that’s not that I can’t work with the U1 to U3 interface ;)
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: John Geerts on March 12, 2020, 16:34:26
The 2x4 banks used on the Dxxx cameras is more versatile and can named so one can remember what they do.
It's just what you are used too.

Personally, I find those banks a complete black-hole disaster in a non-logical set-up.  So I always neglected them.

I use the U- style profiles however, that makes more sense.  A quick change of settings for Pano/Macro and Portraits.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: CS on March 12, 2020, 17:38:34
Nikon Z6 and Z7 were introduced in August 2018, the Z50 in December 2019. That's about 19 months and so far about 12 lenses are introduced. I think that's more than ok for a new system. All Z FX lenses have been tested very good to excellent. The general opinion in reviews of the DX 16-50mm and 50-200mm for the Z50 is they're both very good performing lenses for the money and optically better than their comparable F-mount counterparts.

Did I miss images from the new Z DX lenses, along with their praises, posted here on NG?
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 12, 2020, 17:45:38
I purchased a mint used Z7 and returned it in one day. the build quality and lack of features present on the D8XX series disappointed me. while the live view was nice it will not replace my D850. 

my main reason for the purchase was macro using live view. also, I would never use the Z7 for wildlife, etc.

I was very disappointed with the Z6 when I bought it.
It didn't feel right, and viewfinder was confusing/disappointing.
It took me about a month using side by side with a DF to come to love it.
Now I can't go back...
Maybe you can try again when Z8 comes out.

D850 is still a very good camera. If it does what you want, then no need to change.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: ColinM on March 12, 2020, 17:46:53
... the images are just wonderful and
they already have a very nice line up of Z lenses of very high performance ;)

I'm not up to speed with the roadmap, but my main interest is in lenses over 200mm (and where possible, primes)

So it's great to hear how good the Z lenses are, and that the FTZ adapter allows continuity.
However this feels something I'd like to see progress on before the end of 2020, not some years into the future. Sadly it seems the only imminent ones will be zooms.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Mike G on March 12, 2020, 18:09:05
I'm not up to speed with the roadmap, but my main interest is in lenses over 200mm (and where possible, primes)

So it's great to hear how good the Z lenses are, and that the FTZ adapter allows continuity.
However this feels something I'd like to see progress on before the end of 2020, not some years into the future. Sadly it seems the only imminent ones will be zooms.
Colin, with the FTZ adapter one can use super telephoto lenses, I’m reading good things about the 500mm PF lens which I’m led to believe is a lightweight and powerful telephoto, and that’s just one adapted long lens, along with plenty of others! It would be naive to expect a complete stable of lenses on day one, which is why the FTZ was made at launch!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Luc on March 12, 2020, 22:20:20
Did I miss images from the new Z DX lenses, along with their praises, posted here on NG?
To my knowledge of the active NG members only Birna owns a Z50 and occasionally posts about it. But lots of info can of course be found on the www.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: bobfriedman on March 12, 2020, 22:55:23
Well one day to learn a new camera may be on the short side ;)
I agree with the complaint about user interface, I also like the Dxxx interface much better, but it is manageable. I have actually used the Z6 for sports, and it may not be as a D500, but the results where OK.

actually it was 3 hours. and that's all it took.

I need a professional build quality camera and I would say that I am hoping that the next generation of Nikon mirrorless heads in that direction

with a 10-pin connector too!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: CS on March 12, 2020, 23:33:01
To my knowledge of the active NG members only Birna owns a Z50 and occasionally posts about it. But lots of info can of course be found on the www.


m
My
point was that nobody here is shooting with either of those lenses.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 12, 2020, 23:35:50
I got my Z50 because they sold it packaged with FTZ for a very tempting price, and I was in dire need for yet another FTZ. I didn't buy any of the DX-Z lenses as I only use the Z50 with small lenses from the rangefinder era, or other exotica.

The camera itself is cute and quite capable, although I do miss a few features. it appears to be more rugged than the equivalents in the F-mount line, though. Plus its finder is in another league altogether.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: MILLIREHM on March 12, 2020, 23:43:08
I have got a D850 (besides other SLR) and i decided to go for a Z6 instead of a Z7 which is no replacement for the D850. Had I bought a Z7 it would not be either. Electronic viewfinder ist great in low light but i prefer OVF under daylight conditions. The U1-U3 menues are a nuissance (can't assign PSAM via menu for instance) besides other interface weaknesses (such as the inability to assign switch between single and coninuous shooting to a function button and impossibility to configure the wheel full f-stops.

For supertele bird shots Z cameras AF is not competitive with D850, D4S/D5, D500 ...
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Nasos Kosmas on March 13, 2020, 06:43:23

For supertele bird shots Z cameras AF is not competitive with D850, D4S/D5, D500 ...

Is there any change with the  new firmware 3.0 ?
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Macro_Cosmos on March 13, 2020, 10:18:15
I did go from the higher resolution D810 to a Z6 and I'm pretty happy with the Z6, mostly the ergonomics.

What I like
- Most of my subjects are still, so I can care less about the viewfinder lag. I like the zoom feature of the evf, I have it bound to a function button.
- Full electronic shutter works great for my studio microscopy stuff
- I don't need anything above 24MP unless there's pixel shift
- Filter stack of the Z6 is something like 0.7mm, it produces crisper images
- S-line lenses

What I don't like
- Camera seems to sharpen the raw images
- I've seen many debayering errors when shooting resolution charts
- PDAF points show up when I pull the shadows out in a drastic manner

What I don't care about
- IBIS
- Single card slot
- No functional grip
- Focus peaking

Can't elaborate on the rest. The other benefits can all be seen on a D850.

810 on top and Z6 on bottom. You can see very clear grey hazy wave patterns.
Second image is from RawDigger, you can see all the individual pixel errors.
Third at 100%, so please don't tell me it's only pixel peeping.

This was 1.0 firmware, I purchased the Z6 used. Not sure about 3.0 which I've just updated the firmware to.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: MILLIREHM on March 17, 2020, 22:36:37
Is there any change with the  new firmware 3.0 ?

Did not actually have time to install it and of course not even testing it.

I dont assume that it will do any changes. Eye tracking wont work on birds and BTW i find 3d Tracking useless on SLR, same as using a high  number of focusing fields. For me Single choice AF field or Group AF (together with AF-ON technique) gives the best results to me.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on March 18, 2020, 13:08:46
Did not actually have time to install it and of course not even testing it.

I dont assume that it will do any changes. Eye tracking wont work on birds and BTW i find 3d Tracking useless on SLR, same as using a high  number of focusing fields. For me Single choice AF field or Group AF (together with AF-ON technique) gives the best results to me.

Even if you don't use the subject identification and tracking, there may be autofocus improvements in FW 3.0 that affect the results of shooting moving subjects (some users report this). So it's probably worth installing the FW.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: MILLIREHM on March 18, 2020, 13:48:08
Even if you don't use the subject identification and tracking, there may be autofocus improvements in FW 3.0 that affect the results of shooting moving subjects (some users report this). So it's probably worth installing the FW.
Dont misunderstand me. I guess this Update IS useful (despite i am not expecting to transform the Z6 into the pro-SLR league AF-wise. I have downloaded it already and will install it soon. Work kept me just too busy the last weeks. Current shutdown raises the chances to find time (but not for testing).
 
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Ethan on March 18, 2020, 13:49:25
I have both a D850 and a Z7.

I use the D850 for studio shoots and the Z7 for mobility shoots.

I don't fancy either bodies as I mainly shoot portrait/vertical orientation which is a wrist twister with the Z7 and the D850 battery pack is useless.

The Z7 was going to be binned because of the poor low light focusing. The situation changed with the latest upgrade 3.0 which seems to work better with non S lenses.

I still prefer the D4s and the D5 and of course the D3s.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on March 18, 2020, 15:56:15
the D850 battery pack is useless.

Why is it useless? I use it quite a lot and haven't noticed any problems other than once the body battery contact circuit broke and I had to get it repaired to be able to continue to use the battery in the accessory grip.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Mike G on March 25, 2020, 21:17:02
I don’t understand the dilemma and angst around the single card slot, in all my years of using memory cards CF, SD, and now XQD cards have I have never had a corrupt file, let alone a corrupted card! I can’t think of a single instance of needing two card slots except for playing around!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on March 25, 2020, 22:24:39
I don’t understand the dilemma and angst around the single card slot, in all my years of using memory cards CF, SD, and now XQD cards have I a corrupt file, let alone a corrupted card! I can’t think of a single instance of needing two card slots except for playing around!

I have had two SD cards fail to be recognized by the camera (after some time of working fine) and could not get them working again, but I didn't lose any images. A third SD card showed corrupted files when I was transferring images from laptop to desktop by using it as temporary storage, but I had copies of the files elsewhere. I had corruption on a memory stick pro card on my video camera which led to loss of an important video recording at work. So quite a few cases of card failure, but only one instance of serious loss of data.

But I never lost any images or got any errors on CF or XQD cards, and I've used them far more than the others.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Anthony on March 26, 2020, 00:17:13
I don’t understand the dilemma and angst around the single card slot, in all my years of using memory cards CF, SD, and now XQD cards have I a corrupt file, let alone a corrupted card! I can’t think of a single instance of needing two card slots except for playing around!

The only time I have benefitted from having two cards was when shooting action at multiple frames per second, and having the camera seamlessly flow from slot 1 to slot 2.  But I knew the camera would do this.  If there had been only one slot, I would have replaced the card before the need for overflow arose.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Mike G on March 26, 2020, 09:18:00
I agree Anthony, I think its a perceived problem rather than actual problem!
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Jacques on March 26, 2020, 10:22:43
I have be fortunate in that I have never experienced any car failures, staying loyal to Nikon I have mainly been using CF Cards in the D100, D200, D700, D800, D800e before changing to XQD in my current D850.
I can understand the concerns of photographers who are covering one off events weddings immediately come to mind when there is no second  chance should the photographer get back to his computer and find a card problem has resulted in corrupted image files.
I ceased wedding photography before quality digital cameras became available at an affordable price, there was similar concerns having exposed 6 rolls of 120 film, they were sent off to the lab and the wait to see if I had made a competent job a week later, now I am purely a leisure photographer, both card slots have a card installed but I would be annoyed if for whatever reason the image files were corrupt
It is unlikely I’ll part with my D850, I tried and struggled with the electronic viewfinder, that is probably a ‘ me ‘ issue rather than a camera issue, I would have given the Z system greater consideration had there been a reduction in the lens size, I am sure the new lens are optically better due to more recent designs etc but at a quick glance the lens look like there has been a spacer added at the rear of the lens,  resulting in a more compact body but out of proportion lens.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 26, 2020, 10:36:35
A side remark: most of the new Z lenses  have glass all the way, down to the rear mount. Sometimes the rear element is almost flush to the bayonet. The Z bodies have moved the sensor planer to the front thus obtaining their very short register distance (16mm).

A physical long optical construction facilitates high quality with fewer elements and/or less refractive, ie. thinner and lighter, glass.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Eddie Draaisma on March 26, 2020, 11:28:43
Comparing D850 with a 50/1.8AFS to a Z6/7 with the 50/1.8S it is instructive to observe the sensor plane  location marks (white circle with horizontal line through it).

https://j.mp/2Nb0RLE

It is clear that the distance from the marker to the front of the lens is actually shorter for the Z; but there is definitely more body space in the Z behind the marker (containing IBIS mechanism etc).
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 26, 2020, 13:36:23
Another way of putting this is saying the Z has the overhang of the finder to the rear and the DSLRs to the front.

The main comment on the lenses is that the Z designs does *not* add space to the rear of the lens.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Mike G on March 26, 2020, 14:05:52
Another way of putting this is saying the Z has the overhang of the finder to the rear and the DSLRs to the front.

The main comment on the lenses is that the Z designs does *not* add space to the rear of the lens.
Birna, I’m really pleased with the Z6 EVF and really appreciate the rear overhang, I always had big problems with the D viewfinders which was one of the reasons I went over to Fujifilm. I used to think the Panasonic EVF was the bees knees but after seeing the Z EVF I was smitten. I’m still leaving nose prints on the rear screen.  :)
Perhaps though Nikon could come up with a system to omit all but the shooting info! Not sure if that is presently possible? Or maybe even customisable EVF + rear screen?
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Eddie Draaisma on March 26, 2020, 14:22:02
Another way of putting this is saying the Z has the overhang of the finder to the rear and the DSLRs to the front.

The main comment on the lenses is that the Z designs does *not* add space to the rear of the lens.

That lens comment is valid, no doubt about that.

The Z overhang at the backside however is not only finder, it is body also. Easy to see by making a picture of the linked site view, and vertically aligning the sensor plane markers by moving down the Z. (The site is copyrighted, otherwise I would link such a picture that I made for myself).

So with these lenses the Z effectively "feels" longer than the D850, and the increased length "seems" to be in the lens.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Jacques on March 26, 2020, 14:35:11
I am aware that the whole of the lens barrel is optically necessary that is why I said at first glance ! Maybe I was wrong in anticipating that the new lens would be scaled down in proportion to the body ? I suppose my ideal scenario would be a Nikon version of a Leica M, a mirrorless DF ? I am old school and know I will be out of step with what most people want but I would prefer less tech, my photography enjoyment comes from using my knowledge and experience in decision making.
Title: Re: Anyone gone from a D850 to Z7?
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 26, 2020, 15:43:05
I am aware that the whole of the lens barrel is optically necessary that is why I said at first glance ! Maybe I was wrong in anticipating that the new lens would be scaled down in proportion to the body ? I suppose my ideal scenario would be a Nikon version of a Leica M, a mirrorless DF ? I am old school and know I will be out of step with what most people want but I would prefer less tech, my photography enjoyment comes from using my knowledge and experience in decision making.

The Z50 with the 16-50 zoom makes a pretty small package when lens is retracted. The roadmap for the other Z lenses shows 28mm and 40mm "compact prime" lenses to be announced, so I think Nikon will try to meet you somewhere in the middle. What they learned from the DF is that some people will pay for that sort of photography experience (I have one) but not very many people. I think that is why they are trying to make Z system with as few compromises to form factor as possible. They worked on making their best lenses ever instead of the smallest lenses. They worked on great video instead of a single purpose still camera. They want Z line to be a step forward instead of a set of compromises. Of course there are always compromises. Battery life is one.