NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => What the Nerds Do => Topic started by: the solitaire on March 02, 2020, 20:02:14

Title: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 02, 2020, 20:02:14
When I spend too much time in the car, I start thinking about things like photography.

One of these thoughts went a bit like this:

I really like the 55mm f3,5 micro Nikkor, but one of the main limiting factors for me is the short focal length.
Ideally I'd use a micro lens with a focal length between 100 and 150mm.

Of course there are plenty of very usable 105mm micro Nikkors doing just that but....

Could there be a way to do something less usual and for instance get similar good results from a 135mm f5,6 EL Nikkor on a bellows?
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bill De Jager on March 04, 2020, 02:07:08
Enlarging lenses can be a cheap way to get macro capability, but on the other hand a used 105mm Ai/AIS macro may not cost much more depending on which enlarging lens you're comparing it to.  For enlarging lenses, don't forget the additional cost for a BR2A reverse mounting adapter if you're using a Nikon bellows.

Enlarging lenses are optimized for flat-field reproduction and for operating at a magnification range you're use them with in an enlarger.  They're not optimized for focus - to - out-of-focus transitions or bokeh.  On the other hand, if you're going to focus stack then they might be a reasonable choice, though focus stacking will need to be manual.

Here's an example with the El-Nikkor 135mm f/5.6.  The lens was reverse mounted to better approximate the correct magnification range.  The working distance was wonderful, but the aesthetics are not as good as other lenses I've recently been using to photograph these flowers. 

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49615953686_df17312810_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iAoJrm)
El-Nikkor 135mm (https://flic.kr/p/2iAoJrm) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 04, 2020, 21:35:29
Thank you for the reply Bill.

Thing is, I do shoot quite  afew close-ups. Not exactly 1:1 magnification. More like 1:2 to 1:4.

I find the 105mm a bit short. The field of view is too wide still, but the 200 is too long by quite a margin. Something in between would be ideal, like 135mm.

Since I did not find lenses with a sharpness and contrast like the 55mm micro Nikkor or 60mm micro Nikkor and the focal length providing the desired field of view, I'm exploring options really.

Something else that appeals going that route is that I can add scheimpflug corrections when using a DIY bellows setup.

Another lens I have been thinking about is the 135mm f3,5 Nikkor-Q for the Bronica S2, but I have no clue on how that lens would perform on the D800. That lens owuld also require building a bellows to fit it on an F mount
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 04, 2020, 22:22:25
The venerable Bellows-Nikkor 135mm f/4 Q springs to mind. Put it on a field-capable short Novoflex bellows with focusing rail and you are good to go, with magnifications to 1:2 or better depending on what version of lens and what system is attached to the rear of the bellows device. It goes to infinity if you wish to use it for landscapes.

The Bellows 135/4 has a silky-smooth bokeh thanks to the many aperture blades keeping the aperture circular at any setting. Specular highlights are rendered circular.

There are two main versions, the first being the original for the rangefinder Nikon (S-mount), the other basically is the same optics mounted in a long sleeve to allow it to couple directly to the F mount.

The lens is not hard to source on eBay or similar arenas.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 04, 2020, 23:19:46
But may be a bit pricey  :)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 05, 2020, 00:22:39
I've seen them down to approx. USD 100. I have both RF and F mount versions and the RF was the cheapest :).

The optics of the 135/3.5 Nikkor-Q is similar, but not identical. The objective itself can be extracted from the lens casing and put on a bellows.

Getting a Sigma 150/2.8 is of course the easy way out if the focal range 135-150mm is of main interest. It will be much easier to use in the field than any device based upon bellows. Image quality should surpass the old bellows solutions as well.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Thomas Stellwag on March 05, 2020, 00:54:55
the Apo Rodagon  5.6   150mm  might be as well a candidate for you
I even used a f9 apo from them and results were good on bellows
there are so many good and not expensive lenses if you search for Schneider and Rodenstock enlarger series
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bill De Jager on March 05, 2020, 02:18:40
I love my Sigma 180/2.8 macro, but it wasn't cheap even used.  Great image quality and ergonomics, though.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Frank Fremerey on March 05, 2020, 07:23:48
not cheap although used only and with a bit of luck you might find the Apo Macro ED large format series of Nikkors interesting. I love my 5.6/120 and have heared great things about the 210mm too
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Fons Baerken on March 05, 2020, 09:41:17
http://mkoptics.net/a/product_info.php?cPath=22_27&products_id=6943 (http://mkoptics.net/a/product_info.php?cPath=22_27&products_id=6943)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 05, 2020, 10:22:12
Interesting shop :)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Fons Baerken on March 05, 2020, 11:51:14
Yes, Maarten Kleijwegt, the owner, great service in his shop.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 05, 2020, 12:40:50
We, ie. the NG Crew, have been to his shop many times. Indeed a fascinating place and I usually exit the premises with addition(s) to my lens arsenal!! Last time I got a superb Panagor 21mm f/4 which, as I had hoped, turned out to be a great UV lens.

The advertised Bellows-Nikkor is the less rare of the two, viz. the RF version, complete with the dedicated rare adapter for RF-F. I'd say the asking price is very acceptable for a nice copy of this kit.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 05, 2020, 15:36:55
Yes eBay prices seem much higher.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 05, 2020, 19:10:31
Yes eBay prices seem much higher.

Always wondered who the potential buyers of these overpriced items are ... and the advertising hooks are often pretty overinflated as well. For example, using "ultra rare" designation of a lens that exists in the thousands of samples.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bill De Jager on March 05, 2020, 21:23:44
The venerable Bellows-Nikkor 135mm f/4 Q springs to mind. Put it on a field-capable short Novoflex bellows with focusing rail and you are good to go, with magnifications to 1:2 or better depending on what version of lens and what system is attached to the rear of the bellows device. It goes to infinity if you wish to use it for landscapes.

The Bellows 135/4 has a silky-smooth bokeh thanks to the many aperture blades keeping the aperture circular at any setting. Specular highlights are rendered circular.

There are two main versions, the first being the original for the rangefinder Nikon (S-mount), the other basically is the same optics mounted in a long sleeve to allow it to couple directly to the F mount.

The lens is not hard to source on eBay or similar arenas.

This is one of the interesting lenses I've accumulated and not put to use yet, at least not until today. 

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49623968472_e9ff42a2dc_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iB6NXj)Plum blossoms with Nikkor-Q 13.5cm f/4 (https://flic.kr/p/2iB6NXj) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr

The lens was extended to provide roughly 1:1 magnification by using a cobbled-together set of helicoids, an extension tube, and adapters.  This allowed me to avoid using a cumbersome bellows handheld, or hauling out a tripod.  The aperture setting on the lens was f/8.  The image was cropped by about 1/3 due to vignetting from the extension tubes.  As with the previous image I posted, increased saturation and sharpening were applied in modest amounts.

Here's the setup:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49624051722_0b512b725e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iB7eGE)Nikkor-Q 13,5 f4 on extension (https://flic.kr/p/2iB7eGE) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 06, 2020, 01:12:50
An impressive rig, for sure there. I think we are to be thankful for the "IBIS" feature of our FF Z bodies :) I must admit in-camera stabilisation is a feature I sometimes miss with the DX bodies such as the Z50. Or my shaky hands exacerbate the problems created by a small, light-weight camera.

I like your plum image as it also nicely illustrates the points I made earlier regarding the pleasant appearance of photos by the 135  Bellows. Not only is the bokeh superb, but the slightly muted pastel-like colours can, judiciously applied, enhance the outcome as well.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bill De Jager on March 06, 2020, 01:54:34
Thank you, Birna.  It was lot of fun doing this and I was very pleased with the resulting image quality considering the age of the lens.  I very seldom use this amount of magnification and I'd forgotten how little DOF there is even stopped down.  However, focus stacking would not have been possible in this case due to gentle breezes.  There's also the matter that, due to the amount of extension, the effective f-stop was much higher than what was shown on the aperture ring.

Here is a crop showing actual pixels.  I think diffraction may be taking a toll here.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49624177243_31a277206d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iB7T1P)
Center Crop of Plum Flower (https://flic.kr/p/2iB7T1P) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr

My wife saw the rig and immediately recognized that I had assembled "camera Legos".  :D  The M42 helicoids I'd purchased a couple of years ago came in handy, but I just remembered that I do in fact have an original Pentax M42 extension ring set I could have used instead of the second helicoid.  Next time.
 
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 06, 2020, 04:35:49
Thank you for the many helpful replies. The Bellows Nikkor 13,5cm f4 looks to be exactly like the thing I am looking for. Thank you Fons for the link as well.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 06, 2020, 08:33:25
Bill, f/8 at approx. 1:1 translates to an effective aperture around f/16. Thus, as you indicated, dipping into diffraction territory. However, focus stacking with a lens set to f/5.6, or using a flash, might produced sharper images. Post-processing sharpening might also improve results.

I think this lens will do even better if the scale gets closer to 1:5 - 1:10. The Micro-Nikkor 55/3.5 had a similar optimisation.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 06, 2020, 16:12:20
The 135 f4 bellows Nikkor is no longer on the website.
The reason:

Hello Herr Buddy Jonkers,

Thanks for the purchase. The set is still available for you.
Total can be banked to account as specified below.
Parcels are shipped weekly on thursdays with FedEx. Tracking info
follows automatically by email,

Best regards,
Maarten Kleywegt
MK Optics / Fotohandel Delfshaven

With that, I am looking forward to add an interesting lens to my arsenal. Thanks to your expert advise, example photos and linking to Maarten Kleywegts shop.

In order to show how grateful I am for your input and opinions, I will make sure to post some photos made with the setup as soon as I can :)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: John Geerts on March 06, 2020, 21:26:40
Great. Looking forward for the results  ;)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 06, 2020, 23:54:50
That was a very good outcome, congratulations.
Looking forward to see some of your pictures when the lens has arrived.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 07, 2020, 10:19:00
Birna, a question on your reply. You mentioned the Novoflex bellows attachment. Is there a reason to go for the Novoflex rather then a Nikon bellows? From what I saw, the Nikon bellows costs about half of the Novoflex when bought used.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 07, 2020, 15:00:20
The Novoflex bellows is much smaller and made of plastic-covered material thus stands up to *real* weather. The version I prefer is the one with a built-in rail below the ordinary bellows unit.

The PB-4 would be the nearest equivalent in the Nikon line-up, but it is three times bigger at least. And much heavier. Build and workmanship are superior, but that is of less importance in the field as long as the gear works. The Novoflex by virtue of its petite size can be squeezed into tight places impossible to reach with a bigger bellows.

The bellows draw is longer on the PB-4, but either bellows will allow infinity focus and work in the near range up to approx. 1:2 (and larger, with the PB-4).

A final point concerns adaptation to the camera. The PB-4 is bulky and not entirely comfortable with today's camera sculpted contour, thus for nearly all camera models one has to add some extension to the rear of the bellows. I frequently use the very study E/E2 rings. Only the Df will attach directly without extra extension.

By contrast, as the Novoflex is so small, one often can get the camera attached directly to the bellows rear mount. In some cases the rear mount needs to be rotated 90 degrees to mount the camera, but this rotation is a built-in feature anyway thus no hassle as such.

The main drawback of the Novoflex, for me, is that the controls are designed for right-hand people. I'm left-handed and often lock the bellows instead of focusing it, as the bellows movement knobs are on the right and the locking buttons on the left side.

Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: rosko on March 07, 2020, 17:04:10
http://mkoptics.net/a/product_info.php?cPath=22_27&products_id=6943 (http://mkoptics.net/a/product_info.php?cPath=22_27&products_id=6943)

Thanks for this link, Fons !

A gold mine of second hand gear... :-* ;)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 07, 2020, 18:09:22
Thank you. That is again very comprehensive and useful information.

Goes to show that there is no substition for hands-on experience, for which I thank you for sharing that here.

I would have a PK-11 to mount a PB-4 on, but the other benefits of the Novoflex do indeed make it the obvious choice. Might be a while before I can find and afford one though, but until then I have a set of Nikon extension rings to use.

I have PK-11, PK-12, PK-13 (twice) and PN-11 (twice)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: pluton on March 07, 2020, 19:16:41
FYI: My D800's attach directly to the PB-4 bellows without extension, using the 90º rotation feature of the PB-4.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 07, 2020, 19:52:06
Any single-digit "pro" Nikon will not fit due to the battery compartment. If memory serves that is, which is becoming less certain as time marches on :)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 07, 2020, 22:33:48
FYI: My D800's attach directly to the PB-4 bellows without extension, using the 90º rotation feature of the PB-4.

That is good to know. It does increase the list of options.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 08, 2020, 13:53:46
I ended up buying a PB-4.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on March 08, 2020, 14:40:01
It is a nice, but large bellow, I enjoy it. I have the 105mm bellow to go with it.
Using a Z6 you don’t even need the 90 degree rotation.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 08, 2020, 15:27:03
Bent, at the moment I can still not see myself switch to mirrorless. I tried liking a few of the mirrorless cameras offered, but it just did not work.

I wouldn't mind the 90 degree rotation to mount the lens, because I never expect to swap to this setup very spontaniously. Most of my spider photography and the product photography I want to try next is very scheduled and planned. Setting up the lights takes a fair amount of time, and with that, a little extra effort to mount the bellows will not be a real downside. I am just glad if I find out that the bellows does mount directly to the D800 with this trick.

Either way, the advise I got from you and others, and the sample images did a lot to help me find an entry in this field of photography, and now I can hardly wait to get started, and already have various ideas on how to take this a step further.

But first, I expect a bit of a learning curve.

I did use a Cambo large format camera in the past and loved the experience, so I guess that the first barriers I will walk into will not be related to the multitude of adjustments possible, but rather to limited image circles of the lenses I own at the moment
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 13, 2020, 22:13:27
In the middle of all the Covid19 madness, most likely the only occurence I will still be able to remember some 5 years from today, is that my new lens showed up in the mail

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49655767518_db0f157ee7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iDUMGJ)BFK_6856 (https://flic.kr/p/2iDUMGJ) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

One of the main reasons to try out this lens is the diaphragm shape. With 15 blades, it remains pretty much round when stopping down. I hope that gives me a benefit when shooting one or two stops from wide open.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49655767128_5c4499216b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iDUMA1)BFK_6860 (https://flic.kr/p/2iDUMA1) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

The lens looks better then expected, but certainly not clean or excellent or mint. This lens was used and loved

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49656303491_4f381c1518_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iDXx2D)BFK_6857 (https://flic.kr/p/2iDXx2D) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

So that brings my current set of lenses to 9

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49656585582_8bc4793190_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iDYYTh)BFK_6854-Edit (https://flic.kr/p/2iDYYTh) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

All shots taken with the 55mm f3,5 Ai micro Nikkor. Lens #10. I need a camera with a larger non-CPU lens registry ;)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 13, 2020, 22:31:40
Now that's a nice collection of Nikkors if I ever saw one. And the collection is countable :)

A pity I shut down my lens chipping project 1-2 years ago. I own all the lenses shown on the photo and every one, with a notable exception of the 55/1.2, are CPU-enabled. I do have the 50/1.2 with CPU, though, thanks to Erik's master mind and clever workmanship.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on March 14, 2020, 04:28:55
In the middle of all the Covid19 madness, most likely the only occurence I will still be able to remember some 5 years from today, is that my new lens showed up in the mail

The lens looks better then expected, but certainly not clean or excellent or mint. This lens was used and loved

All shots taken with the 55mm f3,5 Ai micro Nikkor. Lens #10. I need a camera with a larger non-CPU lens registry ;)

Z cameras have 20 spots, and add in body stabilization. I love the way the viewfinder can magnify for fine focus. It makes old eyes new again.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Hugh_3170 on March 14, 2020, 10:00:06
Well Birna, I would be most happy to buy more CPUs from you if you should change your mind and restart the project.   :)

................................................

A pity I shut down my lens chipping project 1-2 years ago. I own all the lenses shown on the photo and every one, with a notable exception of the 55/1.2, are CPU-enabled. I do have the 50/1.2 with CPU, though, thanks to Erik's master mind and clever workmanship.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Bill De Jager on March 14, 2020, 17:48:43
Well Birna, I would be most happy to buy more CPUs from you if you should change your mind and restart the project.   :)

Same here.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 14, 2020, 19:35:28
Now that's a nice collection of Nikkors if I ever saw one. And the collection is countable :)

A pity I shut down my lens chipping project 1-2 years ago. I own all the lenses shown on the photo and every one, with a notable exception of the 55/1.2, are CPU-enabled. I do have the 50/1.2 with CPU, though, thanks to Erik's master mind and clever workmanship.

Thank you Birna. This collection might not contain many lenses, but the choice for each and every lens in there was made after much consideration and often after trying 5 or 6 different lenses of the same focal length. In the end, that condensed to a set of lenses in which each lens has a special place in my heart, and I know when I want to use each lens.

Often I also know quite exactly what I'm looking for in a new addition. Like the 13,5cm f4, I was looking for abilities none of my other lenses offered. I'm very glad you guys pointed me toward that lens, because first test shots show that it does exactly what I was hoping it would do.

Another lens I would love to add some day is the 85mm f1,8 Nikkor-H for it's wild rendering of OoF backgrounds.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 14, 2020, 22:28:42
Regarding small portable Nikon bellows I have a Model III which is quite nice……
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 15, 2020, 00:12:54
Apparently a Bellows-Nikkor 105/4 managed to sneak into your line-up as well? Assumed as it stands out quite clearly on the photo of your PB-6 bellows. Or at least I believe it's the PB-6. I only ever looked at the PB-4 which I have had since late '60s. Amazingly it still works as new.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 15, 2020, 08:09:30
The Nikon bellows model III is much smaller than PB-6 (both are single rails).
The image attached shows the size difference. There is at least one model III at ebay at the moment for about $75. Else I think it may not be very common. It is an old vintage bellows.
It is very nice and portable...…..
I also have a PB-4. It was so nice in built quality that I just must have one. It has the tilt and swing option which I thought I could play with……but never used it so far.....
The 105/4 bellows lens......it has been on the shelf for many years…..and I don't remember I have used it......but heard it should be quite good….
As I remember there is an old and new version......and think my is the "new" version. 
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 15, 2020, 10:59:59
I can add that to be able to mount a DSLR on Model 3 bellows an extension ring is needed as rear mount of bellows can't rotate so handle-grip of DSLR is a bit in the way. For my D5200 a 8mm PK-11a was sufficient.
I think the model 3 is the smallest bellows Nikon has made and nice to carry in the field I think…...but must admit I have not used it much. But think I will in the future......
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 16, 2020, 19:41:16
Some first results using the new-to-me 13,5cm f4 bellows Nikkor. This lens is amazing! And I only just scratched the surface of what is possible here!

//Arac attack advance warning!\

First, a few 100% pixel peeps

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49664197112_eff2ba57f5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iEDZwy)100% view 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2iEDZwy) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49663910206_e89b5f4d60_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iECweU)100% view 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2iECweU) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

Now for the full photo these crops were taken from

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49663916271_d58dd8470e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iECy3t)BFK_6963-Edit (https://flic.kr/p/2iECy3t) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

And two more 100% crops

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49663909831_3e67f289fb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iECw8r)100% view 3 (https://flic.kr/p/2iECw8r) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49663374113_c569c380e1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iEzLSV)100% view 4 (https://flic.kr/p/2iEzLSV) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

And the full photo

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49664214622_4f92c64148_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iEE5Js)BFK_6958-Edit (https://flic.kr/p/2iEE5Js) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

All with the 13,5cm f4 bellows Nikkor, the rangefinder to F adapter, PN-11 and one PK-13

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49664195067_79db19d631_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iEDYVi)DSC_5319 (https://flic.kr/p/2iEDYVi) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

Really looking forward to get hold of that PB-4 bellows unit
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 18, 2020, 14:02:46
Now I also have a Nikkor 135/4 bellows in transit to me.
It was sold as a Nikkor-O and not a Nikkor-Q    …..I tried to convince the dealer that it must be a Nikkor-Q and serial no. is also well inside Roland Vink's database serial no. range for this lens. It is the long mount version with the 43 to 52mm filter step up ring.
The dealer sent a close photo on lens face...….and based on this information it looks like a Nikkor-O but I guess something when wrong during engraving. I will have a closer look when lens arrives. What do you think?
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 18, 2020, 14:28:47
It's the last version of the Bellows-Nikkor Q 135mm f/4. Your serial no. is about 200 units away from mine :)

The "tail" of the letter Q is rather small on the engraving and over time, accumulated dirt might hide it to make the letter look like "O".
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 18, 2020, 14:45:08
I was also more or less 100% sure it is a Nikkor-Q...…
It seems not many "long mount" was made and only produced for about a year.
Considered it is not very common the price level is not extreme…...but high enough…..and on ebay there are still some for sale.
For pure photographic use the short mount would be a better buy.
It was advertised that a plastic box for the lens is included. Will se what that is......if it is just one of the usual "bubbles" with F-mount built in to hold the lens.   
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 18, 2020, 15:36:51
It usually is the "bubble" type container, yes. I got my RF Bellows-nikkor in one of those.

With the mount adapter on the RF lens, one winds up more or less the same as having the F-mount long-sleeve version. Actually the latter is better in one regard as there is no wobble from RF to F mount.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 18, 2020, 15:55:36
I'd like to add that there is a possibility of putting an "S" (RF) external mount on the front standard of a bellows. In that manner one can really get a compact setup with the original rangefinder version of the Bellows 135/4. RF(S)-m43 adapters are not hard to find, pretty cheap as well,  and you just remove the front and voilá there is your S-mount.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 18, 2020, 23:56:15
Taking the RF to F adapter out of the equation does sound interesting.

Will need to look at those mentioned adapters to see how that would work
So you just unscrew the S mount bajonet and find a way (drilling some holes I guess) to screw that in the place where the F mount bajonet of the bellows is, storing the F bajonet carefully to fit that back when needed?
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 19, 2020, 00:04:43
Even with the Nikon PN-11 and PK-13 I have a lot of fun with the 13,5cm f4 bellows lens.
The PB-4 is on hold at the customs office given the global situation.

First, the 100% crops

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49673498538_90468551ae_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iFtEvY)Socke 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2iFtEvY) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49674040386_c178f5565b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iFwrAb)Socke 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2iFwrAb) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49673498448_2572c55b37_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iFtEuq)Socke 3 (https://flic.kr/p/2iFtEuq) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

And the complete picture

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49674320112_2892b540cf_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iFxSK3)BFK_7056-Edit (https://flic.kr/p/2iFxSK3) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Erik Lund on March 19, 2020, 11:48:16
http://mkoptics.net/a/product_info.php?cPath=22_27&products_id=6943 (http://mkoptics.net/a/product_info.php?cPath=22_27&products_id=6943)
Very nice and he has a lot of knowledge, the NikonGear crew usually shop there when we visit NL  :D Fair prices,,,
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 19, 2020, 13:14:49
Now I got my Nikkor-"Q"? 135/4 long mount bellows lens.
It is in near mint shape…..so may have been sitting on a collectors shelf…...and maybe I should get a "user" myself and let this nice lens be sitting on the shelf :-)

The funny thing about the "Q" is that it looks like a "O"  …..so I may be the only only one having an "O" variant......even that lens itself must be a "Q".....
The lens itself is longer that expected. Rear element is about 3 cm from the F-mount.
What do you think when looking at the pictures…...a "Q" or an "O"?
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 19, 2020, 13:17:54
Engraving error. So the lens might be worth a fortune ???
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 19, 2020, 13:44:09
Do you think it is like stamps.....that there is a collector market for "variants"? :-)
The lens must have passed the quality control which is surprising as it seems relative few of these lenses has been made.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Birna Rørslett on March 19, 2020, 13:55:57
Nothing surprises me when it comes to collectors' whims ... There has been a marked for variations of regular items whether the deviation is intentional or not, for a long time.

For the two main models of the 135/4 Bellows Roland's pages list production figures totalling approx. 3.500 units. So this lens is not *very* rare.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 19, 2020, 17:45:32
Now I got my Nikkor-"Q"? 135/4 long mount bellows lens.
It is in near mint shape…..so may have been sitting on a collectors shelf…...and maybe I should get a "user" myself and let this nice lens be sitting on the shelf :-)

The funny thing about the "Q" is that it looks like a "O"  …..so I may be the only only one having an "O" variant......even that lens itself must be a "Q".....
The lens itself is longer that expected. Rear element is about 3 cm from the F-mount.
What do you think when looking at the pictures…...a "Q" or an "O"?

That one really looks fresh out of the box. Combined with the misprint, I am sure that with some patience, this purchase should not be your loss.

Personally I never minded having nice looking gear, but some items look so brand spanking new that I feel awkward using them the way I do. I generally look for slightly used but fully functional lense, because in the end, these were made to be used by photographers and it would be a shame to have them gather dust and fungus unused.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 26, 2020, 23:42:31
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49702700882_4b10d91ec7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iJ4kmE)BFK_7139-Edit (https://flic.kr/p/2iJ4kmE) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

Bellows arrived

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49701853458_1e1bdfe388_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iHYZrU)BFK_7147-Edit (https://flic.kr/p/2iHYZrU) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

And a first attempt to align the focal plane to the Nikon prism plate.

I must say that I am quite happy with this combo. More ambitious photos will follow in due time
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: MEPER on March 27, 2020, 20:45:03
Nice F-prism…...do you shoot film?
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: bobfriedman on March 28, 2020, 00:36:08
Nikon D3 ,Nikon Bellows-Nikkor-Q 13.5cm f/4.0
1/25s f/4.0 at 135.0mm iso200
(https://pbase.com/bobfriedman/image/132628268/original.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: the solitaire on March 28, 2020, 10:39:08
Nice F-prism…...do you shoot film?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49707683522_afc1ff200a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iJuSwf)BFK_7156 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJuSwf) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

This is a pretty nice camera, but not in as good a shape as collectable items generally are.
I used to shoot film more then I do today. But still, I occasionally put a roll of film in each of my film cameras and expose those.

Most of the time I forget to develop those rolls. Photography, at least the spontanious type, is more about observing and seeing for me, then it is about the resulting photographs.

With this bellows setup it's different though. That is all about peeking at things my bare eyes can not, or hardly see.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: Gone Fishing on December 16, 2022, 04:58:00
.
Title: Re: Lenses for a macro bellows setup with focal length of 135-150mm
Post by: mxbianco on May 26, 2023, 18:17:40
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49707683522_afc1ff200a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iJuSwf)BFK_7156 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJuSwf) by Plan B Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187392422@N03/), on Flickr

This is a pretty nice camera, but not in as good a shape as collectable items generally are.
I used to shoot film more then I do today. But still, I occasionally put a roll of film in each of my film cameras and expose those.

Most of the time I forget to develop those rolls. Photography, at least the spontanious type, is more about observing and seeing for me, then it is about the resulting photographs.

With this bellows setup it's different though. That is all about peeking at things my bare eyes can not, or hardly see.

That Nikon F is a Red Dot version, another collectible. Not really rare, about 10000 samples are present in the range 659xxxx-660xxxx
Non-Red dot samples in that serial # range are rarer.

Serial # 6598051 is present in Matthew Lin's Red Dot List.

I have 4 Red Dots, one with original box.

Ciao from Massimo