NikonGear

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Netr on February 12, 2020, 05:38:05

Title: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Netr on February 12, 2020, 05:38:05
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-cameras/d6.html

20.8 MP. 14 FPS.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ann on February 12, 2020, 06:08:49
Temptation!
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 12, 2020, 08:27:29
A capable and impressive camera, for sure. Even has GPS built-in -- a first for the flagship class.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mike G on February 12, 2020, 08:50:53
Just musing this morning, and I’m wondering why the sensor in the D6 has a 20mp chip instead of a 50/60mp chip? I note with interest that the Sony top model the A9 also has a 20mp sensor, I will assume it’s the same chip in both, I don’t know if that is correct, but I’m guessing now.
I’m sure they are both fine cameras, but to my uneducated eyes that Nikon’s top of the line machines have always seemed to me that Nikon has used a smaller mp sensor in its top of the line models. I’m sure that the output from these cameras is also superb, just curious as to why? Or am I to assume any camera with lots of mps is a consumer model?

Please don’t construe these remarks as criticisms.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Erik Lund on February 12, 2020, 08:51:33
Impressive Nikon soldiers on with the single digit D, must be extremely expensive for then to run R&D on that level! Very cool  8)
If only the had continued to develop the high resolution line,,, would just love to shoot D6X instead of the gripped D850, it never is the same with a separate grip  ::)
PJ and sports shooters are favored here
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 12, 2020, 08:57:20
Mike: this is a camera optimised for sports and photojournalist usage. Adding massive megapixel capacity would actually go against the needs of its user base.

Calibrated ISO range, to take one example, is 100 - 100K ISO. Meaning you can confidently shoot with the camera set anywhere within this huge span of ISO and have first-class results.

My mind stagers about what R & D efforts Nikon has brought to bear on this flagship model. It goes without saying the camera won't be cheap yet I doubt Nikon directly earns on its sale. The economic benefits are probably from lenses and accessories plus the immaterial value of providing such a machine to the general public.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mike G on February 12, 2020, 09:19:54
Birna, I hear what you say, and that makes sense of it now. However I’m surprised that Nikon didn’t put those resources into a super fast mirrorless camera, yes I know the m’less lens line up is not comprehensive yet, but it is very possible to use on m’less the range of F mount lenses and even to utilise the Sony range of lenses. But I can understand why Nikon wouldn’t promote that idea!
I must admit I hadn’t twigged the sports angle, but even then the price quoted in $ is $ 6500, ouch.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Jakov Minić on February 12, 2020, 09:23:20
Now this is a camera that I would love to shoot!
I think that it is cheap compared to the Z7 and all the things it does.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 12, 2020, 09:41:05
We'll probably see a quite similar Z version in the near future.

Nikon also launched two Z lenses today. The "travel zoom" 24-200/4-6.3 is not for me, whereas the new 20/1.8 S definitively makes it to my bucket list.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Fons Baerken on February 12, 2020, 09:49:31
Yes the 20mm f/1.8S is on my list as well will be even sharper than its f-mount equivalent which already performs quite good on the Z, price will be €1000 at least, i think.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 12, 2020, 10:02:37
Nikkor 20/1.8 S: NOK 12000 in my country, i.e. around 1100 Euros. A tad more expensive than the 24/1.8 S.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 12, 2020, 10:55:33
Just musing this morning, and I’m wondering why the sensor in the D6 has a 20mp chip instead of a 50/60mp chip? I note with interest that the Sony top model the A9 also has a 20mp sensor, I will assume it’s the same chip in both, I don’t know if that is correct, but I’m guessing now.

Sony's A9II has 24MP, the D6 and 1DX III are with 20MP.

These cameras are primarily targeted at photojournalists and especially professional photographers covering sports. For newspaper and web use, 20MP is sufficient and the primary objective is to get the moment in focus reliably rather than in high resolution. High resolution cameras have gotten faster too, e.g., the D850 can shoot 45MP at 9fps and A7R IV 61MP images at 10fps. However, neither the D850 nor the A7R IV can quite give the excellent AF performance that the "flagship" models have. On one hand, the lower resolution of the sensor means the AF doesn't have to aim sky high in precision and the designers can aim for the highest speed.

In action photography, because of the subject movement, and often low light, high resolution would not really be realized in a typical situation even if the sensor resolution were increased dramatically. There is little time to AF on a fast-moving subject in low light, so the AF has to be super fast and responsive to changes in movement, but would it be possible to focus with the precision requirements of (say) 61MP in that kind of environment? Often in indoor sports photography one is at ISO 2000 to 6400, and applying noise reduction to a high-resolution image tends to smear the finest details. Finally, if you are a press photographer, you may be required to submit the images very quickly and the smaller files may be a better fit for that kind of hectic work environment especially with the wireless transfers.

These are specialized cameras for specific working conditions and not all-purpose cameras.

Quote
Or am I to assume any camera with lots of mps is a consumer model?

Not at all, the D850 has 45MP and it's a professional camera. Many users who need high resolution trek in the landscape and the more compact body may be their preference for that kind of work.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 12, 2020, 11:05:03
While it is possible to mount adapted lenses to a mirrorless camera, it is generally not possible to have the best AF performance by doing that. And catching the moment is all these cameras are about, so it's all about how quickly the subject is brought to focus and how one can catch the decisive moment. Nikon probably don't have the technology ready to make an A9 II competitor as a mirrorless camera at the present time (they said at Z launch that they were half-way though developing this, but I don't know how many years that means ;-)), they don't have the native sports supertelephoto lenses for Z, and many sports photographers prefer optical viewfinders and given the declined income opportunities for sports and photojournalism today, I imagine the cost of all-new native lenses is a put-off for many.

Nearly all the advertising images for this product line are of sports subjects. ;-) So they don't hide the objective of the camera.

I haven't yet seen any A9 or A9 II in use at sports events that I go to. Lots of photographers have 300/2.8 lenses to shoot with, and many use older generation ones that are still perfectly fine and don't cost much to maintain (compared to e.g. the cost of a new lens). I imagine in other parts of the world there may be wealthier sports photographers, and at figure skating world's and grand prix I did see some 180/200-400/4 (the 180-400 was with NPS-stickers so likely it was loaned), 600/4 etc. but the 70-200/2.8 and 300/2.8 are still the most common.  By looking at many of the lenses it is obvious that they have been around the block and were not bought yesterday.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mike G on February 12, 2020, 11:15:05
OK, I’ll go and stand in the corner with my dunces hat on.  :'(

My apologies if I got some my facts wrong that’s the trouble with musing, and letting ones thoughts wander!

Thanks for the info about the two new lenses, unfortunately this means I’m destined to be poor!


Thanks for bearing with my ramblings.  :)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 12, 2020, 11:26:22
They must have decided many months earlier that EXPEED6 has sufficient processing speed and power for the D6 ie not spend more on R&D for an 'EXPEED7'

I'm disappointed the D6 is not 30mp, which is far better for many subgenres of wildlife, but the big marketing thrust of the D6 is sports - as we know and Ilkka explains. One hears that 20mp does a good job for the majority of end users. Compared to all the noise in Canon about their Deep Learning AF system, Nikon spells out it out differently from Canon, but it sounds that the 3D tracking etc has been upgraded in the D6.

"With the new AF dedicated engine, the image processing engine EXPEED 6, and the advanced scene recognition system that works with them, the D6 further enhances various performances. In particular, face / upper body detection information, defocus information, and motion detection information improve tracking performance of the subject's movement in the planar direction. " The block diagram under 'Advanced scene recognition system' does not translate from the Japanese, unfortunately and it's not on Nikon USA nor Nikon Europe.
https://www.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/d6/features01.html

They also mention AFFT in the D6 is improved for the newer zoom lenses :-) And it the D6 AF should also work a bit better at f8 with a TC

Keeping the ENEL18 and core haptics are big +ves for many of us, and hopefully these stay untampered in an upgraded D850. It could use an extra Fn button and more, however, especially with even more AF modes that some of us may hot-map. Bottom line, I'm another one encouraged that Nikon has released the D780 and now the D6, and let's hope there is a D850 upgrade merging key features of the D6 and also D780 :-) If the AF has top specs, it should meet demands for a '30mp D6'

 As the tech details roll out patchily on source webpages (in true Nikon fashion), the sum of the parts will become all the more impressive overall; This is only Day 1 - much more stands to be revealed about the D6 'out there', including where possible comparisons with Canon's new DSLR and its AF.

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/what-is-deep-learning-af-how-does-canons-ai-powered-autofocus-work
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 12, 2020, 11:42:46
OK, I’ll go and stand in the corner with my dunces hat on.  :'(

No, don't. We all can learn from each other.

Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mike G on February 12, 2020, 11:54:03
Very true Ilkka, that the beauty of forums which are a mine of information, super.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Fons Baerken on February 12, 2020, 12:22:18
Yes the 20mm f/1.8S is on my list as well will be even sharper than its f-mount equivalent which already performs quite good on the Z, price will be €1000 at least, i think.

Correction the pre-order price is €1249, at cameranu.nl, quite steep
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mike G on February 12, 2020, 13:38:38
Fons WEX is listing the 20mm F1.7.8s at £1049 for pre-order!
Almost worth a ferry trip to Norwich.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Peter Forsell on February 12, 2020, 13:52:39
Fons WEX is listing the 20mm F1.7.8s at £1049 for pre-order!
Almost worth a ferry trip to Norwich.

1049 Sterling is 1 248,23 Euros. You reckon the two way ferry trip is 77 cents or less?  8)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Fons Baerken on February 12, 2020, 14:22:44
Prices will drop
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: bobfriedman on February 12, 2020, 15:05:44
I own a D5 with around 200k actuations and I don't think this upgrade is worth the money for me considering I have plenty of life left in D5
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 12, 2020, 16:22:17
Nikon is characteristically reticent to spell out deeper details of the new AF in the D6. In their video, based on demos of pingpong at the UK Launch, GoW mentioned the ability to delimit the AF zone as well as the 17 options to configure sensors in Group Mode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv__lY-TMz4

If I recall correctly, the D4 "only" used the D3 AF, and this was tweaked in the D4s - added improvements. 2 generations after the D3, the D5 was the first camera to get a completely new AF System.: cloned with distinct changes into the D500 and D850. Today we read/hear the D6 again gets a completely new AF System above and beyond the D5. This is only one generation later. Nevertheless, the Nikon bashing is strident?! Maybe cynical, but I suspect most of the bleaters will never buy a D6 (neither a Used D4 etc) and quite a few only have a cellphone ;-)

The AF alone is a great leap forward. It will be with us for the next 4 years if not longer. Nikon won't dump all the R&D they've invested, and we can look forward to the algorithms being built into the MILC AF of future Z cameras.
Currently, this site seems to have the best coverage: https://www.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/d6/features01.html
 
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ann on February 12, 2020, 18:06:28
Interestingly the price of the D6 in the USA is almost the same as what Nikon charged for the D5 when it was first released four years ago.

My D5 is still in tip-top condition after four years of extensive use (I use it for everything and everywhere) so I have no reason to even be reading the specs. of the D6 but yet . . . .

Perhaps D5 would like a younger brother?
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mike G on February 12, 2020, 18:30:42
Hello again Ann, I seem to remember you saying something similar just before you bought a D5!
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Anthony on February 12, 2020, 19:03:06


Perhaps D5 would like a younger brother?

Definitely.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: fish_shooter on February 12, 2020, 20:04:48
Currently, this site seems to have the best coverage: https://www.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/d6/features01.html
[/quote]


Roger that!!
15-3 is something that would work for my remote control salmon photography. The box of points can be slid up and down as well from one of the examples. This is similar to what was available  with the D2X - I often used just the row of points in the middle and shifted them up an down if needed.
Tom
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Luc on February 12, 2020, 22:14:40
We'll probably see a quite similar Z version in the near future.

Nikon also launched two Z lenses today. The "travel zoom" 24-200/4-6.3 is not for me, whereas the new 20/1.8 S definitively makes it to my bucket list.
That 24-200mm is very light and compact at just 570 grams, 114mm length and 67mm filter size. I'm hoping (and kind of expecting) it to be optically quite ok.

And on the D6, it's nice to see Nikon catering for the target group with this camera.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MFloyd on February 12, 2020, 22:56:16
The D6 upgrade is exactly what i want from my 2 D5s.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 12, 2020, 23:42:30
Was waiting a long time to replace my D4S with the D6
its success (and my decision) will depend solely on how good and improved  the AF system will

The rest of it looks a bit disappointing now
Does not look very progressive compared to the D5
Does not look very innovative compared to new Canon EOS-1D X Mark III
As a result does not look too competitive
Nikon is maybe more far away from regainig its top level positin in pro segment than ever and might lose ground even more than it already did
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mexecutioner on February 13, 2020, 00:35:14
Interestingly the price of the D6 in the USA is almost the same as what Nikon charged for the D5 when it was first released four years ago.

My D5 is still in tip-top condition after four years of extensive use (I use it for everything and everywhere) so I have no reason to even be reading the specs. of the D6 but yet . . . .

Perhaps D5 would like a younger brother?

You know you want it... Your D5 wants a sibling too...  What to do....
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ann on February 13, 2020, 06:18:32
A D6 is a huge temptation — although I really have no way of justifying the purchase of a new camera right now!

:)

Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 13, 2020, 08:18:23
In an interview (published 12th Feb) this Nikon Executive confirms Nikon responded to feedback from D5 shooters, and it appears they ranked their top needs as: Better AF, Seamless Wireless, improved options to Customize Menus.

In contrast, requests Video, Lv etc didn't feature much, if at all, and it appears neither did a higher resolution sensor. With the very best AFC, the key features that matter for shooting sports are better performance in low light with fastest shutter speeds etc.

https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/6739481235/ces-2020-interview-nikon-we-are-at-a-transitional-stage

Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 13, 2020, 14:37:09
A D6 is a huge temptation — although I really have no way of justifying the purchase of a new camera right now!

:)



You can afford. You want. You buy. That is Ann.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ann on February 13, 2020, 17:29:25
There wouldn't be much demand for more pixels from the kind of photographers who buy these fast-action sports cameras.
 They use long focal-length lenses to fill the frame; and a 20+ sensor is more than sufficient for their needs in most cases. They also may need to instantly transmit images quickly across the Internet.

Publications and Web Sites only require relatively small images

I have never understood the race for larger and larger pixel counts.
 
How many photographs larger than 20" x 16" are the complainers going to actually print?
Also, consider the normal viewing-distance for anything larger than that.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 13, 2020, 19:13:15
It depends on the photographer and situation.

Nikon did make the D850 as they had received requests for the combination of high speed and high resolution. And it's a very popular camera.

Saying that the action photographer always has just the right length of long lens so that no cropping is needed doesn't seem always realistic. I photograph figure skating quite often and in that sport, the subject to camera distance can vary greatly. I have seen photographers do long rapid fire sequences of athletes approaching from quite a distance and I know from looking at the lenses used that for most of the sequence they would not have been filling the frame or even close. However, then I also see photographers do single shots at carefully planned moments in the performance. They go to rehearsals and find out the best angles for specific moments.

But there can also be unpredictable moments. And the lens on camera may not be the best one. IMO the D850 gives some additional playroom in such situations and preserves quality better when the image needs to be cropped. Maybe the tonal and color quality of the D5 in indoor sports is better (ISO would be in that camera's most competitive range) but still the D850 images are a bit sharper and more crisp. Of course whether this is needed is another question but it's evident in a moderate sized print. Of course, a frame-filling shot is better than a cropped one. But still, sometimes I enjoy shooting with the 70-200/2.8 like it were a 70-300mm f/2.8-4 in terms of outcome. And tracking and keeping an unpredictably moving subject in the frame is easier when I can keep a bit of extra room around the subject in the viewfinder and yet still keep enough pixels in the final composition.

However, at the end of the day I have to admit that if I can get a first-row seat, I usually shoot with the D5 and 200/2 and like the frame-filling images the best. So I guess this is just a long-winded admission of agreement.  :)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MFloyd on February 13, 2020, 20:45:17
My first D5 dates from March 2016, the other one from June 2017. I will keep the younger one. And I pre-ordered a D6 this morning, hoping to have it by end April.

An even better AF, and a WiFi / Bluetooth / SnapBridge communication interface, was on the top of my wish list. I never use the video features of these cameras. And LifeView is almost limited to still subjects.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mexecutioner on February 13, 2020, 20:53:36
There wouldn't be much demand for more pixels from the kind of photographers who buy these fast-action sports cameras.
 They use long focal-length lenses to fill the frame; and a 20+ sensor is more than sufficient for their needs in most cases. They also may need to instantly transmit images quickly across the Internet.

Publications and Web Sites only require relatively small images

I have never understood the race for larger and larger pixel counts.
 
How many photographs larger than 20" x 16" are the complainers going to actually print?
Also, consider the normal viewing-distance for anything larger than that.

I totally hear what you say and for most applications in my case 20-24MP works and the files are a nice manageable size. Last October I got an IQ4150 back and the 150MP files are breathtaking to say the least and every time I see them up on the computer I shake my head in disbelief, but that of course has to do more with other aspects than resolution alone. I haven't printed anything yet but I am tempted to do some really large scale prints, the thing is I don't have enough wall space at home to display them.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Hugh_3170 on February 14, 2020, 01:41:38
If I recall correctly, ISO400 35mm/135 format colour print film was the equivalent to about 6MP before increasing the level digitisation started to fail to yield more useful definition. 

Correctly exposed slide film and fine grain B&W did better than this.  However few 35mm films for this format would do much better than 20MP even in the best of circumstances and handling.  Moreover, scanners such as Nikon's well regarded Coolscan series rarely delivered above 4,000DPI (about 20MP after cropping around the slide mount).

So with a good quality 20MP sensor in the FX/135 format, peoples cameras have already film behind, especially when the correct viewing distance in respect to the size of the print is observed. 

I do concede that a larger sensor resolution is helpful if framing is loose and cropping is required, but FX/135 format cameras with about 20 to 24MP seem to be in vogue and with good reason for general purpose photography.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Erik Lund on February 14, 2020, 08:18:50
It's very obvious to me that a lot of us really like/use the really high resolution of the D850 and Z7 that doesn't mean the D6 is bad, the D6 is just capable of different things, optimized for other or additional functions  ;D 8)
High resolution makes eyes pop and architecture stand out, and yes for large prints!
Matt Granger, a long time Nikon aficionado is not impressed with the D6 on announcement, dissing it to pieces even before starting to use it  ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ2DZhDuTek

Seems to me some have a very difficult time understanding there is  huge difference between; Need to have and nice to have,,, must own and!
It's completely fine with me if you just like the best and greatest and never print, fine I know this feeling ;) but it's like not really the target the Nikon designers go for, they go for optimized for the particular job, the intended purpose for that camera, if you're not shooting with the camera with that intent, don't expect the tool, camera is perfect for your intensions or use.Matt is comparing the D6 to some small cameras, I would newer dream of taking such cameras to a paid sports or PJ event type shooting jobs,,, I also think his mirroless arguments a flawed as I see it, there is still a long way before they are up to DSLR viewing experience if they ever get that  ::)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 14, 2020, 08:53:42
The troll armies have swarmed over trashing the D6. Typing away past their bedtimes. The cellphone is the limit of most keyboard eggspurts, judging by the silliness and worse.

Many enthusiasts and also Pros do not need a D6, but we all be using the D6 AFC engine if we upgrade to future cameras. Brad Hill and Thom Hogan published some measured pre-use comments on the D6. Otherwise we wait weeks into April - and longer - for reliable reviews. Utubers are best ignored.
http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html#D6PrelimThoughts

- D6 AF focusing system, ENEL18c, ~12 fps, dual CFexpress, What is needed rather urgently (if Nikon want upgraders and new owners of DSLRs) is a D850 with emboldened specifications, including cloning feratures across from the D6 and also Z7/D780.

Many owners of this D880 will shoot macro, so ISO64 is mandatory, as is tilting touch screen, and more than decent Lv AFS etc (focus-peaking). Such a camera will also continue to appeal to landscape shooters. So adding key features that have just been added into the D780 will clinch appeal across genres. An improved  Z7 sensor that does noticeably better - ie less noise - IQ at ISO6400. The D850 has its traction through fitting the individual demands across a diversity of genres. As Jeff McNally and Dixey Dixon quipped at its launch in NYC - The camera of totality



Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 14, 2020, 09:08:46
recap: not much innovation following the wishes of a small user base. Great upgrade for D3s/D4s users who skipped the D5
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 14, 2020, 09:28:22
To me the D6 appears to be a D5S - a D5S I have liked to buy some 2 years ago
If the AF System proves to be a significant improvement I will buy a D6 (as I dont have to justify anything). With dozens of F-mount lenses including Superteles I am "captured" in the system (which i still consider to be the best choice for me). So sure lots of Nikon D4/D4s/D5- users will upgrade sooner or later. (BTW i am satisfied with the resolution, there is the D850 out there as well for these kinds of jobs).

Photo industry is not only serving needs but beefing up their products with features creating dreams and illusion.
In this aspect the impression is inevitable that former pro-level leader nikon is not on par with Canon any more, which will further (may it be on an irrational level) influence decisions in which system to buy in (or some even to change as it already happened in the past). This might contribute to NIkon having a harder time in sales than it already has now - which is unfavorable. These type of cameras are designed for SPorts photographers  and action- nature photographers profit
My favorite Nature Photographers magazine shows an increasing Share of Canon shots observable throughout the last months and years- dont expect D6 to be a trend changer
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Wannabebetter on February 14, 2020, 09:45:36
I am confident the D6 will have its place in all manner of hell, be it the US House of Representatives or some far-flung field of misery and slaughter, for years to come.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 14, 2020, 13:28:48
To me the D6 appears to be a D5S - a D5S I have liked to buy some 2 years ago

Well, it is not common that Nikon develops a whole new state-of-the-art AF module every two years (the previous genuinely new module before the D5 in 2016 was from the 2007 D3, tweak a couple times over 13 years, then the D5 gets a genuinely new one and the D6 four years later again gets a new module). Since Nikon's Kenji Oishi says the AF system of the D6 is a "dramatic jump" from the D5, I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt and assume that indeed it is a significant improvement. I'm surprised that people aren't more excited about it, I think pretty much nobody expected a new module and it wasn't mentioned in the rumors.

Quote
Photo industry is not only serving needs but beefing up their products with features creating dreams and illusion.

Yes, sure, but in the end the performance and results are what matter, not imaginary things.

Quote
In this aspect the impression is inevitable that former pro-level leader nikon is not on par with Canon any more

I thought that Canon took over in early 1990s and has pretty much held onto that position, so this isn't really new! At sports events I always see many more Canons than other brands.

As for what Canon did in the 1DX III what they produced is a new AF system for the viewfinder photography (as did Nikon) but without evaluating its performance, it's difficult to know if either of them is ahead.

Canon also put in a lot of video features into the 1DX III, but I don't know if it is sensible to use this type of a brick for video unless as a second or third camera. There is no viewfinder for video and the camera is heavy. Nikon put video feature upgrades into the Z6, Z7, D780 and D850, less so in the D6. I think the lighter bodies such as Z6 make more sense for video work since there is a viewfinder that can be used, there is no extra mass of optical viewfinder components that cannot be used in video, and so handling should be much easier on rigs that can be lighter weight. I just don't see why video features would be so crucial in a D6 type camera. Apart from  video features, what "dreams" did Canon invoke?

To me Canon have a comprehensive DSLR lens system which is their main strength. Canon's fast superteles are lighter than Nikon's. On the other hand Nikon have the 500 PF which arguably wins the lightness contest easily. However, in mirrorless Canon have a scattered approach with separate APS-C and FF mounts and the APS-C system has only a small number of lenses and primes are mainly around normal and moderate wide angle focal lengths. The FF mirrorless system has a lot of exotics (f/1.2 primes and f/2.0 zoom) and only two sub-1000€ lenses. I thought mirrorless was about getting a lighter weight but high quality system; how do RF system users compile a light weight setup? Nikon have 14-30/4 and 24-70/4, both getting excellent reviews and compact. They have a set of 5 new f/1.8 primes all again so far reviewed favourably. To me this is a much more sensible approach to mirrorless. But somehow the market likes Canon. It's as if they only sell a dream, not what is really needed, and the customers take it and swallow greedily. (Canon did produce a set of f/2.8 zooms and that's probably what many users will buy. But we can't really talk about a compact setup in such a case. The 70-200/2.8 is compact for its specification but loses some focal length upon close focus so it's kind of what you see is what you get.)

I like the Canon R5 button and control layout from the back of the camera, it seems they put in all the controls that are needed (wheras the main control wheel is missing from the R). However, it is difficult for me to believe it would be affordable. Yes, dreams, but does the reality match up?

For example, what I would like to do with mirrorless is photograph people quietly with a smaller, less obtrusive camera setup and quieter shutter. Right now the electronic shutter comes with some drawbacks but the mechanical shutter of a mirrorless camera still feels quieter than the combination of mechanical shutter and mirror movement. The Z7's sound is quite pleasant in my opinion. So with it I could photograph people with less attention being directed to me than when using a DSLR (though the D810, for example, and many DX models such as D7200 are quite quiet also, and the quiet continuous mode can be useful).

In these situations where I want to photograph people at close distance, aside from quiet operation, I need a lens aperture that is large enough that I can get high-quality images. I would say f/1.4 and f/1.8 both qualify when used with modern FX sensors. An f/1.2 is unnecessarily large and I consider it more a special-effect lens. For this type of photography, I might want to use 20/1.8, 35/1.8, 50/1.8 and 85/1.8. Nikon already offers such a set costing about 3500€ (less if timed for rebates). If I wanted to get four primes from Canon, I could not build an equivalent set and if I wanted native primes, I'd be spending many times more for f/1.2 lenses that are not best suited for photographing without drawing attention to me.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 14, 2020, 21:29:10

I thought that Canon took over in early 1990s and has pretty much held onto that position, so this isn't really new! At sports events I always see many more Canons than other brands.

There were ups and downs. The introduction of the D3 helped Nikon gain some terrain.  I dont foresee this effect now but if so it will depend on which AF system is significantly better

As for what Canon did in the 1DX III what they produced is a new AF system for the viewfinder photography (as did Nikon) but without evaluating its performance, it's difficult to know if either of them is ahead.


We will have to await this. Nikon has more AF sensors and all cross type but that does not say too much



To me Canon have a comprehensive DSLR lens system which is their main strength. Canon's fast superteles are lighter than Nikon's.

BTW. I would not want to exchange my superteles against Canons

Nikon could have as well removed the video functions from the D6, i hardly or nev6er use this feature. it could even go without Live-View. I am using that on other bodies preferrable with flexible display but not with my current D4S
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 15, 2020, 02:08:43

We will have to await this. Nikon has more AF sensors and all cross type but that does not say too much

In my experience it does matter a lot if the subject doesn't have clear contrasty texture to focus on; with cross-type sensors it's easy to focus on faces. It really annoyed me a lot when using Multi-CAM 3500 series bodies so many years; the focus percentages using the corner points (1/3 on both axis) on faces in low light were really poor. With the D5 and D850, focusing is much better using peripheral points. The D6 adds the in-between regions to cross-type coverage, which should be good.

Quote
BTW. I would not want to exchange my superteles against Canons

Well, there we have agreement; I wouldn't want to give up my Nikkors (nor do I have any plans to). I have used other brands' lenses and don't find the images as pleasing, in many cases.

Quote
Nikon could have as well removed the video functions from the D6, i hardly or nev6er use this feature. it could even go without Live-View.

I too rarely shoot video, but if the LVAF were better, I'd use it more. My experience is in photography, not video, and it would take me a long time to learn how to do high-quality video. The whole mindset of video is different, as one needs to consider continuity of the timeline, one can't move the camera freely, etc. I think watching poorly shot video is unbearable and so I'd want to do it properly or not at all. I think video is a whole different world and don't really understand the motivation behind the so-called integration or convergence or hybridization of the two media.

However, Live view is very important to me,  as when taking photographs of static subjects, it allows focusing accurately and many other things. One might ask why would I take photos of static subjects with a D5 or D6, the answer to that is that if that's the camera I have with me when I need to take a photograph, that's the camera I'll use. Also, sometimes the subject is moving but camera position is nevertheless fixed on tripod. E.g. today I was taking photos of light art installations in Porvoo, a small town. At one point I was shooting over a river with a 135mm lens, the subject was colorfully lit huts by the riverside, with silhouetted figures inside (the people viewing the work). In this case if I had wanted to avoid blurring the people because they were walking through, I would have had to use a high ISO and the D5 would have been advantageous for that. Still, I was using a manual focus lens (Apo Sonnar) and LV was the best way to focus it in this situation. To me LV is very useful, I would say one of the most important features of a camera. It's the foundation of doing any precision work.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 15, 2020, 12:44:20
Several pros have spelt out that they switched to Nikon for the D3: namely its better AFC and low-light shooting. Comparing the history of new features vs tweaks of D3 through to D5, and now to the D6 tells us more as to perhaps how Nikon have named these cameras:

https://photographylife.com/nikon-flagship-dslr-comparison

Looking back at the flagship D* DSLRs, the improvements have largely been incremental eg fps, although one might quibble 9fps > 11 fps is significant to capture the right gestures at a critical moment (e.g. golf swing, bird landing).... the faster fps the better to grad the "WHEN" can be vital. A New AFC engine is the Mega-Tick of the great leap forward: thus D3 and D5 versus D3 and D4 upgrades. All the tweaks to video etc are merely minor, nice but sidelines - ie none = a Mega-Tick. (So perhaps Nikon work on the maxim of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.) If the AF engine gets redesigned / upgraded then it's a new flagship. This makes sense given the primary users of these cameras. As those with experience tell us here, the FX AF sensor had its limitations, and so it could be argued the D4 did not justify its moniker after the three D3 versions, but Nikon improved the D4 sensor.

 Perhaps, the tighter girding of R&D over the past few years (with Z System urgencies and demands) explains why they did not merge more of what we see in the D780. But, again, which Pros really need more of such features?

Improved networking of the D6 is the other Mega-Tick why it's no D5s.

D3 > D4 > D5 each updated the sensor. With the D5 > D6 it's still 20mp - Oh the horror of horrors!!! but we do not YET know if these sensors are the same. If Nikon has improved D6 IQ at end of the of ISO range then another Mega-Tick. Especially if ISO100 gets better DR and the low-light ceiling has "darkened". If it turns out a +ve at either end (better both ends) then Wow, and Wow! This will be significant for actual photographers of sports and wildlife, who push the extremes.

Nikon pulls off bizarre blunders time and again, eg no grip with controls on the Z cameras. Considering how the D6 has turned out, viewed in retrospect the D6 teaser videos are even more bizarre than they did pre-release. Why the hell didn't we see glimpses of the new AF in action (using tested prototypes) - and in low light too?!?

However with the flagship FX DSLRs aimed primarily at Pros shooting top level action events, the R&D has consistently delivered a rugged tank of a camera that delivers, and above all a camera "that leaves nothing to chance" wrt capturing subjects in action scenes. The AFC is the crux. So we read the D6 AF sensor is now Multi-CAM 37K (D5 is Multi-CAM 20K), and layout of the cross-type sensors and software are major upgrades. If tough testing might in fact turn out to obviate the official claims, then there ARE problems. If the AFC in the D6 is indeed a significant improvement, then the D6 is NOT a D5s contra Mr Hogan in his latest essay insinuating Nikon is too proud to call the D6 a D5s.... He should know better.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 15, 2020, 14:21:24
In my experience it does matter a lot if the subject doesn't have clear contrasty texture to focus on; with cross-type sensors it's easy to focus on faces. It really annoyed me a lot when using Multi-CAM 3500 series bodies so many years; the focus percentages using the corner points (1/3 on both axis) on faces in low light were really poor. With the D5 and D850, focusing is much better using peripheral points. The D6 adds the in-between regions to cross-type coverage, which should be good.

Yes it should be good, thats why i plan to buy it and thats the key issue where it might beat the new EOS 1

I too rarely shoot video, but if the LVAF were better, I'd use it more. My experience is in photography, not video, and it would take me a long time to learn how to do high-quality video. The whole mindset of video is different, as one needs to consider continuity of the timeline, one can't move the camera freely, etc. I think watching poorly shot video is unbearable and so I'd want to do it properly or not at all. I think video is a whole different world and don't really understand the motivation behind the so-called integration or convergence or hybridization of the two media.

However, Live view is very important to me,  as when taking photographs of static subjects, it allows focusing accurately and many other things. One might ask why would I take photos of static subjects with a D5 or D6, the answer to that is that if that's the camera I have with me when I need to take a photograph, that's the camera I'll use. Also, sometimes the subject is moving but camera position is nevertheless fixed on tripod. E.g. today I was taking photos of light art installations in Porvoo, a small town. At one point I was shooting over a river with a 135mm lens, the subject was colorfully lit huts by the riverside, with silhouetted figures inside (the people viewing the work). In this case if I had wanted to avoid blurring the people because they were walking through, I would have had to use a high ISO and the D5 would have been advantageous for that. Still, I was using a manual focus lens (Apo Sonnar) and LV was the best way to focus it in this situation. To me LV is very useful, I would say one of the most important features of a camera. It's the foundation of doing any precision work.

Dont misudnerstand me. I do see the value of Life View. But if I say a pro camera is developed for just one purpose (fast action) it is not needed, or it would require better Live-View AF. Here there appears to be little improvement in the D6, adn as the D780 and Z Series shows Nikon has not implemented its best available technology. I am using Live View for getting more accurate manual focussing in static situation (yes I can use a D4S or D6 for that type of shooting a swell) or together with tilted LC-Display for dynamic macro work where an AF-lens is needed and the yet implemented Contrast AF is some kind of a nuissance in all my bodies.

The same is true for video, this would deserve better AF, I am no Director but rarely used this feature at bird colonies with action ongoing and such like. Funny enough I did not even one video with the Z6 so far (althouth this should be the most advanced technology) which shows how low the importance of video is for my work


BTW. I'd like to see a D510 later  with the new AF module included.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 15, 2020, 14:32:30
Several pros have spelt out that they switched to Nikon for the D3: namely its better AFC and low-light shooting. Comparing the history of new features vs tweaks of D3 through to D5, and now to the D6 tells us more as to perhaps how Nikon have named these cameras:

https://photographylife.com/nikon-flagship-dslr-comparison

Looking back at the flagship D* DSLRs, the improvements have largely been incremental eg fps, although one might quibble 9fps > 11 fps is significant to capture the right gestures at a critical moment (e.g. golf swing, bird landing).... the faster fps the better to grad the "WHEN" can be vital. A New AFC engine is the Mega-Tick of the great leap forward: thus D3 and D5 versus D3 and D4 upgrades. All the tweaks to video etc are merely minor, nice but sidelines - ie none = a Mega-Tick. (So perhaps Nikon work on the maxim of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.) If the AF engine gets redesigned / upgraded then it's a new flagship. This makes sense given the primary users of these cameras. As those with experience tell us here, the FX AF sensor had its limitations, and so it could be argued the D4 did not justify its moniker after the three D3 versions, but Nikon improved the D4 sensor.

 Perhaps, the tighter girding of R&D over the past few years (with Z System urgencies and demands) explains why they did not merge more of what we see in the D780. But, again, which Pros really need more of such features?

Improved networking of the D6 is the other Mega-Tick why it's no D5s.

D3 > D4 > D5 each updated the sensor. With the D5 > D6 it's still 20mp - Oh the horror of horrors!!! but we do not YET know if these sensors are the same. If Nikon has improved D6 IQ at end of the of ISO range then another Mega-Tick. Especially if ISO100 gets better DR and the low-light ceiling has "darkened". If it turns out a +ve at either end (better both ends) then Wow, and Wow! This will be significant for actual photographers of sports and wildlife, who push the extremes.

Nikon pulls off bizarre blunders time and again, eg no grip with controls on the Z cameras. Considering how the D6 has turned out, viewed in retrospect the D6 teaser videos are even more bizarre than they did pre-release. Why the hell didn't we see glimpses of the new AF in action (using tested prototypes) - and in low light too?!?

However with the flagship FX DSLRs aimed primarily at Pros shooting top level action events, the R&D has consistently delivered a rugged tank of a camera that delivers, and above all a camera "that leaves nothing to chance" wrt capturing subjects in action scenes. The AFC is the crux. So we read the D6 AF sensor is now Multi-CAM 37K (D5 is Multi-CAM 20K), and layout of the cross-type sensors and software are major upgrades. If tough testing might in fact turn out to obviate the official claims, then there ARE problems. If the AFC in the D6 is indeed a significant improvement, then the D6 is NOT a D5s contra Mr Hogan in his latest essay insinuating Nikon is too proud to call the D6 a D5s.... He should know better.

There is a lot of truth in your words. As I have also called the D6 a D5s but without reading and thus knowing that Mr. Hogan appeared to have done the same. It might be true that ALL true pros are rational and just buy what they need (although I doubt that this goes for100%), but there are more flaghship buyers that are not immune to features. There was a similar situation in times of the NIkon F3 wher Nikon started to lose its lead in the -then assumed - conservative Pro-segment.
I was doing the D5s comparison because evidently Nikon is not using its best available techology in all aspects whereas Canon currently is doing. Nikons policy might also have in mind that they can sell a mirrorless flagship body (Z9?) filled with best technology and features of all usefull or useless kinds next year
Personally i can live without a lot of features, VR is useless and turned off most of the time.
Everybody who can count can see that 20 or 16 Fps is faster than 14 no matter to which extent the difference is really relevant
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Hugh_3170 on February 15, 2020, 14:50:33
Wolfgang, I suspect that there may be another refresh to the FX sized Z cameras before then.

Nikon are pretty conservative and they are now a financially leaner company than they were even a few years ago and top end professional cameras such as the D* cameras and their successors must cost a fortune to design and build, so I reckon that just before the 2024 Olympics (i.e. the next Olympics in Paris after Tokyo this year) would be the earliest that such a mirrorless professional flagship camera might eventuate.

T.......................................................................................

Nikons policy might also have in mind that they can sell a mirrorless flagship body (Z9?) filled with best technology and features of all usefull or useless kinds next year
.........................................................................................
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 15, 2020, 19:22:15
Wolfgang, I suspect that there may be another refresh to the FX sized Z cameras before then.

Nikon are pretty conservative and they are now a financially leaner company than they were even a few years ago and top end professional cameras such as the D* cameras and their successors must cost a fortune to design and build, so I reckon that just before the 2024 Olympics (i.e. the next Olympics in Paris after Tokyo this year) would be the earliest that such a mirrorless professional flagship camera might eventuate.

you are right that they have less financial power than they already had (and downcycles are dangerous). Currently they are refreshing Z6 and Z7 via firmware. I dont know whether there will be Mk2 versions of those. There is rumors of a Z8 with 60 mp Sensor which would equal for Z-mount what D850 is for F mount. I dont think they really can wait four years for bringing a Z9 but on the other hand it is better not to release a Z9 than releasing something that is not able to beat/or at least compete with Sonys A9.

BTW I called my dealer today to put me on the D6 waiting list - so far i am the first
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 15, 2020, 21:25:57
evidently Nikon is not using its best available techology in all aspects whereas Canon currently is doing.

Nikon probably don't want to put OSPDAF in their professional DSLRs because they consider the image quality slightly compromised by the OSPDAF sensors and in the DSLR, LV or video are not the primary modes of operation (the viewfinder is), so it's not strictly necessary to implement OSPDAF. Canon use dual pixel AF which doesn't cause striping or banding, but it can lead to much more processing power being needed (or slower operation, if such processing power is not available) because of the amount of data that needs to be read and processed. For example a 20MP camera needs a 40MP sensor for dual-pixel AF and 80 MP for quad-pixel AF should they decide that cross-type sensors are needed. Can Canon make such a sensor with read times competitive with Sony A9, so that they can implement rolling shutter free electronic shutter (1/150s read time instead of the typical 1/15s-1/30s)? With dual-pixel AF it may be not easy to achieve that. The 61MP sensor in the A7R IV has a read time of 1/10s so it's further away from rolling-shutter free silent shutter use in still photography. If Canon want to make a 61MP camera with dual-pixel AF they need a 122MP sensor whose read time might be 1/5s (I am not saying they can't solve the problem with new technology, but the tendency is for larger and higher pixel count sensors to have slower read times).

I think for consumer / newcomer adoption, LVAF is really important as many people are used to using the LCD of their phones or compact cameras and are unfamiliar with viewfinder use, so if they make first contact with an ILC in a store, and the LV AF is poor, they may not look at that camera a second time. And even for serious photographers, some need moving-subject tracking in LV for various reasons (I sometimes do). At least Nikon now provide good LVAF in the Z50, Z6, Z7 and D780 so camera stores can show these cameras as options. If they can't solve the banding/striping in the long run then it may be that they'll continue not to put the mirrorless camera sensors into top DSLRs. Of course this also means there may not be all top video features. D6 does have focus peaking so manual focus during video and LV should be easier in some cases than on a D5.

But other than that, I don't know what technology Nikon have available that they didn't put into the D6.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MFloyd on February 15, 2020, 21:30:00
recap: not much innovation following the wishes of a small user base. Great upgrade for D3s/D4s users who skipped the D5

We don’t know yet what the “better AF” will bring. As a D5 user, it’s AF is already the best one currently available. As a sport /action photographer, I demand a lot of the D5’s AF; but if Nikon provides an even better one, I had no much second thoughts to made up my decision.

Another point is communication: having WiFi, Bluetooth (and positioning) available is a big plus point in the era of social media asking for near real time availability of images.

So, for me, even for D5 users, the switch is entirely justified.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49254083067_610130533f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i3q3UK)
_D568647.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2i3q3UK)
WEC 2019 Bahrain (Federation Internationale Automobile - World Endurance Championship)
Nikon D5
Nikkor 70.0-200.0 mm f/2.8E FL
ƒ/2.8  145.0 mm 1/125s  ISO 400
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 15, 2020, 23:16:59
Nikon probably don't want to put OSPDAF in their professional DSLRs because they consider the image quality slightly compromised by the OSPDAF sensors ...
Thats a thought that also came to my mind recently

But other than that, I don't know what technology Nikon have available that they didn't put into the D6.
IBIS would be another example, D6 was rumored with that feature, Canon has implemented it, Nikon did not. BTW i dont miss it

They DID implement focus peaking as a new feature, I did not mention that
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Mexecutioner on February 16, 2020, 01:34:13
The 1DXMkIII does not have IBIS, the announced R5 will, but that is not a DSLR
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 16, 2020, 10:30:55
The 1DXMkIII does not have IBIS, the announced R5 will, but that is not a DSLR
So the information i read somewhere about EOS 1 including IBIS was misleading, sorry
Yes R5 is not a DSLR
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 16, 2020, 11:17:41
So the information i read somewhere about EOS 1 including IBIS was misleading, sorry
Yes R5 is not a DSLR

Yeah, there were rumors of D6 with in-camera VR. It is possible to implement (Pentax, Konica-Minolta and Sony had it in DSLRs) but it adds complexity and may not perform as well as on mirrorless. As the image sensor is moved, the viewfinder image does not show the correction and the AF sensor may also be out of alignment with the moved image sensor. There is also the matter that a D6 is expected to be really rugged and additional moving parts may adversely affect that.

I think it would have been nice to have in-camera VR but I can understand why they would not do it. This is a case where rumor sites by dispersing inaccurate information can cause a feeling of a letdown when it turns out the rumored specs were just a figment of someone's imagination. Note that there was no mention of a new AF module in the D6 rumors. A while back a similar thing occurred with the rumored Z lens roadmap which turned out to be fake.

I am just excited that they made a new AF module and look forward to seeing how it performs. I am likely, however, to wait for the D850 to be updated with the new AF system rather than buy the D6. I am pretty confident they will do it since it allows them to leverage the AF system development cost over multiple camera bodies and the D850 is popular and well-regarded.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: MILLIREHM on February 16, 2020, 12:31:59
Had that kind of complexity-error with my old F4 and its builit-in viewfinder diopter correction getting lose, thus not showing any kind of sharp viefinder image any more
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Frank Fremerey on February 16, 2020, 13:05:18
We don’t know yet what the “better AF” will bring. As a D5 user, it’s AF is already the best one currently available. As a sport /action photographer, I demand a lot of the D5’s AF; but if Nikon provides an even better one, I had no much second thoughts to made up my decision.

Another point is communication: having WiFi, Bluetooth (and positioning) available is a big plus point in the era of social media asking for near real time availability of images.

So, for me, even for D5 users, the switch is entirely justified.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49254083067_610130533f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i3q3UK)
_D568647.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2i3q3UK)
WEC 2019 Bahrain (Federation Internationale Automobile - World Endurance Championship)
Nikon D5
Nikkor 70.0-200.0 mm f/2.8E FL
ƒ/2.8  145.0 mm 1/125s  ISO 400


I like to have GPS and WiFi builtin and I like a monolitic body like the one digit bodies ... Better AF is alright but I never use more than 10 fps and I prefer a higher resolution sensor.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Øivind Tøien on February 17, 2020, 01:25:01
Had that kind of complexity-error with my old F4 and its builit-in viewfinder diopter correction getting lose, thus not showing any kind of sharp viefinder image any more

This happened to my F4 too after a drop. I opened up the viewfinder and found that the adjustable optic element had come loose from its plastic frame. I simply glued it back in the plastic frame and got it working again.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 17, 2020, 15:58:40
An interesting inside take based upon working at Nikon UK (1995-1999) on the Nikon that was (and probably that still is). Towards the end of the article, in chagrin about the D6, the author argues the company is probably working full steam ahead on its Z system.

I found it reads well and interesting, but his rant after reading the D6 specs, smacks of his having been too gullible (swallowing rumours of IBIS etc) and too impatient to wait for field data

http://www.picturedesk.co.uk/news/2020/02/nikon-an-insider-story/

This article has been picked up on by several web-based photographic newshubs
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on February 17, 2020, 17:19:48
It doesn't sound like the person really understands the technology very well at all; there are many factual errors in the article. So he watched rumor sites and was disappointed that the rumor-site published specs on the D6 turned out to be the figment of someone's imagination instead of real specs. Whose fault is that? If he had been an insider as he claims, he would have known what the product really is going to be like.

Of course we all know that Nikon are working mainly on the Z's since in that sector they came in late and they need to catch up with a comprehensive product line.

The real problem is that fabricated specs get routinely passed on as "rumors" and then there are sites who publish such "specs."  It looks like Nikon are getting a lot better at preventing these sites from getting real information until rather close to the product announcement date. So this means that if Nikon keep it that way, rumor sites increasingly publish fabrications. Another example was the rumored Z lens roadmap, which contained zero additional correct information that wasn't already known in the the original roadmap, and the real updated roadmap that Nikon published eventually contained none of the lenses that the rumored roadmap had included beyond the already previously known ones.

My guess is that this trend will continue. Rather than blaming the rumor sites for false specifications, and setting the wrong expectations, people blame Nikon for not meeting the fabricated specifications.

If one wants to know what Nikon are up to, interviews such as frequently published by dpreview and e.g. imaging resource reveal a lot about Nikon's strategy without being specific about yet unannounced product details. From this information it is easy enough to deduce what can be expected in the future. And not be disappointed.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 18, 2020, 20:35:31
D6 Brochure fyi - official details including information about the new AF system

https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-YRYNeYvAi9beHK4x3L-wmtXfawgokSdJtu7dDU0VkoA==/Misc/D6-Brochure.pdf
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on February 19, 2020, 00:01:56
Woody and Ilkka,

I agree with your points. The author comes across as someone who does not seem to understand technology that well and is more interested in having a "flagship" than he is in photography. The claim that it is an "Insider's" view when he has been outside more than 20 years is certainly a loooong stretch.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Bill De Jager on February 19, 2020, 00:45:58
Ilkka, this site doesn't provide for upvotes on posts but here's one anyway.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on February 20, 2020, 12:28:23
Brad Hill's update, derived from the D6 Brochure mainly
http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html#D6MOREThoughts

https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-YRYNeYvAi9beHK4x3L-wmtXfawgokSdJtu7dDU0VkoA==/Misc/D6-Brochure.pdf

as noted a few days ago, the whole that's the D6 matches the magnitude of upgrade as the previous flagships (D3,D4,D5)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Erik Lund on February 20, 2020, 13:38:44
Wow, the brochure is really nice and comprehensive as always!
It is a new focus system,,,  ;D
The only thing I still miss is the focus point spread, could do with points further out,,, otherwise,,, Just Wow!  8)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Wannabebetter on February 20, 2020, 13:41:09

Code: [Select]
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Wannabebetter on February 20, 2020, 13:46:44

The real problem is that fabricated specs get routinely passed on as "rumors" and then there are sites who publish such "specs."  It looks like Nikon are getting a lot better at preventing these sites from getting real information until rather close to the product announcement date. So this means that if Nikon keep it that way, rumor sites increasingly publish fabrications.
That practice is endemic to the current techno narrative at large, corresponding to a similar condition of reportage unfettered by archaic notions of vetting evidence and fact-checking.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: CS on February 20, 2020, 17:34:31
Brad Hill's update, derived from the D6 Brochure mainly
http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html#D6MOREThoughts

https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-YRYNeYvAi9beHK4x3L-wmtXfawgokSdJtu7dDU0VkoA==/Misc/D6-Brochure.pdf

as noted a few days ago, the whole that's the D6 matches the magnitude of upgrade as the previous flagships (D3,D4,D5)

Quite a handsome brochure!
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: mxbianco on May 03, 2020, 07:38:31
So far, we haven't gone past the brochure stage.

Usually when a new model enters the arena, the reference manual pops up in downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com.

No manual so far. No announcements by anyone bragging to have one.

The coronavirus pandemic seems to have quarantined the D6 too :(

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Hugh_3170 on May 03, 2020, 08:22:12
IF the Olympics go ahead in 2021, then based on past practice, Nikon will release the camera a few months before the commencement of the games. 

With the extra development time afforded by the delay of the games, maybe we will see the Nikon D6s instead?  ;)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on May 03, 2020, 10:29:15
IF the Olympics go ahead in 2021, then based on past practice, Nikon will release the camera a few months before the commencement of the games. 

With the extra development time afforded by the delay of the games, maybe we will see the Nikon D6s instead?  ;)

There are supply chain issues due to the pandemic, so they may have some difficulty to get all the parts for the production of the camera. The manual typically comes out online at the same time as the first cameras reach the customers.

While the Olympics are an important way of showcasing the camera, it is not solely made for the Games.  I don’t see how Nikon could afford not to sell a finished camera and just postpone it possibly indefinitely. There is a large cost for making the tools for producing the camera and it should be sold as soon as it is ready to recover those costs while the technology is competitive. Canon and Sony already put theirs on the market.

Of course, no major sports are being played at the moment but there is plenty of photojournalism to do (current issues) and when working with gloves on, it is easier to use the full-size camera. And wildlife is not in quarantine.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: mxbianco on May 03, 2020, 11:03:50
IF the Olympics go ahead in 2021, then based on past practice, Nikon will release the camera a few months before the commencement of the games. 

With the extra development time afforded by the delay of the games, maybe we will see the Nikon D6s instead?  ;)

My father used to say "Don't go out for a hard trek with new boots", even the eventual D6s would be a new camera. And the Olympic Games are a "hard trek" in photographic terms. A trusty set of backups is essential.

Ciao from Massimo
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on May 03, 2020, 22:00:49
I don’t see how Nikon could afford not to sell a finished camera and just postpone it possibly indefinitely. There is a large cost for making the tools for producing the camera and it should be sold as soon as it is ready to recover those costs while the technology is competitive. Canon and Sony already put theirs on the market.


I've worked for a long time in semiconductor industry and am always surprised to hear people believe that a product is being held back for one reason or another. New technology is like a banana, it has a short shelf life.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on May 05, 2020, 12:06:38
IF the Olympics go ahead in 2021, then based on past practice, Nikon will release the camera a few months before the commencement of the games. 

With the extra development time afforded by the delay of the games, maybe we will see the Nikon D6s instead?  ;)

Last month [21 April] Brad Hill posted Nikon Canada were planning to ship his ordered D6 soon - first week of May. He's already field-testing his 120-300 f2.8E, and will soon be testing the D6 outdoors. More than a few of us are most interesting to hear what he says abou the new focus-system  ;) ;)

http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html#500mm_wars_1
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: Wally on May 13, 2020, 04:18:27
First reviews are appearing
https://nikonrumors.com/2020/05/12/first-nikon-d6-review.aspx/
(Original in Italian)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 formally announced by Nikon
Post by: chambeshi on May 20, 2020, 08:05:22
The D6 Manuals are available to download. Many of us may never own a D6, but it's useful for deeper insights into its capabilities and functions - notably the new Autofocus system and also Customization features.


https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/545/D6.html