NikonGear

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on September 11, 2019, 18:19:38

Title: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 11, 2019, 18:19:38
Just a note. My gut is that the new iPhone 11 Pro/Pro Max is a pivot point, especially with the forthcoming “Deep Fusion” mode which combines a series of shots (like stacking) to make a highly detailed shot. The iPhone 11 can also produce DNGs.

The camera now has three cameras:

An ultra-wide 13mm f/2.4 5-element lens with 120-degrees field of view and a 12MP sensor.

A 26mm f/1.8 wide, 6-elements, 12 MP sensor with optical stabilization camera.

A 52mm f/2.0, 6-element lens, with optical stabilization, 2x optical zoom 12MP sensor.

It also works with a fascinating piece of software for video called Filmic, which allows you to use some of the multiple cameras in the iPhone 11. In addition, the iPhone 11 Pro/Pro Max has 512 GB and up to 5 hours more battery time than before.

My best guess is that this event is a toehold on the future and the flag or sign that a beefed-up iPhone can finally handle low to medium photographic tasks, if not right now, then soon.

When you consider you can get DNGs from this camera, Night Mode, and a small host of other features, we have, IMO, crossed a point of no-return. If this is not the next page, then at least the iPhone 11 sends a signal that change indeed is coming.

The thought of carrying an iPhone, a gimbal, and a few other accessories instead of all the gear I now carry is worth thinking about. No, not for landscapes and the kind of close-up I like, but to be able to carry around a camera in my shirt pocket to address all of the times I wish I had a camera with me is tempting. I am getting one and selling a bunch of lenses.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: atpaula on September 11, 2019, 22:41:15
As we say around here, another nail in the camera maker's coffin.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: pluton on September 11, 2019, 23:08:21
Alas, I'll have to wait a while for these new iPhone cameras, as I have recently been forced by circumstance to invest in a 2018-issued iPhone.  I have read that some of the cameras in the higher-end Android phones are better and more versatile than the iPhone cameras.
In theory, as long as you could avoid jacking up the ISO beyond 50 or 100, one could get perfectly useful shots from the iPhone raw files.  Lord help you if you want to shoot at high ISO from the tiny sized sensor.
I'd like the wide lens IF it is applicable to video; The current iPhone video takes a 16x9 extraction from the standard 4x3 frame, yielding a less useful, non-wide video field of view.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 11, 2019, 23:31:09
To me, that is not the point. I suggest we are transitioning as to what we use photography for. I can’t or don’t want to haul a lot of equipment around. I just came back from a 1600-mile trip, carrying a bunch of lenses for the Z7, and a Sony FS-5 video system for video, plus two separate tripods, heads, cables, and on and on.

That’s a job. I would also like to have an upscale smart phone like the iPhone 11 Pro with perhaps a gimbal, a monopod, and perhaps a tiny tripod when I want something simpler, or just take an iPhone out when I walk or whatever. I am liking the idea of making small videos, as well.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Akira on September 12, 2019, 01:28:39
I've processed some RAW files of the now obsolete iPhone SE and was already stunned by its image quality.  I then stopped looking at compact digital cameras for good.

According to the YouTuber photographer Ted Forbes of "The Art Of Photography", the latest Sony Xperia 1 can shoot 10bit 4:2:2 4k video internally.

Also, considering the constantly improving vibration reduction of the phone cameras, gimbals for smartphones can be obsolete sooner than expected.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 12, 2019, 01:41:14
I’ve been photographing since 1956 and have had just above every Nikon digital camera since the CoolPix and the Nikon D1 DSLR and on up to the Nikon Z7. I have scores of lenses and have been very serious about close-up macro and focus stacking.

So, I don’t say this glibly, that for me this is a transitional moment for me, getting the iPhone 11 Pro for some fairly serious work. I still have all my cameras, technical cameras, bellows, and lenses, although I will sell some lenses. I will use all the digital cameras in my studio and especially in winter here in Michigan.

However, I am going to look into what it feels like to have a reasonably capable camera I can place in my pocket. And I have ordered all the accessories already: gimbal, apps, tripod heads, and so on.

Just like flowers ripen, one at a time. This new iPhone 11 Pro is enough for me to give it a serious try. And, I want to make short videos, as well.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 19, 2019, 20:00:55
Gear I have ready and will be using with the Apple iPhone 11 Pro which I will receive tomorrow includes:

Shure MV88 ioS Digital Stereo Condenser Microphone (+ windscreen)

Bluetooth Camera Remote Shutter for Smartphone

Cellphone Tripod Mount (Arca-Swiss)

DJI Osmo Mobile 3 Smartphone Gimbal (or similar)

Filmic Software for Gimbal

Mini Tripod Stand with Arca/Swiss

Gitzo Monopod with Arca/Swiss

AOKA Compact Carbon Fiber Tripod with Arca/Swiss

There are probably things I am not thinking of, but I am taking this seriously. Just came back from an event where I had probably 80lbs of video and still equipment. My days for that are numbered. If I can make the iPhone 11 Pro work for some of the travel work, it would be nice.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Jan Anne on September 19, 2019, 22:38:48
Love the new ultra wide angle lens on the iPhone, seems like another key differentiating feature of a "real" camera has been tackled by Apple.

I'll stick with my Xs for another year but that lens is for sure tempting, I did order the watch series 5 however so my Appletite has been satisfied for now.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 19, 2019, 22:43:17
Love the new ultra wide angle lens on the iPhone, seems like another key differentiating feature of a "real" camera has been tackled by Apple.

For now I'll stick with my Xs for another year but that lens is for sure tempting.

The fact that we will be able to shoot multiple cameras in the iPhone at the same time is incredible, thus, with video, we can have a two-camera shoot, wide and tele, with one operator, so that we can edit the resulting streams with one camera. The "Deep Fusion" feature, coming soon looks to be very useful for finer work, also 512 and 5 extra hours of battery life, etc.   

I have the watch series 4 because of the EKG and Afid monitors.
.                                     
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Roland Vink on September 20, 2019, 03:42:28
Interesting, the cameras follow the "Rørslett" rule with focal lengths exactly 2x apart. All they need now is a periscope style 105mm, or a tele zoom to give a true telephoto. :o

The trend for many years was for smart phone screens to get bigger, with thinner and finally no borders at all, which is fine. Also for phones to become thinner, which I don't really understand as you don't save much space by making a phone thinner if the screen is bigger. The net result is there is precious little real-estate around the edge for actually holding them, unless it's in a case. A phone a few mm thicker wouldn't be noticeably bigger, but it would give more space to grip them properly, it would be stronger, and allow more space for a bigger battery. More importantly, it would give room for better cameras - bigger sensor, faster lens, longer focal length etc. But "thin" is the fashion...
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: pluton on September 20, 2019, 04:14:40

The net result is there is precious little real-estate around the edge for actually holding them, unless it's in a case. A phone a few mm thicker wouldn't be noticeably bigger, but it would give more space to grip them properly, it would be stronger, and allow more space for a bigger battery. More importantly, it would give room for better cameras - bigger sensor, faster lens, longer focal length etc. But "thin" is the fashion...
iPhones haven't been grippable for some years now.  They are made with the edges rounded and smooth polished. Slippery and easy to drop. Lloyd Chambers has, in the past, used the term 'Brain Dead Ergonomics' to describe some Apple computers. It certainly applies to my naked iPhone Xr.
 I place them in the thickest, fattest, most grippable case available.
BTW, the battery on the iPhone Xr has a very high capacity.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: tommiejeep on September 20, 2019, 06:19:21
One of India's English Language TV news channels has been using Samsung for broadcast starting with the Galaxy S 8. and now using S10+.   I have not looked at their Social Media sites.  Live streaming events with numerous , small packages onsite makes it difficult for the authorities to manage.    Obviously not thinking image quality as top priority but does serve the idea of getting the event out live.  Mobile phone submitted vids are always suspect as to validity.   Now it would require reporters/investigators to cherry pick what they film to slant the story but with everyone having mobiles, makes it more accountable.
Sorry, sort of off topic.
Tom
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Fons Baerken on September 21, 2019, 08:06:18
Nice article on iphone cameras:

https://photographylife.com/reviews/iphone-x-camera?utm_source=Photography+Life+Newsletter&utm_campaign=628a5a94c0-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74d1711c3d-628a5a94c0-183978053 (https://photographylife.com/reviews/iphone-x-camera?utm_source=Photography+Life+Newsletter&utm_campaign=628a5a94c0-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74d1711c3d-628a5a94c0-183978053)
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: CS on September 21, 2019, 17:43:49
Nice article on iphone cameras:

https://photographylife.com/reviews/iphone-x-camera?utm_source=Photography+Life+Newsletter&utm_campaign=628a5a94c0-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74d1711c3d-628a5a94c0-183978053 (https://photographylife.com/reviews/iphone-x-camera?utm_source=Photography+Life+Newsletter&utm_campaign=628a5a94c0-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74d1711c3d-628a5a94c0-183978053)

Very enjoyable article, Fons!
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Ann on September 21, 2019, 19:30:31
I am the Maverick who hates iPhones; has no desire for a new one; and likes to have a big clunky heavy Nikon in her hand!

Otherwise, I don't enter Photographer-mode at all.

So Nikon, please continue to make your fine cameras even if it is only for me!
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Ian Watson on September 21, 2019, 20:31:43
I like my iPhone. Just not for photography.

Real cameras, please!
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: CS on September 21, 2019, 21:58:15
Nobody is forced to shoot with n iPhone, nor are they prevented.  ;)
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Tristin on September 21, 2019, 22:47:31
The best camera in the world is always the one you have with you, so it is great that phones are becoming so capable.  But mobile devices will never displace ILC due to the handling and lenses. 
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Hugh_3170 on September 22, 2019, 10:06:41
A very fair point.

Nobody is forced to shoot with n iPhone, nor are they prevented.  ;)
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: schwett on September 29, 2019, 00:58:40
iPhones haven't been grippable for some years now.  They are made with the edges rounded and smooth polished. Slippery and easy to drop. Lloyd Chambers has, in the past, used the term 'Brain Dead Ergonomics' to describe some Apple computers. It certainly applies to my naked iPhone Xr.
 I place them in the thickest, fattest, most grippable case available.
BTW, the battery on the iPhone Xr has a very high capacity.

with all respect to lloyd and others opinions about cameras and ergonomics (which i find interesting and often informative), the form factor and usability of modern smartphones and other similar mass market devices are pretty extraordinary by any objective measure. they have virtually no controls, yet are able to do 90%+ of the things that 90%+ of the population used to think you needed a desktop computer for. their thin-ness is part of what makes ubiquitously useful! i’ve always used whatever the latest large format iPhone is, usually without a case or with the thinnest one, and have only extremely rarely dropped one, slip it in and out of a suit jacket or jeans pocket dozens of time a day and basically take it everywhere without friction or hassle.

the elimination of borders, excess thickness, buttons, etc is precisely what makes them universally useful, and what allows such a small device to have a legible screen...

a serious camera, of course, has different constraints and physical limitations, so for now i’m content to carry around my z7 or d850 with all their accompanying very satisfying chunks of glass  :)
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 29, 2019, 08:44:46
Do iPhone users put the protective "glass" skins over their iPhone or android face?

Is it important?
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Michael Erlewine on September 29, 2019, 08:45:33
sorry. hit button twice
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Anthony on September 29, 2019, 10:46:52
Do iPhone users put the protective "glass" skins over their iPhone or android face?

Is it important?

I never use a protective skin.  But I take reasonable care not to put the phone where it might be scratched, so for example I do not carry it in a pocket with coins or keys.  I do not know how a skin would affect the operation of the touch screen.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Jan Anne on September 29, 2019, 14:40:14
Do iPhone users put the protective "glass" skins over their iPhone or android face?

Is it important?
No, Apple uses the toughest glass out there's no need to protect it.

I do use a leather case however to protect phone itself and make it less slippery while handling it:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MWYC2/iphone-11-pro-leather-case-forest-green?fnode=42

These are a lot better than the cheaper silicone cases btw which are too sticky making it harder to slide the iPhone in and of a pocket, they also wear very quickly on the corners while the leather version ages beautifully as most leather things tend to do.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: chambeshi on September 29, 2019, 15:56:21
The follow up article by Nasim Mansurov is also interesting, more so I find. I agree with the author that many newcomers to most modern cameras are challenged by the steep learning curve and poorly designed controls. Menu "systems" of prominent brands are impenetrable and worse. IME - admittedly briefly - is the main reason why Sony cameras are a no-go zone. One might adapt to its haptics but the menus are another matter. In contrast, my Nikon system works very well indeed overall. The Z7 with smaller lenses, including the two PF Nikkors, might not be as small and light as a "smart" phone, but such phones with their cameras et al are very different tools.

"Sadly, the outlook for the camera industry is looking pretty grim..... Still, camera manufacturers should think hard about making their cameras easier to use. Instead of increasing the complexity gap between smartphones and specialized cameras, they should focus on what they do best – deliver exceptional image quality with superb ergonomics and simple menu systems. This will at least keep their existing customers from jumping ship."

https://photographylife.com/smartphone-vs-camera-industry
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Kenneth Rich on September 29, 2019, 17:11:51
chambeshi, I am in complete agreement with you, especially on the crying need for simple menu systems.  The seemingly impenetrable menu system that controlled the Fuji XE-1 and sought to control my efforts to use it finally led me to give that camera rio my son and pushed me into the open arms of my ever-strengthening endearment to my Df. In contrast, my wife discovered the iPhone, and iPad and will not touch any other camera, and the images she makes constantly overshadow my efforts. I too fear for the future of the "true" camera and camera industry , be it mirrored reflex or mirrorless marvel. 
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: CS on September 29, 2019, 19:00:39
No, Apple uses the toughest glass out there's no need to protect it.

I do use a leather case however to protect phone itself and make it less slippery while handling it:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MWYC2/iphone-11-pro-leather-case-forest-green?fnode=42

These are a lot better than the cheaper silicone cases btw which are too sticky making it harder to slide the iPhone in and of a pocket, they also wear very quickly on the corners while the leather version ages beautifully as most leather things tend to do.

Indeed, iPhone cases cab be a very real issue. Not everyone has the same needs, or likes and dislikes, with cases. I use a folding leather case  that also protects my display because my phone lives in the right front pocket of my pants where the leather allows sliding it out to be easy. That is not optimal for photography, but it's a good solution for me, that allows photography, although that requires more attention.

Additionally, as I age my hearing becomes more difficult. and the thin leather lets me hear the phone ringing while in my pocket, and the thicker silicone cases don't do that. This is my 3rd iPhone using the same case model (German made, Kavaj), although a different size for each. It also holds a couple of credit cards and offers RFID protection. I like the cognac color choice.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H4GGKHP/ref=twister_B07H4K11C5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: pluton on September 29, 2019, 19:42:08
Do iPhone users put the protective "glass" skins over their iPhone or android face?

Is it important?

I've not seen hard glass covers for smartphone screens --- do they exist? --- only ones made of thin flexible plastic film, that can transmit the touch gestures to the phone's screen underneath. I had such a case on my previous iPhone 5, and it worked OK.
Usually, the cases with the thin film screen protection are marketed as being "waterproof".  Adding a case to make one's phone waterproof seems redundant now that the better phones are now IP67 rated...better than our so-called "water-resistant" DSLRs and lenses!
Like Jan Anne, I consider screen covers not necessary at this point in phone tech history, as the phone screens are made of
1. Glass (which is difficult to scratch at all) and
2. Tempered glass, which is difficult to break.
I try very hard not to carelessly throw around a US$700+ computing device, just as with a US$5000 camera and lens, but accidents will happen, and somehow millions manage to drop and smash their phone screens.
And to the points made by Mark (Schwett), I agree that the designers of the phones ultimately made the right decision by making the bodies of the phones smooth and slick; that leaves the option open for folks like me that want it to be more grippy and ruggedized to add a protective case. They've certainly done an amazing job integrating the thousands of possible functions into a small, pocketable device. 
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: CS on September 29, 2019, 20:07:11
They've certainly done an amazing job integrating the thousands of possible functions into a small, pocketable device.

The closest thing to Capt. Kirk's Communicator, to date!  ;D
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: Roland Vink on September 29, 2019, 22:57:17
Do iPhone users put the protective "glass" skins over their iPhone or android face? Is it important?
My wife has a glass cover on her iPhone 7, it works perfectly. Glass adds another layer of protection if you are in the habit of dropping your phone or putting it in a pocket or bag with keys, coins etc. But as others have noted, if you take care of your phone, it shouldn't be necessary.
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: pluton on September 30, 2019, 07:41:56
The closest thing to Capt. Kirk's Communicator, to date!  ;D
When I use the speaker phone, it's extremely similar!
Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: RexGig0 on December 05, 2019, 19:44:43
I was an early adopter of the iPhone 11 Pro Max, after having skipped every iPhone since the 7 Plus. Well, actually, I had been through several 7 Pluses, because iPhones are so  vulnerable to being dropped, and sometimes survive the fall, only to land in a situation or environment beyond recovery. I bought the expensive Pro Max 512GB version, so am usually treating it like a precious tablet/planner, to be kept hidden away from the attention of thieves, pickpockets, and armed robbers, while mostly continuing to use my remaining 7 Plus for most publicly-visible tasks. (I do carry two iPhones, each with a different service provider.)

Yes, the iPhone 11 Pro Max is a quite capable camera, from the wide to normal angles of view. It is still annoying to manipulate, as a camera, and offers no telephoto. Even for landscapes, I now tend to like using telephoto lenses. The night-shooting capabilities are probably the most novel thing, that I would like to try soon, when I can get well away from the city lights.

Even if not for thieves, robbers, and my clumsy hands, an iPhone is a single point of failure, for a device that performs so many tasks, and all of these tasks are consuming the nourishment from one battery.

So, these newest iPhones have yet to displace anything that I am doing with cameras.



Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: ColinM on December 06, 2019, 23:17:36
... they have virtually no controls, yet are able to do 90%+ of the things that 90%+ of the population used to think you needed a desktop computer for. ...

I'm just catching up, so sorry for the delayed response.

I'd have to challenge the statement above.
Both Smart Phones and tablets mean I go on my desktop & laptop computers less and less.

But I use the modern devices despite how poor the UI is, not because it's almost as good.
As soon as I want any finesse on how I take a picture, or type anything longer than a sentence, I get really frustrated with my phone & tablet.

...the iPhone 11 Pro Max is a quite capable camera ...[but].. is still annoying to manipulate.

Absolutely Rex

My biggest bugbear is the on-screen keyboard. I was far more fluent with the previous phones that had physical keyboards. Increasingly I resort to voice recognition (which both my desktop & laptop also offer, so no edge there). And just as that improves the accuracy of text input, increasingly brain-dead auto-correct messes things up.

Grrrr!

Yes, I am grateful to have these devices available. But frustrated too  :)



Title: Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
Post by: RobOK on December 08, 2019, 15:43:09
What’s Apps are you using for iOS camera? I sometimes use default app or lately Lightroom Mobile for camera app.