NikonGear

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: atpaula on April 20, 2019, 21:02:06

Title: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: atpaula on April 20, 2019, 21:02:06
Nikon releases its updated flagship model each 2 years, usually.
Now there is more than 3 years since the D5 appeared.
Why is that? Is there going to exist a D6?
Why Nikon started the mirrorless lineup with the Z6 and not with a Z1?
And about the new lenses 14-30mm and Noct? Maybe on summer, not spring.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on April 20, 2019, 21:19:20
Nikon seem to have skipped the minor update (a D5s). The major models in that series (D3/D4/D5/...) are launched at four-year intervals roughly aligned with the Summer Olympics.

The 14-30 is said to be shipping.

The Z6 and Z7 seem to be positioned in the enthusiast body group, roughly comparable to D6xx and D7xx. I would imagine that's where the numbers come from. There will be lower end models (with smaller Z numbers) and higher end models (with larger Z numbers).
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Akira on April 20, 2019, 23:23:34
The 14-30 has already been shipped, but the initial lot seems to be sold out.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Hugh_3170 on April 22, 2019, 05:15:22
So in good time for 2020?  ;D

Nikon seem to have skipped the minor update (a D5s). The major models in that series (D3/D4/D5/...) are launched at four-year intervals roughly aligned with the Summer Olympics.

.........................................................................
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: richardHaw on April 22, 2019, 07:29:10
still happy with the F6  ::)

the D6 should come out before the end of this year :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on April 23, 2019, 12:45:34
So in good time for 2020?  ;D

Yes, I would expect a D6 to be announced this year (or at least development announced) and released at latest late winter or early spring 2020.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: chambeshi on April 25, 2019, 09:06:21
There is a parallel thread on FM speculating (which is intriguing) about recent NR rumours. Namely, that the D6 might have IBIS, and a delay with optimizing the buffer. IBIS on a DSLR must still contend with mirror-slap. This leads to the possibility  of a hybrid OVF-EVF, or rather an OVF in which EVF can be seen. Perhaps analogous to Lv. The D850 already set the trend
The rumour about the buffer could mean a higher resolution sensor, thus challenging the buffer.  Nikon appear to have capped the D500 buffer at 200frames to avoid damage if the camera has an AD unheard in a bag (ie like a notorious runaway Accidental Discharge on a  beltfed machinegun). This suggests the buffer with XQD writespeeds are not constrained by a stream of 20mp images (at least at 10fps). Not sure about the limits to the buffer D5, though, at its 14fps but it can get to 200
Anyway, whatever the form of D6 we see by Tokyo 2020, prices of used D4's and D4s's will drop  ;D Also the D5  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: chambeshi on August 30, 2019, 12:35:17
As per Nikon's tactics, the D6 will be priced up in the stratosphere, but we can expect its features will trickle down into new DSLRs and also MILCs

https://nikonrumors.com/2019/07/03/another-set-of-rumored-nikon-d6-specifications.aspx/#ixzz5y4xLU8fN

Potential announcement in early 2020
Prototypes already in testing
Adding sensor stabilization delayed the D6 announcement
The D6 will definitely not be a "hybrid" camera, but rather a DSLR with some mirrorless features (better video, IBIS for example)
Dual CFExpress memory card slots
.76-78x 100% viewfinder
New Expeed dual processors
Better/improved AF than the current D5
Built-in Wi-Fi
3.2 million dot touch screen, with full touch capabilities
Excellent/improved silent shooting modes

Latest rumour says Nikon will announce their D6 next week - 4 September
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/08/30/nikon-d6-to-be-announced-on-september-4th.aspx/
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: atpaula on August 30, 2019, 17:10:48
I'm so happy with my Z6 that I believe I'll never buy a DSLR again. Even the D6 that was supposed to be released a while ago. But I should never say never.
Anyway, I'm a Nikon user for more than 40 years and don't like to see how it is more and more behind Canon, and even Sony.
Canon announced the development of two lenses in February and I read somewhere that they can be ordered already.
Nikon announced the new Noct one year ago! No signs of it. Ok, they promised it for 2019 and it will be on schedule until Dec 31th.
The PF lenses are not available anywhere.
What happens when customers don't find a product? They tend to look somewhere or something else.
 I do not own Nikon company shares. Just a unhappy user with this situation.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Netr on August 30, 2019, 22:52:04
Formal announcement due next week.
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/08/30/nikon-d6-to-be-announced-on-september-4th.aspx/#more-137757
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Akira on August 31, 2019, 13:37:06
Formal announcement due next week.
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/08/30/nikon-d6-to-be-announced-on-september-4th.aspx/#more-137757

I've always been skeptical about the IBIS in a DSLR.  With the IBIS on, you are not guaranteed that the sensor is always centered when you release the shutter.  In addition, there is no way to know how much the sensor is shifted, so long as you are looking into the optical viewfinder.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 31, 2019, 21:31:40
It is good that D6 will be announced (as D5s was skipped), will take time anyway until it is available  it will be 2020 so the regular interval - good that there is some continuiety left.
I am waiting for it to replace my D4S and hope it is a significant improvement over the D5 especially in AF and speed and I hope there wont be flaws. Would not need IBIS and Akira gave me additional sceptical thought. Hope that it does not make issues at least when turned off.

BTW: Currently there is no Z-line camera that can do what the D5 or D500 can achieve in terms of AF-Speed and they are not competitive with the Sony A9, Hopefully a future Z9 will be. Z-line Cameras feel unbalanced combined with "big glass" Superteles btw.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 31, 2019, 21:53:21
I'm a Nikon user for more than 40 years and don't like to see how it is more and more behind Canon, and even Sony.
Canon announced the development of two lenses in February and I read somewhere that they can be ordered already.
Nikon announced the new Noct one year ago! No signs of it. Ok, they promised it for 2019 and it will be on schedule until Dec 31th.
The PF lenses are not available anywhere.
What happens when customers don't find a product? They tend to look somewhere or something else.
 I do not own Nikon company shares. Just a unhappy user with this situation.
I second that. And Nikon has made a lot of mistakes and appears to be in a seriously risky position now. Just to add a few points:
The DL-Series flop, No Cooplix P3xx available any more,The Sony RX100 took this field (yes this compact market is shrinking but Nikon lost more)
The Nikon 1 Series had more potential- they failed
The D850, great camera, but not available in numbers until it was somewhat cannibalized (pricewise) by the Z7
Now the Z-Series is far off from being established, there is no lightweight compact lenses on the roadmap so far, there is no native macro/closeup capability  foreseeable (same as it was with the Nikon 1) exacerbated by the fact that the Nikon F System is suffering there as well (no stellar macro lens, very good 60mm, ambiguous 105mm, 200mm still the screwdriver version, 70-180 listed out since years - no replacement)

Good news: D6 will come
Not so good: Latest rumors say that  3 or even 5 SLR lines will be skipped (including the D500) also including those DX models that were important for the mass market and providing compact lightweight combos, they might be gone before the gap is filled.

Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: fish_shooter on September 01, 2019, 01:34:36
If a lot of the advancements in the D6 require live view then either the OVF should be a hybrid and offer LV through it or there should be an accessory EVF. Such an accessory could likely be made from the same components used in the excellent Z EVFs. The main question is where/how to attach it to the D6, the flash shoe or something else (recall the flash shoes that fit over the rewind crank, e.g., F2 (may still have one of these). It would be way cool if it could tilt when mounted.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on September 03, 2019, 12:32:06
I've always been skeptical about the IBIS in a DSLR.  With the IBIS on, you are not guaranteed that the sensor is always centered when you release the shutter.  In addition, there is no way to know how much the sensor is shifted, so long as you are looking into the optical viewfinder.

That's true but the movement range is really small; I'm unconvinced that one can really compose with that kind of precision based on the optical viewfinder, anyway. Much of the time I refine the framing in post-processing, rather than work really hard to try to align everything perfectly in areas close to the edges of the frame when things are happening and miss more essential parts such as composition, subject expression, emotion etc.

Personally I don't need this feature but I will use it when the situation benefits from it, if made available. I believe this has been one of the most popular innovations of the recent decade among many users. One can always turn the in-camera VR off.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Akira on September 03, 2019, 13:35:55
That's true but the movement range is really small; I'm unconvinced that one can really compose with that kind of precision based on the optical viewfinder, anyway. Much of the time I refine the framing in post-processing, rather than work really hard to try to align everything perfectly in areas close to the edges of the frame when things are happening and miss more essential parts such as composition, subject expression, emotion etc.

Personally I don't need this feature but I will use it when the situation benefits from it, if made available. I believe this has been one of the most popular innovations of the recent decade among many users. One can always turn the in-camera VR off.

I remember reading an interview to Pentax engineers, and they said that the sensor would move about 5mm.  That was not long after Pentax released their first APS-C format DSLR with IBIS, and there wasn't even any rumor of them releasing a full-frame DSLR.

Although I would believe that they meant +/-2.5mm (not +/-5mm) around the center of the optical axis, it could be safe to assume that a full-size sensor would move 1.5x more, which should be more significant than the level of "precision framing".
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Seapy on September 03, 2019, 13:51:12
You should be able to work out the amount of sensor movement from the amount of image blur it can remove.  I think it will be microns, not millimetres, the energy required to move the sensor sufficiently quickly and the inertia involved with 5mm of movement would be untenable.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on September 03, 2019, 14:20:29
I read this on another forum "The Pentax K-1 has sensor-shift image stabilization, allowing movements of up to 1.5mm in any direction — so, the sensor can be within a space of 36+1.5+1.5 by 24+1.5+1.5, or 39×27mm. That means the minimum image circle diameter to avoid problems is 47.4mm "

1.5 mm off-center is not that much so that it would ruin a photograph, I usually try to have much more margin of error around the edges of my composition than that. But the compositional error that results from in-camera VR use is likely to be much smaller than that.

There is no way typical full-frame lenses have 5mm extra image circle for in-camera VR implementation either in radius or diameter. On APS-C the situation is different as the sensor is not only lighter (thus more easily moved about) but the user then uses lenses that cover full-frame sensor so that creates the opportunity to larger range of compensation that's not available when using full frame sensors, unless of course one mounts medium format lenses on the camera.

This video shows Sony's version and its range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ncye37e6xM

Since in a DSLR, there is no point in moving the sensor during optical viewfinder viewing, the sensor should start at zero shift just before the shutter opens, and only move during the exposure. (At this point there should be no error between sensor position and what the viewfinder shows). The aim of the stabilization is to keep the content steady in the sensor plane, so any framing error would be small. How much start-up time the system needs, I don't know, if it is substantial then there could be a slight framing error, but it is not likely to be anywhere near the limit of the movement of the system since then it would not be able to move in all directions to correct for movement.

The drawback that I can see from in-camera VR combined with OVF is that the user cannot optimize their hand-holding to work together with the effect of the VR system to produce the best overall stability of the image; the user has to try to keep the viewfinder steady without the help of in-camera VR and then the VR system has to try to correct for the residual movement on its own, without co-operation of the user. When using a lens with optical VR, the VR system is active during viewing and at least my hand-holding technique adopts to the VR available so that the view is held steady but I don't try to compensate for the micro-vibration that I would try to compensate for when using a lens without VR. So, the system might not work as optimally together with the photographer as it can when the viewfinder shows the effect of the stabilization. But that remains to be seen, how effective the system is.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Akira on September 03, 2019, 20:57:06
You should be able to work out the amount of sensor movement from the amount of image blur it can remove.  I think it will be microns, not millimetres, the energy required to move the sensor sufficiently quickly and the inertia involved with 5mm of movement would be untenable.

I think that the amount of the blur should be in millimeter order, judging from the movement of the image in the OVF when I hold the camera with 200-300mm telephoto lenses.

This video shows Sony's version and its range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ncye37e6xM

Since in a DSLR, there is no point in moving the sensor during optical viewfinder viewing, the sensor should start at zero shift just before the shutter opens, and only move during the exposure. (At this point there should be no error between sensor position and what the viewfinder shows). The aim of the stabilization is to keep the content steady in the sensor plane, so any framing error would be small. How much start-up time the system needs, I don't know, if it is substantial then there could be a slight framing error, but it is not likely to be anywhere near the limit of the movement of the system since then it would not be able to move in all directions to correct for movement.

Apparently (or obviously), the sensor is moving more than 1.5mm, especially horizontally and vertically.  It would need to move that far to compensate for the image blur.

The problem is that the image magnification factor of the full-frame format is 1.5x greater than that of the APS-C format, which means that the amount of the compensation (=sensor movement) should be larger.

Moving the sensor prior to the shutter release in a DSLR would be pointless, but, the sensor centered when the shutter is released should mean that the image is not stabilized.  Also, if the stabilization process starts with the centered position, the sensor is inevitably off-center at the moment of the image capture.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Roland Vink on September 03, 2019, 22:25:29
I read this on another forum "The Pentax K-1 has sensor-shift image stabilization, allowing movements of up to 1.5mm in any direction — so, the sensor can be within a space of 36+1.5+1.5 by 24+1.5+1.5, or 39×27mm. That means the minimum image circle diameter to avoid problems is 47.4mm "
This also means the mirror box and shutter curtains need to be bigger. As others have said, when using the OVF, the sensor is likely to remain centred until the shutter is tripped so maybe the amount of sensor travel required is reduced further (+/- 1mm?).

There could be some restrictions on when IBIS can be used. For example, it might only work in 4:5 or DX crop modes, which means the image remains within the 43.5mm image circle that FX lenses are designed for. Or it might only work with telephotos which tend to have larger image circles (and need image stabilisation more). Or maybe IBIS only works in live view mode? It will be interesting to see how the Nikon engineers solve this one :)
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Netr on September 04, 2019, 06:31:43
The announcement: http://www.nikon-asia.com/en_Asia/about/product_news/da-d6-af-s-nikkor-120-300mm

Marketing fail.  No details on the D6 except that they are developing one, which we already knew.

The new 120-300mm f/2.8 FL lens will be F mount, so don't write off the DSLRs yet.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: chambeshi on September 04, 2019, 20:39:00
http://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-pre-announces-the-d6.html
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Ann on September 05, 2019, 02:25:05
As I remember it, the Nikon pattern with D# models has been:

September (in Pre Summer Olympics Year): Preliminary announcement.

Fall: Teaser-advertising of the "It's coming" variety.

December: Pricing and full specifications are announced and a small number of the new model may be released.

Early months of Olympic Year: Intensive advertising and examples from images shot by Beta testers.

End of March: Production in full-swing and Shipments begin.

I am rather expecting that the same pattern will unfold for the D6.


Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Mexecutioner on September 24, 2019, 00:21:50
Are you getting one Ann?
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Ann on September 24, 2019, 03:00:33
How nice to hear from you!

The D5 has handled every situation that I have thrown at it so a D6 is not currently on my front-burner.
I am so thoroughly content with my D5 and can't imagine that a D6 could be sufficiently better endowed to persuade me to make what I expect to be rather expensive purchase.

If I was currently using something older than the D5, it would be a different matter!
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: golunvolo on September 24, 2019, 13:58:26
If I remember correctly Ann, you keep using happily two D3S until the D5 was available?
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Ann on September 24, 2019, 20:25:45
You do remember correctly!

There comes a point where the leap is too big to ignore: the D5 when compared to the D3S (still a very fine camera*) was a case in point.

The D3 was an earlier great leap: its arrival was the tipping point between film and digital for me.

I expect the D6 will be a fabulous machine but find it hard to believe that it will be such a major advance over the D5 that it becomes an essential purchase.

* I recently passed on a D3S to a young biologist (who is also an aspiring Professional photographer) and she is doing wonderful things with that camera!

Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Mexecutioner on September 25, 2019, 20:08:43
I think I enjoyed the D3 more than any other camera. It opened many doors for me and I always looked at the files in amazement. Right when it came out I was convinced there were many scenarios no other camera could handle so well and the most challenging shots became way easier. I agree with you, at this point in the game the incremental evolution calls for skipping one generation, however one has to wonder if the D6 will be the last true pro DSLR Nikon will offer?
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: MILLIREHM on September 25, 2019, 20:20:08
I entered the line with the D4S and skipped the D5, waited for a D5s which did not come
But the D6 probably will be the next step.
Not easy to say whether it will be the last one - i hope it wont because i dont think Mirrorless makes SLR/native F mount Cameras  obsolete. The F6 was the last one but that does not need to be prejudice.
Currently there are no mirrorless competitors for the D5 series at least in house with maybe the Sony A9  as an exception. We will see if a Nikon Z9 will manage to match
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: pluton on September 25, 2019, 20:51:39
I think I enjoyed the D3 more than any other camera. It opened many doors for me and I always looked at the files in amazement.
I had a similar experience with the D3.  It was a very good imager in a great body.  Too bad I needed more pixels;  in 4.5 years, I had only put about 35,000 shutter cycles on each of the 2 D3's I had before I sold them.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: MFloyd on September 26, 2019, 10:14:49
D6 is on the shopping list, and should be available around March, I guess. I will probably keep the D5.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: MFloyd on February 11, 2020, 19:21:30
D6 photos leaked:

(https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Nikon-D6-DSLR-camera-1.jpg)

(https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Nikon-D6-DSLR-camera-2.jpg)

(https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Nikon-D6-DSLR-camera-3.jpg)

Source: NikonRumors - Nokishita
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: Mike G on February 11, 2020, 20:00:46
That camera looks huge!
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: John Geerts on February 11, 2020, 20:07:02
I don't think the size will be much different than the Nikon D3s. The D5 was 1,5mm higher  and 4mm wider.  D5 was 160 * 158.5 * 92mm  and 1415 gr.
Title: Re: Nikon D6 is coming?
Post by: MFloyd on February 12, 2020, 09:18:49
More here https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-cameras/d6.html