NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: bobfriedman on October 28, 2018, 22:03:13
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the working distance for this lens (rather object to image plane) with the f-mount adapter is about 800mm.... is there another XR-Heligon with a long working distance like this one?.. my other x-ray lenses (given the nikon flange distance) are much shorter.
Thought i would try this one on the D850.. subject of convenience and not something i use personally although i hear it attracts tigers due to the scent of civet included in the formula.
Nikon D850 ,Rodenstock Heligon 100mm f/1.6
1/25s f/1.6 at 100.0mm iso100
(http://www.pbase.com/bobfriedman/image/168324000/original.jpg)
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The 95/1.4 is almost the same.
Beware of the 100/1.5, it is an entirely different animal and the focused distance is short.
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The 95/1.4 is almost the same.
Beware of the 100/1.5, it is an entirely different animal and the focused distance is short.
Thank you!.. will check around for a 95/1.4
I have the 100/1.5 by the way.. i think...
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any idea on the 120/1.8 ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-XR-Heligon-120mm-1-8-Lens/223180306885?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
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Not familiar with that one, perhaps Klaus has more info on it?
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Not familiar with that one, perhaps Klaus has more info on it?
thx.. emailed him
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the XR-Heligon i used.. i am pretty sure this a f/1.6
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WRT the subject, perhaps the intention was to attract cougars. ;)
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WRT the subject, perhaps the intention was to attract cougars. ;)
perhaps that is why it didn't work... :)
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The 100/1.5 (heligon) & 42mm/.75 (kowa) have such short working distances that I never found them useful so was up for some experimentation. By opening them up and removing different lens elements I was able to get more useful working distance out of them. I was able to get them to focus to infinity in fact with certain combinations, with plenty of issues that came along with that. If I remember correctly removing one of the rear most lenses seemed to maintain quality & increase working distance. Outside of that results varied wildly.
The 100mm XR-Heligon you have pictured here can simply be reversed with varying levels of extension added to gain a longer working distance, all the way to infinity. Plenty of side effects will come along with doing so and may not be of much use to you but keeping in mind that these lenses are generally used to create abnormal artifacts in your images, it may be worth a try. I have not attempted to open up the 100/1.6.
Here is some lipstick to go with your cologne, also shot with the 100mm/1.6 XR-Heligon
(https://3db0168ff6984c99925f-1e09028cb6ee58c67e81540b8d00d98e.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/_DSC6942.jpg)
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Great work Bob!
I had posted all my RODENSTOCK data files to photomacrography.net which give all the needed details of such lenses:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=240037 (http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=240037) or directly as files listing here: https://photomacrography.net/archives/heligonlensdocs/ (https://photomacrography.net/archives/heligonlensdocs/)
Btw. here is a russian source about your lens, showing how it was modified to give a larger working distance:
https://avtor-page.livejournal.com/5141.html (https://avtor-page.livejournal.com/5141.html) - use google translate
I still have a few sitting around here, but my interests have changed ;-)
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Quite a capable lens this f1.6/100mm is, with a very useful back focal distance...
Mine now focuses from a bit over infinity to approx. 400mm .. on a mft camera.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4833/31430753497_1ab940e0ab_o.jpg)
it has quite a bit CA...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4827/44552928400_0453d546c6_o.jpg)
but a very smooth bokeh...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4875/31430753247_430e373d10_o.jpg)
and a fabulous BG separation.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4874/44552929540_7594b0a179_o.jpg)
Full set is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157704765799625 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157704765799625)
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the XR-Heligon i used.. i am pretty sure this a f/1.6
I have the same 100/1.6 Rodenstock Heligon. With the cat. no. 4401.333.824.00 which does not match with the Heligon data Klaus has collected, or have I misread something. ?
Is this the XR- version?
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There seems to be a couple versions of this lens. I also have the 4401.33.824.00 version (see the picture in Bob's post #6). The current ebay listings of this lens state "Laser Optics" in the description and I've never seen actual confirmation that it is an f/1.6 as the aperture is not listed on the lens itself. Nor does it state that it is XR-Heligon, just Heligon.
Then there is the version that has 1:1.6 written on the barrel (see the diagram in Bob's post #6). Birna has also posted pictures of her version recently which appears to be the same as the one in the diagram and has 1:1.6 written on the barrel. I'm not sure which version Klaus uses(?)
From what I can tell from past discussions and viewing images from both they behave in very similar ways in regards to focal distance (approx. 3 feet on an F mount DSLR) and image characteristics. I don't think I've ever seen the 1:1.6 version available and surmise it to be the less common of the two. What the actual differences are I do not know as I haven't seen any diagrams for the 4401.33.824.00 version.
Side note: More common than either of these and a different lens entirely is the 100mm f1.5 which comes in many forms and can only achieve a focal distance of a few inches on an F mount DSLR, perhaps this version will prove to be useful on the Z6/7
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so I really don't know if it is f/1.6 or not.. but it probably doesn't matter.. what matters is the working distance in my mind.
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True Bob.
I have the same one, only a few numbers away from your serial number: 11603626
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Nikon D850 ,Rodenstock Heligon 100mm f/1.6
1/30s f/1.6 at 100.0mm iso100
cropped
(http://www.pbase.com/image/168567540/original.jpg)
added PK-11a ring
(http://www.pbase.com/image/168567665/original.jpg)
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Full frame with only the k2-ring on the Heligon
D850 100/1.6 1/100 iso3600
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nice one!
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There seems to be a couple versions of this lens. I also have the 4401.33.824.00 version (see the picture in Bob's post #6). The current ebay listings of this lens state "Laser Optics" in the description and I've never seen actual confirmation that it is an f/1.6 as the aperture is not listed on the lens itself. Nor does it state that it is XR-Heligon, just Heligon.
Then there is the version that has 1:1.6 written on the barrel (see the diagram in Bob's post #6). Birna has also posted pictures of her version recently which appears to be the same as the one in the diagram and has 1:1.6 written on the barrel. I'm not sure which version Klaus uses(?)
From what I can tell from past discussions and viewing images from both they behave in very similar ways in regards to focal distance (approx. 3 feet on an F mount DSLR) and image characteristics. I don't think I've ever seen the 1:1.6 version available and surmise it to be the less common of the two. What the actual differences are I do not know as I haven't seen any diagrams for the 4401.33.824.00 version.
Side note: More common than either of these and a different lens entirely is the 100mm f1.5 which comes in many forms and can only achieve a focal distance of a few inches on an F mount DSLR, perhaps this version will prove to be useful on the Z6/7
Mine also was sold as "laser optics" which is just lack of knowledge of the seller I assume. Mine does not have a M48 thread mount on its end, but otherwise just looks like an industrial version with slightly modified mechanics of that documented f1.6/100m on my published data set.
Nice results guys!
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My 100/1.6 XR-Heligon is labelled as such and has 48mm threads at the rear. The 100/1.5 is superficially similar (apart from the printed specification on the barrel), but significantly heavier believe it or not
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I dug up the Heligon after years of neglect with the idea to use it on the Z6.
Erik glued a K4 ring with 52mm female thread to the Heligon and with an assortment of adapter rings I end up with the Leica M mount so I can use my Voigtlander VM/E focusing helicoid in combination with the Novoflex M39/LEM extensions rings, focus is now roughly 3 meters without extensions and as close as 25cm fully extended.
It should go to infinity focus with a direct female 52mm to Leica M adapter ring but was unable to find one back then, currently it is female m52>M43, M43>M39 and M39 to Leica M.
Maybe someone has a good suggestion for a slimmer setup with at least one less adapter ring, getting to 10 meters or so would already be a nice bonus :)
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You might put an Z mount directly on the end of your focusing adapter -- that'll shave off extension and allow focus to infinity.
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I dug up the Heligon after years of neglect with the idea to use it on the Z6.
Erik glued a K4 ring with 52mm female thread to the Heligon and with an assortment of adapter rings I end up with the Leica M mount so I can use my Voigtlander VM/E focusing helicoid in combination with the Novoflex M39/LEM extensions rings, focus is now roughly 3 meters without extensions and as close as 25cm fully extended.
It should go to infinity focus with a direct female 52mm to Leica M adapter ring but was unable to find one back then, currently it is female m52>M43, M43>M39 and M39 to Leica M.
Maybe someone has a good suggestion for a slimmer setup with at least one less adapter ring, getting to 10 meters or so would already be a nice bonus :)
well done Jan Anne!
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Thanks Birna but would really like to end up with a slimmer Leica M solution for the Heligon as I've normalised most of my MF lenses to that mount.
This allowed me to use the mentioned helicoid and extensions rings also on the 50/1.2 and 85/1.2FD and could even use the TechArt autofocus adapter for the Heligon :)
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A few quick snapshots of the Heligon installed on a proper camera (Z6) using the Novoflex NIK Z/LEM adapter which was just delivered.
As Novoflex isn't a helicoid adapter like the one I used on the Sony focus is now roughly 30cm with all the extensions rings in place instead of 25cm.
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Looks like you got way too much extension Jan Anne? If you shorten that, wouldn't you get a more suitable focusing range?
Mine focuses from like 20cm up to infinity...
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Hi Klaus, the focus distance is now 30cm to 3 meters depending on how many extensions rings are installed, for practical use I will probably end up somewhere in the middle.
If you know a shorter solution btw to mount the Heligon with 52mm threads to a Z6 which enables infinity focus I'm all ears, I failed to do so on the Sony a few years ago but maybe there are other solutions out there now which allow a solution with more focus range beyond 3 meters :)
Details of the adapter rings currently in use are mentioned here:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,8043.msg135042.html#msg135042
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Hi Klaus, the focus distance is now 30cm to 3 meters depending on how many extensions rings are installed, for practical use I will probably end up somewhere in the middle.
If you know a shorter solution btw to mount the Heligon with 52mm threads to a Z6 which enables infinity focus I'm all ears, I failed to do so on the Sony a few years ago but maybe there are other solutions out there now which allow a solution with more focus range beyond 3 meters :)
Details of the adapter rings currently in use are mentioned here:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,8043.msg135042.html#msg135042
I will be away for a week Jan-Anne, when I'm back I will let you have some pointers for an alternative solution!
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Nikon D850 ,Rodenstock Heligon 100mm f/1.6
1/30s f/1.6 at 100.0mm iso100
added PK-11a ring
(http://www.pbase.com/image/168567665/original.jpg)
WOW, Bob. I really like this very much. An exceptional camera with an exceptional lens.
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thank you frank.. I should probably use it more often!