NikonGear'23
The NikonGear Office => Site Issues => Topic started by: HCS on July 17, 2015, 21:58:02
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When i try to login with the login box on the top right hand side of the opening page, i often get a password incorrect (or something like that) error. I am then presented with a login screen, where i enter my password (the same obviously) and now all is well.
I'm using Firefox browser on OSX 10.10.4, NG in the Revival Light theme.
Is there something wrong?
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Hm. Maybe it helps to flush the browser cache? sometimes old stuff might cause issues.
I do have noticed a lot of login errors for you and a few other members (these attempts wind up in the system error log).
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OK, i'll give that a try.
I haven't had such issues though anywhere else. I actually have never deleted the browser cache since the last OS installation.
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Just a suggestion - give it a try and make sure to report back whether or not the situation improves.
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Just a suggestion - give it a try and make sure to report back whether or not the situation improves.
Of course, it'll have to wait until tomorrow or so, though ;)
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It went OK for a couple of days, but today i had it again. In the logging you may see more events, but i'm logging on from 2 computers, i didn't clean out the cache (at first) on the other machine.
So, cleaning the cache doesn't seem to solve it.
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Are you sure the right passwords are stored by the different browsers?
I log in from 4 different devices and never experienced any issues.
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There are currently 4 members being logged as having password issues during the last 2-3 weeks.
HCS, James Fitzgerald, Paulraymaekers, and Martine Henry.
Evidently all of them cannot have these issues all the time, as they are logged as being active later than the failed login(s).
Could any of these members please reset their password and try logging in again?
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Could any of these members please reset their password and try logging in again?
I'll give that a try, i'll report back.
By the way, i'm not having the browser fill my password. I always hand type it and in the NG case i make extra, extra sure i type the right one.
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I did change my password yesterday and logged out and back in again. That went well.
Today, i wanted to login via the login dialog homepage top right and again it failed. Same password in 2nd screen works (of course).
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An enigma. I have no rational explanation. Perhaps when Andrea returns after her summer vacation, she can look into this.
I log into NG from various devices positioned in several locations and never have had any similar happen to me.
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OK, no problem. Let's indeed wait for Andrea. Other than that ... not the end of the world.
Thanks for looking into this.
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Ignore me if I'm wrong. Aren't you trying to log in while your another machine is already logged in? If so, there could be a problem.
I access to the forum via two different divices (Win7 desktop PC and iPad Air 2), but I always log out when I switch the device.
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Ignore me if I'm wrong. Aren't you trying to log in while your another machine is already logged in? If so, there could be a problem.
I access to the forum via two different divices (Win7 desktop PC and iPad Air 2), but I always log out when I switch the device.
I will certainly not ignore you Sir ;D
I may have tried to do that on some occasions, but certainly not on other occasions when the error did happen. So, that may explain some of the mishaps, but IMO not all.
But, a good pointer.
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Hans, thanks for the further description of the behavior. Then I have no clue, unfortunately...
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There should be no need to log out everytime you switch devices.
I never log out and can seemlesly switch between a Windows PC, a Mac, iPhone and iPad. Also no problems when using these devices at the same time.
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There should be no need to log out everytime you switch devices.
I never log out and can seemlesly switch between a Windows PC, a Mac, iPhone and iPad. Also no problems when using these devices at the same time.
Really? I've believed that wouldn't work, and I've never failed to log out of any forum when I switch devices. Is that rather normal?
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Cleared the cache on my MacbookAir. This seems have resolved the issue for me.
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As only a handful of people are logged as getting issues with incorrect passwords, and the same persons are involved over and over again, there must be a common denominator somewhere. I can only think of caching (which can occur at several levels, internal to your machine, browser, local network, or any proxies present). Site DB corruption can also be considered, but in the unlikely event should it occur, changing passwords would solve that immediately.
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Really? I've believed that wouldn't work, and I've never failed to log out of any forum when I switch devices. Is that rather normal?
I never log out on any site and never experienced any problems :)
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As only a handful of people are logged as getting issues with incorrect passwords, and the same persons are involved over and over again, there must be a common denominator somewhere. I can only think of caching (which can occur at several levels, internal to your machine, browser, local network, or any proxies present). Site DB corruption can also be considered, but in the unlikely event should it occur, changing passwords would solve that immediately.
I can see that. I did clear the browser cache on both my machines (both OSX, both Firefox). Could it actually be a browser issue? I'll give the apple thing a try.
By the way, i've noticed that the top right login box shows "forever" for login time, while the separate login page shows a value (in seconds or minutes?).
I'll switch browser and report back. Perhaps the others can report the browser they're using.
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Hans, I am using google chrome on my mac. I ticked the box "forever" and I don't have any issues.
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I use Firefox on different desktops and Chrome on a laptop and on Android. I never had any issues. And yes I thicked 'forever'. Dislike it to do unnecessary logins ;)
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I never log out on any site and never experienced any problems :)
Okay, I'll try. Thanks, Jan!
ADDED:
This additional comment is posted from Safari on my iPad Air 2 with my desktop PC still logged in on IE11, which seems to be of no problem.
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Currently, we have no blocks in place which prevent multiple logins from different machines. So feel free to stay logged in if you like. (However, see end of this post.)
When I'm using my Password Protector App, I sometimes get login failures on Nikongear
because I need to refresh cache for the automated fill-ins to work.
Today I've been using direct login with the upper right corner boxes - several times - and cannot produce any failures on Firefox.
There have not been any recent database errors. Last one was back in June.
There are ALWAYS a lot of login screw-ups because of typos in either user name or password.
Done it myself a few times. ;D :o ::)
My usual practice to prevent overload of cookies-which-spy, junk pile-up and overloaded temp files, is to shut down all apps at the end of the day and then run something like CCleaner to clear out everything.
Good practice because it keeps your machine cleaner and apps run faster.
CCleaner runs only on Mac I think. But there are gazillions of good junk and cache cleaners "out there".
If you don't clean up daily, at least consider cleaning up once a week.
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I still get the error on the top right login box, but not on the second page.
I get that typos ruin the "login experience", but of course i've double and triple checked my password. I've even changed it on Bjørn's suggestion. He also suggested to clear out the caches, which i did. All to no avail.
So, as long as you as admin don't worry, i'll live with this.
Thanks for looking into this though, i know how much time this kind of issue can take. Simple on the surface, but not so really (i'm an IT nerd, so that's why i have this experience as well).
By the way, it's no problem for me to login from multiple devices, so my problem is not in that area.
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Intermittent issues that are almost impossible to reproduce cause premature grey hair if the hair hasn't already been pulled out in despair ....
I'm more or less permanently logged into NG from at least 6 different boxes running on various Windows and Linux OS, and never had any login issue. The additional login to access the Admin section of the NG site, however, times out every 60 minutes presumably as a security measure, so I have to log in again if I want to go there. However, the stored password is remembered so actually is just an additional <enter> or mouse click, and the ordinary login meanwhile is live throughout.
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HCS: Perhaps you might give me a bit of data in order to attempt replicating your login experience??
- What browser are you using?
- Is browser up to date?
- Do you use any broswer plug-ins which prevent popups or logins?
- What machine/device are you using?
- What OS is running on your device?
- Do you use any automated login apps which store name/password?
- Are you using any special characters in your password?
Thank you!! I will try to look into this because it interests me and - of course ;D - because we don't want our members having these kinds of problems.
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HCS: Perhaps you might give me a bit of data in order to attempt replicating your login experience??
- What browser are you using?
- Is browser up to date?
- Do you use any broswer plug-ins which prevent popups or logins?
- What machine/device are you using?
- What OS is running on your device?
- Do you use any automated login apps which store name/password?
- Are you using any special characters in your password?
Thank you!! I will try to look into this because it interests me and - of course ;D - because we don't want our members having these kinds of problems.
In order of appearance:
Firefox
Yes
Not that i'm aware of
MacBook Pro and MacPro
OSX 10.10.5 (but had problems also with 10.4)
No
just alpha numerics and numerics
Hope this helps. Otherwise PM me, maybe i can share more details if required.
Thanks again for your persistence.
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And if all things fail you have three admins present at the upcoming NG event for "onsite" support :)
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And if all things fail you have three admins present at the upcoming NG event for "onsite" support :)
;D ;D ;D
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I have also suddenly problems with logging in. It will not accept my username and/or password (which is the same as it always has been). To get in I need the site to send me a mail with an activation link, where I set a new password (the same as I have used previously).
No changes in browser or operating systems. Firefox and Win7. Nikongear.net is allowed to set cookies. Adblock active.
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Hans - thanks!!
The coincidental thing here is that I'm using the identical setup - except I am a couple of OS behind you - still on 10.8.5 on my MacPro.
Your info leaves me baffled however. Why do I never experience Login difficulties with this setup, but you do????
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I have also suddenly problems with logging in. It will not accept my username and/or password (which is the same as it always has been). To get in I need the site to send me a mail with an activation link, where I set a new password (the same as I have used previously).
No changes in browser or operating systems. Firefox and Win7. Nikongear.net is allowed to set cookies. Adblock active.
I had the exact same experience on mi iMac the other day. And I did exactly the same, i reset the same password.
It was really strange because it happened at home where I opened up my mac book and didn't have any problems...
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... Why do I never experience Login difficulties with this setup, but you do????
I can only guess. Do you by any chance have a different value than "Forever" in the duration box on the home page login part? I have the feeling that plays a role somehow. When i'm directed to the separate login page, the value changes to an integer of minutes to remain logged on. I'd be curious if that's controlled by a setting somewhere in the config of the site.
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The session length can be chosen from the drop-down menu (see small arrow) next to the login boxes in the upper-right corner. The choices are 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month and Forever. If you do nothing, the session length setting defaults to "Forever", and the separate login page will show "Minutes to stay logged in" as a value of 3153600. (To see all of that value, you must scroll within the little value box.)
Therefore, we see that our forum software thinks that Forever means 3153600 Minutes = 52560 Hours = 2190 Days = 6 Years. In internet time it's probably true that 6 years is pretty close to forever in terms of trying to stay logged in.
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Next time you experience some kind of login problem, please try clearing out any Nikongear cookies as well as clearing your browser cache.
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The session length can be chosen from the drop-down menu (see small arrow) next to the login boxes in the upper-right corner. The choices are 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month and Forever. If you do nothing, the session length setting defaults to "Forever", and the separate login page will show "Minutes to stay logged in" as a value of 3153600. (To see all of that value, you must scroll within the little value box.)
Therefore, we see that our forum software thinks that Forever means 3153600 Minutes = 52560 Hours = 2190 Days = 6 Years. In internet time it's probably true that 6 years is pretty close to forever in terms of trying to stay logged in.
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Next time you experience some kind of login problem, please try clearing out any Nikongear cookies as well as clearing your browser cache.
When i do that, indeed the first box states "Forever", but when it errors (doesn't always do that), it indeed goes to the next login page, but the minutes to stay logged in then defaults to 60, not the internet forever.
While i've cleared out my cache multiple times already, i will do it again to see whether we can get this solved somehow.
Thanks again for sticking with it.
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Hans, it is possible that after the error happens, the 60 that shows up in the Login Minutes box represents the default value of the Nikongear Login Cookie. This is why I suggested clearing Cookies in addition to clearing Cache after the error.
This does have me a bit puzzled because, as mentioned above somewhere,
I'm using pretty much the same setup as you. :)
Now I am wondering if you run any kind of Firewall app or Virus Prevention app on your Mac?
Intermittent errors are just the worst thing to try to solve, aren't they?? ???
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May I chime in with another log-in problem?
For unknown reasons I am repeatedly logged off when accessing NG-R via iOS device. Even though I chose log-in time "forever", I have to log in again whenever the page reloads (e.g.after switching browser tabs making iOS Safari reload tabs, probably due to RAM restraints).
I tried it several times using the "central" log-in as well as the one in the top right corner. IOS settings actually enable password safing and it works perfectly normal on other sites. Newest iOS version installed.
No problems so far in desktop browser. I use the forum on OS X and iOS devices. Problem occurs on both my iPhone 5 and iPad 2.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Günther
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That's interesting!
I wonder if you are getting an Unused Session Timeout in conflict with the Login Cookie Timeout?
ADDED LATER: No, this cannot happen.
I will see if I can replicate this on my iPad under Safari.
And I will check the settings for Timeouts.
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Günther --
On my (very old) iPad, I started Safari and logged in to Nikongear. I then set up some tabs for other sites.
I jumped back and forth between NG and the tabbed sites but did not get logged off NG.
I left Safari by a big button click to the home screen and then brought up Safari again.
My NG login was still active.
For the record, my iPad is the old, orginal version with 64GB.
It is no longer update-able so I am not using the same IOS that is used on your iPad2.
Two things I can suggest:
1) Go to Settings > Safari on your iPad2 and clear Cookies and Cache.
2) If that does not fix the problem, then try the two-button (hard) reset to release all loaded apps
and thus clean up the iPad2's memory.
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[size=78%]Hello Andrea,[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Thanks for your long reply and sorry for my late answer. [/size]
[/size]
[/size]
Two things I can suggest:
1) Go to Settings > Safari on your iPad2 and clear Cookies and Cache.
2) If that does not fix the problem, then try the two-button (hard) reset to release all loaded apps
and thus clean up the iPad2's memory.
I followed your suggestions - unfortunately to no avail, but at least I was able to narrow the problem somewhat.
There is no log-in problem for as long as I just follow links in the very same browser tab.
Usually I open interesting threads in new tabs, though. And each one of those newly opened threads requires a new login.
Can be my "odd" browsing behaviour, but so far I encountered this problem only here.
Looking forward to a solution.
If you need further information from me, don't hesitate to ask.
Cheers,
Günther
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Günther, smells like you're using very strict privacy settings like Private Browsing, "do not track", no cookies allowed, flush the cash when tab or session is closed, etc, etc.
For NG to work properly the nikongear.net cookie needs to be installed but also accessible by the browser, when for instance using Safari in Private Browsing mode new cookies are not installed but already installed cookies are also ignored. The newer web browsers are now designed to have each tab to be a separate browser session, with a super secret privacy setup this might cause login failures.
As we're constantly updating the site a periodic cleaning and re-installing of the cookie is advised to guarantee a smooth experience, but this goes for all websites.
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Günther, smells like you're using very strict privacy settings like Private Browsing, "do not track", no cookies allowed, flush the cash when tab or session is closed, etc, etc.
For NG to work properly the nikongear.net cookie needs to be installed but also accessible by the browser, when for instance using Safari in Private Browsing mode new cookies are not installed but already installed cookies are also ignored. The newer web browsers are now designed to have each tab to be a separate browser session, with a super secret privacy setup this might cause login failures.
As we're constantly updating the site a periodic cleaning and re-installing of the cookie is advised to guarantee a smooth experience, but this goes for all websites.
Not precisely, Sir!
Do not track = active, no other cookies restriction active. Pop up blocking = active.
It would be new to me if these two restrictions would affect log-in cookies.
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Günther - thanks for narrowing down the problem. Let me try again under a setting which opens links in new tabs.
Jan Anne - I think you've hit on something with the "separate tabs need a new session" observation.
I'll get some time to test later this evening and report if I can reproduce the problem.
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OK, I found the problem. It is because Günther has Safari Private Browsing turned on.
Here is my experiment.
On my Macbook I started Safari with the following Preferences, but did not turn on Private Browsing.
General
- Open pages in tabs instead of Windows: Always.
- Checked: Cmd-click opens a link in a new tab.
- Checked: When a new tab opens, make it active.
Security
- Checked: Block pop-up windows.
Privacy
- Checked: Website tracking. Ask websites not to track me.
I then logged into Nikongear and opened every NG link with a Cmd-tab so that it appeared in a New Tab. Each Tab that became active showed me still logged into Nikongear.
In short everything worked as it should.
NOW, I added the additional setting of Private Browsing to Safari via the Safari Main Menu. (Private Browsing is not in Safari Preferences.)
And now every time I opened a link with Cmd-tab, the active window in the New Tab had lost my login.
However, this is exactly what Private Browsing is supposed to do!!
Safari tells you this directly.
Do you want to turn on Private Browsing?
Safari can keep your browsing history private. When you turn on private browsing, Safari doesn’t remember the pages you visit, your search history, or your AutoFill information.
So problem solved.
Günther, if you want to use Safari Private Browsing, then you must not use Cmd-click to open new NG links.
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ADDED LATER: Firefox under Private Browsing seems to remember logins. I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing.
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Thanks for your efforts, Jan-Anne and Andrea!
Both of you were right. Some googling finally showed that private browsing in iOS is not activated in the settings menu but in the browser - similar to your OS X test. So my fault - I had not realised that I was using private browsing all the time.
Cheers,
Günther
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Yes, Safari behaves the same on my iPad.
It was good that we all figured this out because maybe we can help someone else in the future
now that we know how it all works. ;D
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In the mean time i've found that my "problem" may actually be related to SMF, or the combination of SMF with firefox (perhaps only on Mac). I have the problem on Luminuous Landscape as well and they also use SMF.
Maybe there is something in their support forum?!
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Andrea, i did some web search. Not that i don't trust you, i'm pretty sure you've got it all nailed down. But, perhaps there is more you need to attend to, so please take this as a gesture.
Perhaps one of these links holds the key to solving my originally reported issue, i think the first one looks quite credible:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=447598.0
http://forum.coppermine-gallery.net/index.php?topic=43880.0
Hope this helps some, otherwise please forget this :)
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Hans, thank you for the links. Really & truly I do not have everything nailed down!! ;D The SMF forum software is new to all of us.
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I checked our session hash_bits_per_character and it is NOT 6, which is the value that caused trouble as mentioned in the link. That link was from 2011, so 4 years later we are well advanced beyond the SMF version mentioned in the link.
******
I have enabled the use of sub-domain independent cookies.
And I have also raised the session timeout length.
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HCS: Please check your browser and let me know if you have Private Browsing enabled?
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I checked our session hash_bits_per_character and it is NOT 6, which is the value that caused trouble as mentioned in the link. That link was from 2011, so 4 years later we are well advanced beyond the SMF version mentioned in the link.
Well ... never mind then. I was just googling. I really have no idea about forum setup.
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I have enabled the use of sub-domain independent cookies.
And I have also raised the session timeout length.
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HCS: Please check your browser and let me know if you have Private Browsing enabled?
I'll give it a whirl. I am not using Private Browsing, i'm certain about that.
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Hans, I was asking about Private Browsing just to see if that might be a factor in your particular logoff problem. Just for the record I use PRivate Browsing with Firefox and have not experienced any logoff problems. But it did play a role in Günther's logoff problem on Safari browser.
I think it is cool that you googled around and have tried to help. Sooner or later we will figure this out !!
Hans, please do let me know whether you are still experiencing unwanted logoff after my reset of sub-domain cookies and session timeout length (not the same as login timeout which is managed by cookie).
If so, then please give me a rundown of the following items as I have access to more than one platform (or can arrange it).
PC/Laptop Type & OS
Browser & Version
Browser Settings for Tabs
Browser Settings for Content, Privacy, Security
Use of any anti-viral software or firewalls (Y/N)
Example from my setup:
Macbook Pro OS 10.8.5 (I'm soooo behind....)
Firefox 40.0.3 with Adblock Plus
Tabs: Open tab in new window. Switch to it immediately.
Content/Privacy: Block popup windows except for Nikongear.net. Tell sites no tracking. Always use Private Browsing. Accept cookies.
Anti-viral: Yes, occasionally
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I'm writing this on my MacPro 5.1 (mid 2010), OSX 10.10.5
Firefox 40.0.3
Tabs: "Open new windows in a new tab instead" and "When I open a link in a new tab, switch to it immediately"
Content: "Block pop-up windows", no exceptions
Privacy: i don't have "Tell sites that I do not want to be tracked" set and "Firefox will: Remember history"
Security: not sure which setting is interesting to know
Anit-viral: no clue what you really mean as a setting in Firefox, but (very) occasionally i do run ClamXav
And yes, i still do get to go to the second screen more often than not because of password not correct.
I'll keep an eye out the coming days, but i've cleared the cookies and cache just yet and it happened again.
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Hans, thanks for the info. I try to troubleshoot on as similar a platform as I can manage.
And if I report this problem on the SMF Forum, the machine/OS/browser stuff is necessary.
You did not say whether you have Accept Cookies checked in the Firefox preferences?
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Andrea, i don't know where that setting is, but in Privacy - Firefox will: i have Remember settings. The explanation that goes with that is "Firefox will remember your browsing, download, form and search history, and keep cookies from websites you visit."
Is there another place?
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In my Firefox display the Cookie setting shows up in the History section.
Here is a screen shot of what I see.
(With INCORRECT settings!!! I have been playing around with them.)
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Andrea, i think that my setting automatically allows storing of cookies. I haven't customised those settings.
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Yes, that is correct. I reset to Remember History and no longer see Cookie setting which is now automatic.
Anyway, so far no luck in reproducing your problem with getting "bumped off" NG. I'm sorry about that! I have a few other things to try, however, so will keep working on it.
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Hans, what is the exact error message you get when the logout happens? Thanks.
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(...) it did play a role in Günther's logoff problem on Safari browser.
Pooh, I feel humbled!
Still under 20 messages, but already namesake for that infamous log-off problem! ;)
(Just kidding! You are doing a great job and I feel sorry for keeping you busy for several days)[/quote]
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oh la! ;D ;D ;D
Güther, please don't feel sorry!
I was very eager to try to figure out the problem and learn something from it. It was good to learn that Safari and Firefox seem to have slightly different ways of handling Private Browsing and to learn how that setting interacts with their other settings.
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Earlier, the SMF software did have a bug involving the password hash. This bug would bump someone out of their login with an erroneous "Password Incorrect" message. But that was fixed long ago. So it is not clear what might be causing any similar problems currently.
I have absolutely no way to determine whether a Member is entering their password correctly or incorrectly. Our Error Logs only report Password Incorrect but do not report what was typed - for obvious security reasons benefiting members. So all we can do is to check a member's browser settings and try to reproduce the problem on our own machines under similar settings.
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Hans, I'm thinking that it might be useful to reset your current password and temporarily choose a very, very easy-to-enter password with only letters and numbers and NO special characters. Then after logging on with it, if you get bumped off right away, you would be even more certain that it was not fumblefingers which caused the Password Incorrect message. [I myself have fumbled even simple abc123 passwored more than once!! We all do fumblefingers on occasion.]
Please understand this is just a testing suggestion and does not imply that you are constandly fumbling your current password, OK??? ;D
After a short test with the simple password, change it back to your more secure password.
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Hans, I'm thinking that it might be useful to reset your current password and temporarily choose a very, very easy-to-enter password with only letters and numbers and NO special characters. Then after logging on with it, if you get bumped off right away, you would be even more certain that it was not fumblefingers which caused the Password Incorrect message. [I myself have fumbled even simple abc123 passwored more than once!! We all do fumblefingers on occasion.]
Please understand this is just a testing suggestion and does not imply that you are constandly fumbling your current password, OK??? ;D
After a short test with the simple password, change it back to your more secure password.
No problem Andrea, i'll try it and report back.
BTW, my first password was one of those simple ones and i changed it to another one on advice of Bjørn. The behaviour of the website hasn't changed.
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Andrea,
Tried it, changed to a really simple password. First logon went ok.
Then logged out and went to do something else. Just logged in again, error again.
So, i don't think it's my thick fingers :D :D :D
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Hans, I didn't really think it was thick fingers either. :D
I was mostly interested to see if some "special characters" might be causing a problem so I suggested that (temporary) very simple password.
This really does look like a recurrence of the old Incorrect Password bug.
I will let the SMF folks know and see if they have any suggestions.