NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Sören Hese on June 14, 2018, 11:50:10
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Dear all, just need some hints from anybody who has the same problem: my D850 randomly (so far) freezes fully for 1-2 seconds. In these two seconds no exposure and no AF possible. This happens approx every 100-150 shots. Buffer is empty or filled with approx 10-15 shots (12Bit lossless raw settings). I am using En_EL15a batteries and Sony G Type 32GB XQD cards and Sony SDXC 64GB UHS-II cards with max rating. Using different cards has no effect also switching batteries has no effect. This happened with AFS VR 400mm f2.8 and with the AFS 70-200 f2.8 (both set VR=OFF). AF-C release Prio and AF set to 3D and using the following settings (below). Nikon already changed the "togo pcb unit", but the problem remains. With sports this is not a good situation since 1-2 s are a lot.
Any comments are highly appreciated! Kind regards from Berlin.
Settings:
A1=Release
A2=Release
A3=1
A4=On
A5=Wide
A6=AF15
A7=Off
A8=ON
A9=Single Point AF72/153/autoarea=off
A10=No restrictions
A11=off
A12=ON/ON/ON
B1=1/3
B2=1/3
B3=1/3
B4=Off
B5=On Face detection on
B6=8mm
B7=off
C1=Off
C2=6s
C3=10s
C4=10S/1M/10S/4S/10M
D1=5
D2=200
D3=OFF
D4=SYNC
D5=OFF
D6=OFF
D7=ON
D8=R
D9=OFF
D10=OFF
D11=ON
E1=1/250
E2=1/60
E3=ENTIRE FRAME
E4=SUBJECT AND BACKGROUND
E5=ON
E6=FLASH/SPEED
E7=MTR>UNDER>OVER
F1 Pv=PV
FN1=Off
FN2=Access Top Item In My Menu
F5=Off
F6=Off
F8=ON
F9=Light
G2=248
ExtMenuBanks=OFF
Primary=XQD
Sec=Overflow
RAW, L, 12Bit lossless
Autoiso=OFF
WB=directsun
colorspace=AdobeRGB
Other Photoshooting Menu setting all=OFF
Slot empty release=LOCK
Use MBD18 first
Firmware=1.01 (now 1.02)
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Sounds like the same issue,,,
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,7251.0.html
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As Erik mentions, I have the same problem. I have been in contact with the Nikon representative in Greece and, so far, the problem has not been resolved.
They gave me 2 QC (quality check) D850 bodies to try and they had the same problem. It seems like a bug. I am still waiting for a solution to the problem.
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ok thanks, wondering if this is a problem of specific settings that causes these freezes or whether it only applies to specific bodies. I will test the system default settings. Do you also experience a full "hang" of the trigger? Regards, Sören
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I also remember the other thread well. In the beginning I thought "airplane mode" would help but for our Greek friend it did not
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Pull the SDXC card out and leave the slot empty.
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Pull the SDXC card out and leave the slot empty.
could be. I never use the SD. I wish Nikon would offer to rebuild for two XQD cards
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The first time I used the D850 there were moments where it would seem to pause and not acquire focus in the midst of shooting a figure skating event. However, this behavior has not repeated since in my camera body.
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ok thanks, wondering if this is a problem of specific settings that causes these freezes or whether it only applies to specific bodies. I will test the system default settings. Do you also experience a full "hang" of the trigger? Regards, Sören
Ιt might be the settings. I noticed that pressing the button on the AF/MF switch, the camera recovers instantly. Same thing if you turn the switch to MF and then back to AF. The first option is faster. I do not understand what you mean by "full hang of the trigger".
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The first time I used the D850 there were moments where it would seem to pause and not acquire focus in the midst of shooting a figure skating event. However, this behavior has not repeated since in my camera body.
This issue accured to me several times and i looked it up and an article bye rggedu wrote about it: when you press the knob to release your lens this happens, so try to hold your left hand not to close to your camera as you might accidently press that button.
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Thxs all! yes I tested it without SDXC in slot - same problem and the lens release issue is important for smaller lensens imo. I am hand holding a 400mmf2.8 at the tripod foot (or a 70-200AFS) on a boat when this occurs. No way to have contact with the lens release. The lens release issue also only blocks AF but starting an exposure is still possible. My problem is a full freeze of the body. The camera doesnt react at all: no exposure triggering & no AF. All I can do is wait for the camera to wake up again (1-3 seconds).
This week I received a D850 NPS loaner and did an event shooting with the 24-70 - same problem. By now I believe its my specific camera setup that does it. Will do more testing with the loaner at the next weekend again with XQD only and with SDXC-II only but right now I believe its a system setup bug. Resetting to system defaults and than slowly dialing in the own settings again one on one might be the right strategy.
Thxs again and I will update at the weekend how it went. Regards! Sören
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The firmware for many Nikon cameras was updated earlier this month, and the latest firmware for D850 is ver. 1.02. Nikon doesn't mention anything about the glitch discussed here, but chances could be that the problem is addressed "secretly"...
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For sure we don't know the extent of this issue at all, Nikon more or less always does solve these things silently,,,
My best guess after this issue popping up again is that it could be the D850 when certain specific lens samples are used where the software somehow is running into trouble, since it is the user seeing problems with apparently all D850 but with the same lenses. Yes could be mixed with an unfortunate set of user settings,,,
Hope they find a solution quickly.
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Sounds like an untrapped error which is timing out.
If the recovery time is identical each time I would bet on that being the cause.
In motoring terms it's a bit like turning up a dead end road with no turning area!
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Sounds like an untrapped error which is timing out.
If the recovery time is identical each time I would bet on that being the cause.
I agree with that assessment. I'm one of the lucky few with the same issue. I returned my first D850 due to this issue and its replacement has the same problem. Sören Hese and I have been sharing camera settings, but we have few in common and use very different AF settings. The freeze can occur with any of the lenses I mount (AF-S f1.8 primes and AF-S f2.8 zooms.) When it occurs I've seem both focus confirmation arrows flashing (but not the dot). Even if I remove my finger from the shutter release the shutter will release after the freeze concludes. When it releases it sounds as though the shutter has been set to Quiet Mode. The firmware update to 1.02 made no difference.
Occurrence is random, but it happens to me at least once per 100 images taken. Now that I am no longer doing paid work I can afford the occasional missed shot, so I am not hesitant to shoot with the D850. But I would not use it for weddings. The over whelming majority of D850 users do not have this problem, but those who do seem to experience it with every D850 they try. This suggests to me a common factor among those users, but what?
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... This suggests to me a common factor among those users, but what?
What I read is that they mount their own lenses on all of the cameras,,, and it sounds like it is related to focus, could be the lens is not responding to commands as expected by the camera.
I don't remember if this is MF as well,,, but:
The higher resolution could be a reason for Nikon to opt for more precise focus is achieved by the lens before exposure is allowed,,, and if the AF sensors don't see that sharpness level,,,
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Is it possible that Nikon has knowingly or unknowingly created artificial intelligence and it is running amok within your 850? ;)
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Just a thought (which was triggered by Erik's comment concerning AF):
How are your Continuous AF settings configured?
Try changing AF-C to: "Release".
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Try changing AF-C to: "Release".
"Release" is my normal setting. This adds to the mystery since the camera should always fire the shutter when I press the shutter release regardless of focus, but it does not during the freeze.
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*I'm experiencing difficulty posting my full reply.
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Hi,
Just logged in to say that I am also having this issue of random AF freeze, but I think I know what it might be and will be returning the camera for repair and hopefully the following will be of help other who are having similar issue.
It has happened randomly since purchased December of last year, however last week was out at Kite festival on local beach, 70-200mm attached, all was fine then AF stopped working, I noticed in the viewfinder the aperture was showing f/2.8, I was actually shooting at f/16 1/10sec, so took a few more shots which came out dark, then it just came back to life, AF as normal and back to f/16.
When back home I checked the EXIF, at the point the AF freeze occurred it showed as though I had my 20mm AIS f/2.8 attached(it was at home), the photos that were showing as being taken at f/2.8 are darker/underexposed, if it was actually f/2.8 they would have been several stops overexposed.
It would seem to me that it is losing contact with the attached lens and defaulting to the setting for my 20mm.
Fortunately I have photographic evidence with EXIF info which might help with diagnosis/repair.
It has also done this with my 300mm f/2.8 VRII
If you search "D850 autofocus freeze" you will also find this problem on another forum.
The camera will be going back this week, I will report back with results.
MT.
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Just a quick update.
Nikon has accepted it for repair, and now in a queue.
So, while I wait, I'll upload the photo's that show there is some sort of "disconnect" issue. visible in the exif, as said earlier, my 20mm was at home, and the angle of view is definitely not that of 20mm.
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I have managed to get a statement of works from them, hopefully have the camera back soon.
Will report back when I am able to give it a thorough testing.
Nikon's Statement Of Works:
Check/adjust body focus to Nikon standard
Repair/Adjust auto focus mechanism/circuit. Check and adjust AF accuracy.
Metering, shutter and exposure accuracy checked - recalibrated if necessary.
Image capture, playback and delete functions checked.
X-sync, hot shoe and speedlight function checked.
Body depth, body focus, AF accuracy checked and recalibrated if necessary.
Image Sensor, optics, mirrors, and viewfinder cleaned.
Firmware version checked and updated if required.
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Thanks for the update. My D850 still experiences random short freezes every 100 shots or so. But I believe my problem is different from what you are experiencing. Since I am no longer doing paid work I can live with it for the time being.
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I've had this problem. In my case, my D850 locked up for several minutes after a shot. This seems to happen when shooting in Live View. The only solution I've found is removing the battery and replacing it. In my case, the issue might be that I had one of my third party batteries in the camera. I'll post again here if that is the issue.
Another possiblity for symptoms Ive read in this thread could be Long Exposure Noise Reduction which could add time to writing the image to the card.
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Another update from Nikon.
"Unfortunately due to an unprecedented change in the status of your repair, the technician has identified that the camera requires a new Af-M Lever Unit which is going to delay your repair. "
It would be nice if they could tell me what it is that is causing this problem.
Is there no common denominator with this issue that we all have?.
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The description of the new D850 firmware update (1.03) suggests it is intended to correct the issue I've experienced on two D850s. I've installed the update and will see if it is, indeed, a fix.
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Will install tonight and give a powerfull check the next 7 days - if it turns out to be the problem solver - that is so great news - I will put my cash aside for another one. The freeze issue was making me add a D810 to my arsenal. ...
Will also comment on how it turns out. Regards from Germany! Sören
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Thanks for the reply, didn't see the new update, seems a few more people on Nikon Rumors also been having this issue.
If that is the "fix", not sure why they are replacing my AF-M lever?.
We have a shoot today, would have been nice to have the D850 back, fortunately the D800's still going strong 4+ years.
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They will replace the AF-M leaver since it is defective,,,
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But it worked ok, never had any problems with it, that's what I don't understand.
I thought they were implying that the AF-M lever was the cause.
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Many parts can have a contributing factor to an issue arising, especially when it happens unpredictably,,,
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May be the release of the C 1.03 firmware provides a solution :
https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/fw/311.html
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I have just posted on another thread (D850 AF issue) the solution that Nikon applied to my camera. This is good news to all users encountering this problem.
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Camera just returned from Nikon, will venture to the local MX track this weekend and give it a good workout and return with results.
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Will install tonight and give a powerfull check the next 7 days - if it turns out to be the problem solver - that is so great news - I will put my cash aside for another one. The freeze issue was making me add a D810 to my arsenal. ...
Will also comment on how it turns out. Regards from Germany! Sören
Sören
How is the new firmware working for you? I have not experienced the freeze since I installed it, but have not yet taken a lot of images.
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This firmware update fixes the freeze issue for me with the D850 - did 3000 shots for a freestyle surfing event in Denmark and another sailing regatta racing event with another 1500 shots with exactly the same setup and 850-settings - not a single freeze or hickup. They fixed it! Very cool!!!
So happy that this problem is history now. Unfortunately NPS always told me that they have no information about this problem and now Nikon Japan issues a firmware fix for an "unknown" problem. The national NPS offices do not seem to get much info about what Nikon is working on. This was very very badly managed - we all could have saved us a lot of work and testing if only Nikon would have informed every one ala "we are working on it!".
I updated some comments about this here:
http://soerenhese.de/?p=8409
and here:
http://soerenhese.de/?p=7167
Regards to all from Berlin and thxs for the help and comments!
Sören
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Thanks for the update Sören.
My update.
Went out Saturday for a couple of hours to local MX park, no problems.
Monday, decided to go and see if we can get a shot the of the Short Eared Owl that has been reported, set up my camera with 300mm f/2.8(VRII) +TC 1.4, switch on, no focus, frozen!!, big sigh, remove TC, all works well, maybe it's my TC so swap for wife's TC, nope still no joy, put my TC back on push buttons and eventually it comes back to life, performs fine for rest of the day.
I will be off on holidays soon, so it will be given thorough testing, if it happens again I will return it as "unfit for purpose", hopefully it was just a one off.
With regards your comment about Nikon support Sören, you are right, I had to do all the chasing when they had my Camera, also I made available to them the photo evidence that I put here in this thread, my web logs show they never looked/checked it out, the online form that you print out for repair has a Maximum 255 characters!! and no possibility to upload photographic evidence of your problem, I am not impressed with Nikon support, hope I never have to use it again, 6 weeks without my D850.
Regards,
Alan.
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Monday, decided to go and see if we can get a shot the of the Short Eared Owl that has been reported, set up my camera with 300mm f/2.8(VRII) +TC 1.4, switch on, no focus, frozen!!, big sigh, remove TC, all works well, maybe it's my TC so swap for wife's TC, nope still no joy, put my TC back on push buttons and eventually it comes back to life, performs fine for rest of the day.
I will be off on holidays soon, so it will be given thorough testing, if it happens again I will return it as "unfit for purpose", hopefully it was just a one off.
This kind of issue is occasionally reported when TCs are involved (and sometimes when no TC is used). When a TC is mounted between the body and lens - four sets of electrical contacts are involved. And most likely there is some slight rotational play between the lens and TC and also between the TC and camera. So weird stuff can happen independent of the body TC, or lens involved. I suspect your D850 is OK.
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This kind of issue is occasionally reported when TCs are involved (and sometimes when no TC is used). When a TC is mounted between the body and lens - four sets of electrical contacts are involved. And most likely there is some slight rotational play between the lens and TC and also between the TC and camera. So weird stuff can happen independent of the body TC, or lens involved. I suspect your D850 is OK.
IMHO there should be no issues re using TC's the contacts are extremely high quality and the rotational tolerances are so small that it has no influence at all.
When mounting a big tele lens you feel this tolerance more since the diameter is much larger.
I have never experienced this with Nikon brand of TC's and Nikkor lenses, sure third party lenses have most of them very poor quality contact pins, the Nikon ones are a Silver alloy, that's also why they cost a lot as spares.
Look for issues in other places like cleanliness,,,
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Look for issues in other places like cleanliness,,,
I agree. This issue of failure to focus when using a TC comes up periodically. I it should not happen, but apparently it does for whatever reason. Since this was a thread concerning camera issues I was trying to suggest that it was most likely not a defective camera body. Cleaning all contacts is always good advice in these situations. The fact that the failure to focus occurred with two TCs suggests cleaning lens or body contacts would be a good place to start.
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Contacts were all cleaned before I returned it to Nikon, unfortunately made no difference, and it reoccurred after the Nikon service/fix :(
Both wife and I have D800 over 4 years now, wind, rain, sun and snow, not one problem with and without TC, I'm hoping that the D850 will now give that kind of service.