NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Michafoto on March 05, 2017, 20:00:38
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Hi, I am a professional photographer and have two D810 bodies. I have fine tuned them both for the 105mm 1.4 lens, so they are brilliantly sharp in the centre , but on both cameras, on one on the left side and on the other camera on the right side there is either a back or front focus issue and it is not sharp. I am a NPS member and had the lens checked by Nikon UK and was told that everything with the it is okay, but there might be some slight issues with the bodies and they might have to be specifically 'married' to this lens. In the moment I am using a loan 105mm 1.4 from Nikon and it has exactly the same issues, the focus around some of the border areas is off too. I do understand that it is a very shallow depth of field and I am using this lens just on f1.4, so the suggestion from Nikon might be right, that the cameras have to be adjusted to use this lens properly to achieve an accurate focus on all points of the field. Is anyone else experiencing this problem? Please let me know, I would appreciate any suggestion. Thanks
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Let NPS look at your two d810.
I have head of one issue with tilted plane of focus of a 105mm 1.4 AFS on DPR, but it should not go from one side to the other,,,
Fine tuning AF is difficult,,, just saying, the central focus sensor is wider than the brackets indicate in the viewfinder,,,
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In lens testing., most people "forget" about the camera. You probably have a slightly warped lens mount, perhaps not out by more than 2 or 3 times of the (very) small allowable margin. This small error would go unnoticed with most lenses. Yet this deviation is sufficient to create issues with such a fast, super sharp lens such as the 105/.4.
Just had my Df checked, as part of the annual maintenance of my cameras. The mount was +0.03 to -0.10 mm off true thus the overall variation was more than 3 X the tolerance, requiring an immediate replacement. I had trouble with a Noct-Nikkor by the way. Camera is just fine now.
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Thank you so much for your answers, that's really very very helpful! So basically I have to ask Nikon to have a look at the mounts and adjust them accordingly... that's probably why the technician also wanted to see the body with which I am using the lens. My problem is just, that I am using it sometimes with one, sometimes with the other body. They have offered me to 'marry' the lens to the bodies without charging me the usual fee, would that make sense? For now I'm glad to assume that it is not a faulty lens...
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Remember the tolerance for the camera mount is just +- 0.02 mm. The bayonet itself is pretty tough, but if one is in the habit of putting heavy lenses on the camera, then carry the rig in the field using only the camera's strap, eventually trouble is bound to arise. Still, people blame the lens(es) ...
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Thank you very much Bjørn for the heads up, I do carry my cameras on straps around the shoulders, but my largest and heaviest lens is the 70-200mm and the cameras are both just around 9 month old... nevertheless it's really good to know and because I have a longstanding and good relation with Nikon they've promised me to solve the issue one way or the other...
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... just out of curiosity, does anyone else experience the same issues with this lens, meaning that it is not entirely sharp in some areas on the edges of the focusing field? Thanks
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Hi, Micha, welcome to NG!
I have no experience with 105/1.4E, but I've had the "smeared on the right side" problem with my D7000 and two samples of AF-S Micro 40/2.8 that were bought separately with around one year apart. I had other Nikkor lenses for the same D7000, and they showed no such problems at all.
In both cases, I brought an SD card with the images shot with the lens/camera combo that showed the issue along with the 40/2.8 lenses to Nikon service here in Tokyo. They said the lens were assembled within their tolerance. I didn't know what to do, sold both lenses in despair and never looked back...
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My 105/1.4E is deadly sharp across the entire frame, even set wide open, on all my Nikons ( + Fuji S3/S5) I tried it with so far. Not much of a statistic as the sample size = 1; however, this tells me the expected behaviour gleaned from the MTF charts is manifested.
As I stated earlier, all my cameras go for a routine check-up once every year. I surmise this maintenance helps reduce many other minor issues.
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There are so many aspect to consider of possible 'reasons' for observing faults with lenses. one more not mentioned is: The lens has focus shift, as you stop it down especially up close zone of focus moves back,,,
My samples with Bjørns lens was also flawless wide open.
I would like to see some sample images that show the initial request for help. Showing this clearly:
,,,,,but on both cameras, on one on the left side and on the other camera on the right side there is either a back or front focus issue and it is not sharp,,,,,,,
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Thank you very much Erik! Please find some samples attached, I've took a whole series on different locations and the result was always the same. Sorry for the sad expression of any wife, she had pneumonia and wasn't at all in the mood for some lens testing on that day ;)
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... btw they are crops from wider 3/4 shots...
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... and this is a crop from a very wide shot, the focus was AF-S spot on the face like on the other samples... again I did a while set and all the images were the same. The focus is somewhere on the tarmac..
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Focus in the middle.
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How did you focus, it looks like you used AF-S and reframed before you took the shot since you must be outside where there are AF sensors,,, ?
Does not look like a reliable/reproducible test to me. That would imply a tripod and reliable target etc.
If you want reliable focus at f/1.4 use AF-C
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.. and use the AF-ON function.
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.. and use the AF-ON function.
How does it differ from the half-pressing of the release button?
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Thank you very much for the replies, yes I've used AF-S, but my wife didn't move at all and the speed was 1/1250s so a tripod would have been obsolete, I am photographing professionally for 13 years and the lens should have nailed it handheld. The focus was always straight on the face. And I took hundreds of images with that combination and the result was always the same, the right side was always out of focus. I really appreciate your input and suggestions, I will give Nikon the body with the lens and see what they come up with. And Bjørn I will try out the AF-ON function, thank you so much again!!
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... and I did always half-press of the release button in between the shots as Akira suggests.
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How does it differ from the half-pressing of the release button?
Providing complete freedom as the lens only will focus on your command and has no volition of its own (or induced by the shutter release the next time you touch that button). Use in conjunction with AF-C for the smoothest and most fluid operation.
It's an enigma to me why the AF-ON mode isn't a default on the 'pro' class cameras. I have used this mode all the time the functionality has been present on my Nikons.
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Thank you very much for the replies, yes I've used AF-S, but my wife didn't move at all and the speed was 1/1250s so a tripod would have been obsolete, I am photographing professionally for 13 years and the lens should have nailed it handheld. The focus was always straight on the face. And I took hundreds of images with that combination and the result was always the same, the right side was always out of focus. I really appreciate your input and suggestions, I will give Nikon the body with the lens and see what they come up with. And Bjørn I will try out the AF-ON function, thank you so much again!!
Well, IMHO you are wrong.
The lens has almost flat field focus, so when you rotate your body to recompose the camera the focus will be off.
If you don't rotate but take a step to the side, well focus will also be off.
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... and I did always half-press of the release button in between the shots as Akira suggests.
Yes this is the problem.
He doesn't suggest to work with half pressing! He ask what is the difference to using the AF-On button on the rear of the camera,,,
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In lens testing., most people "forget" about the camera. You probably have a slightly warped lens mount, perhaps not out by more than 2 or 3 times of the (very) small allowable margin. This small error would go unnoticed with most lenses. Yet this deviation is sufficient to create issues with such a fast, super sharp lens such as the 105/1.4
NPS replaced several mounts on my cameras and lenses. Because I do not use Zoom lenses (I am too stupid for these complex machines) the lens mounts see a lot of wear.
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How does it differ from the half-pressing of the release button?
We had a very long talk about this recently here:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,4261.msg66034.html#msg66034
AF-S is fully Ok to use as well, of course, when you know the lens and the optical properties of it fully,,, The thread that I link to gives a good perspective on what this is about.
I have recently heard that Nikon might have incorporated some 'automatic' compensations in the AF-system to account for focus shift,,,
Also works on the AF-buttons on the long tele-lenses and the two 70-200 AFS, VRI and VR III
BTW the reason for me not to use the AF-On in the 'old days' was that VR would not activate until you pushed the shutter on the front, then the VR would not have time to kick in and settle before the shutter would fire, all new bodies after the D800 now work correctly, activating VR on the AF-On button,,,
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Thank you very much Erik, I do appreciate your suggestions very much! I always thought that half pressing the button again will re-focus. I've got a very busy week ahead, a 4 day commission about how the Brexit affects EU nationals from the financial sector in the UK, so many portraits where I can try out the lens again ;)
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... just out of curiosity, does anyone else experience the same issues with this lens, meaning that it is not entirely sharp in some areas on the edges of the focusing field? Thanks
My 105E works flawlessly well on all three bodies: D3, D600, D500.
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Thank you very much Erik, I do appreciate your suggestions very much! I always thought that half pressing the button again will re-focus. I've got a very busy week ahead, a 4 day commission about how the Brexit affects EU nationals from the financial sector in the UK, so many portraits where I can try out the lens again ;)
You are more than welcome.
Use AF-C and keep within the sensor area, luckily the D810 has plenty of Pixels to crop from without loosing much!
Use AF-On only if you feel you have good coordination between thumb and shutter finger,,,
I'm sure you'll be more than happy with the lens as is - It's a mighty fine one.
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I applaud that sentiment.
What people now experience is how current lens technology really pushes the envelope and the fail-safe margins almost vanish. For those of us shooting with say the Noct-Nikkor all this is old news.
One really needs to learn one's lenses to the max.
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We had a very long talk about this recently here:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,4261.msg66034.html#msg66034
AF-S is fully Ok to use as well, of course, when you know the lens and the optical properties of it fully,,, The thread that I link to gives a good perspective on what this is about.
I have recently heard that Nikon might have incorporated some 'automatic' compensations in the AF-system to account for focus shift,,,
Also works on the AF-buttons on the long tele-lenses and the two 70-200 AFS, VRI and VR III
BTW the reason for me not to use the AF-On in the 'old days' was that VR would not activate until you pushed the shutter on the front, then the VR would not have time to kick in and settle before the shutter would fire, all new bodies after the D800 now work correctly, activating VR on the AF-On button,,,
WRT your comment about "the old days", does that include the D200 and or the 18-200 and 12-24 zooms? Using the AF-ON button with that gear could interfere with the VR function by not allowing time for VR to lock on?
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You could still press and hold AF-ON, then press and hold shutter button half way and let the VR settle, finally press it all the way to get the shots. I never felt this was an issue, it allowed the user to lower the battery consumption during focus tracking by electing not to use VR until it was time. But then I guess they realized VR helps with focus tracking by helping the user keep the focus point steady, so it was then changed so that VR is activated at the same time the autofocus is initiated.
I prefer to use AF-ON to initiate AF because it allows modeless use of the camera; no switches to press to access manual focus, or AF on a static or moving subject. Always the same settings. The main drawback is that if a thumb button is used as AF-ON, the active focus point can't be moved by hand during tracking. However, I prefer focus to be independent of shutter button so I don't have to juggle between AF-C, AF-S, and MF. Also on tripod when photographung a static scene I cannot tolerate AF kicking in by accident after I have set up everything and want to take the shots.
Today one can program AF-ON on the lens buttons and front side Fn buttons so the thumb can be set free to move focus point around. However this is a bit too complicated to master for me, having used the cameras in a certain way for more than a decade... :o I guess the lens buttons on the new 70-200 will motivate me to experiment.
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That reminds me of the Thom Hogan phrase that he uses with new models "Who moved the cheese?". There is enough to keep my mind on already without things being relocated or added in new locations.
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You could still press and hold AF-ON, then press and hold shutter button half way and let the VR settle, finally press it all the way to get the shots. I never felt this was an issue, it allowed the user to lower the battery consumption during focus tracking by electing not to use VR until it was time. But then I guess they realized VR helps with focus tracking by helping the user keep the focus point steady, so it was then changed so that VR is activated at the same time the autofocus is initiated.
I prefer to use AF-ON to initiate AF because it allows modeless use of the camera; no switches to press to access manual focus, or AF on a static or moving subject. Always the same settings. The main drawback is that if a thumb button is used as AF-ON, the active focus point can't be moved by hand during tracking. However, I prefer focus to be independent of shutter button so I don't have to juggle between AF-C, AF-S, and MF. Also on tripod when photographung a static scene I cannot tolerate AF kicking in by accident after I have set up everything and want to take the shots.
Today one can program AF-ON on the lens buttons and front side Fn buttons so the thumb can be set free to move focus point around. However this is a bit too complicated to master for me, having used the cameras in a certain way for more than a decade... :o I guess the lens buttons on the new 70-200 will motivate me to experiment.
Ilkka is right on the money. This is the recommended way of operating.
I just add, AF-S works when you know what you are doing, and is the preferred way for some situations,,,
The late kicking in VR of the old days was super annoying especially with low light PJ style event shooting before we had high ISO,,,
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Thank you, Erik, Bjørn and Ilkka, for explaining the use of AF-On button.
I haven't used VR lens extensively, but I now understand how the half-pressing the shutter would potentially cause problems.
Personally I've had no problem with the half-pressing because this is what I've been doing since the film days (A mode and AE lock by half-pressing the shutter button, but, hey, there was no AF or VR!). But I've had the problem with the AF-S mode because of the AF errors. Often I have to re-half-press the shutter button to re-activate the AF. If the AF-C would mitigate the problem, I will try that mode. Also, the automatic compensation of the focus shift would be fully welcomed (if it is true).
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btw... it was a technical fault which caused this issue, the mechanism which was supposed to stop the AF when the subject was in focus didn't work. Nikon repaired it and since it works like a dream...