NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Akira on February 23, 2017, 06:45:32
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Shown at CP+. Hmm...
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1045857.html
(I expected Df2...)
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The signature is very reminiscent of the Contax Anniversary lenses.
I like the gun metal case and probably the sets are going to be collectors sets.
Bring it on.
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Yeah, but the concept for these 100th anniversary models are basically the same as that of F5 celebrating 50th anniversary of Nikon 135 film cameras.
Considering that the 100th anniversary of the company is more important occasion to celebrate, I would have expected more...
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Very 'cheap' way of celebrating an anniversary,,,, Let's see if more items show up,,,
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I agree. Adding a little label and a very impractical "electric drill" case is almost a party pooper.
Show some real anniversary product Nikon!!!
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I'm not suggesting Nikon copy what Leica does vith their M series, but Leica havs made some rather special versions like a full Titanium Leica M, with completely different design and functions. Otherwise Leica is well known for theses 'subtle' anniversary and other special -versions for collectors similar to the above,,,
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Not very thrilling. But I prefer that Nikon continues it's cost reduction / control exercise and put's it's money in developments that matter.
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Isn't the real anniversary in the summer?
They obviously can do better than what is to be exhibited at CP+
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Yes most likely - We are just anxious to see what they will come up with,,, 8)
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Let's hope for something new, it is needed ;)
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Nikon is probably thinking things through, carefully.
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Very disappointing CP+ for Nikon. Guess it doesn't pay to listen to the rumor mongers, too many false expectations.
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Well, I don't think Nikon needs any special anniversary products but simply standout products irrespective of anniversaries.
Note that many of last year's significant products were not introduced at trade fairs.
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Well, Nikon seems to be poor at announcing exciting products at the best timing. :D
The followers of D810, Df and D610 should be released or at least announced within this year.
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Looks like the anniversary will be on July 25 - from the latest e-mails from Nikon Nordic.
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As usual, I don't get it.
What you people expect exactly. A round the clock release of new products?
I guess the D5 and D500 and 19PC and 105E and 70/200 and 24/70 just don't cut it.
And when the D5s and D500s and 820/850 come out, people are going to complain that there is no D5x or D6 or whatever.
Why are you not satisfied from what you've got?
Will you be happy if they announce a Dxxx for the Anni with a 250/1.2 G and a 70/0.9. And will you can you buy afford the stuff.
What exactly is it that you want?
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Ethan, I would like a fish-eye for my Nikon underwater camera, AW1. For the rest I am with you, I simply have the necessary.
Plenty of folk would like to see (including myself) a titanium Df2.
Or, a 400/5.6 PF, or a 180/2.8 AF-S, etc.
So please let us dream in peace.
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Ethan, I would be happy with my current D750, but knowing the direction in which Nikon is heading for is beneficial to judge if it is worth staying with Nikon. As for the pixel count, the current 24MP is the best compromise between the resolution and other aspects of the sensor performance and is plenty enough for my requirement. I've seen excellent images from the now lowly 10MP D200 camera on a 4K screen (which means, the original images were even cropped to fit in the 9:16 frame!). So, a 24MP image should look amazing even on an 8k screen.
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D5x is high on my wish list, no video but LV, just because I like the idea and handling of the H and X series D cameras.
Df Titan - is my best guess, not sure it would 'fit' me,,, Since the first time I saw a Df I honestly thought it was a real Chrome or Titan model, not the chromed-look plastic chassis it turned out to be,,,
Dsp - mirror less FX 'rangefinder' size/style, I have a Leica M9 so again would not fit me,,,
Yes I can afford a D5x and would buy it even in Gunmetal ;)
Yes indeed there is no reason really that I should demand that Nikon come up with something like the above, it's just my dreams of how Nikon could celebrate their anniversary with great style and high end technology because I like to work with nice tools.
BTW a Nikkor FL 200mm f/2,,, naaaa i guess not,,,
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Nikon's official 100th birthday is on the 25th of July, just 2 days before mine! Yay.
From what I have experienced, Nikon typically starts their "updates" from the lower level cameras. Hence why we have a D7300 rumour. It should climb up the ladder to D6x0/D7x0 replacement or what I'm hoping is a D700 replacement, and eventually reach D8x0 and D5?. I still think the D750 is just an update to the D610.
As for lenses, I'm expecting a 300/2.8 FL version and maybe an update to the already 10-year-old but still brilliant 14-24. I'd love to see them manage to make it 13-24... I'll be happy even if it's realistically a 13.4mm! That would be perfect with my Laowa 12/2.8! We may even see something amazing, such as an FX mirrorless. It's the 100th anniversary after all and Eastern Asian companies typically do take pride in it and consider it an important milestone.
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Nikon Roadmap
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4147/5061820843_f05f731d85_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/8Hi9Za)Nikon Roadmap Timeline - Rumors - Future launching - UPDATED Q1 2017 (https://flic.kr/p/8Hi9Za) by Pablo Fernández (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hadock/), on Flickr
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Is this a roadmap, or a wish list? ;D
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That's five models due for update in the very near future. Given Nikon's current woes and the market slowdown, I wonder if will continue to refresh cameras at the same rate as before.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but from latest Nikon press releases, they will drop the four digits cameras (D7300 the last one?), and concentrate on three and one digit ones... medium/high end, as they said.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but from latest Nikon press releases, they will drop the four digits cameras (D7300 the last one?), and concentrate on three and one digit ones... medium/high end, as they said.
Pedro, I haven't heard of the news going into such a depth. Could you provide the link to it?
If they abandon the four-digit series, Nikon would have to develop pro-grade DX lenses for D500, otherwise D500 would be a virtual x1.5 teleconverter...
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Pedro, I haven't heard of the news going into such a depth. Could you provide the link to it?
If they abandon the four-digit series, Nikon would have to develop pro-grade DX lenses for D500, otherwise D500 would be a virtual x1.5 teleconverter...
Akira, they didn't say like this.
I'm extrapolating their announcement on very poorer financial results and needed restructuration. On top of these they said they will concentrate on medium/high end cameras.
http://nikonrumors.com/2017/02/24/nikon-we-plan-to-concentrate-on-medium-and-high-end-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras-and-lenses.aspx/
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Pedro, I haven't heard of the news going into such a depth. Could you provide the link to it?
If they abandon the four-digit series, Nikon would have to develop pro-grade DX lenses for D500, otherwise D500 would be a virtual x1.5 teleconverter...
Here is our conversation on the 'statement'
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,5330.msg87892.html#msg87892
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Thanks, Erik!
But my concern hasn't changed. If they keep the high(er)-end DX line, they need to add higher-end DX lenses, which should be tough for them in this situation.
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Akira, they didn't say like this.
I'm extrapolating their announcement on very poorer financial results and needed restructuration. On top of these they said they will concentrate on medium/high end cameras.
http://nikonrumors.com/2017/02/24/nikon-we-plan-to-concentrate-on-medium-and-high-end-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras-and-lenses.aspx/
Pedro, thanks for the additional link. Yes, you are right.
I'm still curious about the "mirrorless" segment they were referring to (FX or CX).
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Maybe I'm wrong, but from latest Nikon press releases, they will drop the four digits cameras (D7300 the last one?), and concentrate on three and one digit ones... medium/high end, as they said.
I don't think concentrating here quite means they would drop everything else; the way I read it is that they focus more of their resources on higher end products. But they've been doing that already; the D3400 is in some ways a feature-stripped model and it should not come as a surprise if it does not sell. The D5600 however seems to have Nikon's most advanced touch screen functionality, with menus and focus point controllable using touch in addition to the usual ways. I think the concept that you can use the viewfinder with your right eye and the right side of the touch screen to slide the focus point around is quite clever.
I think the D7200 is already "high end" and certainly won't be dropped. What has been in a decline is basically the D3x00, so if they drop a product line that would likely be it.
Four new FX cameras in 2017 is just wishful thinking. I think 1-2 FX and one DX is more realistic but of course I don't mind if they pleasantly surprise us.
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Thanks, Erik!
But my concern hasn't changed. If they keep the high(er)-end DX line, they need to add higher-end DX lenses, which should be tough for them in this situation.
Sorry I have no thoughts on DX lenses at all,,,
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Okay, I have to admit that I overly reacted.
Now that Nikon just released D3400 and D5600, it should be rather natural for Nikon to concentrate their resource on the higher-end cameras, namely, D7x00 and up.
That said, the most urgent issue for them should be to make SnapBridge work properly. I don't know if there are any Nikon cameras in any segment whose SnapBridge work flawlessly.
Incidentally, Toshiba announced the renewal of their FlashAir SD cards. They say that the new 4th generation series were designed from the ground up. The new FlashAir cards are faster in terms of the connection, read and write speeds. Also, they are compatible with Keenai apps which inherited the Eyefi services.
This is the link to the report from CP+ regarding FlashAir (sorry, texts are in Japanese):
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/eventreport/1046038.html
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I'm still curious about the "mirrorless" segment they were referring to (FX or CX).
I also think this is not clear. It could be redesigned Nikon 1 cameras, or a new lineup.
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As far as I have been able to wrench out information out of the Nikon Nordic guys, they basically don't know/can't say, however their long ties with Nikon and their decision processes give me/us some hints, I will go as far as to conclude/summarise my impressions re these conversations; Nikon is working on mirror less FX - Nikon management will not settle for sub-performance in the high end segment, they will be waiting until they can actually show a mature product that functionally makes sense and has actual benefits, differences and technological advancements compared to their current offerings in the high and medium-end of the DSLR segment.
Nikon is not willing to loose face over such an important high end prestige project. This is an inherent feature of their cultural back ground.
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I've also heard a rumor that Nikon is preparing for the FX mirrorless line. But apparently this is not possible for Nikon because of its (hopefully) temporary lack of stamina.
I think it is rather a good chance to "restart" the CX line. The current Sony 20MP 1" sensor is very capable and promising.
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I still hope for the AW Fisheye 3.8 mm lens. Nikon has filed the patent some time ago.
If they ever come out with a Df2, preferably titanium-fortified, I'll buy it in a jiffy. Or an FX mirrorless with option for mounting 'S' lenses. Make my day.
Just envision a mirrorless system on which you can mount any F or S lens, and program the interface/adapter to get all the basic EXIF parameters. What a treat.
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One of the bigger mistakes Nikon has made on Nikon 1 series is that the metering with the adopted lenses via third party adaptors are disabled. A and M modes should work without problem as any other mirrorless system.
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Couldn't agree more on that topic, Akira. The enforced lack of metering is very annoying and takes away a lot of the fun these small cameras engender on their own.
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Or an FX mirrorless with option for mounting 'S' lenses. Make my day.
Just envision a mirrorless system on which you can mount any F or S lens, and program the interface/adapter to get all the basic EXIF parameters. What a treat.
But then you'll want to install chips on your S lenses, if that's possible. 8)
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Nah. One should have an easily programmable interface to the adapter itself.
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Nah. One should have an easily programmable interface to the adapter itself.
Such an adapter already exists for Sony full frame mirrorless. It's made by a Chinese company and is called "TAP adapter", and even provides AF to unit focusing MF lenses. The programming is done via a BT interface. I suppose the guys behind it will happily reverse engineer a new Nikon mount too, since the haven't licensed the Sony protocol and swap the mount from Leica M to Nikon S.
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Exif data aside, metering in A or M mode should be easy enough, because in these modes, the camera only have to deal with the brightness of the entering light and adjust the shutter speed accordingly (in A mode). In a nutshell, it is a stop-down metering which is the matter of the camera. Unlike the S or P mode, the camera doesn't need to operate the aperture in the lens. Another advantage of mirrorless cameras is that they don't need to worry about the stray light entering from the optical viewfinder at all, which should make the metering easier.
I've read somewhere that Canon uses the very common RS232C protocol for the communication between the camera and the lens. The relative easiness of adopting Canon lenses on Sony bodies suggests that Sony also uses RS232C protocol which may be easy to reverse-engineer. Nikon should use more proprietary protocol.
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Novoflex already makes an adapter for mounting Nikon E type lenses on the Leica SL.
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Then that should be the first one ever. 8)
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I've read somewhere that Canon uses the very common RS232C protocol for the communication between the camera and the lens. The relative easiness of adopting Canon lenses on Sony bodies suggests that Sony also uses RS232C protocol which may be easy to reverse-engineer. Nikon should use more proprietary protocol.
I believe I read somewhere in the past that Nikon uses an I2C communication interface that is very common way of not so fast communication between a microcontroller and devices like memory chips, real time clocks etc. The other common microcontroller communication interface called SPI is faster and requires more wires. Both are serial interfaces but not RS232, which requires some change of voltage levels and inversion to be done correctly. Perhaps Canon also uses I2C or SPI serial interfaces and someone misinterpreted that as RS232? None of these are too complicated to implement (except the extra level shifters for true RS232, also RS232 relies on certain fixed transmission frequencies, baud rate, while SPI/I2C transmits a clock pulse on one of the lines), but of course in all cases one need to know exactly what is to be sent and how it is coded. To that end many of us benefit from the knowledge Bjørn has been able to obtain that makes lens chipping possible.
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Thanks, Øivind, for the correction.
I'm not expert for the computer programming or the digital communications, so I have no means to assess the infomation of this kind. But it is interesting to know that some of the camera manufacturers use common protocols for the communication between the camera and the lens. The m4/3 is an open format, so there should be descriptions for the communication method in the spec. sheets disclosed to the endorsers.
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Nah. One should have an easily programmable interface to the adapter itself.
So the idea is that you tell the adapter what the maximum lens aperture is, and this would be just like inputting the maximum aperture via the camera menu, only easier?
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I was more thinking of "loading" the adapter with complete set of basic EXIF. So one would have available the full aperture data (max. and min. values, incl. variations across the focal range for a zoom lens), exit pupil position, lens descriptor (as text), lens ID (MCU-type), etc. Could easily be done by sending a row of data from an sqllite lookup in a local database via blutooth or app on a smartphone. Enter a lens PIN number and press SEND and voilá your camera now is set up for say a Nikkor-S 5 cm f/1.5 to f/16.
Many RAW converters try to do this in reverse, often with hilarious results. One of the worst in this regard is Photo Ninja, that insists my 24/2.8 Nikkor AIS is a Fisheye (!) lens. I built my own lens identification module for the archival DB though to circumvent this issue.
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Thanks for the explanation, Bjørn. That makes sense.
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Is this a roadmap, or a wish list? ;D
My wish list because I hope Nikon will live to see the 101st anniversary. A lot of people do not believe that.
PS Fuji claims to be the only company in the market making money selling cameras.
PPS Sony also makes money but on Sensors not on cameras. Even Canon uses Sony sensors and Leica!!!