NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: David H. Hartman on February 11, 2017, 23:03:27
-
[My Bad?
It was the first 300/2.8, not the first 80-200/2.8, that was not an auto-aperture lens. It also was not an IF design. It was released to the press in January 1972, etc. More at Nikkor - The Thousand and One Nights, Tale No. 11.]
I've tried to find a paragraph I think I read at The Thousand and One Nights - Nikkor. It was not what the primary article was about. It was a detail about a particular lens designer. Here are the details as I remember them...
80-200mm f/2.8
Designed specifically for the Olympic Games (year?)
About 100 copies made
Never in the catalog
No auto-aperture!
Full manual aperture as the lens would be used for sports photography at f/2.8 to f/4.0
I believe this lens would predate the Nikon F3. Slow slide films of the day would be used and manual shutter speeds so the only reason to stop down would normally be for correct exposure. An aperture of f/4.0 would be bright enough for focus and composition. I assume the camera would be motor driven.
I've searched with Google to no avail. I've searched FireFox for a bookmark and haven't found one. I do dream about photography but no auto-aperture is not something I'd dream about.
Since about 100 copies were made this lens is not a prototype. If it were a sports car it could race at La Mans in a production class. Again it was never listed in the Nikon catalog.
Dave Hartman who hopes not many cats lose a life to curiosity.
-
Peter Braczko lists the prototype 2-ring model of the 80-200/2.8 ED as being made in late 1978, and presented at PhotoKina that year. No details of numbers except for the statement ".. remained a prototype as only a very few of them were sold". It is said to be a 12/9 design weighing 1.7 kg and having ED glass. Filter thread a whopping 86 mm.
This corresponds to Roland Vink's entry of a prototype 80-200/ED 2-ring for 1978, serial numbers unknown.
The production model was a massive push-pull zoom 80-200/2.8 ED AIS in 1982, featuring beautiful workmanship, 15/11 optical design, weight 1.9 kg, and an even bigger front thread now of 95 mm size. About 1500 of them were made before the onslaught of the AF models commenced a few years later. I own one nice sample and its optical quality is first rate. Due to its heft, it thrives best on a tripod.
-
I'd be very surprised if 100 were made.
These are the only images I have of that lens.
One is from Peter's book, I've added the gold ED ring :P
-
The first photo is very crisp and detailed. Is this a press photo of some kind?
The tripod collar is quite similar in shape to that of the 1982 AIS production model, but differs by apparently being detachable.
-
The first photo is very crisp and detailed. Is this a press photo of some kind?
I can't exactly remember where I got that image from.
I've added Peter's name to the title so it must be a scan from one of his books.
I have edited it by cleaning it up and sharpening the detail, but only a touch up - nothing major.
-
Here's some info about the AI-S version taken from a Photokina '82 press kit that Nikon had put together for the official launch of the new lens.
-
That's the 80-200/2.8 ED lens I own for sure.
Besides being a display of excellent workmanship, it zooms and focuses in a silky smooth manner. The tripod collar, albeit looking a bit scanty, is very robustly made and easily holds the heavy lens perfectly stable on a tripod. Not a lens I would use for for hand-held shooting though, but on a monopod it might work.
We should make a survey of how many NG members own this lens. Besides myself, I know of one additional sample in possession of a registered member. I suspect there are more of them in our ranks.
-
Not a lens I would use for for hand-held shooting though, but on a monopod it might work.
why!? :o :o :o
these are sure rare. they aren't cheap when they appear ::)
-
Still a lens and should be used as such.
I didn't pay through the nose for my sample of the 80-200/2.8 ED, quite the contrary. Thus even more the reason for shooting with the lens.
-
The New Nikon Compendium. pg 200
"As zoom lenses became ever more popular with professional photographers they demanded a lens with a wider maximum aperture. Nikon developed a two-ring prototype 80-200mrn f/2.8 lens that was displayed at the Photokina exhibition in 1975, however, it did not go into production. It was not until four years later that the Zoom-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8 ED appeared. A large lens that provides superb image quality it had an equally impressive price tag!"
-
Here's the example that I own, #182218.
It's the only boxed example that I've seen.
-
Must be a typho for the appearance of the 80-200 (2-ring). All other literature state 1978 and that year fits with the statement of a 4-year period until the production model was shown, which was in 1982.
I do have the Nikon press releases for PhotoKina 1975 and no mentioning of the 80-200 can be found there. They did exhibit the 20/2.8 (prototype), 24/2, Noct 58/1.2, and the ED-version of the 800 mm f/8 lens head.
-
My 80-200/2.8 AIS came with the original hood HN-25, but otherwise no auxiliaries. Serial number 182268 thus only 50 units away from your lens !!
The number of 80-200/2.8 ED AIS units in the NG community now has climbed to 3. Not bad for such a rare lens. Any more of them out there?
-
Size comparison.
70-200mm f/2.8 AF VRII vs 80-200mm f/2.8 AI-S
-
My 80-200/2.8 AIS came with the original hood HN-25, but otherwise no auxiliaries. Serial number 182268 thus only 50 units away from your lens !!
What side is the tripod collar nut on your lens?
-
Left hand side seen from above the index mark, thus the same as on your sample.
-
A few examples with the 80-200/2.8 ED AIS to show its quality.
-
The out-of-focus behaviour of the 80-200 mm f/2.8 ED AIS is exemplary. Although its near limit is just shy of 2.5 m, quite tight environmental portraits of larger flowers and plants are feasible with the zoom extended towards its 200 mm setting.
This is Anthemis tinctoria on a timber storage area, where it thrives on the sandy soils. It is not strictly a 'weed' though, merely a coloniser of dry calcareous ground.
-
The Image in #18 is well worth viewing large - quite delightful and the flowers are complete with insect life (pollinators?).
-
My 80-200/2.8 AIS came with the original hood HN-25, but otherwise no auxiliaries. Serial number 182268 thus only 50 units away from your lens !!
The number of 80-200/2.8 ED AIS units in the NG community now has climbed to 3. Not bad for such a rare lens. Any more of them out there?
I have one that I haven't used yet. I was going to do some shooting with this obscure lens and do a post here but others beat me to it.
When I bought it the cost was reasonable, certainly much less than some of the new lenses being discussed on this forum. It appears that the supply is small but so is the demand.
-
Yes, please do Bill. The more the merrier.
Apparently the number of these lenses held by NG members now stands at 4.
What is the serial number of your sample?
-
Yes, please do Bill. The more the merrier.
Apparently the number of these lenses held by NG members now stands at 4.
What is the serial number of your sample?
I just came downstairs and went to NikonGear with the unit sitting in my lap for this very purpose!
182238. Now checking out the lens and cleaning it. Initial alarm over a spot was due to poor perception on my part
-
Back in 1984, I elected to get one of these instead of either of the Nikkors. Years later, I picked up an 80-200mm f/4 AI-s just to see what I missed.
https://books.google.com/books?id=iX8DD7NGeiwC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=tokina+80-200mm+f/2.8+1984
-
I just came downstairs and went to NikonGear with the unit sitting in my lap for this very purpose!
182238. Now checking out the lens and cleaning it. Initial alarm over a spot was due to poor perception on my part
Fantastic ! NG members have 3 such lenses within a 50 unit range of serial numbers :D That is concurrency for sure.
-
I'm pretty sure member AndyE also has an AIS 80-200/2.8 ED.
Getting back to the original question, what David describes sounds very similar to the original 300mm f/2.8 ED lens.
Read about it here: http://www.nikkor.com/story/0011/. It matches pretty much everything described except it is 300mm not 80-200 :)
I've tried to find a paragraph I think I read at The Thousand and One Nights - Nikkor. It was not what the primary article was about. It was a detail about a particular lens designer. Here are the details as I remember them...
80-200mm f/2.8
Designed specifically for the Olympic Games (year?)
About 100 copies made
Never in the catalog
No auto-aperture!
Full manual aperture as the lens would be used for sports photography at f/2.8 to f/4.0
-
Funny, I also immediately had the prototype Nikkor 300/2.8 (non-ED and ED, both with pre-set aperture) in mind. I believe a small series of them was ready for the 1972 Olympics?
-
Funny, I also immediately had the prototype Nikkor 300/2.8 (non-ED and ED, both with pre-set aperture) in mind. I believe a small series of them was ready for the 1972 Olympics?
LOL, I did the same thing................I actually posted about the 300mm and even gave a link to Matthew Lin's site...............but ended up editing the post when I realised the mistake! It was the reference to the Olympics that threw me.
-
A few from a Japanese garden:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2263/32491478530_2c83470449_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RvajzG)Japanese Garden 3 (https://flic.kr/p/RvajzG) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr f/5.6
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/539/32491484950_f19e21449c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rvamuo)Japanese Garden 2 (https://flic.kr/p/Rvamuo) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr f/5.6
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/511/32491482160_9a61e856e1_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RvakEh)Japanese Garden 1 (https://flic.kr/p/RvakEh) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr f/8
And one from the hills:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2436/32872630835_5a5ae2312b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S5QPTa)Wiedermann Hill (https://flic.kr/p/S5QPTa) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr f/8
These taken with a Nikon D810 and were downsized to 16%. No cropping or sharpening, and just minimal adjustments on the pond image.
Too bad about the glitch in the lower right on the last one, but I wanted to show the entire image.
-
[EDIT: This post appears to have two errors. First, I didn't achieve full sharpness in the center and I don't think this is due to the lens. Second, when comparing edges and the center on a high-resolution camera, it's not enough to just have them at *about* the same distance. Even a small difference in distance can affect sharpness.]
100% crops from the hills image in my previous post. There were taken from the left, center, and right of the same ridge, respectively, at about the same distance from the camera. The center of the center crop is where focus was made, at about 1250 meters. Focus was done in live view. Shutter release was done by remote with the mirror up. Aperture was f/8.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2826/32058399013_12e480d4f9_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QQTF8t)Hills Left Crop (https://flic.kr/p/QQTF8t) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/32058399973_07fb2424a7_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QQTFq2)Hills Center Crop (https://flic.kr/p/QQTFq2) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/662/32058398423_d9ddcd1d5d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QQTEXi)Hills Right Crop (https://flic.kr/p/QQTEXi) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
-
Mystery solved: the lens was the first 300/2.8 Nikkor not the first 80-200/2.8 Nikkor.
Dave
-
I am happy to report that the number of these lenses held by NG members now stands at 5 ::)
SN is 182348
-
Ownership is contagious :D Do hope you got it for a fair price ...
Even more remarkable is how the serials are clustered. Your lens is just 80 units away from mine !!
-
Getting back to the original question, what David describes sounds very similar to the original 300mm f/2.8 ED lens.
Read about it here: http://www.nikkor.com/story/0011/. It matches pretty much everything described except it is 300mm not 80-200 :)
Thanks! Roland, that's the article I remember but remembered incorrectly. I was looking for your reply. I figured you would know.
Dave
-
Ownership is contagious :D Do hope you got it for a fair price ...
Even more remarkable is how the serials are clustered. Your lens is just 80 units away from mine !!
I got mine from KEH a few years ago after passing up earlier ones.
Today's weather has kept me inside, but I really want to get out tomorrow during a brief window between rainstorms and see if I can get some better shots than last time. The landscape is so green after years of drought, the fruit trees are starting to bloom, and we've probably seen our last frost of the winter in the local area. The high mountains will still be locked in snow and ice for months to come, though.
-
Two more on the D810 with some cropping and modest tweaking:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/284/32169077083_1c63c762c4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/R1EVS4)Plum Blossoms #1 (https://flic.kr/p/R1EVS4) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2811/32139742584_ef49812762_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QY5zJQ)Laurel Hill (https://flic.kr/p/QY5zJQ) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
-
As I explained in my edit to my post of February 12, my previous post of pixel-level crops from this lens presented an inaccurate view of this lens' capabilities. Today I went out again with this lens, albeit under less favorable circumstances, and tried to do better. These were shot on a D810 at 200mm and f/8. The day was windy and the resulting distortions were visible in magnified live view, so these photos likely don't show maximum sharpness. Still, these are sharper results than the center crop I posted on February 12.
Mobile phone tower about 700 meters away, cropped and downsized:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3881/33096910456_495e8d5e07_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SqEjpb)Phone_tower (https://flic.kr/p/SqEjpb) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
Actual pixels from the center and point of focus:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2443/32755813410_d9b032f4b3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RUw78C)Phone_tower_actual_pixels (https://flic.kr/p/RUw78C) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
Bird about 30 meters away, actual pixels:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2385/32755809760_b6ef000580_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RUw63G)Bird_actual_pixels (https://flic.kr/p/RUw63G) by Bill de Jager (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99349448@N06/), on Flickr
-
Received my Mint- new lens and boy I am happy! 100% center crop to show f2.8 sharpness at approximately 20m
-
Thanks for the confirmation of the image quality attainable by this old masterpiece. The lens looks really pristine, too (while it lasts).
Might I inquire about the serial number?
-
Here is the next proud owner of this legendary lens ;)
Thought it might be nice if I posted some pics taken with the lens.
First, of the lens:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DncAAOSwy0JaQ-2s/s-l1600.jpg)
I let it get a professional service, found a HN-25 hood in its box, found the original metal screw in cap in its box and
the original operating manual as well as a leatherette Nikon cap that fits perfectly over the HN-25.
Some pics:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4685/38739546254_0a08108e44_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/222hirh)Mundenhof _9 von 40_ (https://flic.kr/p/222hirh) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4636/27670307349_c53b5870fa_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8ymD)Nikkor 80-200mm 2_8 AIS ED _3 von 9_ (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8ymD) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4599/27670307699_d4322e1d29_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8ysF)Europapark Rust _8 von 14_ (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8ysF) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4644/38739546404_8c2e7c8712_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/222hitS)Europapark Rust _7 von 14_ (https://flic.kr/p/222hitS) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/39447713071_fd6da9d20e_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/236RQKZ)Europapark Rust _4 von 14_ (https://flic.kr/p/236RQKZ) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4728/27670307879_a06d8523d8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8yvM)01_12_2012 Schauinsland nach Schneefall _98 von 98_ (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8yvM) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4681/38569111135_8fbb5c9dbe_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM1K)01_12_2012 Schauinsland nach Schneefall _61 von 98_ (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM1K) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4686/27670307929_47f895edfc_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8ywD)Nikon D1 _ 80-200mm 2_8 AIS ED _74 von 80_ (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8ywD) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4588/38569111045_77b541048d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LdLZc)15_06_-17_06_12 Solothurn _17 von 208_ (https://flic.kr/p/21LdLZc) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4728/27670308029_59d0a71606_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8yyn)15_06_-17_06_12 Solothurn _177 von 208_ (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8yyn) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4598/39447714081_a54965b205_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/236RR4p)15_06_-17_06_12 Solothurn _167 von 208_ (https://flic.kr/p/236RR4p) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4692/38569111165_d1ac67550c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM2g)15_06_-17_06_12 Solothurn _164 von 208_ (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM2g) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4592/27670308279_40eeda1b5a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8yCF)15_06_-17_06_12 Solothurn _150 von 208_ (https://flic.kr/p/Ja8yCF) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4733/38569111225_fddc3ea5fb_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM3i)15_06_-17_06_12 Solothurn _95 von 208_ (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM3i) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4592/39447714171_7225c5d48d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/236RR5X)Mundenhof _40 von 40_ (https://flic.kr/p/236RR5X) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4595/38569111295_9f307ba664_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM4v)Mundenhof _4 von 40_ (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM4v) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4680/38569111375_af77610fe4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM5T)Mundenhof _36 von 40_ (https://flic.kr/p/21LdM5T) by Dane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145997303@N07/), auf Flickr
-
No doubt this is a capable performer judged from those example photos.
However, you "forgot" the serial number :D
-
Sorry, didn't know you need it ?
What's the purpose?
However here it is: 181872
-
More of a curiosity how close the lenses owned by NG members are clustered :D
Your lens is a couple of hundred units earlier than mine.
-
Why is it surprising that people who live in the same region have lenses whose serial numbers are close?
-
One of the unsolved mysteries
-
Probably batches of lenses were all sent to the same region, although it is worth noting that total production is only around 1539 units, so it is not surprising that most lenses owned by NG members have serial numbers that are relatively close :)
Dane, a very nice lens you have there, and you show it is a very capable performer. You managed to get some good closeup shots even though the lens does not focus particularly close. Your lens is from the first sub-type with the tripod locking knob on the right. Starting around no. 181999 lenses start to appear with the locking knob on the left.
-
Thx Roland! Yes actually the 'close focusing shots' are just cropped. Resolution helped. But I wanted to show the amazing potential this lens has.
-
From Nikkor - The Thousand and One Nights:
Among Japanese lens-lovers, 300mm f/2.8 lenses are friendly called "San, Ni-Ppa (3, 2-8)". Nikon's first "3, 2-8" lens was born from the wish of taking sharp photos with the shutter speed as fast as possible at the event of Sapporo Winter Olympics.
(1972 Winter Olympics, Sapporo Japan)
From looking at the photograph at Nikkor - The Thousand and One Nights the lens had a straight manual aperture control, not a preset which requires two rings. The reason for manual aperture control was for optimal placement of the aperture blade and because the lens would be used wide open to one stop closed (f/2.8~f/4.0). A preset aperture control would slow down use of the lens for sports photography. If an aperture of f/3.2 was required for exposure of slide film the photographer would set f/3.2 and shoot.
Here is a link to the article. Have a look and see what you think...
NIKKOR - The Thousand and One Nights No.11
NIKKOR-H 300mm F2.8
(http://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0011/index.htm)
Dave Hartman
-
Ffordes.co.uk currently has four of these for sale. Prices are from £1500-£2000.
https://www.ffordes.com/c/524/nikon-manual?p=3&q=524
-
still waiting for a junk one :o :o :o
-
still waiting for a junk one :o :o :o
The 80-200 or the 300?
I have the original 80-200/2.8 AIS and it is an impressive piece of heavy glass and beautifully finished metal. Images delivered are nice as well :)
The chance of getting the early 300/2.8 H Nikkor would be slim though, as probably less than 20 items more or less accidentally came on the market.
-
The 80-200 or the 300?
I have the original 80-200/2.8 AIS and it is an impressive piece of heavy glass and beautifully finished metal. Images delivered are nice as well :)
The chance of getting the early 300/2.8 H Nikkor would be slim though, as probably less than 20 items more or less accidentally came on the market.
both? :o :o :o
-
Just got mine this afternoon, I hurt my back just by shooting with it while walking inside my house :o :o :o
I find that it is optically good, but the later ones perform better. The minimum focusing distance is 2.5m, I think this is the biggest issue ::)
-
Just got mine this afternoon, I hurt my back just by shooting with it while walking inside my house :o :o :o
I find that it is optically good, but the later ones perform better. The minimum focusing distance is 2.5m, I think this is the biggest issue ::)
How is your new location in terms of sourcing old Nikkor lenses? Here in Japan I have given up on eBay for lenses, even from sellers in Japan. The variety and quality of items seems better in the US. Shipping quotes are several thousand yen, and whereas in the past a PM could get a normal inside Japan shipping rate, I find now that sellers say they can’t change it.
Yahoo auctions seems to have more cowboys than before.
When I sell stuff I use Mercari, and usually buyers are from overseas - taking advantage of the exchange rate.
-
Compared to the last incarnation, AFS 80-200mm f/2.8 D, the old behemoth 80-200mm f/2.8 AIS might not be sharper however it does suffer much less from vignetting. Plus it is even better for IR photography :) Not the slightest trace of a hot spot even with the lens stopped all the way down. This is unusual to say the least!!
Both are now on the [too] heavy side for my current liking. Feminisation has its drawbacks, like everything else in this world. Good on me the Sachtler tripods are lightweights, though.