NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: PKS on January 06, 2017, 03:05:56
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A few months into my photography endeavor so an amateur in every sense. I have been using a Nikkormat FTN as my first camera with BW film. I just purchased a Nikon D2h in near mint condition as my first digital camera.
A couple of questions for those who have used this machine. I know its old. The files are small and I am not a professional nor am I savvy with software or computers. There are many menu options…. I have set it up and kept default settings. Using much like my Nikkormat. Adjust ISO, Shutter and Aperture. Keeping on auto white balance for now.
What affect will the in camera settings have on a jpeg file? Same as a raw file? I know a raw file can be processed where a jpeg is essentially processed in camera. So…adjusting the in camera setting will have no affect on a raw file?
Lastly for now. I have 14 days to play with this camera before I can return it. I like the feel of it in my hands and it is incredibly responsive. However, it has an ERR message after the first shutter actuation. Seems after a bit of online research, this is common for this model and many have experienced years of trouble free performance after the first actuation. Some on the other hand suggest it was downhill and problems amplified to the point where the shutter died after a short time.
I purchased the D2h after reading Bjorn's review on his old site I came upon by accident over the holidays. I have 4 old Nikkor lenses with my FTN and thus thought it to be a good match for the D2h. I do not own any other lenses. These lenses have been converted to AI. Right now I am essentially capturing my family (mostly kids, activities and sports).
Any thoughts or comments from personal experience with this model? Thank you.
Paul
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My observation was the Nikon D2Hs had better high ISO performance. I would assume lower noise would also mean better dynamic range. I sold my D2H for $185.00 (USD) about a year ago.
I found the D2H easier for manual focus than either my D300s and my D800. The focus screens are designed to be user exchangeable.
Dave Hartman
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If you can afford a used D3 I would rather go for her. She is as fast as the D2H but due to the 24x36 qmm chip she has a bigger mirror, more light entering the view finder so the view finder generally brighter and bigger and it should be easier to manual focus....
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A few months into my photography endeavor so an amateur in every sense. I have been using a Nikkormat FTN as my first camera with BW film. I just purchased a Nikon D2h in near mint condition as my first digital camera.
I still have one, although i don't use it anymore. Should take it out sometime :D
What affect will the in camera settings have on a jpeg file? Same as a raw file? I know a raw file can be processed where a jpeg is essentially processed in camera. So…adjusting the in camera setting will have no affect on a raw file?
Correct, the in camera settings only affect the rendered file (JPEG or TIFF), but not the raw file (NEF). The settings are, however, used to render the on screen image. So keep that in mind.
Lastly for now. I have 14 days to play with this camera before I can return it. I like the feel of it in my hands and it is incredibly responsive. However, it has an ERR message after the first shutter actuation. Seems after a bit of online research, this is common for this model and many have experienced years of trouble free performance after the first actuation. Some on the other hand suggest it was downhill and problems amplified to the point where the shutter died after a short time.
I've had the Err message a few times and usually it just takes turning off and on the camera to clear it. It must lead to some greater problem somewhere down the line. Depends a bit on how many shutter actuations your sample has.
I purchased the D2h after reading Bjorn's review on his old site I came upon by accident over the holidays. I have 4 old Nikkor lenses with my FTN and thus thought it to be a good match for the D2h. I do not own any other lenses. These lenses have been converted to AI. Right now I am essentially capturing my family (mostly kids, activities and sports).
Any thoughts or comments from personal experience with this model? Thank you.
Paul
Like i said, i do own one and have used it quite extensively. It indeed feels good in your hands and is incredibly responsive (even though the D3s is even more so). It works well with all sorts of lenses, but since the view finder is rather small manual lenses may become a problem. Depends on your eye sight. It drives AF screw driver lenses like no other (reviews say it comes close to the power the F5 had).
I've had much fun with it and don't let the 4 Mpix fool you. If you know what to shoot and how, big prints are very well possible from it.
Go out and have fun with it!
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If you can afford a used D3 I would rather go for her. She is as fast as the D2H but due to the 24x36 qmm chip she has a bigger mirror, more light entering the view finder so the view finder generally brighter and bigger and it should be easier to manual focus....
Equating a bigger mirror/finder with a brighter view finder is a common mistake. The area to be covered is larger as well, so brigthness (intensity on an area basis) is not necessarily higher. Usually it is the opposite, as any old-timer using view cameras can attest to.
Nobody will deny the D3 was and still is a great camera, but the same applies to D2H as long as one understands to pull the maximum out of its files. I have had double-page magazine covers printed from D2H files and the editor was happy.
The D3 did introduce useful high(er) ISO photography, though.
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The camera is broken if it shows Err in the display, I would return it!
D3 is by far a much better camera in all aspects. Second hand prices are very low now even for D3.
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D2H suffered from two major design failure of the circuit boards. Both were addressed even outside the warranty (at least in Japan). Your sample might have been left untreated. Better to return it, unfortunately.
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The D3 is very sturdy and at 800 Euros very cheap for a professional grade body. I still feel it could be all the camera I ever need for the rest if my life. 12 Megapixel give you huge prints, the tonality and high ISO capability make her versatile to near infinity. A wonderful film like character of the files. Great ergonomics. A real mile stone. Only thing bad is really loud operation. You will not like to use her in church service or theatre. I will not sell her. Superb machine.
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The D3 is 5x the cost of the D2h in the same condition. Well out of my range. Even one in "bargain" condition or beat up is 4x the cost. My D2h has 900 shutter actuations. I may take my chances. It seems there are D2h users that have had this malady since new and have well over 150,000 now without further issue. It is a gamble I know but for what I paid,($200)it may be worth it.
Regarding the manual focus; Can the focus screen be changed? I miss the split prism of the FTN. My eyes are fine but a little help goes a long way. I am not overly fond of autofocus but perhaps that is the way to go long term. My budget is limited so an old screw drive lens may work.
I will play with the in camera settings a bit to see what changes occur with an image. I really no nothing about post production but did download NXD.
Thanks for all the help. I am sure I will have many more questions along the way.
Paul
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If Erik says: Take the Err Message seriously, you should really listen. Erik really knows stuff.
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Of course Erik is right. He always is 8)
However, the D2h had the tendency to sometimes throw an Err. For many people that didn't lead to (disastrous) failures.
D2h didn't have much exposure bandwith though. Internet claimed about 5 stops, somewhat the same apparently as slide film. Here a shot i could find from Scotland. I used a couple of exposures to overcome the large(ish) difference in exposure between highlight and lowlight. A modern camera would have pulled this out of one raw file (D810 for example).
Anyhoo, with proper sharpening (and not viewed too up close), this could print to about 30x45cm, or even to 40x60cm. As long as you don't hang it next to a print by a megapixel monster at least ;D ;D
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After further contemplation....I have sent the D2h back. I am returning to my FTN and BW film for now. I will see about a D3 and digital down the road a bit. Thanks for all your help and comments.
Paul
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After further contemplation....I have sent the D2h back. I am returning to my FTN and BW film for now. I will see about a D3 and digital down the road a bit. Thanks for all your help and comments.
Paul
No worries Paul. Do show us some of your analog work !
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After further contemplation....I have sent the D2h back. I am returning to my FTN and BW film for now. I will see about a D3 and digital down the road a bit. Thanks for all your help and comments.
Paul
Paul - what a pity but probably a very wise move in the end. However - I would seriously agree with the other guys - see what you can lay your hands on digital wise - I hope that's not too far in the future. Have fun
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Hi Paul. Definitely keep a D700 in your sights as an alternative to a D3. They share the same sensor and have similar AF technologies. The D700 is smaller and IMHO is in many ways an easier camera to handle. Probably about half the price used. I still have mine and like its size and usability a lot.
However if you are looking at a D3, save the extra and get a D3s. The alternative is a used Df. I do concede that these last two options are probably around $US1,500 at this current time, so some saving will be required. The Df has a tweaked D4 sensor.
Happy hunting! ;D
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What affect will the in camera settings have on a jpeg file? Same as a raw file? I know a raw file can be processed where a jpeg is essentially processed in camera. So…adjusting the in camera setting will have no affect on a raw file?
The settings used in camera do have an effect on the RAW or NEF file. There is a JPG preview included in the NEF file. That preview is the same as a JPG file that can be saved in camera as a standalone JPG.
The NEF file will be tagged with the in camera settings and that will be your starting point when you use Nikon software, CaptureNX2 or CaptureNX-D. You can change those settings before you develop the NEF as they are not "baked in" so you can develop the NEF with other settings.
Third party software may or may not be aware of the incamera settings beyond a few like the white balance settings. The don't have Nikon's secret sauce so they can't develope the NEF exactly as Nikon software would but the have their own secret sauce. It like to different cooks creating the same dish, similar but different.
I like Nikon's CaptureNX-D though it sucked at first. I liked Nikon's CaptureNX2 and wished there had been a CaptureNX3 but that was not to be. I recommend downloading CaptureNX-D and giving it a try. It's a free download. I develop my NEF(s) in CaptureNX-D and pass them to Photoshop for finishing.
There are may alternatives to Nikon software from Capture One, DXO, Adobe and more. I want to try Capture One but haven't made the time yet.
I hope something here helps,
Dave Hartman
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Paul,
I don't mean to imply anything about your photographic skills, I don't know what they are, but using a digital camera of some sort is the quickest and cheapest way to practice photography. Quick because feedback is nearly instantaneous, and cheap because once you have the equipment each image is nearly free. It allows you to really practice. And practice and experimentation are the key to getting better.
Have you considered a used D200? Takes AI lenses and should be dirt cheap these days. It was what I used until I moved to a Df.
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After further contemplation....I have sent the D2h back. I am returning to my FTN and BW film for now. I will see about a D3 and digital down the road a bit. Thanks for all your help and comments. Paul
A flawlessly working D2H is a great thing, do not let us discourage you.
If you are on a budget and ready to work with RAW files only (crappy JPEGs) then the Nikon D70 & D70s might also be an option. It can be had for 120 Euros including lens: e.g. eBay No. 182404648688
Sell off the lens and get the camera for free!
I used two D70 to make my living till I could afford the D3 new in 2008!
And: I found split prism replacement screens for both of them. I used manual focus lenses a lot.
It is a crappy camera from today's view point, but if you learn to handle her and develop her RAWs she delivers IMO better than a D200, which is a better camera construction wise but the RAWs have less leverage and fall apart if you do not nail the exposure within a very small margin.
For slow photography also the D2X might be considered. Her viewfinder is very good compared to the D70!
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I will keep an eye out for another D2h that does not have the ERR issue. I like the size and responsiveness in my short time with the camera. The files are also small and would help with learning post production particularly with raw files. My computer skills are not the best.I do understand a bit about its limitations as I have read a lot. Small DR and nailing exposure....I could not think of a better tool to learn on then. You either figure it out or you get lousy results. I cannot say that I have any "photographic skills" yet. As you say, it takes practice and with film, I am less likely to practice because of the cost, so I therefore take far less pictures. Most of what I do take centers around my children. Their activities and or sports if I am not coaching. I do like the simplicity of the FTN and the split prism for focusing. I have tried other cameras from colleagues and friends with autofocus. Had a harder time with those though the time spent was quite short. A split prism on a D2h would be nice. Anyway, thank you all for your encouragement and comments. I will keep you posted.
Paul
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for not a lot more money you can get the awesome D2Xs :o :o :o
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Hallo,
d2h has just relieved me of registering date and time on every image it makes (the internal battery that remembers them got exhausted, i think) - i recently heard a leica was introduced with no rear display, so it's the new trend, i guess -- (and if my d2h shows the err message, it will probably be about composition)
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The D3 as well as the D700 and DF are well out of my price range. I do hope to purchase one in the future. However, I just last evening purchased a D2xs for a good price. It should arrive some time next week. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
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The D2X was my main workhorse for several years before the FX era of Nikon opened with the D3. It is really an excellent camera if you recall its ISO performance is typical for its vintage, so keep ISO setting to 400 or below. The view finder is clear and bright and the handling of the camera is straight forward and simple. It has GPS support which for inscrutable reasons the D2H lacked (but even weirder, the D2Hs featured).
This generation of DSLRs did not have Liveview so ensure the finder dioptre is set correctly for best focusing accuracy. My eyesight fluctuates throughout the day, so I redo these adjustments several times each day.
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Thanks Bjorn. I will let you know how I get along with it. I may consider adding the magnifying eye piece for manual focus as suggested in the other thread. I had only a day to play with the D2h before sending it back due to the ERR issue. However, the viewfinder in the Nikkormat is so much better. I will assume the viewfinder in the D2xs is the same as the D2h? Having no experience with digital, I was surprised to see such a difference in the viewfinders.
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More or less all of the D cameras have viewfinders optimized for viewing and using AF,,, but dismissing them is a great mistake, they are build for different purposes!
Df is slightly better,,,
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Don't forget the ground glass screen can be replaced ... I have a K3 split-image screen in my Df, and this makes the already excellent finder of the Df even better.
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Hi Erik; I will likely move to an autofocus lens at some point. I do like the use of an aperture ring and manual focus is the only experience I have thus far. In addition, since I already have four lenses, it makes sense to start there and see how I do with digital. Worse case, I sell it and just go back to my Nikkormat.
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Most here has been/are shooting MF lenses on D1 and D2 series of cameras no big problem ;)
There are many AF lenses with aperture ring, called AF and AF-D ;)
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With that D2Xs you will need a CF card reader and some extra CF cards. No need to buy the biggest (and moist expensive) CF cards, as 8 GB cards will be perfect for this camera.
You might be advised to buy one or more additional EN-EL4a batteries as well. Such batteries have a limited longevity in actual use, around 3 years from my experience.