NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: BW on December 16, 2016, 17:08:44
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My Df startet to show signs of hard use today. I usually use old lenses with the little wonder. The aperture readings from the mechanical coupling has worked flawless since I started using it, but today it wouldn't read apertures under f5,6. When I turned the ring from stopped down to full opening the reading gradually went down until long after I stopped turning the ring, but stopped at f8 or f5,6. Stopped down, the f22 lenses, read f45. So to get the correct exposure I had to use ISO to compensate. Some insider DIY tips or just use NPS?
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My guess is that the ceramic plate holding the aperture follower circuitry has developed a hairline crack. The plate sits on the front under the upper part of the camera mount.
Nikon some years ago changed over from a pliable print to the ceramic plate for their DSLRs (only apply to those with aperture followers). Probably cheaper and more "cost effective" (heard that phrase before?), but susceptible to frontal impacts.
If this indeed is the cause of your observed problem, use a 'G' lens and set the aperture through the camera's front dial. Should work as the signal pathway is routed differently.
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I get such issue when I forget to put back the aperture index after using a ''non AI lens'', and use a normal lens.
I can't of course blame my Df ! ;D
However, a ''warning alert'' is missing when that happens.
Have you checked the coupling between this index and the flange notch of your lens ?
Have you checked the information you gave in the ''non CPU'' menu ?
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The G-lenses works fine, but the older lenses seem to be off by a mile :( I think it is time it goes back to Nikon for a full check up. Maybe they can change the rubber and fix all the other quirks it has. Should I change back to the original focus screen before they start to scrutinize it?
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Remove the screen just for safety.
A pity you confirm my suspicion about the poor design of the Df. This issue could have been avoided quite easily in the construction.
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Thanks Bjørn! The 100th anniversary Df, next summer, will be perfect ;D
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Remove the screen just for safety.
A pity you confirm my suspicion about the poor design of the Df. This issue could have been avoided quite easily in the construction.
The D7000 had the same problem of poor design on that part :o :o :o
that egg shell thing is very sensitive, i was told NOT to touch that part by the service centre staff ::)
plenty of FT2's have bad meters because of the dead FRE
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My Df startet to show signs of hard use today. I usually use old lenses with the little wonder. The aperture readings from the mechanical coupling has worked flawless since I started using it, but today it wouldn't read apertures under f5,6. When I turned the ring from stopped down to full opening the reading gradually went down until long after I stopped turning the ring, but stopped at f8 or f5,6. Stopped down, the f22 lenses, read f45. So to get the correct exposure I had to use ISO to compensate. Some insider DIY tips or just use NPS?
it can be DIY'd but it's something that I will leave to the repair guys to do since it involves removing the front plate. if the case is indeed what Bjørn said :o :o :o
that eggshell-looking part can be very delicate
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/52gAAOSwImRYT2OH/s-l1600.jpg)
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The D7000 had the same problem of poor design on that part :o :o :o
Never had the problem with two samples of D7000s of mine. But indeed the part looks flimsy.
Børge, hope the trouble will be addressed at a minimum possible cost.
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Børge,
Mine was replaced under warranty. There was a Service Advisory to Nikon Repair Centres but not published to owners/users. Not sure that they would do a full service but might replace that part under warranty. No problems since but I do pay a bit more attention to the Df than some other bodies.
Hope all works out well.
Tom
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It is also a silent replacement on the D3.
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I asked them to fix the stuck on/off button, replace the rubber grip which always fall off, and the aperture ring was cracked and have to be replaced. With shipment they charge me 5300 Nkr, which I think is a bit steep. So how anyone could get it replaced for free, puzzle me? But the upside is that I get my beloved Df back :)
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It is food for thought that my Df units have had the same issues, except - strangely enough - the peeling rubber grip(s). The stuck on/off button was fixed under warranty; can't remember the outcome of the cracked aperture follower issue but if I had to pay it was insignificant.
Nikon could do well not to launch, with lots of advertising drive, a camera that wasn't properly field tested. I feel the Df project was subject to wrong decisions by the overzealous bean-counters. There is nothing wrong, not at all, with the underlying concept, my reservations are for the implementation of it.
Rumours have it the 100th anniversary this year will be with a launch of a Df2. Cross fingers Nikon has learned some lessons since 2013 and improved their product.
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The G-lenses works fine, but the older lenses seem to be off by a mile :( I think it is time it goes back to Nikon for a full check up. Maybe they can change the rubber and fix all the other quirks it has.
Exactly the same thing which happened to my D810! Thus the famous (or infamous) diagnosis of "impact damage". Bjorn is correct about the ceramic thingy and methinks it is quite delicate. Does anyone know if Nikon is using this with all models now?
And perhaps another question - what was the last "pro" model to not use this? Seemed like my D700 was more robust.
And 100% with Bjorn on hoping Nikon has learned something and the DfII will be a better implemented product.
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Ceramics prints are all in (every model to the best of my knowledge) and waiting for a disaster to happen ....
I agree this is a known and thereby by definition, 'infamous', design bug. Whatever advantage the ceramic print might confer in accuracy etc. is lost by its susceptibility for breaking. Trust me, it didn't take much of an impact to crack the ceramics on my first Df. I am all amazement how fragile and delicate this construction is.
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Design these days are more scewed towards looks than function/solid build quality. The other factor is cost cutting (perceived? improved monetary rate of return).
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Nikon could do well not to launch, with lots of advertising drive, a camera that wasn't properly field tested. I feel the Df project was subject to wrong decisions by the overzealous bean-counters. There is nothing wrong, not at all, with the underlying concept, my reservations are for the implementation of it.
I feel that the advertizing drive was targeting mostly Hipsters and life style users who are ready to pay a high price for a mediocre product like SMEG Refrigerators, which they treat like a RAW egg later. Usage pattern: snap shots & showing off.
What then happened was that a lot of people with honest and earnest photographic ambition and professional usage patterns needing a field robust camera took up the piece.
This is not a FM-2 or OM-1 or Leica M3 that you can take up the Everest, through the desert sand storms and to the North Pole and it will work flawlessly with outer wear only.
This is basicly an overpriced D600 style camera with a second layer of GUI on top of it, an exceptional lens compatability and a very good HiISO sensor, the best Nikon had available at the time.
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Hope that the monocoque and the floating mirror box construction method of D750 and D500 solved or at least mitigate the "impact damage" problem.
I dropped my D750 with AF-S 50/1.8G attached on the tile floor from the stool that was 40-50cm high. The lens hood seemd to absorb much of the shock, and the camera was not damaged (scrutinized at Nikon service).
All the new Nikons after D5500 will employ the same method.
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Nikon Df 2 Titan could be interesting I guess ;D
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My Df haven't been on the top of Mount Everest, yet. I guess I have to wait until that becomes a "hipster thing" ;D But it has been dropped to the ground at least three times, the last time in a pretty decent bow into the tarmac, when my son grabbed his training gear from the car and the Df came with him. It has worked flawlessly in temperatures from -27 C to +37 C and been drenched more than a few times. So I am actually quite surprised it could hold up this long. After the last shower it had to dry out for two days before strap was dry.
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Nikon Df 2 Titan could be interesting I guess ;D
I'll buy it instantaneously ...
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I'll buy it instantaneously ...
Why!? :o :o :o
If I have the money, maybe I will. makes for a nice collector's piece ::)
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Why!? :o :o :o
If I have the money, maybe I will. makes for a nice collector's piece ::)
You should know how Bjørn "caresses" his cameras. ;D
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I just hope that they change some things. I do not go to the nearby bar where me and Goto Tetsuro goes. he goes on weekdays that's why. If I see him I will tell him a few easy ways to bring new life to the Df with a few simple things that can be done with firmware :o :o :o
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Unfortunately, the cracking ceramic PCB problem cannot be solved by the firmware update...
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If there is a new Df, it is probably being field testet as we speak. Hope it is pure in the sense that all necessary information is visible in the viewfinder and no screen or menus. Only wheels to adjust the settings. And only RAW. Thats my christmas wish 8)
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The use of ceramic with a printed conductive track has been in use for 30 years in vehicle fuel sender units ( the bit in the tank that signals the level of fuel) and they usually outlast the vehicle despite continuous movement .....so who or what is causing the crack.
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There is the small, but probably significant, difference of having a lens mount immediately adjacent to the ceramic plate...
Had the front plate on the Df been of titan, the incidence rate of cracked ceramic PCB would have dropped dramatically. My Nikon F2 Titan has endured beatings that would have demolished modern cameras.
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I believe that the issue is also related to the performance of the return spring. At least that is the case for the one on a D3 that I have seen.
Edit to add: I think your right Bjørn
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The return spring (of the aperture follower) is sensitive to accumulation of dust and grime underneath its collar. A good reason why cameras should have regular maintenance.
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The D3 I once owned suffered from the "wtf happens with the aperture follower"-syndrome. A little service job got it right back to working order.
As for a Df successor my list is: D5 sensor and AF, more or less same body, dial locks on or off (like the X-T2), maaaaybe the front command wheel and on/off switch changes, interchangeable focussing screens (not likely but one hopes), memory card access on the right side. That's pretty much it.
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The aperture mechanism of my D600 broke when I tried to attach my 1.4/35mm Ai-S at 90° wrong angle. Set me back 267€ IIRC...
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Nikon Df 2 Titan could be interesting I guess ;D
Thats what I have thought already would be an appropriate feature for an 100 years anniversary camera, and would be insteresting for me to add a Df2 to the Df I have already. Should not be a titanium hull only but an internal redesign taking vulnerable parts into account and eliminate weaknesses that cause overall reduced robustness..
A more ergonomic front wheel would be nice, and yes the D5 sensor plus AF would be a thing. No video hopefully and the body must not be bigger than the Df
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The aperture mechanism of my D600 broke when I tried to attach my 1.4/35mm Ai-S at 90° wrong angle. Set me back 267€ IIRC...
You probably exerted some force as well? Can be an expensive practice.
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Nikon Df 2 Titan could be interesting I guess ;D
What a grand idea!
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You probably exerted some force as well? Can be an expensive practice.
No. Just hit the right spot with a turn ....
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Couldn't be the right spot when it was the wrong one?
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for the D7000 and the D80, it was just a problem waiting to occur according to my friend. He pointed out something in the design and I didn't quite understand what he was saying but according to him, it is quite a regular occurrence on those cameras that come in to his shop. the dreaded EE and failure to recognise aperture is the symptom. Thinking about it, my friend's D800 might have gotten that,too. he dropped it :o :o :o
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If this damage occurs, the aperture is still activated by the body and you can still shoot with the camera, right?
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(Df): yes and no. For AFS/G lenses you can dial in aperture from camera side; light metering and everything else will function normally. Likewise, the same operation mode ought to work with any AI/AI'd/AIS lenses equipped with CPU. If no CPU or you want to use the aperture ring on the lens, no reliable light metering is provided and aperture control will be erratic (to say the least).
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Couldn't be the right spot when it was the wrong one?
Funny
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Update! After three weeks, nothing has happened with the repair of my Df. Their "support system" still says backorder >:( My patience is slowly deteriorating. If I had known this I would have bought a used one. Even on a geological scale they are slow..