NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Other => Topic started by: PedroS on October 26, 2016, 15:36:05
-
New kid in the block...
https://www.kirkphoto.com/g1-gimbal-head.html
Another interesting head in line with RRS one, but seems to address some minor issues on these type of heads, but still not a competitor for the full fluid head ones.
-
The Kirk unit has all these pieces, joints and locking knobs indicating there are many potential problem areas to influence overall stability. The original Wimberley seems rock solid in comparison?
-
Have the same impression. I was quite satisfied with the Wimberley II for a while and did not feel the need for going for another gimbal.
Just upgraded my Sachtler ENG2CF with an FSB8 head that will give me new options.
-
Indeed, and that's a trend...
The idea behind is to built them around aluminum billets on CNC, so likes the Jobu or Wimberley will be a waste of material, and being easier to pack. Nevertheless those pieces connects to each other by arca-swiss joints, so essentially without movement when tight. Also they can double as panoramics heads.
The Wimberley falls short in two aereas, that I really like they could address: the bearings and the locking mechanisms
The ones like this Kirk (have not yet one on hand), the RRS, and with another approach, but with the same resukts, the Mongoose, are much better towards locking systems and bearings. Namelly the RRS and the Kirk have needle and ball bearings to attain no wooble movements on their arms. The Kirk, brings an innovative tension/locking system, thought.
But again, there's no free lunch, and the Kirk and even more the RRS approaches the weight of a good fluid head, without its inherent benefits.
I discover another interesting gimbal, an Italian one, full carbon, the Zenelli: http://www.zenelli.it/it/tecnologia
Another great piece of machinery comes from ProMediagear, the Katana: http://www.promediagear.com/GK-Katana-Gimbal-Head_p_8.html
Look at this video about the difference between a fluid head and a gimbal featured by a well known Israel wildlife photographer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k-a1A6zs_0&t=727s
-
My experience with the Wimberley is short and just allow for general impressions. The ability to move the lens freely is great, the support for longer than "fast" exposures not so much. Or to be frank, not at all.
There is a German gimbal-type head the name of which escapes me at present (something starting with 'Nie...') looking much more sturdy because it had the lens secured within a square loop or bridle. Intuitively that arrangement looked much better in terms of reduced vibrations. Any one of our German members to the rescue here?
-
I remember that one... and Manfrotto has one looked like too...
Let me see if I can find it on my archives...
Manfrotto
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554099-REG/Manfrotto_393_393_Heavy_Duty_Gimbal.html
-
Keep It Simple
The classic Manfrotto is a very good basic design.
Thanks for the update on Gimbal heads Pedro ;)
-
Found...
http://www.dietmar-nill.de/node/95
There's also an Eki one
http://www.eki-gmbh.com/en/products/eki-pro-ms.html
http://www.eki-photos.com/p684415277/h51df4d24#h51df4d24
-
Thanks for the update on Gimbal heads Pedro ;)
Thanks Eric
-
And if you think one is not enough... be prepared, because two could be the answer!!
http://www.photoscala.de/2011/12/23/doppelkopf-teleschwenker-eki-pro-hd-heavy-duty/
Those were the crasy years...
-
Partial associative memory retrieval: 'Nill' + 'Dietmar' => Nie ...
This and the Eki look pretty similar in principle and build. Manfrotto probably is much cheaper also in workmanship?
I still prefer a robust fluid head, though, but then I work mainly with landscapes not action.
-
Me too Bjorn, but it took me a long way, I must say.
I have tried the majority of those gimbals, had several including the Manfrotto. Great concept but terrible workmanship and the bearing axles were so bad, that I don't have words to describe them...
Then I took a big step and a fluid head appeared, nothing less than a Sachtler, and never looked back. I now have two, the FSB8 and a Cartoni focus HD that I really like.
From all gimbals I had, just one is still here, the Mongoose 3.6...
-
That is exactly why it is so important to try out these items in real life situations.
Something may look like a nice design but as soon as you stat using it,,,
I have only a few Manfrotto items, only their very expensive light stands/booms - In the cheap segment it's plastic and tiny screws holding things together,,,
-
Partial associative memory retrieval: 'Nill' + 'Dietmar' => Nie ...
This and the Eki look pretty similar in principle and build. Manfrotto probably is much cheaper also in workmanship?
I still prefer a robust fluid head, though, but then I work mainly with landscapes not action.
The Nill head looks more stable as it is u shaped (like the Feisol), but at least its original version is no true gimbal as it does not allow height adjustments, which is the essence of gimbals to tune it in a way the lens/camera combo is keeping its position also when tilted
Bought my fluid head for more stability and trying whether I manage to be faster than with the Wimberley
Came in recently and still needs to be exoerienced
-
The Nill head looks more stable as it is u shaped (like the Feisol), but at least its original version is no true gimbal as it does not allow height adjustments, which is the essence of gimbals to tune it in a way the lens/camera combo is keeping its position also when tilted
Bought my fluid head for more stability and trying whether I manage to be faster than with the Wimberley
Came in recently and still needs to be exoerienced
You'll need some pratice in fact.
The very first, and still lots of them today, don't have the vertical adjustment you are taking about. But you nailed it, an essential one!
-
Thanks Pedro for enabling us to keep the overview in this growing gimbal zoo. IIRC correctly at the beginning there was Wimberley, Manfrotto and Nill and nearly nothing else.
I have seen the EKI, also the double version but I am still in doubt that this will give a unit that is really useful
-
Thanks :)
Another one that I have used for some time
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Custom-Brackets-CB-Gimbal-Tripod-Head-Review.aspx
Built quality in line with Custom Brackets, but some flaws in design, so went away quickly
-
And some ideas that I cannot find any solid rational behind them...
http://www.birdsafield.com/migration/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MH01-animated.gif
-
And some ideas that I cannot find any solid rational behind them...
http://www.birdsafield.com/migration/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MH01-animated.gif
Maximising instability??
-
Maximising instability??
If it was the goal, it's a winner !!
-
I cannot imagine a viable alternative usage, thus this design *must* be a winner !!
-
Here's one of my old setups.
Can you find the flaws on this setup?
Some are not really apparent...
-
More food for the thought...
Worn down bearings on a cheap gimbal head base
-
And some ideas that I cannot find any solid rational behind them...
http://www.birdsafield.com/migration/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MH01-animated.gif
ouch that hurts
a portrait tilt mechanism besides an L- Bracket
-
Has some one feedback on the RRS gimbal ? I have some equipment from them (but no gimbal). Very impressed about the overall quality.
http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Heads/Pano-Gimbal-Heads
-
Has some one feedback on the RRS gimbal ? I have some equipment from them (but no gimbal). Very impressed about the overall quality.
http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Heads/Pano-Gimbal-Heads
Yes RRS is high quality stuff.
I have used the fluid variant.
Refer to my view on it on the 1st page of this thread.
-
Here's one of my old setups.
Can you find the flaws on this setup?
Some are not really apparent...
Here we go:
- the tripod is too small for the rig
- The tripod leg spread, at the top, is not enough to maintain the necessary rigidity
- The tripod plate, especially on older models, is just supported by friction and thru a single screw and it could pop-out, when carried on shoulder, throwing all the gear to the ground... ouch
- The gimbal head is a CB which have wobble on the locking system and not stiff enough for the rig
- I have noted over the time that the flash, per se, is a font of vibrations, and even with an RRS flash bracket should not be used !! I use, now, an off-camera one. It took me a long time and experiments to realize where those vibrations come from...
- If a flash should be used, use elastic bands to refrain balancing, and do NOT let the wire connecters free (like in the photo)
- In this particular lens the foot is very good, but try to find a camera support as well when speeds went to the red range... <1/125s
-
Thanks, you are using the FH for video or also for photography? More: is a FH suitable for action shooting e.g. fast moving planes / cars ?
-
Thanks, you are using the FH for video or also for photography? More: is a FH suitable for action shooting e.g. fast moving planes / cars ?
Sorry I mixed threads.
Please refer to
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,1915.0.html
to see my review on the RRS fluid model
Yes, I use the FH for wildlife and sports. It just needs more attention to setup and a little of practice.
I don't do much video...
-
Maximising instability??
Excuse my ignorance as I don't own a gimbal but I always thought they were designed to aid in handling a lens that's too heavy to hand hold. I never thought photographers would try to use them for longish exposures in the danger zone but rather keep shutter speeds high while tracking moving subjects.
My longest lens is a 400/5.6 ED AI and I use it on a 2-way Sinar pan tilt head originally intended for an 8x10" view camera.
Dave Hartman
Jack be gimbal, jack be quick... or so I've thought. :)
-
Here we go:
- The tripod plate, especially on older models, is just supported by friction and thru a single screw and it could pop-out, when carried on shoulder, throwing all the gear to the ground... ouch
You seem to have used a NatureScapes plate....
-
Excuse my ignorance as I don't own a gimbal but I always thought they were designed to aid in handling a lens that's too heavy to hand hold. I never thought photographers would try to use them for longish exposures in the danger zone but rather keep shutter speeds high while tracking moving subjects.
Well if you decide for a tripod head combination you usually dont carry replacement heads with you. And if you made high speed shots and then it dawns and the light gets low you try to make the best out of it
My longest lens is a 400/5.6 ED AI and I use it on a 2-way Sinar pan tilt head originally intended for an 8x10" view camera.
Thats not a lens that ideally combines with a gimbal head (where the head is heavier than the lens)
-
You seem to have used a NatureScapes plate....
Correct Akira, well spotted :)
-
Excuse my ignorance as I don't own a gimbal but I always thought they were designed to aid in handling a lens that's too heavy to hand hold. I never thought photographers would try to use them for longish exposures in the danger zone but rather keep shutter speeds high while tracking moving subjects.
My longest lens is a 400/5.6 ED AI and I use it on a 2-way Sinar pan tilt head originally intended for an 8x10" view camera.
Dave Hartman
Jack be gimbal, jack be quick... or so I've thought. :)
Yes, the gimbal was developed to aid in holding the heavy lenses, either long or not.
All gimbals work fine, except the cheap ones when they start to have bearing issues, if speed is way up. But then we are facing a dilema, at least for nature photographers. The strong light hours, where speeds can be kept high, are not good in terms of IQ, as you know. Is during the raise and dusk that the changes to achieve a great photo comes alive. But, and not to bring too much noise, the ISO has to be kept within well controlled levels, not same insane ones, that to make thee photo, the speeds went into the red zone. By red zone I mean below the gold standard (speed >= FL). Good technique (NOT the traditional long lens one) should be trained and practice until you can reach success around 1/125s for a 600mm lens. This takes time, dedication and a fluid head. Even some would say that this can be attained on a gimbal head, I would reply, "ok, try the very same doing BIF..."
Now you ask, and why not using VR?? VR is really helpful but it's not a miracle maker. I do use it, and I recommend that you try by yourself and see what you have to change in your technique to master it. From my experience VR is good to use between 1/125s (again this speed..) and 1/500s. New VR modules do well below 1/125s until, let's say 1/60s. But even with VR 1/60s on a long lenses, on a gimbal... good luck! The very same is much easier to achieve with a good fluid head. Bear in mind that sometimes, somehow, sooner than later, you will go below 1/60s to do that shot... when I found myself on this situation I don't touch the lens much, always use a release shooter, and do some bursts. Ahah, the bursts. Wont they induce more trouble than solutions? In fact, if you are shooting landscape please don't do it, but if you are catching wildlife, even if more or less still, try it. You could be amazed...
-
Here's the Dietmar sold by Berlebach
https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=520&sprache=english
I like a lot Berlebach tripods, especially this one, even with it's two drawbacks, weight and height...
https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=248&sprache=english
-
Here another Berlebach fan ;D
When I still had a Nikkor 500/4P I used to own this Berlebach UNI 22 (shortened version) with a Benro Gimbal, no complaints on stability at all (but had a beach trolley to carry it around).
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/7/6156/6198345234_f7c94329fd_b.jpg)
Now with a 300/4 as maximum focal length the Berlebach Report is enough for me (462/75 with levelling base) with one of their 2-way heads (551, current model is the 553). Plenty of stability, also with a Nikon 1 camera.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7156/13925798134_98a36a8188_b.jpg)
For travelling I have a more compact carbon tripod.
-
still using monopod...suggest some best gimbal for weddings
-
still using monopod...suggest some best gimbal for weddings
What kind of use are you talking about, video? The previous posts in this thread discuss gimbals for long lens photography.
-
It probably looks very odd but . . .
I use a full Wimberley, mounted on top of a short monopod, when shooting wild life with a heavy D6 and a 400 or 500 mm lens from a small row-boat for an extended length of time.
I predominantly use very high shutter-speeds and high ISO to freeze subject movement so the monopod is simply releaving the weight of the equipment.
-
Congratulations on your new D6,,, ;D
-
That's what wishful thinking will do?!
;D
-
Yes ;D I know the feeling 8)
Please go find the new brochure on the D6 - It's amazing
-
I have been reading it . . . and the D6 is amazing.
:)
-
Hereunder my Really Right Stuff ballhead in “gimbal configuration”. May be somewhat less efficient than a gimbal, but it avoids having to take an additional heavy piece of equipment. And for Ann & Erik: with the extraordinary D6 attached ;D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50806511488_0443ca178d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kpADN1)
RSR Ballhead used as gimbal (https://flic.kr/p/2kpADN1)
Setup works up to 60 degrees without interfering with the tripod.
-
still using monopod...suggest some best gimbal for weddings
Wimberly makes a monopod gimbal. It mounts to an Arca Swiss clamp. Elsewhere in the "what the nerds do" section, I made a home-made version of this (neatened up a bit since that post) and it works quite well, though you do need a pretty sturdy head on the monopod. Mine has a ball head that's hard to tighten. A tilt-only head would likely be a little better.
The monopod gimbal is not centered over the column, but this doesn't seem to cause a problem once you're used to it, but the sideways mount isn't ideal for a camera body.