NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: BW on August 25, 2016, 10:42:55
-
Not that my present Df has reached the end of its cycle, but I was wondering what other users might think about the possibility of an upgraded version of the little gem? To me it has served well as a camera that is always by my side without getting in my way. Are we seeing a Df 2.0 during the coming year?
-
D5 sensor first thing comes to mind, better quality build, i may hope.
-
Difficult to tell an upgraded version will come. Nikon's 100th anniversary in 2017 is mentioned as a possibility. Perhaps mirrorless?
-
I want:
1: no rear LCD (fine-tune done in tethered computer)
2: meter on the top instead of the useless remaining shots/exposure info
3: no screw-drive AF
4: D750 class AF module
5: old-size F mount (like the one on the F3 and earlier)
6: as usual, fold-able aperture coupling tab
7: STOP-DOWN METERING
8: smaller or thinner
9: all-brass chassis
10: true mirror lock-up
basically an F3 interface :o :o :o
not sure if this if this is how Nikon's marketing feels as well ::)
Nikon should actually slap their marketing division for a lack of vision and touch with the consumers.
-
The size and build quality of the current Df is in my opinion pretty decent. Why mine haven't broken down yet, is a mystery? It has never seen a rain cover and has spent countless hours of rain, sleet, snow, moisture and fluctuating temperatures. I never intend to treat a camera as a baby and the Df has not given me a reason to do so, yet. The front wheel has to change though. I have glued some Lego to it so could build a nob that my index finger can operate. I have lost the camera on the ground twice, but it haven't affected the the output of the camera.
-
The size and build quality of the current Df is in my opinion pretty decent. Why mine haven't broken down yet, is a mystery? It has never seen a rain cover and has spent countless hours of rain, sleet, snow, moisture and fluctuating temperatures. I never intend to treat a camera as a baby and the Df has not given me a reason to do so, yet. The front wheel has to change though. I have glued some Lego to it so could build a nob that my index finger can operate. I have lost the camera on the ground twice, but it haven't affected the the output of the camera.
My eyepiece gets full of water when it rains, wearing it with the lens pointing down.
-
I want:
1: no rear LCD (fine-tune done in tethered computer)
2: meter on the top instead of the useless remaining shots/exposure info
3: no screw-drive AF
4: D750 class AF module
5: old-size F mount (like the one on the F3 and earlier)
6: as usual, fold-able aperture coupling tab
7: STOP-DOWN METERING
8: smaller or thinner
9: all-brass chassis
10: true mirror lock-up
You forgot the a decent manual focus screen. I dont agree with nr 8 and 9, but who's aiming for consensus ;)
-
My eyepiece gets full of water when it rains, wearing it with the lens pointing down.
I have used the magnifying eyepiece which protrudes from the camera. In combination with the DK-19 rubber it has been ok.
-
4: D750 class AF module
If you want decent AF take the D5/D500 module
-
Difficult to tell an upgraded version will come. Nikon's 100th anniversary in 2017 is mentioned as a possibility. Perhaps mirrorless?
If it is anniversary edition, the price might get ugly. If it mirrorless I dont want to be the test pilot. Then, it may take years (read: several versions) until we see a viable product.
-
....I do not want a anniversary edition with candle light holders....
@ richardHaw: if you say: no motor for AF lenses it is pointing towards total MF use
then saying a better AF module? I do not get what is your point, except saving some 10gr.
on my DF very often are 3 AF(D) lenses used:
1.4/ 85mm, 2.0/ 105mm and 2.8/ 180mm
why should a new Df exclude these good lenses?
easy changeable screen in the viewfinder would be nice
...and for the whole range: reduction of types of accus
-
My wish list:
1 - First and foremost I hope they will keep the ability to mount pre-AI lenses;
2 - A D5 sensor would obviously be very nice :-)
3 - A split-screen for focusing;
4 - Improved ergonomics, like a better solution for the front wheel;
For the rest, the Df is basically what I expect from a digital camera, so I'll be conservative and ask for a minimum of changes.
-
I want:
1: no rear LCD (fine-tune done in tethered computer)
2: meter on the top instead of the useless remaining shots/exposure info
3: no screw-drive AF
4: D750 class AF module
5: old-size F mount (like the one on the F3 and earlier)
6: as usual, fold-able aperture coupling tab
7: STOP-DOWN METERING
8: smaller or thinner
9: all-brass chassis
10: true mirror lock-up
basically an F3 interface :o :o :o
not sure if this if this is how Nikon's marketing feels as well ::)
Nikon should actually slap their marketing division for a lack of vision and touch with the consumers.
Why in the world would you want to remove the screw-drive AF? There are still plenty of wonderful AF-D lenses out there that benefit from this feature.
-
Also, are there any numbers of sales, revenue & profit margin for the Df? If it didn't make a profit, I wouldn't hold my breath for a version 2.0
-
For me:-
1. The sensor, AF, and flash systems of the new D5 - much like the D700 had the equivalent smarts from the D3 - now justifiable given the large % price increase of the D5 over the D4S
2. The build and ruggedness of the D700, and its frame rate or better; not fussed if the weight goes up a little, so long as it is "good weight".
3. Improved focussing screens to support MF lenses, which are designed for ease of installation - like the old FM2 and FE2 were designed.
4. Continued support for pre-AI lenses, including stop down metering
5. Shift the memory card door to the hand grip - away from the bottom
6. Dual QD cards
7. Use the same battery as for the D810 - this implies a larger hand grip - which I would welcome.
8. Replace the wretched front control knob with a standard control wheel integrated into the hand grip.
9. Include a voice recorder to support in-field documentation and audio note taking
10. Articulate the rear LCD - similar to the Olympus OMD E-M1, and also make it touch sensitive.
11. Keep the rest
I quite like the look of the current Df and most of its controls but I don't believe for one moment that it has to look exactly like a FM2 or FM-3A or any other film camera. For goodness sake it is a digital SLR that should be the best blend of traditional and electronic controls with a UI for stills use - but in designing a Df Mk II Nikon doesn't have to be a total design slave to the past either.
-
As a now outsider looking in, Hugh's list seems to me to be the most sensible!
I say that because what he says is that it would almost be a Fuji X-T2, with a Nikon lens mount!
Please don't all jump on me, this is just my view. But no doubt I will get a whole load of earache!
At one time I was really tempted by the Df, but went a different route. It's not a sin to go mirrorless, is it
I'm going to find my cotton wool. ;D
-
- Simpler manual dials like the Fuji's
- All metal weather sealed body with a proper grip
- D5 sensor
- Proper AF module
- 10 pin connector
- Flip up LCD for frog view / over the crowd shots
-
Mike: 'Going mirrorless' is neither a sin nor a panacea.
-
- Sensor and AF from D750
- Front wheel rubberised
- Improve the dials on top (Look to the X-T2)
- Keep the tab and screw in the mount (if one thing has to go, keep the tab)
- Rear screen from the D500
- Most importantly; hybrid viewfinder. JUST DO IT!
-
"D500 AF & D750 Sensor & Exspeed 5 & mouniting next to all lenses even pre AI"
sonds very good to me!
-
Bjorn, I never said mirrorless was a panacea, but I reckon Nikon will bring out a mirrorless model at sometime, why not start with a Df2?
Probably they won't, but I think it will be a missed opportunity, Nikon surely have the capability,
Sten, is right it has to be capable of using all of the legacy glass, otherwise far to many enthusiasts will be upset and grizzle in their beer!
Bjorn I've seen the boot of your car and some of your shelves so you have a very big vested interest!
Censor design moves at fair old lick these days, I wonder just how long it will be!
PS. If we had a real crystal ball now that would be something else!
-
- Sensor and AF from D750
- Front wheel rubberised
- Improve the dials on top (Look to the X-T2)
- Keep the tab and screw in the mount (if one thing has to go, keep the tab)
- Rear screen from the D500
- Most importantly; hybrid viewfinder. JUST DO IT!
More or less this.
I'm not looking for the D5 sensor as I often use it at base ISO and that's not the forte of the D5 sensor
-
While the D5 sensor is likely, I'd rather a Df2 with higher DR than with more speed. Hybrid viewfinder could be fantastic, or it could be an abortion. I would assume Nikon goes through many iterations before a design feature is implemented in a market model, but things like the D750's wifi dash that. Hopefully with such a major, and contentious, change they will exercise much more attention in it's design and implementation.
-
While the D5 sensor is likely, I'd rather a Df2 with higher DR than with more speed.
I'm sure the D5 sensor could be tuned for higher DR at lower ISO settings if a slower read-out speed is used. In a similar way the designers at Nikon managed to get better performance out of the D4 sensor in the Df by accepting a slower frame-rate.
3: no screw-drive AF
I was actually a bit surprised the Df supported screw-drive AF, as I felt the camera was geared towards manual focusing. Removing the AF motor would allow the camera body to be smaller and lighter (which is not always a good thing). Of course AF-S would still be supported. But it seems the Df was designed for maximum compatibility with ALL lenses - pre-AI, AI, AF, AF-S, D, G, E etc etc, which appears to have been a good decision.
4: D750 class AF module
At very least!
7: STOP-DOWN METERING
Better support for pre-AI lenses would be useful, the current metering seems a bit clumsy. Either stop-down metering in some form, or add a prong to engage the "rabbit-ears" on pre-AI lenses.
1: no rear LCD (fine-tune done in tethered computer)
8: smaller or thinner
Removing the rear LCD would allow the camera to be thinner - consider the thickness of the D5500 or D750 body with the LCD flipped out the way...
I don't think this is likely though, being able to review pictures on the spot is just too useful!
What about a removable LCD? You can either plug it in and use it like the D750, or take it off completely...?
Probably a better grip and more sensible placement of the card door would be useful improvements.
-
Great! It seems like there is a general consensus that a new Df 2.0 will arrive during next summer. A moderate MP sensor combined with great low light ability, tweaked for high DR and great color OOC. Same form factor as the old Df, manual control, support for all f-mount lenses, touch screen with a bright and huge viewfinder adapted to MF. Who need a crystal ball ;)
-
If you add a hybrid EVF/OVF finder, reviewing images or viewing menus can be done in the viewfinder, without reading glasses for viewing an LCD. An EVF as part of a hybrid finder would vastly facilitate precise MF for some of us. A mirror up EVF mode would probably be the easiest way of supporting closed aperture metering with non-AI lenses.
Add IBIS, it works well with adapted lenses on Sony, so the image circle should pose no problem.
For AF I would add the new D5/D500 "joystick" to select the AF point. Wish Sony had this feature.
You, should probably also wish for a metal alloy body, with a metal mirror box, so the lens mount wouldn't be attached to just plastic fantastic polycarbonate materials.
Make the external user interface much more similar to an FM2, i.e. radically cut down on buttons, like Leica M style concentration on the essentials (sic).
-
If you add a hybrid EVF/OVF finder, reviewing images or viewing menus can be done in the viewfinder, without reading glasses for viewing an LCD. An EVF as part of a hybrid finder would vastly facilitate precise MF for some of us. A mirror up EVF mode would probably be the easiest way of supporting closed aperture metering with non-AI lenses.
No. Where yould you put the EVF-screen if the mirror is up?
Add IBIS, it works well with adapted lenses on Sony, so the image circle should pose no problem.
OK
Make the external user interface much more similar to an FM2, i.e. radically cut down on buttons, like Leica M style concentration on the essentials (sic).
YES, yes & yes!!! Simplicity like in the Fuji interface: Time, Aperture, ISO, distance, compensation
-
Put the EVF where today's occular is and add the appropriate lenses on either side to accomodate proper combo viewing. An added benefit is that the eyepiece would proteude a litte more rearwards which would make for a more comfortable use when lookin'.
-
Put the EVF where today's occular is and add the appropriate lenses on either side to accomodate proper combo viewing. An added benefit is that the eyepiece would proteude a litte more rearwards which would make for a more comfortable use when lookin'.
why not leave out the mirror?
-
A quality optical viewfinder without a mirror is quite "difficult" to implement, apparently ...