NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: chris dees on May 21, 2016, 15:25:05
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Was out hiking today to do some birdphotography.
I had my D810 + TC + 300PF at one side and my D500 + Tamron 150-600 at the other side on a Black Rapid Double Strap.
Suddenly a big bang and my D810 lay on the concrete path.
It seems the foot came of from the RRS tripod ring.
Not only the mount broke, but it seems to me there's something with the prisma as well. :(
The hood came of from the lens and there's a scratch on the glass as well.
I hope my insurance will cover this.
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Join the club !!
(http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=676.0;attach=962;image)
Must be another example of the VR issue with the 300 PF?.... :D :(
Your D810 is a total write-off. Hope the lens survived.
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That doesn't look too good either.
I'll bring it to a service point first before Im going to try out something.
Perhaps they can repair everything at once; camera and lens and VR issue. :)
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I hope my insurance will cover this.
Ouch !
I really hope too, Chris !
Serious damage, though. :-\
Fortunetly you have spare gear.
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Bad luck indeed. So sorry.
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Bummer Chris, I wonder how the prism was damaged? I had the D610 mount get pulled out when the 70-200 f4vr hit the door of my jeep. I even put it back together with super glue and the AFS lenses worked but not my D lenses so I sent it to Nikon. The mount cost almost nothing but that was the only damage. Better than my D300s which came down with the Tripod and 500vr/wtc 1.4. The TC was a write off and the 500vr needed a new mount but the D300s body bent at the mount >:(. New body frame at about Rs30K. Something to be said for the plastic mounts.
I hope your insurance does cover it.
All the best,
Tom
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Ouh, bad luck with a bad result indeed.
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Holy cow. That looks bad. Time for a second D500 and new
Camera holders? RRS stuff breaks. Even that. Poor Chris!
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Please lets see what came apart, I sounds like the RRS Foot slipped of the RRS lens collar, nothing broke as far as I read.
Just not tightened hard enough and the little 'lock' leaver and the RRS lens collar got a small push form something and let go,,, User error I'm afraid,,, be careful how you state it for the insurance
Sorry about that Chris - I'm afraid the D810 is a write off, They will have to change the whole body frame and mirrorbox and that's more work and parts than a new camera,,,
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Luckily it wasn't the D500 which is much harder to replace ;D
Curious what caused the drop, can you show the failing component?
Hope the insurance gets things sorted quickly.
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It seems the foot came of from the RRS tripod ring.
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Must be these two parts that came undone:
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Yes Erik and the more I think about the more I think it's a user error; not tied enough and fiddling with the knob while walking. :(
I'll bring it Wednesday to NSP and let them estimate the costs. Bets are open. :D
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oh Chris!! So sorry this happened. I hope the repair goes smoothly and that insurance can help with it.
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The placement of that little knob is a typical case of a design flaw. The lens hoods for the first 24-70 2.8 AFS and 70-200mm 2.8 AFS had a similar release knobs - Sticking out - Now Nikon has changed the lock on the 24-70mm 2.8 VR so you have to put your finger into a hole to press it,,,
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I'm sorry for you Chris 😔 For my understanding, I guess that the D810 assembly was fixed on a mono/tripod, the latter being handheld ?
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I'm sorry for you Chris 😔 For my understanding, I guess that the D810 assembly was fixed on a mono/tripod, the latter being handheld ?
No, everything handheld. No mono/tripod
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Thats to bad! I never trust unoriginal straps unless they have a security line attached to original strap. I have had incidents where the tripod foot of the Nikon 70-200 have loosened. The Joby strap has a security line that has saved my skin a couple of times. Hope it work out for you.
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So, holding the assembly at the LCF-10 foot then ....
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What a shame, Chris. I had a similar, much less serious experience. I happens in an instant, then it takes a little while to fully comprehend the outcome. Fingers crossed.
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Which means that the spring loaded release latch has been unlocked also. The reason for my questions is that I have also RRS gear with a lot of expensive Nikon glass attached to it 😳
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Which means that the spring loaded release latch has been unlocked also. The reason for my questions is that I have also RRS gear with a lot of expensive Nikon glass attached to it 😳
As I said, I'm afraid it's a user error. I think the screw was/went loose and I was fiddling with latch during walking (I often hold the lenses at their foot while walking).
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Well the similar situation has been seen before, the surface treatment of the RRS is slippery, that's why they introduced the small stop screws for their lens and camera plates - Customers just dropped their gear since the plates slit out of the clamps, especially the leaver clamps,,, the screw knob clamps are the old school solution.
I never trust these for transport/walking.
I don't see the need for these harnesses where you have only attached the lens in one single screw in the base of the camera, the eyelets should never be able to come undone by design,,, the 300mm PF is so light that it can easily be on the camera like that.
Sure large lenses should have their own lens straps. Directly mounted on the lens eyelets.
I also always use metal strap locks.
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It's may be the time to share our good practices? I'm always using a strap (Peak Design) linking the (tele)lens and the body together; especially when I carry the whole setup by the (mono)pod...
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My 200-400VR with camera was slipping out of the RRS monopod head with lever clamp which was slung over my shoulder during the SA safari, luckily I had the little security screws in place or else the trip would have ended shortly.
Since that event its back to the trusted screw clamps, very hard to make them loose traction on the plates.
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It's may be the time to share our good practices? I'm always using a strap (Peak Design) linking the (tele)lens and the body together; especially when I carry the whole setup by the (mono)pod...
And if the lens foot slips out of the clamp,,, ?
I would hold on to the lens or camera and the monopod, not only the monopod.
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Herewith, my "heavy" body-lens setup: D5; 300mm f/2.8 VRII combined with an RRS footplate (see the two retaining bolts - avoiding a slip through) and a Peak Design strap with their outstanding Anchor Link system:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/26892187860_097d78392c_k.jpg)
So far this combination has provided me with a satisfying anti-crash security.
And here in operation during a kite-surf session in Fuerteventura (Canary Islands):
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1572/25448336533_4c1ffe11d4_b.jpg)
I only use the lever-release slide clamps from RRS; I find the knob-clamps too risky.
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Sharing some best practices might be a good idea.
I for one do not want to take any risks when I'm out in the woods. Occasionally I have to climb or traverse difficult terrain to reach the spot where I want to be and at those times I do not want to think about my camera.
With that in mind I went for the best solution I could think of. I bought a $10 chinese Black Rapid camera strap ripoff.
On arrival I set it to the correct length and sewed shut all the seams. The strap is no longer adjustable in any sense. The nylon strap is strong and durable enough as long as it does not fray. I also removed all metal parts included with the strap and chucked them in the bin. No way I will ever trust these frail nickel or tin plated pewter cast parts.
I then bought two of these:
(https://dirkjensenphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/20110525-165442.jpg)
One goes in the camera tripod mount, the other in the lens tripod mount.
I then went to the local DIY store and bought two of these:
(http://helmi-sport.eshop.t-online.de/WebRoot/Store2/Shops/Shop40733/4CA9/DFFF/B872/98F2/3BCD/AC14/504A/6C7E/Karabiner-60mm-1_ml.jpg)
They are chrome vanadium steel carabiner hooks which are rated at 150 kg (300 lbs) each. I checked their function in store and made sure the spring is snappy and the articulation precise and without play to the sides so the hooks don't come undone while I'm climbing over something.
All of this is less then sophisticated and looks rather crude but it is fully functional and pretty much bomb-proof
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What a pain! Hope the insurance will cover the loss.
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That carabiner is a disaster waiting to happen, any climber will know. I hope you reconsider,,,,
Also attaching on end of the strap to lens the other to the camera puts all the stress on the camera mount, not nice for a heavy set up,,,
Sorry but both are not what I would recommend.
Btw a monopod on feet,,,, :o
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Also attaching on end of the strap to lens the other to the camera puts all the stress on the camera mount, not nice for a heavy set up,,,
I would agree on the stress part... Still, I'm so sorry for you and that accident ! Whatever the reasons, it's always a great sadness to see the guts of our hardwares on the field...
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Not my accident, I have newer dopped a camera. Chris is the unlucky guy.
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That carabiner is a disaster waiting to happen, any climber will know. I hope you reconsider,,,,
Also attaching on end of the strap to lens the other to the camera puts all the stress on the camera mount, not nice for a heavy set up,,,
Sorry but both are not what I would recommend.
Btw a monopod on feet,,,, :o
What does a good carabiner look like, or what is the alternative?
Btw. why is the one pictured a disaster in the making?
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There is risk that the strap goes around the carabiner and opens the arm.
Carabiners for climbing are designed either to avoid this or provided with a screw or twist lock.
The single screw attaching to the bottom can come loose quite easily also, not something I would like to trust,,,
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Ok, thanks!
"Climbing" and "carabiner" turns out many results on google!
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This link shows how it happens on a bolt, similar to the setup with one screw in the bottom of the camera:
https://books.google.dk/books?id=rpQTCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT278&lpg=PT278&dq=how+a+carabine+gets+clipped+accidentally&source=bl&ots=ahdA2nJdqb&sig=zWu-SpFEWNVBZl3n1CTpAd4uAKo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7jq3c_-3MAhVCCpoKHT3gBeAQ6AEIKzAC#v=onepage&q=how%20a%20carabine%20gets%20clipped%20accidentally&f=false
Similar can happen with a rope/sling/strap clinging around the lock.
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According to the NSP the damage is about €1000,00 and my insurance will cover it (pfff).
Only my own-risk of €45,00
I'm curious how the D810 will come out of this.
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That sounds great Chris!
There is just something odd, from your image one can clearly see that the mount-screw-holes in the D810 body shell itself has been completely broken apart and it appears black and looks like plastic - But a D810 is supposedly a metal casting body shell design - Only explanation I can think of is if there is like a brittle plastic 'break-away' ring between the mount and the metal body,,,, Newer see this before.
No they must replace the hole front to do that repair,,,,
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That sounds great Chris!
There is just something odd, from your image one can clearly see that the mount-screw-holes in the D810 body shell itself has been completely broken apart and it appears black and looks like plastic - But a D810 is supposedly a metal casting body shell design - Only explanation I can think of is if there is like a brittle plastic 'break-away' ring between the mount and the metal body,,,, Newer see this before.
No they must replace the hole front to do that repair,,,,
Yes, according to their note they'll replace the front body.
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Thanks for clearing that up Chris, just odd the broken surface of your image appears black,,, never mind ;)
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Thanks for clearing that up Chris, just odd the broken surface of your image appears black,,, never mind ;)
Yes it is and it feels as plastic too. :)
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Hmmmm strange - It should be 'cold' to the touch,,,
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The shot I just uploaded is a D800 I found online where it's stated as if the D8xx is same build.
But to me it looks like the D810 is a plastic mount camera,,, the more I look at the images of your broken one Chris,,,
I can now see it's the self tapping screw-types used to mount the bayonet and the little contacts to make electrical contact between camera mount itself and electronics inside the camera,,, Just opened my own - I can't believe my eyes,,,,
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Same story with the Df, by the way. Bean counters at work to slash costs in production, presumably.
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Yes but it is quite visible in the images from Nikon that the mirror box and mount area is plastic on the DF, but in Nikon material on the D810 it looks like its magnesium and it is stated:
The Nikon D810 is surprisingly lightweight, yet highly rugged and durable. A body made of magnesium alloy and a stringently tested weather and dust sealing helps to protect your investment against the elements when shooting on location. It’s tough in construction, yet subtle in nuance. In every way, the D810 is designed to surprise — and delight.
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Perhaps you have to open up your D810 to be sure. ;D
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Here is a thread from dpreview with another damaged D810.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55639396
It seems there is some "plastic" in the construction, and that the D810 may have changed from the D800.
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I did open it - The D810 is a plastic camera,,, Very disappointed!
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Wow!
Very surprised...
I thought it was essentially the same as the D800 - at least physically - with improvements in the sensor etc.
I guess this is one place where we can see Nikon has been cutting corners to reduce their manufacturing costs to keep their business afloat.
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Indeed!
And It has an impact on how to handle the camera especially with larger/heavier lenses.
Don't put any stress on this mount!
The difference is huge IMHO, you can see it clearly in the linked images on DPR that Bjørnthun posted.
On the D800 the magnesium body shell goes all the way under the mount and stabilises and stiffen that area completely and most of all, the screws that hold the mount has something to bite into a solid metal casting, on the D810 the four screws barely stays put in the plastic, when I unscrewed them they where as loose as expected from self tapping screws seated into plastic, no wonder the camera is so cheap,,,
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Indeed!
And It has an impact on how to handle the camera especially with larger/heavier lenses.
Don't put any stress on this mount!
The difference is huge IMHO, you can see it clearly in the linked images on DPR that Bjørnthun posted.
On the D800 the magnesium body shell goes all the way under the mount and stabilises and stiffen that area completely and most of all, the screws that hold the mount has something to bite into a solid metal casting, on the D810 the four screws barely stays put in the plastic, when I unscrewed them they where as loose as expected from self tapping screws seated into plastic, no wonder the camera is so cheap,,,
... the D800 magnesium chassis has very weak points on the bottom plate mounting structure, making it necessary to be careful when handling the camera when mounted on a tripod, ie: moving the camera/tripod. Leverage applied to the camera base may break the chassis.
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I had the D610 mount get pulled out when the 70-200 f4vr hit the door of my jeep... so I sent it to Nikon. The mount cost almost nothing but that was the only damage. ... Something to be said for the plastic mounts.
I hope your insurance does cover it.
All the best,
Tom
I learned two very interesting things in this thread:
- some heavy pro lenses have a breaking point near the bayonet -- and that this can be repaired (sometimes)
- a plastic mount on a retro design camera !! and on D810 -- and that this can be repaired (sometimes)
of course something will give in on mechanical overload. The question is how this should bode with precision equipment.
Metal tends to get a plastic deformation, or break. Plastic tends to go from the elastic regime straight into breaking.
So if its a designed breaking point with easy repair, it could be acceptable, provided it does not break in normal use! And normal use can involve some banging into obstacles in street, event or nature photography.
The D800 is metal, but Thom Hogan has observed that it is not as forgiving in abuse as the D700.
I accidentally dropped my D800 with a 135mm DC about 10cm onto concrete. I only found a minor new scratch on the lens hood and no evidence of the mishap on the camera.So I forgot about it soon. Focus was as before. The often very large, even off scale, AF fine tune values needed on my D800 finally got it to Nikon service for alignment. They diagnosed minor impact damage on the mount as part of the issue. They obligingly replaced the mount for free. Thanks!
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.... I get my supply of spare F-mounts from the local Nikon repair techs, who obligingly put the sheared-off rear part of the 24-70 into a collecting box for me. Must have got at least 10 such items over a couple of years. These lenses are designed to break in a specific manner once the mechanical stress gets too high and would inflict heavy damage to lens or camera, or both, unless something yields under the load.
The sheared parts of the 24-70 include the rear element, which conveniently doubles as a loupe on my work table, the F-mount itself, and the contact block with the torn signal cable.
From experience I can tell these lenses do not break under "normal" use thus no need to fear your own lens being split into two parts.
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.... I get my supply of spare F-mounts from the local Nikon repair techs, ...
sounds like you are joking! You are talking about lens mounts, not camera body plastic-backed mounts ? I seemed to understand that your broken Df was gone for good, unlike my understanding of the quote on a D610 in my previous post.
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No joke. I'm dead serious about this. Just pulled out a few 24-70 mounts from the nearest bin. They are shown in various stages of disassembly below. The one to the left has the rear lens shroud still attached, whilst the others have had that removed. All are emptied of their contact blocks as these items have been recycled (by me) long ago. I left a little dust on the lens surface so the viewer can appreciate its existence.
(by the way, this is a jpg straight off my D500, shot at ISO 25600 and only resized....)
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I use primes only but change them quite often. I have worn down a lot of F mounts both camera side
and lens side and NPS replaces them
not for free but for a little contribution. There are several...
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These mounts weren't worn out Frank, they were sheared off their host lens.
By the way, ever since the longer lenses got steel inserts around the groove for the locking pin, they wear much less.
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Will you do some writing on the D500?
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Will you do some writing on the D500?
Maybe. Not decided yet.
So far, only tested the efficiency of the built-in UV-blocking filter, which is excellent (at least 12 stops).
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I left a little dust on the lens surface so the viewer can appreciate its existence.
Snap!
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I just read a reply to a thread I started on Flicker's D800/D800E/D810 User's Group. A camera bag drops two feet (0.6m). The AF-S 24-70/2G ED won't focus the next time the camera is used. It work fine on the owner's D800 but not on his D810. A $700.00 (USD) repair for a cracked mirror box.
The owner will no longer store his D810 with a lens on it. I'm thinking I'll store my dSLR(s) only with short lenses, e.g. AF-S 50/1.8 G. Dose this seem too cautious? I don't own a camera with a plastic mirror box. I have frequently stored my D800 with an AF-S 105/2.8G ED VR Micro on it.
Dave
I think of the D810 and D500 as professional cameras and the plastic mirror box and its short screws as an engineering defect. Unfortunately I feel Nikon needs a lot of bad press for these failures.
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Recently my D750 fitted with 50/1.8G dropped 50cm from the bench onto the wooden floor. The camera worked flawlessly even after that. Next day the camera/lens combo was checked at the Nikon service and turned out to be of no problem.
The lens was attached with the dedicated plastic hood which was loosened when it was dropped. I think that the hood absorbed the most of the shock, and the monocoque construction with the kind of "floating" mirror box helped. D750 body feels very solid.
Personally I never trust or use the strap attatched to the camera with any intermediate parts (screw, clamp, socket or whatever), no matter how convenient they are. I use the eyelets fixed to the camera exclusively. I never use the camera straps with detachable hook either.
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I'm thinking I'll store my dSLR(s) only with short lenses, e.g. AF-S 50/1.8 G. Dose this seem too cautious? I don't own a camera with a plastic mirror box. I have frequently stored my D800 with an AF-S 105/2.8G ED VR Micro on it.
There's 'storage' meaning: at home and not being used, in which case I don't think it matters. Unless you live in an earthquake zone like me, maybe.
Storage while being carried, transported, or shipped is where the caution is needed.
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Maybe I meant the to use "stow." I can't remember. Sometimes this phone gets too helpful and changes a word for me. Any way "stow" as in a camera back pack or bag.
I live on The Ring Of Fire maybe twenty miles (thirty kilometers) from the San Andreas Fault.
Dave
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OK, that makes sense...sorry for the misperception on my end.
I keep a "normal sized" lens on the D800's (so the cameras are ready to shoot), and the cameras sit face down in Lowe Pro Toploader AW padded cases, with those residing in a metal file cabinet drawer. The padding will cushion the severe vibration possible in an earthquake (like the jagged, rough ride we had in the 1994 Northridge quake), and the metal cabinet will survive a partial collapse of the building.
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Been following this a bit...I think it was mentioned somewhere else on the site but can't seem to locate, which Nikon bodies are all metal at the mount?
My D700 definitely seemed to be better built than the D800 & 810 which followed. I guess I should have stuck it away in a closet instead of moving it on.
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Coming from the D3, I have the same feeling about the D800/E. That's why I want...but cannot have, of course...a D800 sensor in a D3 body.
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John, I kept my D700 and there is little doubt in my mind that it is a much tougher build than either the D810 and Df.
Given the price in my country of the new D5, I think that there is still a place for a built tough successor to the D700.
Not that the D700 is perfect - its battery and its memory card doors are far far too flimsy IMHO. I always liked the card door on the old D200 - a much nicer design; alas it also has the same battery door to that on the D700 and the D810 - same part numbers even. Aargh!
Been following this a bit...I think it was mentioned somewhere else on the site but can't seem to locate, which Nikon bodies are all metal at the mount?
My D700 definitely seemed to be better built than the D800 & 810 which followed. I guess I should have stuck it away in a closet instead of moving it on.
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Not that the D700 is perfect - its battery and its memory card doors are far far too flimsy IMHO. I always liked the card door on the old D200 - a much nicer design; alas it also has the same battery door to that on the D700 and the D810 - same part numbers even. Aargh!
The D800 memory card seems fine to me. One night while changing batteries my D800's battery door came off, damn! It popped back on fine as it wasn't broken. The SD card slot has never been quite right. The SD card doesn't pop out as far as it should.
I think Nikon may feel too much pressure to hold down the weight on cameras. A few more grams here and there would make a stronger camera.
Buying a D810 or D500 I might go for a drops and spills warranty given the plastic mirror box
Dave
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Coming from the D3, I have the same feeling about the D800/E. That's why I want...but cannot have, of course...a D800 sensor in a D3 body.
Exactly my thoughts!
My D3 holds its own meanwhile my D800 have had problems connecting with some lenses even after I clean both cameras and lens contacts (never a problem when switched to D3) and now the SD card slot spring stopped working. The D3 experienced lot of more work out compare to my D800 which is also several years younger.
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Some of you may remember I had a problem with my D810 not reading the contacts for manual focus lenses. This was several months after it had been in for a new shutter and CLA.
Nikon received my D810 for repair on Sept. 30. I didn't hear back from them. Returning home after the hurricane evacuation had ended I got curious what had happened to my camera. I went to the repair site and discovered that Nikon was waiting for me to approve a $280 repair "for impact damage". What a joke. If anyone dropped that camera it was Nikon. I suppose it is one of those "he said, she said" things. But I gotta pay the piper...
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It'd be interesting for Nikon service to detail for you just exactly where the supposed 'impact' occurred and what parts were affected and how, but hoping for that level of communication openness from Nikon USA is a thin wish. Even when I go in person to the L.A. facility, the technicians are kept behind several closed doors.
The only issues I had with warranty repairs at Nikon were handled without argument by the L.A. facility. The problems were well-known, well-publicized focus and 10-pin socket issues with the D800. I once had a lens service on the 17-35/2.8 that went bad 6 or 7 months after their repair, and they corrected that quickly and without charge.
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Impact damage is not easy to find the exact root cause for, you just see that something is violently broken,,, :o :o :o
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Received my D810 back from Nikon Service today. Invoice reads: replaced mount, replaced meter electrical circ & replaced eyepiece. Whatever.
But! Everything works as it should and I'm a bit pissed it took so long, but happy to have my camera back.
It will remain my chief camera but I have purchased an Arca-Swiss RM3di to play with. The Leica S is up for sale.
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Thanks for the update! Hope it performs to your satisfaction!
Arca-Swiss RM3di looks like quite a challenge, have fun! Looking forward to seeing images from that.
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Received D810 from Nikon Service. Invoice read: replaced bayonet mount, replaced focus module and eyepiece (!). The eyepiece is the stock one I screwed in to send to Nikon. I use the DK-17M.
Today I went out and shot five long exposures. Only one reached critical focus. Not sure if it is the lens or I need to do some fine tuning. For what it's worth I've attached it. 300 f4 @ f11 and 320 seconds. Lousy jpeg, but the TIF file at 100% the signs are perfectly readable and very sharp.
Erik, the Arca-Swiss represents quite the challenge with a rather steep learning curve. I'm probably going for an IQ160 digital back. I expect it will be several weeks before I have an image worth posting, but will post here for your perusal.
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Looks sharp!
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Thanks, Erik. After I posted it I noticed some spots on the sensor - invoice said a CLA was performed. Must have missed the sensor!
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Coming from the D3, I have the same feeling about the D800/E. That's why I want...but cannot have, of course...a D800 sensor in a D3 body.
Or a D600 sensor
Or a A7R2 sensor
And fifth gen AF WB and ISO