NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: pkol on April 19, 2016, 20:59:57
-
Hello all,
I’ve been using a Fuji X-T1 along with my Nikon D810 for the past 2 years. Since my daughter was born (about 3 years ago) leaving the house with the D810 and lenses was a bit cumbersome, so given that I had a great time with the Fuji X100s I decided to get a small Fuji system: X-T1, 35mm f/1.4, 10-24 f/4 and 56 f/1.2. The main reason to get into the Fuji system was the good image quality, great lenses and smaller package. I really like the camera and lenses, but over the last 8 months (my daughter is moving ever so fast) the number of keepers I’m getting with the Fuji X-T1 is decreasing to a point where I always prefer to walk out of the door with the D810.
Last weekend I took my daughter to the park and the D810+70-200 f/4 came with us. My daughter loves the swings and trampolines and from 160 photos, I had about 10 marginally out of focus. THAT WAS IT!!! I got home and told the “house government” that I was getting rid of the Fuji system altogether (just keeping the X100s). To my amazement I didn't got into an argument... so I have green light to go ahead with it!!!
Despite the good iq of the Fuji, particularly with the 56 f/1.2, I find the continuous AF useless. Perhaps if I get one of the 2.8 zooms the performance would improve, but it would be always worse than Nikon and I would end up with a not so small system anymore. Not to mention the opportunity cost of buying more Fuji glass… (ie not buying Nikon glass!!!)
I’m thinking (99% decided…) about selling all my fuji gear and replace with a D750 + 24-120 f/4. I’m aware that the 24-120 f/4 is not a consensual lens, but it would be a walk around lens. Also I already have a 24-70 f2.8 but would like a bit more reach when I get out with just one lens.
I’ve been bouncing these thoughts in my head and would like to hear your opinions. Most probably you have been through similar situations in the past and would like to hear and learn about your experiences.
I’m not asking you to make a decision for me, but rather to enlighten me:
Does this make sense?
Am I missing something?
Please help!!!
Many thanks,
Paulo
-
Having dedicated camera "kits" makes a *lot* of sense. Find a combination of camera plus the fewest possible number of lenses and put everything, including charger, into a bag and treat that as an entity.
I'm sure there are occasions for which the Fuji produces the appropriate files.
Selling functional gear is not always the better solution unless one is severely cash strapped. Can be wiser to learn the strength and weakness of each kit.
-
Thanks for your wise words Bjorn. Funny that you mention keeping the whole system in a bag... That's exactly where it is - I have everything Fuji in a Hadley pro bag, ready to pick up and go...
I agree with you regarding the appropriateness of the fuji files/system, but its AF shortcomings are negating the reason why I got it in the first place.
While I'm not cash strapped, wouldn't it make more sense selling the Fuji to finance building my nikon system?
-
For photographing people I find the FX format superior to smaller formats including DX. FX allows greater background blurring due to using the same longer lenses to attain the same field of view. I also prefer a dSLR for photography where one wishes to photograph a fleeting moment such as the expression on a person's face.
I've been carrying a D800 almost everywhere daily since there was a break in across the street. I carry most everything I'd need in a small kit. I carry three batteries but I don't carry a charger. I'm not traveling of a charger would be in the kit. A USB cable is. I've been using a Tamrac Zoom Traveler from film days. It's a bit too small height wise for the D800.
The one thing I'd really like is a camera with better high ISO performance for daily use. I had hoped for a D700 replacement. The Nikon Df has the right image sensor though I thought the old style film SLR layout didn't fit me. I don't have a camera store is easy driving distance. I'd like to handle a Df.
---
Paulo,
You might consider a Nikon Df if high ISO would be beneficial. The D750 is lighter than the D810 but I'm not thinking the high ISO is much different. High ISO performance extends the hours when you can shoot successfully so I feel it's important.
Weight savings in the camera body isn't that important. The D800 weighs 880g v. the D750 at 750g, a savings of only 130g. The Dr weighs 765g so the weight difference to a D750 is a wash. Lenses is where you can save weight by selecting carefully.
I'd put together a dSLR kit with three lenses including an AF-S 50/1.8G or 50/1.4G. A zoom such as the AF-S 24-120mm f/4G ED VR or I'd probably go for the AF-S 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED VR.
The time at any age with children is short. Photos of family are probably the most important that most people will ever take. I think an FX dSLR is the best choice for mobility, people and esthetic image quality. Children can be challenging action subjects. I think your best choice is an FX dSLR.
Best,
Dave Hartman
I'm not a Nikon Df owner. Others here can give their opinions on the Df. My dSLR(s) today are a D800 and a D300s.
-
While I'm not cash strapped, wouldn't it make more sense selling the Fuji to finance building my nikon system?
Perhaps at this very moment in time. However, one needs to consider this in a longer frame of mind. We change our ways of life, our attitudes, and our interests, as time marches on. Selling something (and in particular something not being collector's items) almost never makes a profit, only loses funds. Keeping the items, however, and later again to find them useful, saves a lot.
I do reuse a surprising number of older items and rediscovering why I got them in the first place is always enjoyable.
-
Bjorn: I do agree with the longer term view. I like the fuji files and I find the X-T1 particularly nice to use (with the battery grip). I will certainly miss the 56 f/1.2 if I decide to go ahead and sell the Fuji. I do have lots of photographic gear (not as much as you have ;)) and I feel "guilty" for accumulating gear that I do not or rarely use. Hence the dilema!!! Sell the fuji to fund a second Nikon body! I know I won't make a profit (one hardly ever does while selling current photographic equipment) but I will certainly cut my losses!!! ;)
I'm almost certain that the D750 will make me a very happy camper!!! I have a D810 and love it.
Dave: Whilst I agree that FX format is very pleasing for photographing people I have to say that the Fuji 56 f/1.2 is a great portrait lens and I'm very happy with the results I'm getting. My issue is really the continuous AF. Some people claim to have decent results, but I'm not happy with it. I do agree with you that SLR FX is a great format for people photography. Whilst all formats have advantages/drawbacks Fx is clearly my preferred one (even tough I love my Fuji X100s and Nikon AW1). My idea was to put together a kit around the D750 with 20 1.8, 35 1.4, 85 1.8 or 24-120 4 + two primes. I know the zoom is not light but is very versatile focus range and I'm willing to carry a bit more weight to have 85 to 120 (compared to the 24-85).
I already have a D810 and the following lenses: 28 1.8, 50 1.4, 55 micro 2.8 AIS, 85 1.8, 105 micro VR 2.8, 14-24 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 4.
Looking to add a walk around zoom (24-120 f4) and 20 1.8, 24 1.8 and sigma 35 1.4.
Many thanks for taking a bit of your time to ask me questions and make me think about it.
-
Perhaps there is a D500 destined to make its appearance in your future? I know this will be a highly useful camera for me, in addition to the Df workhorse (visible), D600+D3200 (UV), and D5300 (IR). I do have D3S/D3X/D800 as well, but they see little use these days. Incoming is a Fuji S5Pro that will do service for emulated Infrared Ektachrome photography. Also have the small 1 Nikons for special use or amphibious/all-weather purposes, Panasonic GH-2s for UV video, and a Sony A7 hosting my S-mount Nikkors.
The point I'm trying to make is that one should plan for a given set of shooting conditions and preferences and set up a suitable kit accordingly. No camera can serve all requirements equally well. This was true already in the film era and applies even more today.
-
Paulo, you already have quite a versatile line-up of lenses for Nikon.
I understand that your attraction to Fuji was genuine. Selling it off hastily might be followed by regrets.
You could probably exploit the strengths and weaknesses of both systems by thinking of specific applications. One example (not necessarily the right one for you, but one which would make sense to me) would be to get rid of some Nikon primes you rarely use and keep the Nikon zooms (especially the 24-70 and 70-200) since they are very good at fast-paced action photography. This is the kit you will use near your home or if on short outings with your kids etc. Maybe keep the Macro lens as well if you use it regularly. You could probably replace the D810 by the D750 as well without any major drawbacks. These sales will generate quite some cash. Expand your Fuji kit by adding a few primes you like (my choices would be the 14, 23 and 90) and make it your kit for slower-paced, more conteplative photography when you get time on your own or to take on travels where weight is an issue. Over time, Fuji will likely bring out new bodies that have faster AF as well.
The other option is to concentrate all efforts on building the Nikon system like I did. If i added the Fuji system I would need to keep my Nikon lenses since I don't want to part with them. But for the moment I'm fine and I'm enjoying the ride a lot, so there is no need to bring in any distractions :D.
-
Bjorn,
I see your point and agree with you - One should pick the best instrument for the task at hand, like the english say "horses for courses". Also I can go on and buy a new nikon body (D750, D500, D7200) without selling my Fuji (as I mentioned before I'm not cash strapped). Photography is my hobby and I'm not making any money out of it... even though it brings me a lot of joy and enable me to freeze moments of my loved ones!!! This is not an easy decision as I like the X-T1 body, files and shooting experience. I'm just wondering what would I let go if I were to sell the Fuji for another Nikon body and a couple of Nikon lenses (without spending a lot more money...). I guess I would forego a lighter kit but would get a better focus system. What do you think I would let go (in photographic terms) if I were to sell my Fuji?
Simone,
Thanks for your thoughts. I see your point with the contemplative photography that Fuji (slower systems) lend themselves to. I learned that with extended use of the Fuji X100s - which is a great little camera that I won't sell!! The nikon lens I use the least is the 50 f/1.4, but I won't be selling that. My Fuji kit is: X-T1, 35mm f/1.4, 10-24 f/4 and 56 f/1.2. if I were to add another lens it would be the 90 f2. But I feel adding another lens would be getting down the rabbit hole even more. My point is maybe I should just sell the Fuji kit and, like you, concentrate on building a "proper" Nikon system, by adding a walk around lens and finish the 1.8 prime kit.
My other thoughts are related to the current state of the camera market. The mirrorless systems are in its infancy (even though m43, fuji and sony have a full range of options) and I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon and Canon launch mirrorless cameras in the very near future. Maybe getting out of the Fuji system while it is on the up is not a bad idea (assuming that I don't forego anything photographically speaking by switching to another nikon body), sit in the sidelines of the mirrorless market and then jump in once the landscape is a bit more settled and with a full Nikon system. By the way I can easily see myself using a DSLR in 20 years time... even if it is still a D810!!! (though I doubt the D810 will last that long...)
Again, many thanks for your thoughts.
-
good for you Paulo Kol. :o :o :o
Fuji is a good system but is being blown out of proportion by hype and fanboys. i,too almost fell for it ::) it is great for a couple of things but not an all around DSLR replacement. i would say that for travel, it is a pretty nice choice.
the D750 is all you need. it is not really a big camera, the batteries last longer and the AF is more reliable and predictable.
-
I sold all my m43 system because I never was satisfied using it, or with the images. I also sold all my Nikon DX equipment because FX is not much bigger and much nicer to use.
I now have a comprehensive Nikon FX system, fujifilm APSC, and also use MF in the studio. I like to dispose of unloved equipment because it clears my mind.
So yes it makes sense to me for you to sell the fujifilm gear, to replace it with a lighter FX camera to compliment your D810.
Cheers
-
Gary, an avid Fuji user here, esp. also for indoor action and kids, found that his new Fuji body, the XPro2 has a significant AF advantage over the XT-1. You might consider testing this body for yourself, because you got the good glass already.
Also the D500 might be an interesting addition to your Nikon kit, if it's AF is really as good as the D5 AF. More interesting even the replacement of the D810 with a D850, very probalby a Sony A7R2 chip with D5 AF in a D810 Body.
I know how challenging fast kids are. Currently I try my ability to focus manually on my daughter running & jumping. AF is not always the best solution here...
Beside my Nikon kit I only have the X100T.
-
photographing kids is not easy. when taking pictures of my baby in action, i would need to have AF-C on or else i wont get the eyes in focus :o :o :o
manual focusing only works when my baby is not energetic. she is kind of a hyper super-baby!
now i know why those baby studios charge a lot ::)
when my wife gave birth, i brought a D4 with me along with an X100s (for the silent shutter). The X100s just couldn't keep up despite being "the fastest" (in Fuji marketing speak) so I used the D4 instead.
i would also like to point out that the X20 is an amazing camera and it's AF is much more reliable than the X100s'. I sold the X100s and kept the X20 with me for cases when i need a small camera to take along.
The Xpro2 kind of fixed a lot of issues that hounded Fuji and is a game changer for them but at that price point it better be.
-
While I agree with Bjorn in principle, I do not agree in this instance of keeping the Fuji.
There is no point keeping a Fuji system which is getting obsolete by the hour. Fuji does not cut it for me in terms of ergonomics as the camera gets in the way of my style of photography. The Fuji lenses are on the border of acceptability.
I would get a D5300 and put expensive Nikkor glass on it and get shooting.
.....and if money is not the issue, get a D5 and be done with it for couple of years till the D5s shows it's tail.
Glass is Class.
-
It is a source of great irony that the small, lightweight camera...the very camera system one would think would be best suited for fast-moving reportage...turns out to be slow and plagued with delay...or AF speed/accuracy... issues.
I like the Fuji X system because of the conventional control layout, but the laggy speed issues don't go away.
My D800 fires every time I push the shutter, and has a shorter net delay(Me plus the cam) than an XT-1 or, interestingly, a Leica M9.
-
I think the 24-120 f/4 G on a FX camera is a very nice and flexible combination for taking pictures of kids in action. The lens is optically very good from 24-85 mm. From 85 to 120 mm you have weaker borders, but in center it is sharp from f/4, which makes it good for portraits. Things happen fast with the kids, so it is very nice to have the opportunity to take wide angel photos and capture nice portraits with the same lens. If there is a need for lens change, the spontaneous portrait moment may be gone.
I have used the combination D800E and 24-120 f/G a lot on my own kids with many keepers. I also carry primes, but the 24-120 is very often good enough for capturing the spontaneous moments. The autofocus is also pretty fast and snappy.
-
Keith: I never found the fuji to be innacurate in terms of AF, on the contrary if anything when it locks the Af is accurate. The EVF delay is there, while it is not ideal it never really bother me all that much. Have I missed the "moment" due to the lag? Yes I did but not many times and also you kind of get used to it. The EFV magnification is great (and was one of the things that help make my decision to get the X-T1 - Crop sensor benefits without the "small window" that characterise most crop sensor camera VF) it is approximately the size of a FX camera VF. Also the operation speed is not bad, it is obviously not comparable to a DSLR but it is OK. My issue is AFC, which in my experience is useless... and has such whenever I got out to walk in the park (with my daughter) or go on holidays, I'm always doubtful regarding taking the Fuji system...
Almass: I also agree with Bjorn in principle, but I'm leaning towards selling the fuji. The D5 is great but it would be a total overkill for my purpose. I would like to have the Nikon 51 point AF system and wouldn't like to loose in terms of ISO relative to my D810. So that rules out the D5xxx and D6xx bodies. But maybe the D500 could be an option.
Richard: The thing is when I go on holiday and will always bring both Fuji and Nikon. The reason is twofold: lack of trust in the AFC capabilities of the Fuji and the lens choice I have for the Nikon. not to mention the amazing quality of the D810 files. Nice to know that I'm not alone with the regards kids photography challenges. I agree with your assessment of the D750: not that big, battery life and predictability of AF. Bonus point is that it shares the same battery of the D810.
Bez: I also had a brief stint with a M43 camera, but couldn't live with it. The body and buttoms were too small and never really like it. So sold it off to a friend that really likes it.
Frank: While I'm 99% decided to sell my fuji system, I will probably could be swayed to the D500. But for now the D750 size, speed, OVF and ISO capability seem to be a great complement to my D810. I read some reports regarding the X-Pro 2 and know that in the next couple of months will most likely bring the X-T2, however I don't think that AFC speed/accuracy is up there with the DSLRs. And the price... is the same as d750. Hats of to you for using MF for taking piictures of your daughter running and jumping. I resorted to that using the fuji 10-24, to take advantage of the greater dof while stopped down. It kind of works but is not very versatile as AFC on a Nikon DSLR.
Christeo: thanks for your input regarding the usage of the 24-120. I'm kind of aware of its limitations but the versatility is what I'm looking for. Is the AF speed comparable to 24-70 f2.8 or more like the 70-200 f4?
Thank you all for taking your time to share your thoughts.
-
Paulo Kol, i dumped the D800 for the D750 and never looked back. The D800/D810's MP is more than what i need. all i wanted was a D700 replacement, thats all.
if that is the case then try the D750 and you might end up leaving the Fuji and D810 behind. better still sell them both to recover the cost. I never had so much fun since owning a D750 and it is not much bigger than my D7200.
what is bothering me is that i got the impression that you think that you are doing something wrong for dumping the Fuji. is it because of the pressure of people saying that mirrorless is the future of photography and that if you cannot make it work then you are the problem and not the system? these kind of thing is new, labeling people who do things differently that you. back in the days nobody cared what and how you shot.
i can tell you that there is no universal right or wrong in this regard. gear choice is very personal so long as you are happy. Nikon has made a great camera in the D750 despite the recalls. since owning one, the D800 was sold because 24MP is more than enough for me, the D4 sees less action because the high ISO of the D750 is good enough at ISO3200 and is a lot lighter/compact.
The flippy screen is also a bonus, specially when i shoot videos. :o :o :o
please correct me if i am wrong with any assumptions,sir.
-
Oh man does this story ring a bell...
Paulo, I've been there, done it (two times to X-T1) and am now back with a Fuji X-T10 along my Nikons. The thing one cannot argue with is bulk/weight. The other thing is the advantage an EVF has wrt. focusing in poor light situation and ease of manual focusing. Yes, the Fuji's suck at continuous AF and tracking but that's not what the camera does for me. It plays a role the Nikon's cannot and that's of value to me.
-
Richard,
Like you I had a D700 and all I wanted was a replecment for it. In 2013 I bit the bullet and bought a D800. While i was a bit sceptical at first the quality of the files was amazing, even though I had to tighten my shooting discipline. I kept the D700 as a backup but I hardly used it. Until i had the D800 fail (mainboard failure), send it to Nikon for repair. When the D810 came out I waited for the price drops in the UK (I was living there at the time) and swapped both D700 and D800 for a new D810. With all the small improvements I think, in hindsight, was a good decision. I really like the D810 and won't part with it. I don't mind having two cameras and the D810 file quality is amazing. Whilst I could never really trust the D800 Af system like I did the D700 AF, I can say that with the D810 I'm totally over the "D700 replacement syndrome" ;)
The D750 seems that would be a very good companion to the D810. I wouldn't give away any meaninful iq, could use the same lenses, batteries, chargers and will have a similar AF system. Also raw files are more friendly to edit than Fuji.
It's not that I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong,my doubts come from regreting selling it as for some situations it is a good system. On the other hand the opportunity cost of keeping the Fuji is not having a second Nikon body, with all the benefits as stated above. Is more optimisation of photographic resources if you will... Even though I could go on and buy the D750/D500 without selling the Fuji, I would probably fell "guilty" for accumulating more gear than i need. To be honest I already have more gear than what I need, so doing that will make it even worse.
I don't care about mirrorless being the future, as previously stated, I don't think I will ever (ever is a long time I know ;)) be without a DSLR. Maybe the future of mirrorless is CaNikon :D!!!
About the D750 what is your limit in terms of ISO? I've been getting good reasults up to ISO 6400 on my D810.
Thanks for your time.
Regards,
Paulo
-
"Christeo: thanks for your input regarding the usage of the 24-120. I'm kind of aware of its limitations but the versatility is what I'm looking for. Is the AF speed comparable to 24-70 f2.8 or more like the 70-200 f4?"
I do not own the 24-70 or 70-200 f/4, but the 70-200 f/2.8 VRII. I don`t think the 24-120 f/4 is quite as fast as the 70-200 f/2.8, but it is definitly faster than my AFS 1,8 G primes (28m and 85mm).
-
I do not own the 24-70 or 70-200 f/4, but the 70-200 f/2.8 VRII. I don`t think the 24-120 f/4 is quite as fast as the 70-200 f/2.8, but it is definitly faster than my AFS 1,8 G primes (28m and 85mm).
How does it compare with the 70-200 f/2.8?
-
Hi Sten,
Thanks for chipping in.
Oh man does this story ring a bell...
Paulo, I've been there, done it (two times to X-T1) and am now back with a Fuji X-T10 along my Nikons.
That's exactly what I want to avoid...
The thing one cannot argue with is bulk/weight. The other thing is the advantage an EVF has wrt. focusing in poor light situation and ease of manual focusing. Yes, the Fuji's suck at continuous AF and tracking but that's not what the camera does for me.
I agree with the weight even though I have my XT-1 permanetly attached to the battry grip, which brings the total weight closer to the D750 body. I also agree with the ease of manual focus. Do you believe that the Fuji has an adavantage to single point focusing in low light situations vs say a D750?
It plays a role the Nikon's cannot and that's of value to me.
Can you elaborate a bit more on this last point. What does the Fuji do that a Nikon cannot? Would be very interested in this last point.
many thanks for your time.
Regards,
Paulo
-
Hello, Paulo.
I would say that for what I do, ISO3200 should be my ceiling but ISO6400 still looks acceptable to be honest. nowhere as clean as the D4's but still useable. :o :o :o
-
How does it compare with the 70-200 f/2.8?
The 24-120 f/4 is a bit slower than the 70-200 f/2.8
-
Frank: While I'm 99% decided to sell my fuji system, I will probably could be swayed to the D500. But for now the D750 size, speed, OVF and ISO capability seem to be a great complement to my D810. I read some reports regarding the X-Pro 2 and know that in the next couple of months will most likely bring the X-T2, however I don't think that AFC speed/accuracy is up there with the DSLRs. And the price... is the same as d750. Hats of to you for using MF for taking piictures of your daughter running and jumping. I resorted to that using the fuji 10-24, to take advantage of the greater dof while stopped down. It kind of works but is not very versatile as AFC on a Nikon DSLR.
Here are some action shots taken with manual focus 4/200mm AI-S Micro-Nikkor:
-
Thanks for sharing the photos. They look pretty good for manual focus on a long FL.
Were these taken with a Fuji? Nevermind just checked the EXIF. Even more impressed as manual focus on a Fuji is easier than a normal OVF!!
-
What I hate about all of the Fujis I used till today is the delay caused by power management wakeup. The camera ist simply not ready when I need it. Any of my Nikons is and was back into film days from 1988 till now.
-
I see your point. The most modern Fujis have a High Performance Mode seeting that mitigates that delay to a certain extent. It trades off battery life for speed. It is not a match to Nikon though.
-
A late response to this thread, but I thought I would weight in. I went from a D700 to X-T1 - D750. There's definately a lot to like about the Fuji system and they are capable of producing some stunning results I think. As Frank has mentioned, Gary is using Fuji and show it is certainly possible to shoot action with the Fuji. I personally never quite "cracked it", I simply didn't get the results I wanted and ended up selling my Fuji and buying a D750.
For action shooting, the new D500 (and D5) sounds really good. If I was looking at a camera for that currently, I would certainly check out the D500 before deciding.
-
Thanks Jorgen and everyone for all your thoughts.
After considering all the inputs received here I sold all the Fuji equipment (still have a X100s) and bought a D750+24-120 f/4.
I also "tested" the D500 at Photografica, here in Copenhagen, but ultimately decided against it. Mainly due to the slight advantage of the D750 at high ISO and the fact that I do not own any DX lenses. One of the reasons for selling the Fuji was to concentrate on building up my Nikon lens collection. Going DX would mean that I would at least buy one walk around DX lens (probably 16-80 f/2.8-4) and while I can mount that on my D810 it wouldn't make any sense to do so.
So far I'm quite happy with the D750. I was never able to get a shot like the one below with the Fuji, not saying it is not possible I just couldn't get it.
Many thanks again for all your thoughts.
D750+70-200 f/4
-
Congrats. Enjoy your new camera.
-
congratulations!
Fuji has been very aggressive marketing their products, in fact they even have 1 day free rentals here in Japan! They are also very fast to point out the Xpro2 with the vastly improved AF. I agree that it is an awesome camera but it is just not for me :o :o :o
-
I was never able to get a shot like the one below with the Fuji, not saying it is not possible I just couldn't get it.
~~~
D750+70-200 f/4
Nice shot!
Enjoy your new camera.
Best,
Dave Hartman