NikonGear'23

Reviews => Ramblings of the Fierce Bear of the North => Topic started by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 18, 2015, 19:21:41

Title: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 18, 2015, 19:21:41
Not that many of us these days use the ancient Nikon rangefinders, with their very peculiar "S" bayonet mounts. Yet the Nikon "S" is the camera that literally made Nikon into what they are today.

Being "discovered" by David D. Duncan and other LIFE photographers on their travels to cover the Korean war, Nikon became the insider's tip in the early 1950s. A widely cited article in NY Times (Dec 1950) put the foundation for that fame, but no amount of writing would have helped if the cameras didn't match up to the best performers of those long gone days. It certainly did and not the least the lens designation "Nikkor" became a synonym of excellence. Funny about the name though, "Nikkor" was evidently choosen so as not to be mistaken for [Zeiss] Ikon, a big label at that time.

I purchased my first Nikon rangefinder in London UK more than 40 years ago. It was a black beauty and I haggled the price down to around $ 150 or so (in today's currency). It came without lenses, so I spent the next years tracking down lenses for it and finally managed to get a fair optical arsenal for it. I have used the camera quite extensively but it still operates with the same silky-smooth feeling after all these years.

Recently I was made aware that my camera was one out of a handful cameras made on order for Associated Press(AP) in UK and had great historical (and economical) value. The appraisal quoted 5-digit numbers ... However, I have no thought of selling the camera, no matter how high the bid becomes. Just adds to the enchantment of owning this beautiful old-timer.

This is how the camera looks like, with the classic Nikkor-S 5 cm f/1.4 lens attached,

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/297/18917549702_438feed9cd_h.jpg)

Here is a front view, showing the S-mount which is dual and has an internal and an external section. The internal part is for the 50 mm normal lenses which lacked their own focusing mechanism and had to be focused with the thumbwheel located on the top of the bodywork. A make-shift Nikon F to S adapter has been attached to the external S mount.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/543/18925695901_ec7a7fae8c_h.jpg)

A pre-AI 50 mm f/2 Nikkor merges nicely with the camera outline, but most Nikkors could be attached. As there is no linkage between the lens and camera controls, focusing has to be done by consulting the distance scale on the lens. Thus, shorter focal lengths will work the best.

I quickly found the rapid-wind lever to be chafing on my hand, so replaced it with a spare lever from an old Nikon F2. Despite the model and age differences the parts exchanged seamlessly.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/372/18736610629_3608391934_h.jpg)

Later, I purchased several other of the rangefinder Nikons, so now have the following selection:
- Nikon S (1951)
- Nikon S2 (1954)
- Nikon SP (1957)
- Nikon S3 Black AP (1958)
- Nikon S3 "2000 Commemoration" (2000 jubilee model)

In addition, I have the Bessa R2S (2003) which accepts the "S" mount lenses, has built-in TTL metering, and dare I say a much better viewfinder than any of the older Nikons. Unfortunately the Bessa now also is history, being discontinued after just a short production run. There still are stocks of it, but they won't last forever.

I purchased the Voigtländer 15 mm f/4.5 Heliar, 21 mm f/4 Scopar, and the 50 mm f/1.5 Nokton, with my Bessa R2S. All of these mount on my Nikon rangefinders as well.

From the Nikkor line I have the 2.1 cm f/4, 35 mm f/1.8, 35 mm f/2.5, 35 mm f/3.5, 50 mm f/2, a number of 5 cm/50 mm f/1.4 lenses dating back to early 1951, plus the special version called 50 mm f/1.4 Olympic which is multicoated and has improved optics. I also own the famous 8.5 cm f/2 and 10.5 cm f/2.5 Nikkors, plus the 135 mm f/3.5 and the 25 cm (250 mm) f/4 telephoto Nikkor. To complete the picture, I have made adapters so I can use the various UV lenses on my rangefinders.

Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Frank Fremerey on June 18, 2015, 19:27:52
I like to see a digital version of that. Small. Beautiful. 24x36. Old and new optics. Mirrorless.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 18, 2015, 20:06:34
That makes two of us ...
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: BEZ on June 18, 2015, 20:22:17
Make that three  .....I suffer with the fujifilm quirks for now.

Cheers
Bez
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Intrepid on June 18, 2015, 20:33:52
I pretty much know the story but good to see all of it is put together and in one place. :)

I have fondled a few S', seen the innards of a few but never bought one (including the Millenium set that was on sale in a neighborhood shop for a long while).

I do have and use (current and on a Leica MM) a W-Nikkor-C 2.5 cm f4 (A Zeiss Topogon clone) and a Nikkor P.C. 10.5cm f/2.5 (Zeiss Sonnar clone)- both in Leica thread mounts.

I covet the W Nikkor C 3.5cm f/1.8 lens.  This lens' design is unique, original (inspired a Konica 35/2 and later many many more) and far ahead of its times.  The LTM lens is difficult to find and is quite expensive.

It would be nice if Nikon come up with a compact mirror less (full frame and no tiny sensor) camera.  There were rumors but nothing showed up.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 18, 2015, 21:01:07
The W-Nikkor 35 mm f/1.8 is an amazing design and years ahead of its time. Currently used by me on the 1 Nikons, but it also see occasional service on the Panasonics.

I was fortunate enough to pick up a clean sample at a very decent price.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Gary on June 18, 2015, 22:15:42
What I appreciate about Nikon film cameras, is that for three to four decades, Nikon captured every major news event that occurred in the free world. That is a lot of history.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 18, 2015, 22:21:54
Perhaps even in the "non-free" world as well?

Consider this is a truly international forum and concepts of political groupings might differ amongst our members. So better to avoid such labels.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on June 18, 2015, 22:23:16
Nice write up, I too have a Nikkor P.C. 10.5cm f/2.5 LTM that I use on my Leica M9 and now I can finally enjoy it in full, it took some re-lube cleaning and adjustment of the range finder to get it up to speed.

I was also waiting for a new S or Sp with sensor for some years but gave up and added Leica M range and have not regretted it :)
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Intrepid on June 18, 2015, 22:35:15
Perhaps even in the "non-free" world as well?

Consider this is a truly international forum and concepts of political groupings might differ amongst our members. So better to avoid such labels.

I think everything was clubbed together.  Numerous Front page iconic pictures published in the west were made in suppressed/conflict zone areas.  This includes Spain from the Franco era if I am not mistaken.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Intrepid on June 18, 2015, 22:38:46
Nice write up, I too have a Nikkor P.C. 10.5cm f/2.5 LTM that I use on my Leica M9 and now I can finally enjoy it in full, it took some re-lube cleaning and adjustment of the range finder to get it up to speed.

I was also waiting for a new S or Sp with sensor for some years but gave up and added Leica M range and have not regretted it :)

That is surprisingly a heavy beast!  I bought mine from a real Leica user. Mint sample!
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on June 19, 2015, 18:58:58
Indeed it is almost too heavy for a rangefinder lens but the sharpness and fantastic Bokeh is worth it.

Mine had a little stiff focusing, after all the lens is 50 years old and also the focusing helicoil is very long.
Mine is no longer Mint, it has been in and out of the camera a lot already :)
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Mike Wallace on March 01, 2016, 08:28:40
Cool post!  A great read!  I hope to be able to start building my collection of vintage film cams soon.  How I would love  to add a fine example such as this.  Just a few zero's out of my budget for the moment.  Thanks Bjorn! 
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Almass on March 01, 2016, 09:48:57
Not that many of us these days use the ancient Nikon rangefinders, with their very peculiar "S" bayonet mounts. Yet the Nikon "S" is the camera that literally made Nikon into what they are today.

Now that you mention rangefinders. I don't have a Nikon S or any rangefinder camera. I might have something long forgotten which belonged to a family member. The camera is tucked away somewhere.

However, in my vintage lens collection, with which you are partly familiar, I was gifted by Justin a Nikon 50/1.1 for services rendered and which is now sitting with the other 50mm namely a couple of Zunow and a couple of Angenieux P.......etc. They are locked away in the other house heavily insured.

Shame, as they dormant unused but much loved.

Maybe a vist to the good Doctor one day so he can advise whether to change mounts or streamline for one particular rangefinder mount as they are in different obsolete mounts.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 01, 2016, 10:21:47
The 50mm 1.1 need a very slight modification to the rear housing, then it fits a standard Nikon S to Leica M focus adapter...
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Almass on March 01, 2016, 16:20:29
The 50mm 1.1 need a very slight modification to the rear housing, then it fits a standard Nikon S to Leica M focus adapter...

Yes. It would be great if you could sometime have a look as well at the Zunow 50/1.1 and the AngenieuxP 50/1.5 and 1.8 and other rubbish similar stuff as well.
Each seems to have a different mount of some sort.
Maybe when you visit London next time.....and I am there as well  ;D

Are you saying that I could use the Nikon 50/1.1 only on a Leica? I don't have Leica bodies only a very old original S1.
Are they usable on modern CaNikon's?

Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Longhiker on March 01, 2016, 16:41:16
I too would love to see Nikon come out with something along the lines of that series in the more modern form. I think they would do very well.

I can understand your attachment to this lovely old camera. It does remind me (only superficially) of my father's hand-me-down Argus C3 that I lugged around on my week-long backpacking trips into the Cascades as the first 35mm camera I used to record my travels. Technically crappy photos (totally my fault), but still great memories. I never did really get a good handle on focusing true rangefinders. Again a failing on my part. Unfortunately, my youngest brother lost it. That would be another camera that I would never sell.

I'm sure many people have some piece of photo gear that is too dear to part with. You just have a piece that also has a superlative history that just makes it that much more interesting. I bet you've got a lot of items like that.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 02, 2016, 00:26:02
Yes you can get the Nippon Kogaku to work on a focusing adapter on Leica M

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mint-Nikon-Nikkor-N-50mm-f-1-1-NIPPON-KOGAKU-adapter-for-Leica-M-Mount-RF-Couple-/311383384264

Zunow 50mm 1.1 as well ;) Should be very good, I know a camera shop in London ReddotCamera there you can see on as well ;)

Could be great fun with a London meet up ;)
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 02, 2016, 00:55:09
Zunow 50mm f/1.1 with adapter

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-PING-PONG-1st-Ver-Zunow-50mm-F-1-1-Teikoku-kogaku-Nikon-S-Leica-M-Sony-A7-/311313070867?hash=item487bb47b13:g:yXIAAOSwZjJU~QyG

Similar lens, MS Optical 50mm f/1.1

http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2922.0.html
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: null on March 06, 2016, 22:56:53
The Zunow 5cm F1.1 internal mount lens could be used on most Mirrorless cameras using an adapter. Amedeo makes a good one for various mirrorless mount cameras. He also makes them for Leica M-Mount cameras, are rangefinder coupled. He has two series of RF coupled mounts, the Nikon S-Mount uses a straight Cam, the Contax->Leica mount uses an Indexed Cam to correct for the difference in focal length. I believe the Zunow was made in Contax mount and in Nikon mount- best to look for a marking on it. Very rare lens, congratulations.

I've ended up with a nice collection of Nikon RF's and lenses over the years, the S3 and SP being the favorite users- a 50 on the SP and 35 on the S3 being typical. I "fell into" a pair of Nikon M's at an old antique store, user condition, an M, and an M with flash Sync. The M without Sync had a collapsible Sonnar on it: I figured the original owner did not like the Rigid Nikkor 5cm F2 and had missed out on the Collapsible Nikkor. The M with Sync had a 5005 series 5cm F1.4 on it that someone crushed the filter ring to use 39mm filters with it. Straightened it out, but a Series VI adapter on it. $500 for the pair... no complaints.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 06, 2016, 23:32:25
That was a really good deal ;)

Yes it was the Amedo adapters I was thinking about - I have been looking for a nice fast nikkor for my Leica M9 for a long time, seems like collectors keep the prices at an unrealistic level,,,
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Almass on March 07, 2016, 05:41:59
Thank you Doctor and Brian.

I don't know who is Amadeo?

The person I used to be in contact with is AF Wong in HK. Are we talking about the same person?
I lost contact with him long time ago.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 07, 2016, 10:38:12
Here is his site:

http://www.amedeo.muscelli.net/

It contains references to his 'auctions'  ;)
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on March 07, 2016, 11:04:51
That's very interesting. Perhaps I can use my 5 cm Nikkors on the Sony A7 after all? (I have adapters for the 85 & 105 "S" Nikkors already).
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 07, 2016, 11:11:17
Yes that will work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Contax-Rangefinder-Nikon-S-to-Sony-E-Mount-Nex-A7-adapter-/131726409414?hash=item1eab817ec6:g:2v0AAMXQrhdTVwSj
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on March 07, 2016, 11:18:32
His description is terse - the 5 cm lenses have no helicoid of their own, is that included with the adapter?
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 07, 2016, 11:31:28
Yes you lock the lens at infinity, the adapter has a build in 'replacement' helicoil capable of properly adjusting 21mm all the way up to 135mm lenses properly

It doesn't matter if it is Contax or Nikon mount since you use it on a Mirror less...  ::)

For further info for Leica M users like M9:

The dedicated Leica M adapter is for 50mm lenses only, but also has this 'replacement' helicoil build in:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-S2-S3-SP-Rangefinder-Lens-to-Leica-M3-M8-M9-adapter-ring-/131726663868?hash=item1eab8560bc:g:ZhwAAOSwh6xTsJEW


Please note: he uses the same image from time to time between Contax and Nikon for these!!! And here it makes a difference on Leica M!!!
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on March 07, 2016, 12:10:20
Hm. As I have no immediate plans of going the Leica route, perhaps best to stick to the generic Sony E adapter then? I did shoot a lot with the 5 cm f/2 and f/1.4 Nikkors back in my SP/S3 days and liked their drawing.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on March 07, 2016, 12:31:23
Yes it is a much more universal adapter, and makes wide angles capable of being shot much closer,,,
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on March 07, 2016, 12:32:34
OK. Thanks for the heads-up, Erik, I'll scuttle straight over and get one of these.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: null on March 07, 2016, 12:55:06
I have two HK adapters- starts with a Kiev mount,

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5698/21338067009_66eaee854c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/yvzaV4)m8_nikkor5cmF14 (https://flic.kr/p/yvzaV4) by fiftyonepointsix (https://www.flickr.com/photos/90768661@N02/), on Flickr

And I have two early Amedeo adapters and the latest one for internal mount lenses. Amedeo uses a CNC to make the helical from brass, does not start with the Kiev mount anymore.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1716/25360069931_e3783b9411_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ECYZg2)Test of new Amedeo Adapter (https://flic.kr/p/ECYZg2) by fiftyonepointsix (https://www.flickr.com/photos/90768661@N02/), on Flickr

Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Almass on March 07, 2016, 14:09:13
Here is his site:

http://www.amedeo.muscelli.net/

It contains references to his 'auctions'  ;)

OK. Thank you
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on March 07, 2016, 14:46:23
OK. Thanks for the heads-up, Erik, I'll scuttle straight over and get one of these.

The super adapter now is on its way to my remote corner of the globe. Thanks again, Erik et al., for drawing my attention to this item. The Sony A7 might have a future in my work after all.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: RBSinTo on May 07, 2016, 00:38:01
Bjorn,
I've been using Nikon film SLRs since 1977, and their rangefinders for about 10 or 12 years, after reading about them while researching a Nikon F.
Since then I gotten three S3s (two vintage and one re-issue), a vintage SP and a CV R2S Bessa, as well as a nice range of CV and Nikon lenses, and an Amedeo F-S adapter that lets me use my 17 and 19mm Vivitar F-mount lenses.
The Nikons are rugged, dependable and their lenses are first rate.
As you mentioned, their only weakness is the rangefinder spot, with is vastly fainter than those of Leicas or the CV Bessas.
Still, wonderful gear and a pleasure to use.
Robert 
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Imagelover on June 16, 2019, 16:15:22
Around twenty years ago I bought a Nikon/Nikkor lens collection from a photography shop in centre of Oslo, Norway. Among the items 10 Nikon rangefinder cameras, 22 Nippon Kogaku rangefinder lenses and 1 Zunow 5 cm f1.1 lens (No. 5909). I used google in order to get more information about this lens. It has a "C" on the back. On Ebay they have a similar, but older lens for sale. Around 8000 Euro? I've red the history of the Zunow company, but this lens can it be used on the Nikon cameras or only on Contax? Thanks for helping!
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Erik Lund on June 18, 2019, 12:28:47
Here is a little bit of info,,,:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_S-mount


I would use Zunow 50mm 1.1 on a Nikon Z ;)
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Imagelover on June 18, 2019, 14:29:27
Thanks, Erik! Yet I don´t have a Nikon mirrorless, but I have the lens. I might go for the D850 first, but I'll see what happens from Nikon this year. Thanks again!
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 18, 2019, 15:05:29
The rangefinder lenses in S mount will generally work very well on the Z bodies. One gets pretty inexpensive adapters from RF(S) to Z mount on eBay.

Several of these old-timers are decent performers even by today's standards. The W-Nikkor 3.5cm f/1.8 plus its f/3.5 sibling are very good. Same can be said for the legendary 8.5cm f/2 (the lens that made Nikon famous) and the 10.5cm f/2.5. Some much more recent designs by Cosina/Voigtländer exist in RF(S) versions as well, and can be used to their full advantage on the Z6/Z7.

Here is the 8.5cm f/2 RF on my full-spectrum modified Z6.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Imagelover on June 19, 2019, 20:17:24
Thanks, Birna! I'll try to get the adapter! Many years ago from a dealer in Skippergata in Oslo I got some Nikkor S-lenses: The W-Nikkor 2.5cm f4 (4045xx), W-Nikkor 2.8cm f3.5 (7197xx), W-Nikkor-C 3.5cm f2.5 (2441xx), W-Nikkor-C 3.5cm f2.5 (2467xx), W-Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5 (2709xx), W-Nikkor-C 3,5cm f3.5 (4287xx), Nikkor-N 5cm f1.1 (1414xx), Nikkor-S-C 5cm f1.4 (3914xx), Nikkor-H-C 5cm f2 (7341xx), Nikkor-P-C 8.5cm f2 (2893xx), Nikkor-P-C 10.5cm f2.5 (9154xx), Nikkor-Q-C 13.5cm f3.5 and Nikkor-Q 25cm f4 (2724xx). Hope I can try some of them in the near future!
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 19, 2019, 22:04:19
That's some serious collection of old-timer Nikkors :D I envy you the 2.5cm/4 and 5cm/1.1, and note in passing you don't have the 3.5cm/1.8 which is a really good performer.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Imagelover on June 20, 2019, 15:27:10
Thanks, Birna! Later I may look for the 3.5cm/1.8.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage - AP S3??
Post by: CameraQuest on June 22, 2019, 20:38:18
Greetings,

I am very curious to find out the source of 

"Recently I was made aware that my camera was one out of a handful cameras made on order for Associated Press(AP) in UK"

Bob Rotoloni has no AP S3 special order in his Nikon Rangefinder books.

Thanks,

Stephen
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Birna Rørslett on June 22, 2019, 21:42:30
Actually, I got the info from Mr. Rotoloni himself. He asked me to strip down the camera and give a very detailed report on everything inside; this to ascertain it was a genuinely black S3 and not a later paint job.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: paul hofseth on June 29, 2019, 15:21:14
Apparently the Nikonos was also adopted by reporters struggling in the wet forests, so I would guess that contributed to Nippon Kogaku's good reputation.

p.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: BruceSD on February 05, 2020, 05:00:28
What ever happened to Bjorn ?   I have not seen any posts from him in a long time.
Title: Re: The "S" heritage
Post by: Birna Rørslett on February 05, 2020, 09:17:44
What ever happened to Bjorn ?   I have not seen any posts from him in a long time.

'He' became a 'she'. Birna is the female form of Bjørn.