NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Other => Topic started by: PeterN on December 17, 2015, 11:14:10
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I purchased a Kaiser slide duplicator to digitize piles of slides shot by my dad in the analog era.
To get full size, a focal length of 100mm is recommended. So I tried the Nikon 105mm. Outcome: very blurry results with "shadows of light" almost looking like halos; can't find a better word). I shot tripod, VR off, iso 100 and tried various aperture settings (shutter speed: auto). All crappy.
Then I tried the 60mm. Basically the same but w/o "light-shadows" and therefore looking a bit sharper.
I guess I am doing something wrong. Any hints and tips how to get the best results in slide duplication?
Thank you.
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Can you post some images of the set up? Plus details of the illumination. Hard to point out sources of error without having a look at the device.
I hope you don't do AF.
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I will do that asap (I am not at home, right now).
Regarding AF: I shoot MF.
Light source: I tried day light and LED lamp.
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Diffused lighting with an electronic flash/strobe is the way to go. That ensures constant light conditions and colour temperature for each slide to be copied.
Do note that image contrast inevitably will increase by any kind of copying slide originals. Thus you need to process your RAW files using a low contrast setting. PhotoNinja has this feature easily accessible.
A final point is that film originals are nowhere as sharp as any current digital capture done directly. Just ensure the grain structure of the slide film is well rendered and you should be able to get excellent digitised slides.
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Thank you, Bjørn. I will try that.
I will be back with results.
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There is also some information here, Peter --> http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,850.0.html (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,850.0.html)
I had more or less the same situation, but it's on a hold now here, because of the bad quality of the originals and lack of time.
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There is also some information here, Peter --> http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,850.0.html (http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,850.0.html)
I had more or less the same situation, but it's on a hold now here, because of the bad quality of the originals and lack of time.
That is a valueable source, John! I searched for "slide dpublication". I should have used "conversion".
Your photo of the slide boxes made me smile . It looks like what I have here.
Before I purchased the Kaiser device, I thought about renting a professional scanner for a week. Does cost less than buying. After reading your thread, I may have to follow that path again!
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As Bjørn stated, show us your setup and example shots and we can attempt to make suggestions for improvements.
However, if you can automate the ingestion of the slides with a pro scanner, that'd be the best quality and least inconvenience for you, the operator.
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Mongo is with Pluton. Mongo did not think people still used slide scanners to digitalise their slides. Even specialised scanners seem to take too long, are too expensive and often give less than satisfactory results.
Mongo has been using the following set up for years with very good success.
Images 1 to 3 are of a better quality Nikon slide copier used back in the film days when they copied slides onto film. Mongo is not suggesting you get anything like this one unless you you already have one or can get one cheaply. Mongo now uses it to copy slides straight onto digital media using an digital SLR - nothing could be simpler. you also get the benefit of RAW images if you like and that gives great scope for corrections etc during post processing if you intend to “clean them up a little”. This set up gives full slide coverage even using a 1:2 macro lens.
image 4 is of a much more obtainable and inexpensive after market unit (this one is made by Pangor but there are many other types)
Always clean your slides and remove any dust, fungus etc. you can before copying them. It is false economy to think the fancy scanners can remove all this stuff - they cannot and it takes forever for them to try and they can not do as good a job as you can in post processing if necessary but prevention is better than cure.
when starting off , take a few test images to get a good light reading/balance or setting up your flash for better consistency. Set your white balance to suit. Use a reasonable depth of field setting , say, f8 or f11 (although, it does not seem to be strictly needed as the slide is a flat field object (these are Mongo’s words). Your ISO can be as low as your camera will go because even if long exposures are required (and usually they are never required), there will be NO movement as the unit moves as a whole (if it does at all). Set the focus (and this is not usually required for subsequent slides after setting up the focus for first slide - but just check especially if you have slide mounts with different thicknesses).
Once these things are done (and they really take very little time indeed), you can copy a slide in as much time as it takes you slot it in, press the shutter button, remove the slide and slot in another slide. It takes Mongo less than 10 seconds per slide doing this instead of minutes each.
the images themselves will hopefully answer most of your questions but open to questions if you have any.
cheers Mongo
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Thank you, Pluton and Mongo!
This is my setup (this one shows the SB-800 but I also use the built-in flash as commander.
(http://www.visualcue.photography/img/s12/v176/p1667169036-6.jpg)
I did manually choose exposure (ISO100, f4-f8, various shutter speeds) but TTL flash. I probably need to do some further testing (manual flash, other light sources, focus rail) first before posting some examples.
I do hope that the 6506 slide duplicator is not causing the problem in creating the halo and sharpness problems. When I tried another approach (see link below) the results were immediately much better.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/10/29/the-other-way-to-scan-positive-slides-or-why-i-kept-my-big-dslr-by-stefan-schmidt/
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A first suggestion would be to move the speed light source further away. At this close range it acts as a point light making contrast harsher and probably exacerbating the 'halo' issue. If you can insert a pane of opaque glass in the light path as well it would improve the matter further.
Remove the camera and shine a strong torch with a narrow beam through your contraption to observe any signs of shiny, reflective surfaces inside the extension tube etc. These can only add to the final degradation of the copied image. Put some flocking black velvet inside the tube(s) if required.
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Will do that. Thanks.
Initially I had the light source further away but as the results were miserable, I tried to put it closer. Not a good idea. ;-)
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You may wish to add more diffusion between the existing [diffused] light source and the slide carrier. You cannot "over diffuse" it.
Frosted or milky glass or acrylic(Plexiglas, Perspex) work. Try to find materials that are as close to 'color neutral' as possible.
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Mongo agrees with the others. your light source appears too close UNLESS you have very good diffuser material in between. Also, setting your flash to manual and adjusting until correct should work better.
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I've learned a lot. Thank you. I should have asked first for advice instead of buying the Kaiser device. It's not a good device. Some findings:
1. The tube has a lot of reflections
2. the closeup lens is poor quality
3. the closeup lens does not work with the nikon 105mm macro lens and only so-so with the 60mm. Quality is awful, especially with 105mm.
3. I used initially the closeup lens because the tube is not long enough to use it with the 105mm. Length is enough for the 60mm but cropping is required.
During my final test I used the tube on the 105mm and put the the slide holder a couple of inches in front of that in a dark room with a diffused ligt source behind it (using plexiglass as diffuser). Colors, sharpness, and grain structure looked better.
I'll post some results later. The remaining question is whether I may better rent a good scanner, like the Nikon 5000
Thanks again for your ery helpful advice
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Many many years ago I decided the future would be digital, so spent "some" time scanning about 80.000 slides for myself and clients. I think at peak production I had 4 or 5 scanners running concurrently most of them (35 mm devices) working with batch attachments so could handle around 50 slides each. The large-format scanners worked with film strips or single sheets though. The output directed to a large-capacity NAS RAID5 system. I loaded the scanners and set them going, then sat in my den drinking coffee and batch-processing files over the network. Very tiresome, but necessary for my own part. Also paid good money for the work conducted on behalf of clients. I'm so pleased that period of my life is over with and will never do anything similar again.
And, yes, the reason for posting this: the 35mm scanners were Nikon 5000 units. Excellent film scanners. I purchased (very cheap) a stack of Thinkpad laptops from a bankrupt company and put firewire cards into them to match with the 5000 scanners. Got the scanners for a song too. I have kept one 5000 for the occasional helping out family or clients, and sold off the rest of them.
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Probably the best restricted-budget alternative for low-volume slide duping is the Nikon ES-1 unit.
It mounts directly to a 52mm front-threaded Micro-Nikkor(the old 55, 40mm DX, etc) or, with a Nikon BR-5 adapter to the newer 62mm threaded 60mm Micros. I'm 99% sure that an inexpensive 62mm to 52mm step-down ring may be substituted for the BR-5.
It's not as nice as a big, solid bellows set up, but it does work.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/37453-REG/Nikon_3213_ES_1_Slide_Copying_Adapter.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/37453-REG/Nikon_3213_ES_1_Slide_Copying_Adapter.html)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/37174-REG/Nikon_2631_BR_5_Mount_Adapter_Ring.html#! (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/37174-REG/Nikon_2631_BR_5_Mount_Adapter_Ring.html#!)
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I agree with Keith, the ES-1 unit is what I have used and reasonably effective certainly for my needs of relatively few slides.
I used the ES-1 with a 60mm 2.8 D lens plus a BR 5.