NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on September 13, 2015, 11:40:59
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After the recent announcement in Germany by Zeiss of the new Milvus line, with both Ming Thein (my favorite photographer) and Lloyd Chambers in attendance, perhaps I missed it, but the elephant in the room IMO is the lack of any follow-up comments by either Ming Thein or Lloyd Chambers on the next Otus.
This, after we all have waited a good year for the announcement. I can only surmise that this means there is one coming and perhaps soon and they don’t want to say anything now. The new Otus is conspicuous by its absence.
Great blog by Ming Thein on his visit to Zeiss, Germany.
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/09/12/a-visit-to-zeiss-and-thoughts-on-the-milvus-line/
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Likely it is quite difficult to achieve Otus level performance in a f/1.4 DSLR wide angle.
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Likely it is quite difficult to achieve Otus level performance in a f/1.4 DSLR wide angle.
I agree; that's true, which is all the more why some of us are waiting with baited breath to try one.
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When I need very wide and high quality I stitch two or more frames. So why not stitch and stack 😊😉
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Stitch and stack have their limits, esp in windy conditions in the very near field.
Strong well defined separation of certain parts from others gives the software and the editor a lot of leverage glueing together image parts.
My first experience with Zerene already show me that wide open means the software can easier distinquish the higher frequency parts from the lower and automask them. Now I understand why Michael needs less DOF.
The 24mm Otus Michael is awaiting for quite some time now seems to offer just that: possibility to stitch (wider field) and stack (better defined edges for autodetect and retouche) on a new level of "painting focus", the most colourful way Michal uses to describe his admirable work.
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On the other hand I am not sure that the non announcement really means Lloyd and Ming might have NDA-Parts up their sleeve to be part of the development process and marketing at ZEISS.
Possible but not necessary
Frank
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On the other hand I am not sure that the non announcement really means Lloyd and Ming might have NDA-Parts up their sleeve to be part of the development process and marketing at ZEISS.
Invited from America and Asia to the Zeiss HQ is seldom without a cause.
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Negative observation is ambiguous and much less informative than positive ones.
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John. A 24 Otus might be something I consider as replacement of my AFS Nikkor if it really beats the s*** out
of the Nikkkor and has great near field capability. The Nikkor is still a stunning lens.
This would be perfect for ultra near field panos of food and wildlife...
Michael. Did you try to rent the a7r2 with the 2.0/25 Batis?
The combo of 42 MP + image stabilized + backlit body seems to work extremly well. My dealer in the city center
claims to have sold at least 12 of these for 3350Euro a pop.
The Batis is no Otus but it is still a Zeiss not a Sigma.
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Negative observation is ambiguous and much less informative than positive ones.
Yes, it is, but right now, it is what we have going for us.
And Frank: I sent it's predecessor back. The A7rII would have to solve the lossy-compression issue, and hopefully have better batteries (it is ridiculous to have to purchase six batteries (as Lloyd Chambers points out). And while they are at it, all levels of EVF magnification should work to a similar degree of clarity.
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The A7rII would have to solve the lossy-compression issue, and hopefully have better batteries (it is ridiculous to have to purchase six batteries (as Lloyd Chambers points out).
Sony doesn't use bad batteries (they also make the Nikon batteries), they are just very small so they can fit in the small grip of the a7 cameras.
Dragging around 6 batteries is old fashioned DSLR thinking, the a7 series can be fully charged by USB in 1 hour so charge the camera in the field with a (solar) powerbank just like a smartphone, tablet, GPS, etc. While driving I hook up the camera to the USB charger when needed and at home I hook it up to the iPad or iPhone charger.
Going mirrorless isn't limited to just buying a new camera, it involves a complete makeover on how you deal with gear :)
You are spot on with the lack of 14 bits RAW though, they are working on it and the new a7SII supposedly has this issue fixed.
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Sony doesn't use bad batteries (they also make the Nikon batteries), they are just very small so they can fit in the small grip of the a7 cameras.
I didn't say they were bad. They are just short-lived. Batteries that don't last are "bad" for what I do. I have had all kinds of mirrorless cameras, at least six or so. I just did not find them that useful for my work, which I admit is kind of specialized. Let us know when they fix the lossy problem. They fixed the electronic first-curtain thing, which is why I returned the Sony A7r.
What I really want is a Nikon D820 with a great EVF and 42 or more MP. I have a number of Sony cameras, but most of them are video, where they really do have it right. I don't need a small camera, just one with the features I feel I need -- same as everyone else. However, I hear you, and may get the A7RII when they fix the lossy thing. I would probably have to use it on rails.
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Looks like one would be dragging around either batteries or a solar charger no matter which camera is being used. "-)
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Zeiss spent a lot of $$$ paying for Ming and Lloyd to visit. I'm looking forward to their reports. Lloyd is the best, most thorough tester i've ever met in my life.
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Batteries that don't last are "bad" for what I do.
Have you ever tried to hook the camera up to a batterypack using a dummy battery? Both the Nikon and Sony cameras are equipped for this use.
D800E running on a 60Wh batterypack:
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8398/8692814348_61f5dc9c3b_c.jpg)
How it is hooked up; dummy battery installed, cable through the cable hole which is plugged into the powerbank which is set at 12V.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8538/8691658617_dbb941b291_c.jpg)
The 60Wh powerbank has roughly the same capacity as four D810 batteries and 8 times the little Sony batteries.
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Lloyd is the best, most thorough tester i've ever met in my life.
I agree with that. I trust his reports, he is extremely thorough and his findings are well documented and presented in an understandable way. And his test of a certain camera or lens never ends, he keeps reporting after months of use if he finds something worth reporting. He is also very practical oriented, based on field use of equipment. His massive, ongoing series "Making Sharp Images" is a masterpiece, and he has put enormous amount of work in that.
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Have you ever tried to hook the camera up to a batterypack using a dummy battery? Both the Nikon and Sony cameras are equipped for this use.
D800E running on a 60Wh batterypack:
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8398/8692814348_61f5dc9c3b_c.jpg)
How it is hooked up; dummy battery installed, cable through the cable hole which is plugged into the powerbank which is set at 12V.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8538/8691658617_dbb941b291_c.jpg)
The 60Wh powerbank has roughly the same capacity as four D810 batteries and 8 times the little Sony batteries.
Thanks for that. I have similar packs. All I was saying, which is very simple, is that I wish (and expect) camera makers to give us longer-lasting batteries. Make sense? I understand we can work around this. We all have to. What choice? You have presented a good work-around. Appreciated. I just don't need more stuff to carry. I guess I am protesting at Sony. I have a lot of Sony products. They are not quite professional in the still camera area... IMO.
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What aboput service?
My local camera dealer was quite open and said something like "A 7XX means send to service wait for weeks and see what happens."
No NPS, which is very important for me.
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Having to charge the camera at every opportunity, as busy, phone-dependent folks do with their smartphones(in the car, at the office, on location, at the restaurant--- all in a single day), is not a desirable state of affairs. I miss the Nikon D3 I had...the battery lasted a month.
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Likely it is quite difficult to achieve Otus level performance in a f/1.4 DSLR wide angle.
If the current models are any guide, a wide Otus would have to be huge, with a lot of aspheric elements and special glasses, and very expensive. Maybe they would go for f/2 instead to maintain a better balance of quality, cost and size?
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After the recent announcement in Germany by Zeiss of the new Milvus line, with both Ming Thein (my favorite photographer) and Lloyd Chambers in attendance, perhaps I missed it, but the elephant in the room IMO is the lack of any follow-up comments by either Ming Thein or Lloyd Chambers on the next Otus.
This, after we all have waited a good year for the announcement. I can only surmise that this means there is one coming and perhaps soon and they don’t want to say anything now. The new Otus is conspicuous by its absence.
Great blog by Ming Thein on his visit to Zeiss, Germany.
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/09/12/a-visit-to-zeiss-and-thoughts-on-the-milvus-line/ (http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/09/12/a-visit-to-zeiss-and-thoughts-on-the-milvus-line/)
I read the article - including the comment section. Ming Thein stated that he can't say anything about any upcoming Otus lenses - even if he did know anything. So one way or another the silence is due to a NDA. And why should Zeiss diminish the PR effect of its new Milvus line by announcing another Otus?!
Further down the comment section Thein writes that quality control of Otus production could be very demanding and a logistical challenge due to Zeiss' high Otus quality standards.
Make your own guess about these statements... ;)
At least for me the Milvus line and the future of ZF.2 lenses is more interesting than another Otus "brick". I don't like the way the two new optics are headed: two more heavy fast lenses. Is there no demand for slower (= lighter) high quality lenses?
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Is there no demand for slower (= lighter) high quality lenses?
Agree that there should be!
I make some good use of f/4 lenses. Would like to see that option more widely available.
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You guys should join the Leica M family
You would love the 24mm 3.8 and the many other Leica M gems!
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I for sure would enjoy having that Leica Monochrom !!
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I would already be there, except the Leica finder is no-go for me. I can't see the framelines wider than about 50mm with glasses on, and taking them on and off doesn't work for me. One would think that the finder could have a larger hole to look through, but not so far!