NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Birna Rørslett on June 06, 2023, 14:22:35
-
Earlier today, I was stuck in the middle of nowhere with a non-functional Viltrox 13mm f/1.4 lens on my Z fc. I had just upgraded firmware on the camera from 1.30 to 1.40. The camera simply did not recognise the lens and would not allow AF.
When I, frustrated and annoyed, returned home I rapidly found this was an issue with the latest firmware for Nikon Z fc, Z 30, and probably Z50 as well. The issue affected all my Viltrox lenses: 13/1.4, 23/1.4, and 56/1.4.
Thus my advice is: stick to your current firmware for these cameras if you use, or plan to use, any third-party lenses with electronic lens-camera communication. NB: this does not apply to the Voigtländer Z-mount lenses. As Cosina/Voigtländer apparently co-operate to use official Nikon technology, I got a sneaking feeling that Nikon silently have tried to pull the rug under other third-party offerings??
For Z 30: firmware 1.00 is OK, 1.10 is not.
For Z fc: firmware 1.30 is OK, 1.40 is not
I no longer have the Z 50 so cannot comment on that model.
Nikon immediately drops earlier firmware versions for downloading once the latest firmware is announced. However, either save the .bin file from an earlier camera upgrade, or get the required firmware from independent sites (do a quick search on the 'net).
-
yes, it's very possible in that way.
when something is working , no need to upgrade.
you can wait that Viltrox to upgrade the lens firmware ;D
-
I downgraded my Z fc to firmware 1.30 and now everything is ship-shape again.
It is a breeze to downgrade the firmware by the way. Just put the .bin file into the root directory of a SD card and select 'upgrade' in the firmware menu. You will be asked to allow "upgrade" from 1.40-> 1.30 (for the Z fc). Do ensure any existing 1.40 .bin file is removed from the card first.
-
It is what I warned you, ladies and gentlemen, about 2 years ago. After the pre-last update to my Z7, it stopped focusing on my Tammy 24-70/2.8. Zero reaction, as usual. Pretty understandable, why. LZ
-
Thanks for warning Birna; certainly to free the 24/1.7 from competition.
-
Unfortunately, that seems to prove that the compatibility of Viltrox AF lenses to the Nikon Z mount was the result of the reverse-engineering, not the official license.
-
Unfortunately, that seems to prove that the compatibility of Viltrox AF lenses to the Nikon Z mount was the result of the reverse-engineering, not the official license.
I never was in doubt about that .... however, the Viltrox team did a marvellous job so the Nikon Z bodies happily accepted these lenses, AF was very fast and spot on, and EXIF was complete including the full name of the lens.
For now, I will be careful about any firmware upgrade unless there is a secure manner to reverse it. Meaning at the very least that one should keep [several] copies of the firmware files on local storage media.
Nikon ought to reconsider their policy. When specialised lenses are available for the Z system, more Z cameras can be sold. As long as there is no direct equivalent lens in the current or scheduled Nikon line-up, these third-party items can only enhance the entire Z system. As seen from the user perspective, of course. Any business should consider such aspects.
-
The Viltrox team apparently already has solved the issues created by Nikon's latest firmware upgrade .... I just downloaded their firmware update for my Viltrox lenses. That was responsive action :)
However, the fact that a single third-party maker deals sensible with incompatibility does not avoid the potential pitfalls created by new firmware upgrades from Nikon. So my advice of keeping fallback files for any upgrade that needs to be reversed, still stands.
-
The Viltrox team apparently already has solved the issues created by Nikon's latest firmware upgrade .... I just downloaded their firmware update for my Viltrox lenses. That was responsive action :)
Thank you Birna for the warning and the update.. Have you updated the Zfc firmware to 1.4 again ir just stuck with 1.3 version?
-
That near-sighted attitude by Nikon towards their customers is going to turn against it in the long run...
When I learned that the original Nikon FTZ and FTZ2 were NOT allowing AF to my two Sigma ART F-mount lenses (24/1.4 and 35/1.4), while the Viltrox NFZ was perfectly compatible, guess what I will be buying next in case I need another F-mount to Z body adapter? Not an original Nikon product, for sure!
ciao from Massimo
-
I have both (FTZ, FTZII) and the Sigma ART 20+35F1.4 and had no problems from day one. No FW-Updates required on both sides...
-
Updated firnware on lenses, then Z fc. All is now functional again. No thanks to Nikon, though.
-
I am glad to hear that the issue has been resolved.
Would the Viltrox 13mm it be a good choice for astro-landscape type images?
-
I wonder what type of cable is needed for updating the viltrox lenses cant remember any kind of cable was included with the viltrox lenses?!
-
I wonder what type of cable is needed for updating the viltrox lenses cant remember any kind of cable was included with the viltrox lenses?!
I found that any old cable with the right ends worked.
-
USB-C to the lens.
-
I have both (FTZ, FTZII) and the Sigma ART 20+35F1.4 and had no problems from day one. No FW-Updates required on both sides...
Didn't try all the possible combinations in my possession (Z7, Z6, Zfc), issues emerged on the only one I tried: Z7
Will try the Zfc fo sure
Ciao from Massimo
-
The Viltrox team apparently already has solved the issues created by Nikon's latest firmware upgrade .... I just downloaded their firmware update for my Viltrox lenses. That was responsive action :)
I'm just curious Birna.
For Viltrox to reverse engineer the lens mount & electronics is one thing.
Are you saying they have also created their version of the Nikon firmware to deal with Nikon's other changes?
On the one hand I'm surprised - on the other it indicates Viltrox aren't worried about Nikon getting upset.
(I've no idea whether firmware is normally protected by copyright in the same way "mainstream software" is)
Glad you got your Nikon/Viltrox combos working again :)
-
Didn't try all the possible combinations in my possession (Z7, Z6, Zfc), issues emerged on the only one I tried: Z7
Will try the Zfc fo sure
Ciao from Massimo
Sorry, forgot to mention the cameras: Z7 and Z50
-
...
For Viltrox to reverse engineer the lens mount & electronics is one thing.
...
On the one hand I'm surprised - on the other it indicates Viltrox aren't worried about Nikon getting upset.
(I've no idea whether firmware is normally protected by copyright in the same way "mainstream software" is)
In my past work as an IT professional, sometimes I've snooped over source code at the machine level...
Even the act of snooping over code is sanctioned by law in some jurisdictions.
I remember there was a court case between two of the big IT companies, don't remember exactly which ones but it was companies of the size and power of Apple and Microsoft.
One company had given its IT engineers the task to duplicate the work of a peripheral, but to avoid any copyright infringement they only gave them the specs: it should do this and that, and that and also that, ... No source code given. Naturally they had decompiled the software (to have an exhaustive spec list), but it's impossible to prove they did it... The engineers had to reinvent all the inner workings of the firmware, and of course their implementation did not duplicate the competitor's. Only functionally equal, but the inner workings were different. Still, there was quarrelling over copyright infringement... In the end, court salomonically decided its inability to rule and to prove anyhing conclusive, no refund given to anyone, each company had to pay its own legal expenses...
Possibly the reason why Nikon is not acting (or reluctant to act legally) is because a legal action between Japan and China is goiing to be an endless war, with only expenses and no real winner.
Ciao from Massimo
-
Sorry, forgot to mention the cameras: Z7 and Z50
Done the testing, here are the results:
Cameras: Zfc with latest FW (v.1.40), Z6 with latest FW (v.3.50), Z7 with latest FW (v.3.50); FTZ with latest FW (v.1.10)
Zfc and Z6 with Sigma ART 24mm/1.4 and FTZ: AF works
Z6 with Sigma ART 35mm/1.4 and FTZ: AF works
Zfc with Sigma ART 35mm/1.4 and FTZ: AF does not work
Z7 with Sigma ART 35mm/1.4 or 24mm/1.4 and FTZ: AF does not work
my Sigma ART lenses + NFZ work on all my Nikon Z bodies
The reported FW version from NFZ is: v.1.10
Haven't looked what FW version is installed in the 35mm/1.4, I have the USB base for programming the lens, maybe I'll look up if there's a FW upgrade.
Ciao from Massimo
-
Viltrox only listed "camera compatibility" as the reason for their firmware upgrade. Thus I suspect they had discovered what Nikon changed, and made the required counter measures.
-
Done the testing, here are the results:
my Sigma ART lenses + NFZ work on all my Nikon Z bodies
The reported FW version from NFZ is: v.1.10
Haven't looked what FW version is installed in the 35mm/1.4, I have the USB base for programming the lens, maybe I'll look up if there's a FW upgrade.
Ciao from Massimo
Have you noticed any performance differences with the FTZ vs NFZ? am thinking of getting a second adaptor but with a tripod collar similar to FTZ 1.
-
Updated the Viltrox 13mm f/1.4 with firmware 1.03 the Nikon Z fc doesnt recognize the lens nor does it shutter release have no problems with Viltrox 23/1.4 nor 56/1.4. I should try downgrading the firmware on the Z fc to 1.30!
Must be a way to downgrade firmware? Actually lens does work on the z7_2 with the latest firmware 1.5.
-
My bad sorry noticed there is new firmware, 1.04, for the viltrox 13/1.4, OK now!
-
Have you noticed any performance differences with the FTZ vs NFZ? am thinking of getting a second adaptor but with a tripod collar similar to FTZ 1.
The performance differences are obvious:
with NFZ all my lenses work, unlike with FTZ (see previous messages)
NFZ weighs 10 grams more than FTZ-1 (with caps, 155g vs 145g), possibly on account of a very effective black velvet lining inside the tube which completely blocks internal reflections.
BTW, NFZ has a tripod collar like FTZ-1, and a flat base like FTZ-1
Ciao from Massimo