NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Zang on November 29, 2022, 14:20:09

Title: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on November 29, 2022, 14:20:09
Last night, I decided to overhaul my 85mm f2. This time, I started doing in dark, meaning doing no research upfront. Surprisingly, the lens is pretty easy for guesswork. After opening the back and some assessment, you'll know already how to work with the lens. I like its clear and simple design. My lens actually does not require cleaning, it is just me getting bored :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on November 30, 2022, 14:33:52
Updates: even though, the lens did not have signs for cleaning need, it got a few benefits from doing so:

- I found oil in a few places where I do not expect it to be (like under the focus scale ring, chrome ring and more).
- Focusing is a bit smoother now.
- I bent the aperture click metal sheet (not sure how to call it properly) to adjust the aperture ring movement to my taste.
- I could thoroughly wash the focusing rubber without a need of removing it from the ring.

Like many other primes, I did not have chances to use 85/2 a lot. Here is a few test shots after the lens was assembled.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on November 30, 2022, 21:58:04
The AIS 85/2 was one of the first Nikkors I bought. It was a second hand lens but like new. This was in the 1990s when people were upgrading to AF cameras and lenses. It had a tight spot in the focus range so I had it serviced, after that it was and remains one of the smoothest focusing lenses I own. At first the focal length felt odd to me, after using a standard 50mm lens the narrower field of view felt very restrictive, but I have come to appreciate and love short telephoto lenses.

Optically this lens is very good. The AI version has the same optics and some reviewers say it has low contrast, designed to be more flattering for portraiture but less good for general photography. Maybe Nikon changed the coatings with the AIS version as I find the contrast and colour rendition the same other Nikkors from the same era. I remember being impressed at how sharp it is even wide open, it is probably the first lens I had that I was comfortable shooting at full aperture, although I usually stop down a little. Compared to my AI 105/2.5 the entrance pupil is almost identical to the so it has the same ability to throw backgrounds out of focus, but with a wider field of view. The background rendition is not quite as smooth and with straight-edge aperture blades the bokeh is not as quite as rounded as the 105/2.5, but it still a good portrait lens. The shorter focal length combined with the 2/3 stop faster aperture means it has a one-stop advantage when shooting hand-held in low light. It's an amazingly compact lens, much smaller than the previous pre-AI 85/1.8 version and the AF lenses which came later. Outwardly, I think it is a very well proportioned lens, one of the more attractive-looking lenses in my kit.

I haven't used this lens much recently but I still have a soft spot for it. It has only minor deficiencies - the straight-edge aperture ring (which produce wonderful diffraction stars) and slightly harder background rendition, and it would be nice if it focused a little closer than 0.85m. I'm sure modern lenses with newer coatings and ED glass would be clinically sharper, but it is still capable of producing great images.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 01, 2022, 02:24:16
Thank you Roland for sharing your story and I am glad you like the lens. For long time, I was reluctant to buy this after reading Bjorn's average rating for the lens. I then found a fresh looking copy for 150 CAD about 5 years ago and decided to give it a try and I immediately fell in love with it. My impression was exactly like yours. I like the look, the size, the angle of view and I found the lens good enough wide open.

Checking again, mine is AI but not AI-S :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 01, 2022, 08:11:23
The 50/1.7 Rokkor may also be a nice lens on a Nikon Z body?

I made a test many years ago where I short 85/2, 85/1.8 HC, 80/2.8, AF 85/1.4D at same target and could not see any lack of performance using the 85/2. But I have never used it in the field.
In the field I have always used the 85/1.8 HC which I like very much. I have special feelings for that lens. Maybe I should try it on my Z-body!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 01, 2022, 21:24:41
I tried the Rokkor. It is OK but nothing stands out.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Snoogly on December 02, 2022, 04:54:19
A recent comparison

https://youtu.be/fC_vQe3q0dE
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 02, 2022, 18:36:58
A recent comparison

https://youtu.be/fC_vQe3q0dE

Thanks! Are you the reviewer? :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Snoogly on December 02, 2022, 20:39:41
Not me!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 02, 2022, 23:58:25
It is very easy to hear that the reviewer is Danish :-)
The English "accent" is very "Danish".

It could be interesting to know if AI-lens was focused for the corners or it was focused for the center when looking at the corners. Often these vintage nikkors is not 100% flat field at close distances?

Regarding focus breathing I watched a video about a very expensive lens for movie camera. They solved it by implementing a small zoom. So, when focusing the lens also zoomed a bit to compensate for the breathing.
Is there another way to solve this?
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 03, 2022, 00:43:09
Not me!

:D I was hopping to see/hear a real NG member :D
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 03, 2022, 00:48:14
It is very easy to hear that the reviewer is Danish :-)
The English "accent" is very "Danish".

It could be interesting to know if AI-lens was focused for the corners or it was focused for the center when looking at the corners. Often these vintage nikkors is not 100% flat field at close distances?

Regarding focus breathing I watched a video about a very expensive lens for movie camera. They solved it by implementing a small zoom. So, when focusing the lens also zoomed a bit to compensate for the breathing.
Is there another way to solve this?

:D I have Vietnamese background but my English accent is actually Polish :D

That zooming in those movie lenses is kind of cheating! I heard about a similar story for constant aperture where they actually change the pupil during zomoing.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 05, 2022, 00:54:54
Regarding focus breathing I watched a video about a very expensive lens for movie camera. They solved it by implementing a small zoom. So, when focusing the lens also zoomed a bit to compensate for the breathing.
Is there another way to solve this?
When unit-focusing lenses like the AI 85/2 are focused close the entire optical unit moves away from the image plane, the projected image enlarges (breaths) and the field of view narrows in proportion to the distance the lens is extended. To prevent focus breathing, the focal length needs to reduce as the lens focuses closer so the field of view remains constant. Internal focusing on many lenses has the side-effect of reducing the focal length when focusing closer, so I imagine the focus breathing is also reduced.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 05, 2022, 08:28:02
Yes, the 50/1.8 S has not much focus breathing, and this is a lens using internal focusing. But 85/1.8 S which also has internal focusing was reported to have as much focus breathing as the AI 85/2?
Do you think 50/1.8 S zooms a bit to avoid much breathing?
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Hans_S on December 10, 2022, 11:58:16
Zang, you have convinced my to get my AI version out of storage. Here's last nights misty moon...
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 12, 2022, 03:45:59
Zang, you have convinced my to get my AI version out of storage. Here's last nights misty moon...

Thank you Hans for sharing the picture. It looks like a tranquil and charming night. I know I said AI-S but I think my lens is AI as well. As I use my manual lenses on mirror less cameras, there is no difference in using AI-S and AI except those obvious differences from the lens versions themselves.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Hans_S on December 12, 2022, 08:50:31
My preference is for the 255 degree focus throw of the AI vs the 170 of the AIS...not that I had a choice when I bought the AI new waaay back in 1978!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 12, 2022, 16:12:51
My preference is for the 255 degree focus throw of the AI vs the 170 of the AIS...not that I had a choice when I bought the AI new waaay back in 1978!

Right, I forgot about the focus throw. Being accustomed to Contax lenses in the past, I also prefer the long throws. That was the reason I sold 24mm AIS and kept the AI.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 12, 2022, 20:41:15
I prefer the longer focus throw of the AI 105/2.5 compared to the AI-S version (170° vs 140°). But in the case of the 85/2, the focus throw of the AI version is too long, it is very slow to focus. The AI-S version at 170° is the same as the AI 105/2.5, it works well for me. I also think the AI-S 85/2 is a nicer looking lens :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 12, 2022, 21:14:27
I prefer the longer focus throw of the AI 105/2.5 compared to the AI-S version (170° vs 140°). But in the case of the 85/2, the focus throw of the AI version is too long, it is very slow to focus. The AI-S version at 170° is the same as the AI 105/2.5, it works well for me. I also think the AI-S 85/2 is a nicer looking lens :)

The 'extra throw' mostly goes to the close up region as the focusing scale is not linear so I feel OK with 270° as well :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 12, 2022, 23:00:21
It's actually because the focusing is linear that the focus scale is compressed near infinity and more generous at close range. This is can be a problem for macro lenses which cover a much greater focus range in the same focus throw, the range near infinity becomes very short. The only way around this would be to replace the linear helical focus action with a non-linear focus cam. The gradient of the cam would be shallow near infinity so the focus scale stretched out, and would become steeper at close range. However, focus cams are harder to make, can be less accurate and more likely to have some slack in the focus action, so are not often used, although cams are common in zoom lenses.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 12, 2022, 23:10:16
I checked how many and which versions of the 85/2 I have. Seems I only have an AI and and AIS version.
Think I like the AI-version a little bit better than the AIS. I think it looks very nice to have the DOF scale at the black barrel?
Probably at more expensive solution than just at the white alu-ring?

AI has 20m before infinity and AIS has 10m. Both are nice lenses. 
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 13, 2022, 04:04:34
I checked how many and which versions of the 85/2 I have. Seems I only have an AI and and AIS version.
Only? That's all there is, no other 85/2 versions in F mount :o :)

Quote
Think I like the AI-version a little bit better than the AIS. I think it looks very nice to have the DOF scale at the black barrel?
Probably at more expensive solution than just at the white alu-ring?
Painting on black costs probably costs the same as painting on the alu-ring, but it is easier to see. Nikon standardized the styling of the AI-S version by having the DOF scale on the alu-ring for most lenses. This takes less space on the barrel, which is useful for compact lenses like the 20/3.5 and 50/1.8. Not quite as easy to read, and less spread out too because of the shorter focus throw, but to be honest it never bothered me :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 13, 2022, 07:57:34
Only? That's all there is, no other 85/2 versions in F mount :o :)
Painting on black costs probably costs the same as painting on the alu-ring, but it is easier to see. Nikon standardized the styling of the AI-S version by having the DOF scale on the alu-ring for most lenses. This takes less space on the barrel, which is useful for compact lenses like the 20/3.5 and 50/1.8. Not quite as easy to read, and less spread out too because of the shorter focus throw, but to be honest it never bothered me :)

Then they also changed colors for the DOF lines. Pink and Green disappeared and orange came instead. Yellow was also used on AI's. I can see that on my 105/2.5 where blue, yellow, pink, green were used.
Maybe green disappeared as some can't see difference between green and blue?

Then there is the red dot for infrared infinity. On both lenses it is placed at the 8-line.
I wonder if the new Z-lenses are so well corrected that the red dot would be placed at infinity or very close?
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 13, 2022, 08:07:24
I can see that pink color were still used on other AIS lenses and brown in some cases.
Maybe a bit too "nerdy" to discuss such differences :-)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 13, 2022, 08:39:54
I observed another difference between the AI and AIS version that the focus ring on AI version moves a lot forward when focused to close distance. So the long DOF lines are needed.
The AIS focus ring almost stays close to the white alu-ring so scale is still usable at close distance. The helicoid design must be quite different?   .....a lot more different than just 170 vs. 270 degree?
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 13, 2022, 15:23:31
My copy is an Ai, but I don't think it is good at f2.
Was just out in the cold sunny weather to check.
The 2 pictures are taken without changing the focus, only the aperture is changed between f2.0 and f8.
A Df was used.
I have seen this behavior before, sp was just checking ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 13, 2022, 20:02:13
It looks soft at f/2. I was expecting something better.
It is dark here now so I just tired an indoor shot at closest distance (0.85m) at f/2 on Z50. Lens is the AI-version.
It is handhold moving in and out to get best focus. Think I hit it ok. It is relative sharp but contrast will probably be better stopped down.
A 100% crop is also attached. After the test Bent made I expected worse. Now 0.85m and close to infinity can be very different.

Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 13, 2022, 20:33:21
Strange so many different opinions about this lens?

http://www.mflenses.com/nikon-nikkor-85mm-f2-ais-lens-review.html (http://www.mflenses.com/nikon-nikkor-85mm-f2-ais-lens-review.html)

From bad to superb. Why is that?
If we take it at f/2. Is it the distance to subject?
Bent's image looks bad and my image looks good (I would say).
I am sure my image would look better at f/4 - f/5.6.
Some day I will bring it out in daylight and take more images.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 13, 2022, 22:02:32
Maybe it will perform better for portraits will try later.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 13, 2022, 23:42:23
I observed another difference between the AI and AIS version that the focus ring on AI version moves a lot forward when focused to close distance. So the long DOF lines are needed.
DOF lines of AI and earlier lenses start with the narrowest DOF line pairs and progress outwards. They are usually in this order: green, red, yellow, blue, orange

AI-S lenses start with the widest DOF line pairs (smallest aperture) and progress inwards: orange, blue, yellow, brown.

The reason for the change is that AI-S lenses are designed to work in shutter priority and program modes. The bright orange minimum aperture reminds the photographer to use this setting when shooting in these modes, otherwise the full range of aperture settings won't be available to the camera.

Also note the AI-S DOF scale has at most 4 line pairs while earlier versions can have up to 5. This is because the focus throw of AI-S lenses is shorter, so there is less room for the DOF scale.

Quote
The AIS focus ring almost stays close to the white alu-ring so scale is still usable at close distance. The helicoid design must be quite different?   .....a lot more different than just 170 vs. 270 degree?
The focus ring has two helixes internally, one attached to the lower barrel with the aperture ring and lens mount, the other to the upper barrel with the optical unit and front filter threads. On many AI and earlier lenses the gradient of the two helixes is about the same, so when the focus ring is turned, about half the extension occurs with the focus ring, and half with the upper barrel. With most AI-S lenses, the gradient is different. The lower helix has a very low gradient, so the focus ring hardly moves forward at all, most of the extension occurs with the upper barrel.

This is not directly related to the focus throw. For example, the AI and AI-S 200/4 have the same focus throw, even though they have different types of focus ring. Also, the AI and AI-S both use the AI-S style of focus ring but have different focus thows.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 13, 2022, 23:44:35
My copy is an Ai, but I don't think it is good at f2.
That looks out of focus. Maybe your lens doesn't quite focus to infinity, or do you see the same behavior at middle and closer distances?
My AI-S copy is sharp even at f/2.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 14, 2022, 00:42:28
It's actually because the focusing is linear that the focus scale is compressed near infinity and more generous at close range. This is can be a problem for macro lenses which cover a much greater focus range in the same focus throw, the range near infinity becomes very short. The only way around this would be to replace the linear helical focus action with a non-linear focus cam. The gradient of the cam would be shallow near infinity so the focus scale stretched out, and would become steeper at close range. However, focus cams are harder to make, can be less accurate and more likely to have some slack in the focus action, so are not often used, although cams are common in zoom lenses.

I am sure the focusing (or assembly movement) is linear. By nonlinear I meant the scale only meaning 10m is not twice the turning of 5m :) My point was when we add more throw, the close range usually benefits from it more than the far distance one. In my Zeiss Makro-Planar 100mm focusing from MFD to 3m takes almost the entire 345* and the rage from from 3m to infinity only takes the rest of 15* :D
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 14, 2022, 08:52:07
DOF lines of AI and earlier lenses start with the narrowest DOF line pairs and progress outwards. They are usually in this order: green, red, yellow, blue, orange

AI-S lenses start with the widest DOF line pairs (smallest aperture) and progress inwards: orange, blue, yellow, brown.

The reason for the change is that AI-S lenses are designed to work in shutter priority and program modes. The bright orange minimum aperture reminds the photographer to use this setting when shooting in these modes, otherwise the full range of aperture settings won't be available to the camera.

Also note the AI-S DOF scale has at most 4 line pairs while earlier versions can have up to 5. This is because the focus throw of AI-S lenses is shorter, so there is less room for the DOF scale.
The focus ring has two helixes internally, one attached to the lower barrel with the aperture ring and lens mount, the other to the upper barrel with the optical unit and front filter threads. On many AI and earlier lenses the gradient of the two helixes is about the same, so when the focus ring is turned, about half the extension occurs with the focus ring, and half with the upper barrel. With most AI-S lenses, the gradient is different. The lower helix has a very low gradient, so the focus ring hardly moves forward at all, most of the extension occurs with the upper barrel.

This is not directly related to the focus throw. For example, the AI and AI-S 200/4 have the same focus throw, even though they have different types of focus ring. Also, the AI and AI-S both use the AI-S style of focus ring but have different focus thows.

Thank you for the explanation.

Also the AI vs. AI-S version of the 85/2 moves the lens unit same distance which is expected as the lens design is same.
As the focus ring does not move much with AI-S lenses there are no needs for the long DOF lines so it makes sense with the short lines on alu-ring.
It makes sense to always have same color (orange) on smallest aperture on AI-S lenses.
On AI-lenses the "red" aperture color looks "pink" to my eyes :-)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 14, 2022, 18:35:59
Correction, I meant to say: This is not directly related to the focus throw. For example, the AI and AI-S 200/4 have the same focus throw, even though they have different types of focus ring. Also, the AI and AI-S 50/1.4 both use the AI-S style of focus ring but have different focus thows.

And yes, the colours of the AI and AI-S DOF scales are a bit different. On AI and earlier lenses the red is more pinkish and the orange is dull. On on AI-S lenses the red is brighter and the orange is is almost fluoro in some cases :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on December 17, 2022, 10:39:57
I have now tried my 85 f2.0 Ai on my Z6, as I might get better focus AF on long distance.
The trees in the distance look a bit more focused than om my previous attempts with th Df.
I also tried on more close up.
Z6
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 17, 2022, 11:37:39
I just opened the door and shot some images with AI 85/2 at f/2 using Z50.
It does quite well at f/2.
A couple of test images with 100% crops.
Still strange with those very different reviews in the past.
Maybe the cropped sensor makes vintage lenses look much better (apart from blurring the background).

Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 17, 2022, 12:59:10
One more where I focused at the red waste containers for batteries.
If sensor had more resolution the very small lettering may be readable.

Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Robert Camfield on December 18, 2022, 02:17:11
One more where I focused at the red waste containers for batteries.
If sensor had more resolution the very small lettering may be readable.

For a given focusing distance and defined aperture, observed resolution is largely determined by image size and optical qualities. Here, resolution delivered by the 85mm f2.0 is quite good, particularly for f2.0...which affirms Roland's comments. As mentioned, Nikon shortened focus throw for many of the prime AIS lenses...like many, I generally prefer the longer throw AIs. An exception is the 2nd generation (5/5) 35mm f2.8 AI lens: the exceptionally short throw was extended for AIS counterpart.

The tidy dimensions of the 85 f2.0 AI/AIS certainly makes for an attractive package though my experience conforms to the consensus view: image quality is disappointing...perhaps there's considerable sample variation for Nikon's 2nd generation 85s.

Robert

Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 18, 2022, 12:07:51
I have only one sample more which is the AIS version. I tried it a few minutes ago with similar test targets as with AI version at f/2. Today the light was stronger so faster shutter speeds.
Performance seems similar using the AIS. A couple of images with 100% crop. The last one I focused at chimney.

Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 18, 2022, 12:44:19
To have something to compare with (just for fun) I tried an old Nikkor-H 85/1.8 with similar test target. First image at f/1.8 and second at f/2. It "clears up" a bit from 1.8 to 2.
This lens has always been my favorite. I have an AI'ed H-C version which I have used a lot with film. But here the single coated version is used.

Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Robert Camfield on December 18, 2022, 18:28:14
To have something to compare with (just for fun) I tried an old Nikkor-H 85/1.8 with similar test target. First image at f/1.8 and second at f/2. It "clears up" a bit from 1.8 to 2.
This lens has always been my favorite. I have an AI'ed H-C version which I have used a lot with film. But here the single coated version is used.

The 85 F1.8 H C appears to obtain higher resolution than either of the 85 F2.0s, thus confirming the consensus view.  Thanks for comparisons...Robert
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Dogman on December 19, 2022, 14:56:12
Maybe it was just my particular lenses but in the 1980s I shot with both Nikon and Leicas.  I had a new Leitz 90mm Summicron I never learned to like very much.  When compared to my old 85/1.8 Nikkor, the Summicron was softer and had less resolution and contrast.  I sold the Summicron but kept the 85mm Nikkor until it was worn so badly it was coming apart.  I never tried the ƒ/2 version but I have the wonderful (big and heavy) 85/1.4D that I love dearly.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: MEPER on December 23, 2022, 15:52:01
As I also have the AF 85/1.4D I made similar images today at 1.4 and also at 2.0.
Even that it can't autofocus the aperture can be set from camera and there is focus confirmation from the focus points (turning from red to green). It seems accurate.
My lens has a bit of dust between the two rear lenses. I wonder it if could be a DIY-job to blow it away. The rear lens just looks like a flat glass surface.

Even with a bit of dust this lens seems to do quite well.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 31, 2022, 02:36:48
I compared my AIS 85/2 (first) with my AI converted K 85/1.8 (second). At medium-close distance it does show less contrast and more bleeding of highlights into dark areas. The 85/1.8 may be also a little sharper, which is surprising since it is an older design. Maybe the old reviews are right, the 85/2 was intentionally given lower contrast to make it more flattering for portraiture.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 31, 2022, 02:45:33
In the same picture, the situation reverses towards the outer parts of the image. The 85/2 has more even rendition across the frame while the 85/1.8 is sharper centrally but softer towards the corners. That's shooting a relatively flat subject. The 85/1.8 may have more field curvature so may be better than my test shows when photographing a 3D subject.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Roland Vink on December 31, 2022, 03:03:03
Here is a final comparison near infinity. Again, the AIS 85/2 is first, the K 85/1.8 is second. Here both lenses perform similarly wide open in terms of sharpness, but in high contrast the 85/1.8 shows a little more flare and purple fringing.

The differences between the two lenses disappear rapidly on stopping down. Even by f/2.8 it is difficult to tell the difference between them. The flare that is evident wide open is largely gone and there is a boost to resolution. I prefer the 85/2 lens, the 85/1.8 is heavier and bulkier and the 1/3 difference is speed doesn't make any practical difference to me. I also prefer the 7-blade aperture of the 85/2, it looks more organic than the hexagonal opening of the 85/1.8 (why Nikon retained the 6-blade aperture for the K version is a mystery, both the 28/3.5 and 24/2.8 were both upgraded to 7 aperture blades with the K version, you'd think that a portrait lens like the 85/1.8 would have more attention given to the background rendition)
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Zang on December 31, 2022, 06:06:16
I have learned so many things about the lens, thanks guys. From what I remember, the lens is pretty good wide open at portrait distances. It is not so good wide open at longer distances, though. I did not use it quite often, so I might try it again at f2.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S
Post by: Gerhard2006 on March 17, 2023, 22:37:31
I loved this lens for a number of years because of its small size end it’s nice rendering of portraits. Eventually I sold it and bought an 85 1.8 AF lens which has a nine bladed aperture so the out of focus highlights look much better on this lens than the 85F2. It was my first auto focus lens before I even had an auto focus camera. I still use the AF 85 1.8 on my D 700 and it focusses in very little light and I think it’s a little bit sharper than the 85 F2 . The out of focus highlights from 2.8 onward really show the aperture blades on this older lens which this reviewer points out from Denmark. He also mentions that the bokeh of the 85 1.8 AFS is nicer but sun stars from the 85 F2 are nicer. So take your pick, every lens is a different tool in your bag. Like my 135 F2 Ais lens which is soft below 10’ at close distances but very sharp beyond 10’ with beautiful bokeh. Like having 2 lenses in one. There are other Nikkors that also exhibit this character. Interesting thread thanks for sharing. Regards Gerry