NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: RobOK on January 21, 2022, 21:34:12
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I have been enjoying my Z6 tremendously and have not felt a need to move to the Z6 II. I may at some point go higher megapixel to a Z7.
Has Nikon announced (or rumored) the mark III versions? Are they expected this year?
Same question on the Z50. I like the idea of a light walkabout and tried out the Zfc version of the Z50 but I did not like the lack of grip. I love my Df but liked it better with a grip added.
So are there any plans on the next iterations of these bodies?
Thanks!
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Current (semi) pro bodies usually have a 2 year lifecycle so I expect the MKIII models to be announced in Q3 this year and available on the market in Q4:
- Z6/7: August 2018
- Z6/7II: Oct 2020
- Z6/7III: Q3 2022??
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Thanks Jan....
Any speculation on the Z6 III and what it might offer?
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Thanks Jan....
Any speculation on the Z6 III and what it might offer?
I'd expect that Nikon will try to bring the capabilities like subject tracking further across the range of cameras. To do this there are some architectural changes to the electronics needed (the parallel viewer/storage pipeline for example) and likely new sensors, but once they have that, the software side can be amortized across the full line of cameras. Z6 was originally positioned as video capable with the Z7 as high res stills. This may persist and maybe Z6 gets video enhancements as well - and maybe body changes somewhat to support better cooling for the inevitable increase in heat. I think these changes are likely not visible on the surface.
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Thanks Jan....
Any speculation on the Z6 III and what it might offer?
Pure speculation but highly likely:
- Expeed 7 processor from the Z9 for faster processing and handling speeds
- 24-33MP BMS sensor (Sony a7IV went to 33MP)
- Bird eye, animal, human, car, etc tracking
- Much faster autofocus but slower (tracking) than the Z9 because of the non stacked sensor
- Higher framerate at 14bit RAW due to faster processor
- Even longer exposures than the 15 minute limit without a remote (personal wish)
- Slight higher DR
- Even cleaner noise performance when they stick with 24MP or equal to the current models if they bump the MP’s
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One thing I would like to have on my next Z camera is the UI from the D500/D8xx, that is the "Pro" UI.
The Z6 serves me well, but I don't like the "U" user modes.
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This is my pure speculation:
The next Z7III may share the same sensor used in Z9 and have no mechanical shutter. If Tower Semiconductor would develop a lower cost, lower pixel (around 30MP?) sensor using the same technology, Z6III could also go without the mechanical shutter. Z5II might be a virtual Z6II, the only model that will still have a mechanical shutter.
Zfc is practically a Z50 derivative with the UI of a film camera, so, there isn't really anything new about the APS-C models at this moment.
The only remaining mechanical part in any full-frame camera is IBIS which may stay for a while, because you would need a larger sensor to enable the fully electronic image stabilization.
I'm not SIGMA fan boy, but, their fp model turned to be a radically forward thinking camera to eliminate all the mechanical parts: the shutter, the IBIS, the mirror of course, and even the dust reduction!
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Something with more (70+) megapixels would be nice. 4096 bye bye's richard
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I don’t think the Z7III will have a stacked sensor until those sensors can rival the ultra clean images of the BMS sensor in the current Z7 range. With different sensor technologies the Z7III can complement the Z9 or be an excellent slow action camera on its own.
The Z6III might get a stacked sensor but it kind of depends how Nikon wants to counter the Sony a9M2 which has a 24MP stacked sensor, they might choose to beef up the Z6, introduce a Z8 model to counter both the a9M2 and the Canon R3 or just completely ignore the segment of low res high speed cameras the D6 used to sit in.
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A Z6III to rival the A9II and R3 will be the perfect for my needs. Silent, fast, no or little rolling shutter, no blackout, video up to 4k... Exactly what I'm doing with the Z6 right now. A strong step up.
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You may be proved correct, on the future of the Z7 III. Nikon already many of the core parts for more high end cameras, including: EXPEED7 processor, Z9 AF and EVF code, CFExpress media is now the new standard. The company has no option but to prioritize high performance cameras at both ends of its Z System: DX (Z90) and FX with high resolution sensors and/or Z9 spec AF.
The Z50, Zfc and Z5 are already out in the world to grow up its client base. The question at the crux of Nikon's future cameras is how quickly will they upgrade their "primary core MILCs" to stacked-sensors to handle the Z9 blackout free EVF and AF (i.e. Z7, then perhaps Z6)? This may be too costly, but it's one way way to sell more Z9 sensors - so the Z7 is more likely to go stacked first.
The Z90 is other question mark as to what is next. The incentive for the Z90 is the impatience over lack of a D500 "equivalent", and a more affordable MILC for action genres, which can also deliver excellent 4K video. Nikon must have known the future trends for DX many months ago. Thus Z90 must be an urgent priority, because Fujifilm already has its flagship X-H2 due in 2022, possibly in May. Uncertainty whether its sensor is 24mp or 40mp but it is definitely stacked
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/fujifilm-x-h2-heres-what-we-know-what-we-think-we-know-and-what-we-hope-for
This is my pure speculation:
The next Z7III may share the same sensor used in Z9 and have no mechanical shutter. If Tower Semiconductor would develop a lower cost, lower pixel (around 30MP?) sensor using the same technology, Z6III could also go without the mechanical shutter. Z5II might be a virtual Z6II, the only model that will still have a mechanical shutter.
Zfc is practically a Z50 derivative with the UI of a film camera, so, there isn't really anything new about the APS-C models at this moment.
The only remaining mechanical part in any full-frame camera is IBIS which may stay for a while, because you would need a larger sensor to enable the fully electronic image stabilization.
I'm not SIGMA fan boy, but, their fp model turned to be a radically forward thinking camera to eliminate all the mechanical parts: the shutter, the IBIS, the mirror of course, and even the dust reduction!
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And sadly no Z Df !!
I’m on a Z6 now, will see if the Z6 II goes on sale prior to a III release. Or pick up a refurb/ lightly used Z6 II.
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And sadly no Z Df !!
Its a common marketing strategy to first release something which will excite people before releasing what people really want so they can sell two devices in a short period of time.
I think the entry level Zfc lured in a lot of the younger generation to the Zee platform but also sold well with the older generation whom actually would like to see FX Zf and an adapter better suited for the older Nikon F lenses.
Same with the tele lenses, Sony sold a lot of the 100-400mm as it was the only option back then but once the 200-600mm was launched a lot moved to the longer tele. Nikon is following the same strategy now, first the 100-400 and 400/2.8 with 200-600mm, 600/4 and 800/6.3 being released later with the only difference that Nikon does forecast which lenses are coming so you at least know which options will become available in the future.
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I was hoping someone would inject the subject of more Retro-Z cameras i.e. Zf. The Zfc is not much more than a Z50 with some extra features, but different skin. Nikon could repeat this with a Z6 and sell more sensors in a Zf using the same strategy.
The gap of a better FTZd adapter to revive the legacy of Nikon F Mount is a festering topic. This concern keeps bobbing to the surface. Even if Nikon have decided it is not worthwhile making a compact FTZd adapter, they should be able to design a dedicated grip for the Zf, Z6 and Z7 series etc with a built in AF motor and also fit 2 batteries. Many of us shooting a mixed F and Z system want to keep unique AFD optics (e.g 85 f1.4AFD, DC primes, 180 f2.8AFD, 70-180 Micro-Nikkor and many more)
Its a common marketing strategy to first release something which will excite people before releasing what people really want so they can sell two devices in a short period of time.
I think the entry level Zf lured in a lot of the younger generation to the Zee platform but also sold well with the older generation whom actually would like to see Fx Zf and an adapter better suited for the older Nikon F lenses.
Same with the tele lenses, Sony sold a lot of the 100-400mm as it was the only option back then but once the 200-600mm was launched a lot moved to the longer tele. Nikon is following the same strategy now, first the 100-400 and 400/2.8 with 200-600mm, 600/4 and 800/6.3 being released later with the only difference that Nikon does forecast which lenses are coming so you at least know which options will become available in the future.
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Well it took Sony a 7 years to deliver the compact LA-EA5 adapter with AF drive so by the time it was finally available there were plenty native FE lenses available. It replaced the LA-EA4 which was a monster as it also had a builtin translucent mirror and phase detect AF sensors as originally the mirrorless camera mainly relied on contrast AF.
The announcement details on DPR, attached some of the images from their article:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support
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The width of the Sony adapter is 66mm, minus mount 46mm leaves 20/2 = 10mm.
Nikon FTZ is 70mm, minus mount 55mm lease 15/2 = 7,5mm.
So less space in the Nikon adapter for the necessary cogs for screw drive.
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A Z6ii firmware update would be nice :-(
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I'd like to have a high-resolution Z8
And i won't replace my Z6 with a different body as long as aZ6 III does not have a significantly changed control layout (more like Z9 and SLR) and does not get back required features, like changing exposure values in full stops and ISO and exposure correction settings separately
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How about the next new camera having a replaceable sensor?
I've personally removed sensors from digital cameras - not that difficult.
Having a replaceable sensor, one could change the sensor like one changes a lenses. Imagine being able to have a high mp sensor for landscapes, and a medium mp sensor for fast sports/action, and a low mp sensor for low light!
Also, having the ability to replace the sensor when a new type of sensor became available would extend the useful life of your camera.
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How about the next new camera having a replaceable sensor?
I've personally removed sensors from digital cameras - not that difficult.
Having a replaceable sensor, one could change the sensor like one changes a lenses. Imagine being able to have a high mp sensor for landscapes, and a medium mp sensor for fast sports/action, and a low mp sensor for low light!
Also, having the ability to replace the sensor when a new type of sensor became available would extend the useful life of your camera.
More than ever the improvements are in the processor and electronics architecture. Newer sensors require changes which extend beyond the sensor itself. Even things like cooling and vibration stabilization. Nikon is heading towards increased reliability by removing moving parts like shutter and mirror, but considering the small space and complexity of cameras in general, building a body on which you can exchange and upgrade parts is likely to be one of those things which sounds good on paper, but actually isn't when you get down to it.
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I'd like to have a high-resolution Z8
And i won't replace my Z6 with a different body as long as aZ6 III does not have a significantly changed control layout (more like Z9 and SLR) and does not get back required features, like changing exposure values in full stops and ISO and exposure correction settings separately
What does this mean please?
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Ricoh tried this with some of their up market P/S cameras aimed at the tourist sector (and others) where each lens had its own sealed and dedicated sensor and the body was more of a viewing and data handling device.
How about the next new camera having a replaceable sensor?
I've personally removed sensors from digital cameras - not that difficult.
Having a replaceable sensor, one could change the sensor like one changes a lenses. Imagine being able to have a high mp sensor for landscapes, and a medium mp sensor for fast sports/action, and a low mp sensor for low light!
Also, having the ability to replace the sensor when a new type of sensor became available would extend the useful life of your camera.
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What does this mean please?
With the Z6 you can change exposure settings in 1/3 stops or you can change that to 1/2 stops - full stops are not possible
And there is just one setting for everything, may it be chosing aperture or shutter-speed, iso-settings and exposure correction, you can't chose the step sizes separately like it is possible with Nikon SLR.
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With the Z6 you can change exposure settings in 1/3 stops or you can change that to 1/2 stops - full stops are not possible
And there is just one setting for everything, may it be chosing aperture or shutter-speed, iso-settings and exposure correction, you can't chose the step sizes separately like it is possible with Nikon SLR.
I've used my Z6 for years now and never noticed this as a problem. Maybe because I get full stops with manual aperture lenses? 1/3 stops are what I use for exposure compensation.
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I've used my Z6 for years now and never noticed this as a problem. Maybe because I get full stops with manual aperture lenses? 1/3 stops are what I use for exposure compensation.
I use 1/3 stops for Exposure compensation too. But i find it annoying and slow to be forced to change Aperture or ISO-Settings in 1/3 Stops too
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So do I.
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I also prefer one full step for ISO and 1/3 step for shutter speed, aperture and exposure comp. I remember I switched annoyingly between 1/2 and 1/3 when I used Nikon bodies. I can live with 1/2 step for aperture, though.
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Yes one can live with that somehow. But I dont ounderstand why Nikon is making a step back and make impossible what was is possible with SLR and formed habits. Implementing selective settings and giving the full choice between 1, 1/2 and 1/3 is no rocket science and easily can be re-added with a firmware update
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Yes one can live with that somehow. But I dont ounderstand why Nikon is making a step back and make impossible what was is possible with SLR and formed habits. Implementing selective settings and giving the full choice between 1, 1/2 and 1/3 is no rocket science and easily can be re-added with a firmware update
Because if they start with perfect products, there is less incentive for the customers to buy new upgraded models. The customer is never supposed to be completely happy with a current product, in order to ensure there is enough motivation to purchase future products. Once the products reach perfection, they will end the product line and start a new one with a slightly crude implementation.
A less cynical view might be that they want to clean up the menu system of options that many users don't need.
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Well Ikka, for my ancient, narrow mind, you have explained the fate of the Df.
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Sorry to bring up and old thread, perhaps not good form, but I did search....
Have they announced a Z6 III ? A z8 is going to be outside my range (both in money and skill!). As there been an official or unofficial word on the next z6 iteration?
Rob.
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Nothing has been announced yet but we are likely to hear something about new bodies in the next few months.
I too am curious what Nikon will do with a Z6 III. The most obvious upgrades would involve some of the technology from the Z9, but that would need a new sensor.
I am also curious how a Z8 would fit between the Z7 II and the Z9. Another new sensor? Is there room for both a Z7 and a Z8? I suppose there would be if the Z8 had even more megapixels than the Z9. Do we need more?
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"Do we need more [megapixels]?"
Ordinarily, no. Today's models with 36-45MPix sensor for FX suffice most requirements and can be unforgiving for the lenses as well. Plus they ruthlessly expose the photographer's inability to keep the camera steady !!
However, for certain specific applications, yes more MPix is welcome even though we might not use all of them. It's rather about pixel density of the sensor. I would very much like 60-80-100 MPix for the camera on which I put my Rodenstock Heligons. Admittedly an extreme and utterly unhinged example, however exactly what a nerd like yours truly might wish for in the quest for even more nerdy imagery :)
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I too am curious what Nikon will do with a Z6 III. The most obvious upgrades would involve some of the technology from the Z9, but that would need a new sensor.
They could still use the Expeed 7 from the Z9 and subject-recognition algorithms even with the current Z6 II sensor. It would likely improve focusing. However, for fast-moving subjects, photographing silently, and for video when panning or photographing a subject with fast motion, one would benefit from a stacked sensor. The issue with that is how much it would cost? I don't think it's possible to include a stacked full-frame sensor in a 2k€ price class camera at the present time, but of course at a later time in development of manufacturing technology, maybe it would be.
I am also curious how a Z8 would fit between the Z7 II and the Z9. Another new sensor? Is there room for both a Z7 and a Z8? I suppose there would be if the Z8 had even more megapixels than the Z9. Do we need more?
At least when using the 500 PF at f/5.6, EFCS and proper tripod, I find that moire on bird textures (passerines etc.) is commonplace and this is a little annoying. A higher-resolution sensor would allow clean rendering of the correct colours when using high-resolution lenses (which are becoming more and more common as lenses improve).
However, for hand-held use with sloppy technique, perhaps this is not as much of a priority. I have not seen moire in images taken with the 45 MP sensor in hand-held use, but did see it with 36MP. I think 60 MP or 80 MP would make these occurrences less likely and thus this would improve accuracy. However, if such a sensor would have slow read times then people would get distorted bird-in-flight images where the shapes are all warped-up as they would no doubt try to use the electronic shutter due to its silence.