NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: ThomasAdams on August 09, 2021, 22:36:52
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Hello,
I recently purchased a used camera and while the listing said it was in great shape - one thing that was overlooked was the number of dead/stuck/hot pixels. I messaged the seller and we agreed on a partial refund, the camera was in good condition otherwise. I just sent it off today via USPS and I can only hope I get it back sometime soon and that no parts require repair/replacement. I figured I would post my experience with buying an older camera and repair work with Nikon - or I'm excited to get it back and am just very impatient ;D. The camera came with everything like new. The body was in excellent near mint shape, shutter count ~44,000 - missing a screw and I bit of haze behind the rear LCD. I recalled the haze happening with many cameras - don't recall the exact cause or if this was something due to manufacturing or if any cause was determined. My D3 has never had any issue like this. The seller did say that the camera was in storage for over a decade. The 2 batteries hadn't been charged in awhile and while they took a charge - one only got about 3 photos out of it and died.
Part of the reasoning behind this purchase may have been a "return to my past desires" driven, I always wanted the D3x! As an amateur photographer 8,000 USD was a bit out of my price range, much like the story of the Nikkor 200-400mm F4 :P. I sold off many items due to health issues years ago, that combined with the desire to catalog photos, always feeling behind (Feeling of having to capture the family moments) I loss some of the enjoyment I experienced in photography. Without a conscious decision actually being made and like so many others, photography was shelved for awhile as a hobby.
So, a little over $800.00 USD + $200.00 USD repair* (*Unless something needs replaced) and I will finally have my D3x. And for those who may be curious; yes I did get the 200-400 f4 as well but that is another story! More to come...
Regards,
Tom
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There’s a solution for stuck pixels:
Two sensor cleanings in quick succession (setup menu -> clean image sensor -> clean now).
This will permanently map out stuck/hot pixels.
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It’s curious that Nikon still supports the D3X, but not the D4 (in Japan anyway).
Thanks for the stick pixels tip :-)
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Frode,
Thank you for the information and I had ran across that and was unable to locate it in the menu leading to more searching on the web. I believe that started after the D3 and D3x series. The D3s may have had it, but someone would have to confirm.
Snoogly,
Yes, there are many oddities with what they service and what they won't. Perhaps it has to do with parts availability and other factors. I figured if I wanted to keep this - I'd better get it sent in now before it is too late. Depending on how it goes I may send in my D3 - although I can't recall if it's still on the list or not at the moment. It has held up extremely well and has no issues. But I should have it sent in just the same.
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...and I will finally have my D3x.
I am sorry to hear you got a camera that needs repair. It would be nicer if you got the dream camera flawless. How bad are the bad pixels? Are they all over?
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There’s a solution for stuck pixels:
Two sensor cleanings in quick succession (setup menu -> clean image sensor -> clean now).
This will permanently map out stuck/hot pixels.
Is there any message indicating that the hot pixels were mapped out? I think I've tried this on a D300s and that it did not work.
Dave
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I just cleaned the sensor on my D300s five times in rapid succession and I've got six stuck pixels. Six that I saw in a black frame. I thought I had only two, one red and one blue but I have four white and two red.
Do stuck pixels change? Are they heat related? I forgot all about them until I read this thread.
Dave
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Heat increases resistance and can exacerbate the intensity and quantity of hot pixels, for example during long exposures. Did you go into Manual mode and set the ISO to base before doing the sensor clean(s)? I believe noise reduction must also be set to off. As the pixels age, they can die, or get stuck (on). The color corresponds to the pixels that are stuck on and which channels are active (not burnt out). If a pixel is stuck on it may start off as one color and then, for example, you lose the red and greens only blue would be left. This is just the basics, there are many in-depth articles about it all over the internet.
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Thank you for the additional information. I'll try to map out the stuck pixels again later today or tomorrow.
Dave
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I tried these instruction and they did not work. :-X
Read this thread on the NikonGear forum - for what it's worth...
Hot Pixel Remapping
1) Position your menu selection to be ready to apply a sensor cleaning.
2) Turn off Auto ISO and set camera to ISO3200 with all noise reductions OFF.
3) Set camera on Bulb and hold down the shutter for about 20 seconds to get things heated up a bit.
4) IMMEDIATELY after you release the shutter very quickly go into a sensor cleaning mode and execute 2 successive times in a row.
5) Take a new picture at the ISO3200 not in Bulb mode to confirm the hot or dead pixel is gone. Carefully viewing the image full screen not to miss it.
Hope this helps.
Mule
I've been searching the net and testing and haven't found much more than web sites with vague information and useless chatter on forums. Does anyone have specific information about various Nikon cameras and for the D300s in particular.Does anyone know of a list of specific Nikon models where back to back sensor cleaning will map out stuck pixels? Any other sites with instructions?
I did a two-button reset on my D300s. Then I set the camera to NEF image quality and turn off auto ISO and all noise reduction. The stuck pixels I'm seeing show up at the same locations every time. I thought I had a red and a blue stuck pixel on this camera. At this time I'm only finding red ones.
Anyway no joy...
Dave
This probably deserves a discussion of its own so I'll start one. I'm sorry if this is too far off the topic of this thread.
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D3x received in Signal Hill, California as of Aug 12. Thank you USPS :) Keeping my fingers crossed now.
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Received the dreaded gray market email "POP Needed". I had no idea but am annoyed with this archaic Nikon system in a global economy and myself for not asking more questions of the seller on the auction site I purchased it on. They will not fix it if I am unable to locate the original receipt.
I hope your Friday has stated better than mine! 8)
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Well, it is Friday the 13th after all. :-\
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Received the dreaded gray market email "POP Needed". I had no idea but am annoyed with this archaic Nikon system in a global economy and myself for not asking more questions of the seller on the auction site I purchased it on. They will not fix it if I am unable to locate the original receipt.
I hope your Friday has stated better than mine! 8)
Years ago I called Nikon in the Los Angeles area asking if a used Nikon F3 and MD-4 that I just bought were Nikon USA or gray market. I had 14 days to return these products. I was told that no one at Nikon will "divulge that information." They had a secret list of serial numbers. I was trying to avoid buying used gray market Nikon products. The person I was speaking to then realizing how stupid this sounded soften and said that there were many repair shops that would repair my Nikon F3 or MD-4 if needed. I know it was not the employees fault who was speaking to me.
Nikon USA's anti-customer policies have steadily eroded my opinion and satisfaction with Nikon USA. About a decade ago Nikon USA was violating California law by refusing to sell parts to independent camera repair shops. This seriously impacted a friend's income as an independent camera repairman. There was a lawsuit against Nikon. I don't know the outcome of the law suit but many independent repair shops were forced out of business.
I started with Nikon in 1970. Given Nikon's anti-customer polices I would probably not be using Nikon products.
Dave
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Well, it is Friday the 13th after all. :-\
That it is! There are alternatives of course, so I am not too stressed other than being out $50.00 in shipping charges :(. Next time I will call and verify serial number first. My D3x serial starts with a 5 which some sights state are for Canada which Nikon should repair. But I do know that the serials numbers are not that straight forward. I have asked Nikon what region the serial corresponds with.
Regards,
Tom
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Years ago I called Nikon in the Los Angles area asking if a used Nikon F3 and MD-4 that I just bought were Nikon USA or gray market. I had 14 days to return these products. I was told that no one at Nikon will "divulge that information." They had a secret list of serial numbers. I was trying to avoid buying used gray market Nikon products. The person I was speaking to then realizing how stupid this sounded soften and said that there were many repair shops that would repair my Nikon F3 or MD-4 if needed. I know it was not the employees fault who was speaking to me.
Nikon USA's anti-customer policies have steadily eroded my opinion and satisfaction with Nikon USA. About a decade ago Nikon USA was violating California law by refusing to sell parts to independent camera repair shops. This seriously impacted a friend's income as an independent camera repairman. There was a lawsuit against Nikon. I don't know the outcome of the law suit but many independent repair shops were forced out of business.
I started with Nikon in 1970. Given Nikon's anti-customer polices I would probably not be using Nikon products.
Dave
Dave,
Thank you for sharing your experience. I was not aware they wouldn't confirm or provide that information, I am shocked but not surprised. It really does leave a bad taste in your mouth. I can understand it for in warrant work, but out of warranty work - it's just insanity and anti-consumer. Generally I stay away from gray market, I did not even question it and that was m mistake. I just assumed that since the seller did not state "gray market" that it was a US version. Lesson learned, not that I release Nikon from fault due to their practices of course. One of the issues with the secret list is you have to rely on their word and assume it is accurate, consumers have no method of double checking to verify that I am aware of.
Regards,
Tom
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Next time I will call and verify serial number first.
Given my experience noted above you might try calling Nikon USA and ask them if your Nikon D3x is a Nikon USA camera or gray. I wonder if they are still following this at best misguided policy. I'm reticent to buy used Nikon products and I'm quite sure that is the purpose of Nikon USA's policies. How totally stupid! Why would anyone want to buy products with poor resale value.
Did I mention that I DO NOT like Nikon USA as a company?
Dave
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A small update. The person I purchased the D3x from on the auction site contacted his friend. And initially it did not look good as they suspected I was trying to swindle them, and this raised my suspicions regarding them I must admit. The friend was the original purchaser and a few days later he managed to locate the original receipt. ;D I wrote back to Nikon and ask that they double check their "database" and this morning I woke to an apology and they reversed their previous statements of the camera being a gray market and said that yes, indeed this was a US model. currently the camera is status of "SHOP" and is being repaired.
Keeping my fingers crossed that no parts need repaired :) I would not be surprised if the sensor was out of spec - but simply do not have enough experience with it to know. So that is pure conjecture on my part.
David, I was all ready to send it to a 3rd party whom I contacted and said they could perform all checks and mapping. I'm unsure what Nikon does in other parts of the world but from my understanding US has a bad reputation. Outside of the US, I believe there are much better consumer protection laws. In the end, the experience has left a bad taste in my mouth and I will be happy to be done and have camera in hand.
Regards,
Tom
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Like you the D3x was an extreme overreach back then. I purchased mine from a pawn shop advertised on ebay. It was like $.09 on the dollar after I sold the lens, ( a perfect 18-55vr that was hot at the time.) It had some very high dollar glass on Af, fine tune. Like more than my car. They included the original pawn ticket. It made my best camera of all time less festive.
I have had small and important issues with service, locally. I am of the opinion Nikon does not care for the US. We are more trouble than what we're worth, and I agree on that, working both sides of that isle. The D3x is a total different camera than the D3. I am really glad things are looking good.
Cheers,
Steve
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Thank you Steve. I was surprised to learn this D3x had been in storage for years. - but then I realized that I also had placed my hobby on the shelf so I could completely understand.
A small update, so I had received an email and asked the last rep I spoke with about it and she said no I didn't have to re-submit billing info as I had paid up front via CC/Debit. I mentioned that it had not been taken out of the account and she said they won't until they bill. She stated it was in the Shop as we spoke... Fast forward to last week when I received another email asking for billing and several times I was tempted to call and ask what was going on (I should have!). So I call, the camera had been done within 2 days and they have been waiting for me to provide the payment information again... This.Whole.Time! :o Once paid, they are able to ship the camera back to me. Perhaps one of the issues was they closed the original ticket and created a new one when I was able to provide the original receipt. I really have no idea why, what the billing system process is like, and if this is typical or not - I just know that it has not been smooth or efficient.
So if anyone is looking for my advice in the future, it is: Call, and then if things don't move call again - don't sit and wait.
Currently my D3x says shipped, but no tracking information has been entered into the ticket - so I have no idea where it is.
Shipped
D3X
Order Number: ##########
Serial Number: 5########
UPS Tracking Number:
Problem: PREMIUM CAMERA INSPECTION & MAINTENANCE - -
Total cost of repair: $202.45*
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Well, I have the camera back, the screws are back in, and I have a few new scratches in the rear LCD. It doesn't appear they mapped out any/many of the hot, dead or stuck pixles... :-\ ??? :( I called Nikon and I have a few images to send them that they requested. From my understanding, a mapped out pixel should take on the colors of the pixels around them. Can anyone confirm and or provide a picture of what an unprocessed before and after mapped pixel looks like?
Regards,
Tom
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Image saved to .JPG and marked up with arrows at all of the pixels that are hot, stuck and dead after returning from servicing from Nikon. I have called them to assure that mapping of the pixels was performed and rep pulled up the report and said yes it has been, everything is within Nikon specifications.
Image below was taken without a lens, body cap in place at the D3x's Base ISO. ISO 100 @ 1/60 of a second.
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Hot and stuck pixels can be removed, edited out, by Capture NX-D using Noise Reduction> Edge Noise and Astro Noise Reduction, so it can be dealt with in development if you shoot NEF. I've read that Lightroom and Photoshop can remove hot and stuck pixels from RAW images when developing RAW images. Other software surely also has this capability.
Dave
My D300s has a few permanent or semi-permanent stuck pixels at any ISO. These are primary red and blue. My D850 shows hot pixels, only white, around ISO 128,00 to 256,00. Capture NX-D does a good job of removing the hot pixels from the D850 NEF(s).
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Thanks for the reply David. I do use those tools and others on a regular basis. Some do not get removed unfortunately and I have to manually remove them. The reason I had this camera sent of was primarily to map out the pixels to provide a cleaner over all image. The cost for servicing was roughly $190 USD. It appears they did not map any pixels out. Perhaps I expected too much?
Regards,
Tom
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Thomas,
I tried using several sensor cleanings in quick succession with my D300s and this did not map out the stuck pixels. I guess that works with some cameras. I used to clone out a few stuck pixels, all in the same location with my D300s. I haven't done anything with my D850 as I believe hot pixels at crazy ISO(s) are to be expected.
Do you have hot or stuck pixels at the same locations when shooting near the base ISO? If not I believe the software solution is best.
Dave
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David,
The image I attached was at base ISO (ISO 100) for the D3x @ 1/60 of a second with the no lens on, just the body cap.
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My take: Assuming that mapping out hot/stuck pixels is a real thing that real service shops do, I would set up a redo of the "repair" at their expense including shipping. They can't be allowed to charge for a service that they didn't actually perform.
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Pluton,
The Premium Maintenance & Inspection Service at 184.95 is the service I selected, the Standard and Premium include Hot/Dead pixel mapping of image sensor per a SS below of the package highlights. I also received from Nikon the service report which has a check mark and no notes for that specific service. Currently awaiting word from Nikon and keeping my fingers crossed that this goes smoother than the rest of this ordeal :)
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Well, it's been over 48 hours, I called back - after 20 minutes on hold I was disconnected. I called back and spoke with someone this time. He said it was in que and it would be 24-48 hours. So I ran through all the issues I have had, that it wasn't fixed and now has a scratched rear LCD and dust on the sensor and that it's been well over 48 hours since Monday when I last called them and I haven't heard anything. I then asked is this another 24-48 hours after this call or since the last one? He stated he would try and have someone call me back today. I was chuckling while trying to explain things, he did not engage in banter nor apologize. I am running out of patience. Is this all normal for them, or am I just having a lot of bad luck?!
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I have dealt with the Nikon service in L.A. only in person, where the counter person always seemed adequately knowledgable, and readily admitted when it appeared that a repair had been done wrong.
I would stay on the case, and try be patient with the less than stellar customer communication that Nikon is infamous for.
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Seems similar to the so called Apple Genius Bar. Depends a million percent on who you deal with.
I am just a humble lumpen drone here in Tokyo, and my experiences with Nikon totally depend on who I a lucky enough to deal with. Of course those with Nikon connections can easily fast track here, but the lumpen like me have to deal with the trained drones.
Everything is by the manual here, from nuclear disasters to a faulty camera. There is no space for free thinking or difference. So if a lens or camera is not officially supported - that’s it. Endo.
The only time I wish I was living in the USA is when I know I am missing out on an independent reapairer..
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I apologize for not returning to this post, I realize that some of you took time to comment and I appreciate it. I am split, part of me thinks no one wants to read about my experiences as it's not uncommon or enjoyable. Part of me wants to continue documenting it... ???
The frustration continues but there is progress. They finally accepted the camera back and sent a prepaid UPS label. I spent on last day with the camera and then boxed it up. There are many similarities with the D3 and some very obvious differences. I still need time to explore and learn the inner workings and how to make images with it. I responded to a closed ticket as I hadn't heard anything and once again was reminded that their website is in need of some TLC. As soon as I sent off an email to reopen the ticket I got an email stating it had been closed. I documented this in a follow up email to Nikon and then later received a reply and a new ticket number. So I took a look and the new ticket number reads:
Problem: IMAGE SENSOR HAS BURNED OUT PIXELS UNRELATED ISSUE-GOOD WILL REPAIR
Please note in much of my correspondence I have stated bad pixels and when elaborating used the terms Dead, Stuck, Hot, Cold(? may not have given this term but I circled the damn pixels! They don't register the correct value). I have never seen the term burned out pixels used. I have coined this marketing speak. ;D
I explained it to my wife this way when explaining the frustration based on the comment on the ticket:
That is like taking your car into the shop and saying I have a flat tire, there is a hole in the tire and illustrating where it's at with soapy water. They repair it and hand over the car, the tire goes flat immediately and you take it back and tell them the same hole is in it and they argue about it. Finally they say yes, there is an unrelated problem, there is separation between the molecules, we will fix it but it wasn't related to the issue it was initially sent in for.
In any case, I see progress and I will hold onto that and hope that it arrives in time for some fall photographs. While this has sapped some of the excitement out of getting the new gear, I am still extremely eager to get it back and put it to use!
Regards,
Tom
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I received my camera back from Nikon. I was apprehensive, but it appears that they have done a good job the 2nd go around. No pixel issues, better than my D3 now!
I was once again forced to remind myself, check all your settings! I took some images and didn't realize I was on .JPG mode :o.
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I was once again forced to remind myself, check all your settings! I took some images and didn't realize I was on .JPG mode :o.
If the D3X is similar to the D300s, D800 and D850 you can save your settings banks to a memory card in your camera. Once saved you can backup the *.BIN file (D850 example: NCSETUPM.BIN) to your computer. The *.BIN file on the memory card is easy to over-write but you can wright protect it on the memory card using Properties for a Windows PC or Get Info for a MAC. If you accidentally try to over-write your personal defaults saved in the *.BIN file you camera will respond with something similar to "Cannot create file."
OK, so once you've saved your personal default settings to your primary memory card on your camera you can Load Settings at anytime. I do this whenever I haven't used the camera for a while, e.g. an hour or whenever I'm unsure of the camera's state.
This procedure has saved me many errors. I don't look like a fool diving to menu when I should be shooting.
An important part of smooth use of my Nikon cameras is creating a well organized My Menu. The My Menu is saved to the *.BIN file along with the banks and other settings. Check your manual to see what is backed up and what is not.
So I mess with settings. I'm finished doing whatever. I'm unsure of the cameras settings. I "Load settings," my personal settings and I'm good to shoot!
Best,
Dave
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If the D3X is similar to the D300s, D800 and D850 you can save your settings banks to a memory card in your camera. Once saved you can backup the *.BIN file (D850 example: NCSETUPM.BIN) to your computer. The *.BIN file on the memory card is easy to over-write but you can wright protect it on the memory card using Properties for a Windows PC or Get Info for a MAC. If you accidentally try to over-write your personal defaults saved in the *.BIN file you camera will respond with something similar to "Cannot create file."
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Making the file read-only will not prevent you from erasing it in all cases, for example it will be gone forever if you format your memory card. It is essential to have a backup on a computer so it can be restored on the memory card. Apart from this difference, your procedure for restoring the camera to a known default state is exactly the same as mine.
Ciao from Massimo
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Hello,
Thank you for the comments. I have used/use the settings file with my previous cameras (and current D3), I just haven't had this camera long enough to actually set anything up as it has been traveling back and forth to Nikon since I received it. I typically keep a smaller CF card with the settings files as well as an excel file with all the settings.
Regards,
Tom
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Making the file read-only will not prevent you from erasing it in all cases, for example it will be gone forever if you format your memory card.
Thank you for pointing this out...
I forgot to mention that the *.bin must be copied back to the memory card when ever the card is reformatted.
I don't format my memory cards often. Knock on silicon: I use the SD Association formatter follow by in camera formatting and only when I've removed a card without properly ejecting it or moving it from one camera to another.
Dave
The Devil now lives in silicon
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There’s a solution for stuck pixels:
Two sensor cleanings in quick succession (setup menu -> clean image sensor -> clean now).
This will permanently map out stuck/hot pixels.
That is Odd !!
The above Procedure does Not exist with the D3X...( it does with the D3S )
Copied & Paste from my own post on another forum...https://nikondslr.uk/view_topic.php?id=1448&forum_id=2
My wonderful D3X had so many of those , that it was as if it took pictures with built-in X-mas lighting...the D3S was not that much better.
I had already hunted down a program called " pixel-fixer ",when I stumbled over some advice.
Now , in RAW them pixels get fixed in developing ( Nikon Capture ), but not in J-peg , and I shoot both , RAW in 14 bit , j-peg in lower res. intended for media, but those coloured dots..For the D3X the procedure is as follows :
The " trick " is simply...with camera set to RAW and J-peg FINE
1) Put on lenscap , Close viewfinder blind.
2) Camera set to " M "
3) Select HIGHEST ISO ( I set it to H 2.0 )
4) Select Lowest Shutterspeed (which is 30 sec.)
5) Fire !!
It seems as if Camera switches off , wait for it...Shutter will Return , LCd `s light up , but wait !!...at one point the Monitor will show a black screen..the Top-Lcd will flash.. " JOB-af " for a little while, then after it stops ...Make SURE it stops completely !!
Keep steps 1 and 2 and 4.
3) Select LOWEST ISO ( I set it to L1.0 )
5) Fire ...
Again it will seem as if Camera switches off , wait for it...Shutter will Return , LCd `s light up , but wait !!...the Top-Lcd will flash.. " JOB-af " for a little while ...
As there are TWO (2) Directories,Do the Above TWICE !!...
Upon Checking the Monitor, using High Magnification , You will see that Most coloured dots are gone , IF , there still are some , then they will be mute , and even under pixel peeping they `ll be hardly noticeable , as you would have to Enlarge substantially.
Remember to set camera back to previous settings, as a shutterspeed of 30 sec. is a Long shutterspeed.. :)
Perhaps this was posted before , but I have not seen it .
I apologise on beforehand if I have .." kicked in open doors "...
S L R