NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Birna Rørslett on July 21, 2020, 06:00:58

Title: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Birna Rørslett on July 21, 2020, 06:00:58
At last, the Z system has got its own, native teleconverters. Nikon indicates they had the 70-200/2.8 S as the first targeted lens for use with these TCs. However, the already launched 120-300/.8 Nikkor S should be a hot candidate for these new converters as well. They have a proment, protruding neck and hence will not fit most of the existing Z lenses, but I see the design as an indication future long lenses will be fully compatible with them.

The design involves aspherical element(s), fluorine coating and some strongly curved elements.Nikon assured me virtually noi loss of image quality eas to be expected with the 70-200 and the 1.4X, perhaps slightly less perfect with the 2X.

The build is very robust and weather sealing is claimed to be to the highest standard.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on July 21, 2020, 09:38:25
At least Nikon didn't make their 70-200/2.8 incompatible with TCs like Canon did.

However, the 120-300/2.8 is an F-mount lens and probably should be used with F-mount TCs (I'm not saying these won't be compatible via the FTZ but I'd be a little surprised if they are).
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Birna Rørslett on July 21, 2020, 09:52:44
I stand corrected regarding the 120-300 :( Putting a Z TC on the F version will be impossible or robbing the lens of its quality, unless Nikon already had considered the possibility in the design of the 120-300.

However, there are long lenses on the Z Roadmap, thus I assume they will be compatible with the native TC's.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: richardHaw on July 21, 2020, 16:59:51
At least Nikon didn't make their 70-200/2.8 incompatible with TCs like Canon did.

you're not serious are you :o :o :o

that's a damn stupid move by C ::)
i wonder what the reason could be.

the Z tcs surprises me since i assume that they will just stick to the F mount ones.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on July 21, 2020, 18:36:39
you're not serious are you :o :o :o


I am. It is stated in the specifications that the lens is not compatible with extenders.

Quote
that's a damn stupid move by C ::)
i wonder what the reason could be.

They made the RF 70-200 really compact at 70mm (it's an extending zoom) and to achieve that, the rear elements are close to the sensor. There is no space for the front of the TC to go inside the lens. I suppose if they could have achieved a similar compactness and image quality with a design that can use TCs, they would have.

I ordinarily find Canon pretty sensible in their optics, but here I think they may have made a miscalculation. I suspect people will start asking for a new version compatible with extenders. The 600/11 I understand even less....
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: chambeshi on July 22, 2020, 15:48:57
Specifications including MTFs (coupled with 70-200)

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_tc_14x/spec.htm

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_tc_2x/spec.htm

Compare the MTF of the 70-200 f2.8S
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_70-200mmf28_vr_s/spec.htm
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on July 22, 2020, 16:01:09
Specifications including MTFs (coupled with 70-200)

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_tc_14x/spec.htm

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_tc_2x/spec.htm

Compare the MTF of the 70-200 f2.8S
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_70-200mmf28_vr_s/spec.htm

I thought I'd never buy a 70-200 zoom. I used one for a while on a Canon and it was a pain to haul around so I stuck to fixed focus like the 180 f/2.8 and 300mm f/2.8 AI-s (turned out to be a bit heavy too...). But the images I get from the Z6 with kit lens and 14-30mm zoom make me seriously consider adding a 70-200 and TC. It would cover a large percentage of everything I do.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: MILLIREHM on July 23, 2020, 10:21:05
Couldn't it be possible to use the Z-Teleconverters on F-mount tele lenses with the FTZ Adapter in between?
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Birna Rørslett on July 23, 2020, 12:01:39
Technically speaking this ought to work. However, there is no guarantee the results are good enough due to the potential optical mismatch.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: MILLIREHM on July 23, 2020, 19:25:55
Technically speaking this ought to work. However, there is no guarantee the results are good enough due to the potential optical mismatch.

I fully agree - I consider it as connectible but the outcome may vary between good and inferior. But I am sure sooner or later somebody will test it out.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Birna Rørslett on July 23, 2020, 19:50:25
Of course, I'll be experimenting with these new TCs immediately when I can lay my hands on them :)
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Netr on July 24, 2020, 01:33:37
Thom Hogan states that Nikon advises the FTZ will not work on the new Z mount TCs.  https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/answer-from-nikon.html
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Roland Vink on July 24, 2020, 02:13:14
Couldn't it be possible to use the Z-Teleconverters on F-mount tele lenses with the FTZ Adapter in between?

In Brad Hill's blog (http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html) he writes about the 180-400:

"it seems to work extremely well with the TC-14EIII (1.4x) teleconverter (a bit to early to say this with full certainty, but I suspected it would work as well with the TC-14EIII as the 180-400 works with its built-in TC - and it appears that is the case)."

The built-in TC fits between some rear elements, while the TC-14EIII obviously fits behind the lens. This suggests the placement of the TC along the optical path is not too critical - for this lens at least. So if it the Z TCs is mechanically compatible with the FTZ, it could work equally well as the F-mount TCs. But of course impossible to say with certainty without actually trying :)
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Øivind Tøien on July 24, 2020, 05:19:17

Perhaps vignetting problems since the Z-TC it is so close to the sensor and F lenses would potentially have rear elements further away from the Z-TC than Z-lenses?
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: MILLIREHM on July 24, 2020, 08:25:34
I did not take into account that the FT-Z has got this reduced rectangle inside. So it depends on the protruding TC-elements diameter - I considered this as rather narrow but after looking up the picture again I am not too sure. It might as well turn out to be mechanically incompatible. (Fortunately it is no problem with the old non-Retrofocus design Fisheyes)
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 02, 2020, 18:34:41
according to Nikonrumors.com the converters fit to the 70-200/2,8 and according to the roadmaps one could find there there is a 100-400 S line and a 200-600 non S-line in the queue. Will be interesting how fast (and converter suitable) these lenses will be. Probably only the 100-400 might have a constant aperture (4,5 or 5,6?)-
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Roland Vink on August 03, 2020, 03:08:43
My Guess:
100-400mm f/4.5-5.6  (77mm filter size, same as 70-200/2.8 )
200-600mm f/5-6.3  (95mm filter, same a 200-500/5.6)
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 03, 2020, 11:18:40
My Guess:
100-400mm f/4.5-5.6  (77mm filter size, same as 70-200/2.8 )
200-600mm f/5-6.3  (95mm filter, same a 200-500/5.6)

Good guess
I also expect the 200-600 to go beyond 5.6 on the long side, 6,3 or even 7.1
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Roland Vink on August 03, 2020, 23:02:13
The Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm zooms both have 95mm filter size and are f/6.3 at 600mm, so I expect the Nikkor to be the same.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: chambeshi on August 04, 2020, 10:15:56
My Guess:
100-400mm f/4.5-5.6  (77mm filter size, same as 70-200/2.8 )
200-600mm f/5-6.3  (95mm filter, same a 200-500/5.6)

I agree with you  :) The silhouette suggests the 100-400 is similar in outer dimensions to the 80-400 G.  I do hope so. Bear in mind the 200-500 f.6E takes 95mm filters. Here's an annotated Z Nikkor roadmap posted on dpr. It was derived from this one
https://cdn.nikoneurope.com/imported/images/web/EU/learn-and-explore/brochures-leaflets/Mirrorless/NIKKOR_Z_LINEUP_July_2020_en_EU--original.pdf

The author provided a link to download the labelled graphic:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6e4nkigweczmec/Nikon%20Z%20System.pdf?dl=0
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: chambeshi on August 27, 2020, 15:36:03
The performance in the wild of the new Z Teleconverters seems to match theoretical data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Moy-5OqaZg

The first copies are reaching their new owners this week + the new 70-200 f2.8S, and some have promised comparative reports soon.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: SHEN_HUI on September 23, 2020, 03:41:02
Got mine 2 weeks ago.

picture 1

Z 70-200 with 1.4 TC.

picture 2.

100% crop.

Picture 3

Z 70-200 with 2.0 TC

picture 4

100% crop.

It immediately  became one of my favorite lens for its permormance on color, boken & the abitily to restore details.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: Tristin on September 23, 2020, 04:53:30
Lovely Night Heron capture Shen.
Title: Re: Native TC 1.4 & 2X for Z lenses
Post by: SHEN_HUI on September 23, 2020, 09:56:40
Lovely Night Heron capture Shen.

Thanks Tristin. ;D