NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Processing & Publication => Topic started by: frankier on April 19, 2020, 17:35:01
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Tired of Capture NX-D.
I miss dearly NX2 with the local adjustments etc. So much more user friendly.
What is everyone using for PP? What drove you toward your choice?
My cameras include D850, D750, D200.
Thanks!
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I use Capture One.
This is because I mainly shoot Fuji and Capture One does an excellent job with the X-Trans sensor, unlike Lightroom. It has layers and luminosity masking, which I use quite a lot; it is weak on cloning and healing.
I also find it does an excellent job on my nefs.
There is, of course, a learning curve with any new software, but there are many official C1 tutorials online. You can download a trial.
I have previously used NX2, LR/ACR, Photo Ninja and ON1.
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I used to use Capture NX-D, but wanted better management of photos, so tried out Capture One. I was happy enough with it to buy it.
Reasons:
Does a good job with converting .NEF files, better than Adobe in my opinion (importing files from DF, Z6)
Sliders for shadows/highlights make quick work when I want to balance exposures
Layers and masks make it possible to do fairly complex processing
Keystone is better than NX-D
I use Affinity Photo when I need to do editing and creation as well as stacking for focus, HDR, panos.
95% of the time, I'm fine with results from Capture One
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I am happy with Lightroom. It was recommended to me by a friend when I decided to switch to digital. From helping me to organise my photographs, through a good range of local adjustments and on to printing, it does a decent job all in one place. As part of the subscription, you also can have Photoshop and the two work quite seamlessly. Photoshop is a beast and I am only just starting to find my way around. You can safely ignore it if you wish.
Another benefit is the sheer number of people using Lightroom. Tutorials, advice and answers to your questions abound.
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Still using Lightroom 6.14...the last iteration before it became extortion..uhh...err...I mean rental software. I still think Lightroom offers the most functions that work well (well enough?) in one app compared to any other...especially if you make inkjet prints. It's original competition was Apple's Aperture, which was even better and faster.
LR is weak with Fuji raw conversions, and of course is now rental. I will have to decide whether or not to rent the new Lightroom when I update my Mac OS in the future.
I have tried Capture One several times and yes...the default raw conversions are excellent Personally, I have found C-1's interface to be rough to deal with...many extra clicks and keystrokes are needed to accomplish the same tasks as Lightroom allows quickly and easily. Perhaps a result of C-1 starting as a tethering app and then being transmuted, over time, into a general raw converter/developer?
I have Photo Ninja, Iridient Developer, NX-D, Phocus, Fuji's Silypix variant, and the free [old]Capture-One for Fuji as well.
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I think you have to assess whether you want strong library functions or primarily raw editor. If you want an all in one, Lightroom is very hard to beat. For any given function of LR there is some program that does it better, but LR does it all but not always great. I’ve tried to break away but get pulled back in!
If you can say more of your workflow and goals people can give better recommendations.
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Just a note, in case you haven't checked recently, that the latest versions of Capture NX-D have added the control points.
I'm a terrible cheapskate, and use NX-D for basic Raw changes like exposure correction and white balance, freeware Faststone Image Viewer for quick JPG alteration and cropping and the like for web posting. Faststone works pretty well at highlight and shadow recovery, and the sharpening is predictable. It crops and resizes well too. Reading of Raw files isn't perfect, and needs fine tuning. Irfanview for quick viewing and for bulk resizing, renaming, etc. (its bulk function is very fast) when doing things like trip CD's for family and friends. That's my default viewer, but it has few editing features, though it will run some PS plugins. For anything more demanding, either Raw Therapee or Photoscape. Photoscape has a usable masking feature and a "dehaze" function that's occasionally useful. I've been thinking about trying "Darktable," open source supposedly similar to Lightroom, but haven't yet tried it.
Some years ago I had an older version of Photoshop but it doesn't run on Windows 10, and I never found myself needing it enough to pay the price.
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I think you have to assess whether you want strong library functions or primarily raw editor. If you want an all in one, Lightroom is very hard to beat. For any given function of LR there is some program that does it better, but LR does it all but not always great. I’ve tried to break away but get pulled back in!
Rob, This is an excellent summing up of the situation.
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Tired of Capture NX-D.
I miss dearly NX2 with the local adjustments etc. So much more user friendly.
I miss the clear unambiguous workflow of Capture NX2 and if I hadn't moved to the D500 I'd still be using it
Whilst it appears possible to use NX-D to achieve similar results, it makes me feel like I'm working with misted up glasses and welding gloves.
I used LR for a few years but never really enjoyed the process
Like Matthew, I found FastStone a much better tool for browsing & evaluating images with easy import into NX2.
So stuck with NX-D and sulking
I'm keen to see the reasoning behind other people's choices too.
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After saying I would, I finally got around to downloading the latest Win. version of Darktable. It looks interesting, but it crashes when I invoke it with the "open with" dialogue on a specific image. It opens by itself, and imports an image all right, but it remains to figure out how to save an image once it's processed, and how to get a second image in. Once you open a module you can turn it off, but I can't find a way to minimize it again. So far I'm not very impressed, and it looks as if Photoscape does much the same with less hassle. If I don't figure it out reasonably soon I'll probably not give it any of my rapidly declining disk space.
e.t.a. Managed to find the import and export functions. It's not very intuitive, but eventually it all starts to work. Jury still out on whether it's worthwhile.
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While I watched, a friend installed Darktable on his modern iMac (this was approx 2 years ago). Darktable couldn't "see" the external drive volume that he had his image files stored on, and so, having flunked the most basic of tests, was promptly deleted about 5 minutes after it had been installed.
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I have similar experiences with Darktable (and deleted it quickly) use the free RawTherapee (5.8 ) instead.
Photo Ninja still doesn't read the Z-files, so, can only use it for the older Nikon Camera's.
Camera Raw (V 12.2.1) is very solid, and Adobe continuously upgrades and updates the program. In combination with CC it's a winner.
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What version of Photo Ninja do you use, John? All versions from 1.25 to 1.38b (the latest) do read NEFs from the Z systems, even the latest Z50 addition. I'm running versions up to 1.37 on my Linux boxes and Z NEFs are all digested, as are they on Windows with 1.38/1.38b . However, only 1.38 has built-in the proper profile for Z6. I should have the Z profile available somewhere.
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Addendum: found the Z6 profile for Photo Ninja. Anyone in need of it, just PM me. You install it from: Main menu> Image >Manage profiles > Install
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Addendum: found the Z6 profile for Photo Ninja. Anyone in need of it, just PM me. You install it from: Main menu> Image >Manage profiles > Install
Would it work on earlier version of Ninja as well?
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What version of Photo Ninja do you use, John? All versions from 1.25 to 1.38b (the latest) do read NEFs from the Z systems, even the latest Z50 addition. I'm running versions up to 1.37 on my Linux boxes and Z NEFs are all digested, as are they on Windows with 1.38/1.38b . However, only 1.38 has built-in the proper profile for Z6. I should have the Z profile available somewhere.
At the moment I am running 1.37a
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I abandoned Adobe last year after I purchased a Z6 (before that LR 6.14 and PS6, no subscription).
I first tried ON1 as it is a kind of a LR Clone. I couldn't migrate the LR catalog (as they promised) and I find it's more a filter program than a RAW-converter.
Now I'm using DxO Photolabs 3 (with U-point technology and NIK-plugins. I'm pretty happy so far.
The lens corrections are very good as is the noise reduction (Prime).
It has no Panorama, HDR nor stacking functions. I use Affinity Photo for that (PS clone). There's no history of edits yet.
The DAM functionality is very poor (they just started with keywords), but I don't miss it.
I'm thinking of adding Topaz Sharpen AI to my workflow. I'm reading good things about it.
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Photoninja 1.2.5 on a Z6
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Probably.
The colour stripes are caused by using uncompressed NEFs. Set the camera to record compressed lossless and all is well.
Convert your problem file to DNG, Fons -- then Photo Ninja can deal with it :)
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At the moment I am running 1.37a
Then it should read Z6 NEFs, provided they are 12/14 bit compressed lossless. I can send you the Z6 profile if you require this for improved colours.
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Probably.
The colour stripes are caused by using uncompressed NEFs. Set the camera to record compressed lossless and all is well.
Convert your problem file to DNG, Fons -- then Photo Ninja can deal with it :)
Thanks, it does work on .dng's how i like Photoninja ;)
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Then it should read Z6 NEFs, provided they are 12/14 bit compressed lossless. I can send you the Z6 profile if you require this for improved colours.
Dng's work and compressed too.
But I refuse to change my settings (Uncompressed) to comply with the rules of the image-processor.
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The author of PN explained to me that Nikon had made significant changes to their uncompressed format and those additions caused existing code to go hay-wire.
I cannot see any real tangible significance of selecting uncompressed instead of lossless compressed as the RAW format. More disk space is consumed and that is a difference ...
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Dng's work and compressed too.
But I refuse to change my settings (Uncompressed) to comply with the rules of the image-processor.
My files are uncompressed while significantly larger they promise beter iq; tiffs will open in pn also.
However they donot convert into tiff or be opened by PN.
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The author of PN explained to me that Nikon had made significant changes to their uncompressed format and those additions caused existing code to go hay-wire.
I cannot see any real tangible significance of selecting uncompressed instead of lossless compressed as the RAW format. More disk space is consumed and that is a difference ...
Thanks for the Info, Birna. The changes in the uncompressed format is with regard to the Z-camera's ? I have not tested it with Z, but especially with darker scenes the shadow lifting and noise-reduction was better with the uncompressed NEF. Perhaps this does not work any more since the Z-camera's?
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Now I'm using DxO Photolabs 3 (with U-point technology and NIK-plugins. I'm pretty happy so far.
The lens corrections are very good as is the noise reduction (Prime).
It has no Panorama, HDR nor stacking functions. I use Affinity Photo for that (PS clone).
I would give DxO a look, except no Fujis allowed, at least right now.
Speaking of panoramas and Lightroom, when Lightroom manufactures a pano, it creates the pano as a DNG file. Great...except no other processing app (that I've tried) can read these Lightroom-created DNGs. Photo Ninja, Iridient, Capture 1. They see the preview thumbnail, but cannot open the DNG for adjustments.
A further limitation of the Adobe universe? So much for the "universal" DNG format?
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I would give DxO a look, except no Fujis allowed, at least right now.
Speaking of panoramas and Lightroom, when Lightroom manufactures a pano, it creates the pano as a DNG file. Great...except no other processing app (that I've tried) can read these Lightroom-created DNGs. Photo Ninja, Iridient, Capture 1. They see the preview thumbnail, but cannot open the DNG for adjustments.
A further limitation of the Adobe universe? So much for the "universal" DNG format?
Have you asked Adobe about this?
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I would give DxO a look, except no Fujis allowed, at least right now.
Speaking of panoramas and Lightroom, when Lightroom manufactures a pano, it creates the pano as a DNG file.
A further limitation of the Adobe universe? So much for the "universal" DNG format?
I take the DNG output from a pano or HDR, straight into Ps, add signature, any edits, cloning etc. and perhaps border then export as uncompressed TIFF, the DNG gets dumped.
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My files are uncompressed while significantly larger they promise beter iq; tiffs will open in pn also.
However they donot convert into tiff or be opened by PN.
It is an extra step to convert from NEF into Tiff or DNG. Extra work. ;)
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I take the DNG output from a pano or HDR, straight into Ps, add signature, any edits, cloning etc. and perhaps border then export as uncompressed TIFF, the DNG gets dumped.
Yeah, TIFF is one of the export format choices in Ps. But I wonder what Keith would see out of his Fuji based DNG if he had DxO loaded, and he used the "Edit In" function in Lr to go directly into DxO? I'm not clear on whether his issue is somehow Fuji based or if it's because the DNG is a pano.
TIFF panos, that ought to take care of unused disk space. ;)
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My files are uncompressed while significantly larger they promise beter iq; tiffs will open in pn also.
However they donot convert into tiff or be opened by PN.
I once converted a RAW file straight to TIFF and couldn't recover the highlight, although I could recover the highlight very well on the very same original RAW.
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I use NX-D as a pre processor and do the main work in Photoshop. Depending on the situation I use JPEGs anyway. If the contrast of the scene is well with in the dynamic range of the sensor, if my post processing time is not paid for, if I managed to have a great camera day and avoided the 0.5 deg rotation I do correct often, if I do not want to create a special look and mood....
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My angle of rotation is consistently 1.2 degrees ... thus RAW is the way to go for me.
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My angle of rotation is consistently 1.2 degrees ... thus RAW is the way to go for me.
;-) ++++
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Nikon NX-D. It has gotten better and better over the years. Control points are pretty useful as well. Faststone for quick culling of shots.
Hermann
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It is a shame that cameras don't measure the angle of rotation and include it in the image EXIF data.
OK probably not so helpful if the camera is being pointed down at the ground, but would be handy for those shots where the camera is more or less parallel to the ground.
My angle of rotation is consistently 1.2 degrees ... thus RAW is the way to go for me.
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I use NX-D as a pre processor and do the main work in Photoshop. Depending on the situation I use JPEGs anyway. If the contrast of the scene is well with in the dynamic range of the sensor, if my post processing time is not paid for, if I managed to have a great camera day and avoided the 0.5 deg rotation I do correct often, if I do not want to create a special look and mood....
My angle of rotation is consistently 1.2 degrees ... thus RAW is the way to go for me.
It's a relief to know that you experts are suffering from the same problem as mine. Strangely and unfortunately, the electronic levels in the viewfinder or on the screen don't always help. :(
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After a bad accident, I got a mashed trochlear nerve, so my angle of rotation is way worse than Birna's. It's actually between 4 and 5 degrees in plain vision at each eye (each slopes down at the nose end), but the dominant eye sets the level, so the image in my left eye is perceived to tilt up on the left at about 10 degrees. I've gotten used to getting it right in a horizontal viewfinder with the grid turned on, but am always off by about 5 degrees in verticals unless I consciously turn on the level, and in Live View it's hopeless, because everything looks level when it isn't.
From birth to age 64 I had a dominant left eye. I woke from the coma with a dominant right! For a while I listed and bumped into things.
What I have to remember, and don't always, is to shoot a little wider than I intend, so there's room to level later. When I used a D3200, it was easier because the viewfinder wasn't 100 percent. Now with a 100% viewfinder I have to remember not to frame so tight.
Faststone has a pretty good leveling function that works fine on JPG, not that that's a good reason to give up Raw.
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I use C1P.
I hope you do realize that LR and PN and Affinity....etc use different algorithm to translate the RAW files with a huge difference in color and Lum variation.
Unless you shoot with camera on neutral and open the files on neutral and process from there.
I did compare the same files on the different apps and diff platforms and C1P gives the best result..........unless you are shooting and processing from neutral......which I do do for certain shoots using medium format P1
I did a test on the Z7 files with C1P and LR and the difference is glaring.
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I always shoot raw, no JPEG, lately with Nikon Advanced D-Lighting turned up to the max. This allows maximum tonal detail---shadows and highlights--- on the camera rear LCD display. Upon import into Lightroom, User Presets are applied that deliver a starting point already advanced past what the off-the-shelf Nikon or Adobe neutral would yield. Half-way home. It still doesn't look as nice as the C-1 default rendering, but accepting the default raw conversion as the final version is extremely rare for me.
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I always shoot RAW and I always keep the original NEFs regardless of whether I have processed them and saved copies in other formats. My reason for saving the NEFs is that processing software is continually improving.
When I return to photographs which I converted only a few years ago, I find that I can get even better results today if I re-convert from the NEF using the updated software.
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I normally use Lightroom, but today I had to see more information on a specific image and opened Capture NX-D.
It is very slow on my iMac, where LR runs reasonable fast. Am I the only one that fells that Capture NX-D is very close to unusable due to the slow speed?
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I normally use Lightroom, but today I had to see more information on a specific image and opened Capture NX-D.
It is very slow on my iMac, where LR runs reasonable fast. Am I the only one that fells that Capture NX-D is very close to unusable due to the slow speed?
For some unknown reason i can't get capture nx-d installed on my laptop, i mostly use photoshop, a few others as well, dxo photolab3, photoninja etc
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I have NX-D on an almost 10 years old PC (i7 - 860 CPU at 2.8 GHz).
It is not unusable but slow. If I zoom in to 100% in an image it may take 5-10 sec before the image is 100% crisp. So there is a delay when performing various functions.
Nikon image processing software has always been a bit on the slow side compared with other programs.
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I'm working in an Apple OS / iOS environment, for more than 10 years now. Started an Adobe subscription for Photographers in 2014, after I had to dump Aperture. I'm using, on a daily basis, Lightroom Classic (9.2.1), Photoshop (21.1.2) Camera Raw 12.1 (the engine), CC / Lightroom Mobile, and Portfolio The yearly subscription costs me about €130 or €12/month.
Lr has an excellent Digital Asset Management (DAM) engine, which is a must for me; the image processing and editing tools give me full satisfaction. I process about 10% of my pictures further in Ps. The Adobe Cloud features allow me to process my pictures across my entire Mac platform (MacBook Pro, iPad Pro, iPhone) and distribute selected images to clients, and media.
I'm striving for continuity and stability, which a big firm as Adobe can provide. BTW, i'm only shooting NEF raw files (smartphone, excepted).
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On Capture NX-D, it is pretty slow, as all the Nikon software seems to be, but it does depend on the computer. On my current cheap Win 10 laptop it's usable. Slow to load initially but OK once it's going, though both it and the earlier Capture NX-2 are slow to do conversions too. On my traveling Win 7 "Netbook," which is truly minimal, both are essentially useless - useable in an emergency but best avoided.
I did have one issue with NX-D in windows 10, that one of the updates did not install properly, though it seemed to be working and gave no error messages, and the previous version had gone fine. It would load but nothing would come up when I tried to run it. It was a permission issue, I think. Although I have set up with as a single user and administrator, Windows 10 does not actually give full admin. status even if you're logged on as a user/administrator. I solved the problem by creating an actual Administrator account. When I logged into that, it installed properly.
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I rely mainly on Photo Ninja, but do use other conversion software when there is a need for this. Such programs would be Capture NX-D, RawTherapee, Silkypix, Camera Raw, Monochrome2DNG, Aftershot, and even once in a while the dreadful Hyper-Utility (for my Fuji S3/S5). Most of these are more than snappy enough on my work stations.
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Am I the only one that fells that Capture NX-D is very close to unusable due to the slow speed?
It is slow on my Mac. Useable, but annoying.
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D800, V1 - Capture nx2 or photoshop
x-T3 - capture one, or photoshop
for astrophotography
iridient x transform is needed to convert x-t3 raw files to tif before deep sky stacker
deep sky stacker can ingest nikon raw files for my d800 or v1
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Capture NX-D....is very slow on my iMac, where LR runs reasonable fast.
Am I the only one that fells that Capture NX-D is very close to unusable due to the slow speed?
I don't find NX-D unusably slow. For me it has many usability issues and some parts are noticeably slower than others.
Ironically I got a replacement Win 10 PC recently and treated myself to 16Gb RAM, thinking this would improve performance of sound editing and photo PP.
NX-D performance seems unchanged :(
I abandoned LR some years ago for other reasons, but from time to time use PS Elements for some tasks.
This has a noticeable pause of 5+ seconds after starting, before it responds to mouseclicks.