NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: MEPER on March 25, 2020, 17:17:09
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During a break from homework and inspired from the other threads using unusual lenses on Nikon digital bodies I remembered I had a vintage Voigtländer Septon 50/2 lens and an adapter for it also. I took a couple of test shots just to determine if lens was useable or not. First impression is positive. Lens sharp and nice colors. Has a bit of field curvature as only flaw I have found so far. Also sharpness at full aperture and bokeh is ok. Couple of images attached included a 100% crop for each. I have not been out on the street so images shot out of window and inside living room. 100% crop from inside picture is the computer monitor. Lens has a very nice built quality. Think lens deserves to be tested more?
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Yes, nice lens. I have one too, on a Bessamatic.
Do you use a cheap Chinese DKL-Nikon F adapter? Without problems?
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Yes, A nice lens and the lens was also attached to a Bessamatic. I gave away the Bessamatic and kept the lens.
I think it is just a cheap DKL-Nikon F adapter. It has apertures 1.8 - 22 to select from with clicks. It seems to work. It can be a little hard to get the lens to click into place so it is fixed.
I have another adapter made by a company from GB. It holds the lens with set screws and the aperture if fixed when you has inserted the lens (aperture selected by turning the lens in the adapter before it is fixed by the set screws). I use that adapter for a Color-Skopar X 50/2.8 lens.
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Thanks for the explanation. No Infinity problems then?
I was thinking to use it on the Nikon Z-camera's and have two adapter options as a direct DKL-to Z is not there yet. The DKL-to F and connect via the FTZ. Or the DKL-42M and connect via my macro-adapter to Z. That last option had advantages as the close-focus distance of most Septons is a 90cm. The DKL-F has the advantage to use on the other Nikon Camera's
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With the DKL and the special made adapter I am able to infinity focus so it works well.
I also have a Voigtländer Super-Dynarex 135/4 I could try. It is a cheap lens on the 2nd market but it may be a fine lens.
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Nice old lens, looks like great fun to explore it more, it definitely is capable of a vintage look ;)
On a side note,,,
Funny to be able to instantly recognize the exact location just from the air raid shelters in the second image ::) ;D I happen to pass that area sometimes ;)
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Yes, I should find time to go out and find out more about the lens!
Bokeh seems fine.
The 2nd image is shot from my balcony. I have many of those images as it is easy if the purpose is just a test :-)
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A quick shot with the H. P20 the Bessamatic - Voigtlander Septon 50mm f/2. Now waiting for the adapter to arrive from China (with all the delays)
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The Septon is a very nice lens. I have seen many fine images on the web shot with this lens.
Relative sharp wide open and very nice bokeh.
The designers probably knew what they did many years ago. Think the lens is from 1966.
7 elements (not surprising that is why it is called septon) in 5 groups:
http://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_4809.html
The scores it quite good but don't know what is "behind" the scores.
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Thank you for the information:
Also here lots of information is to be found:
http://www.der-klinterklater.de/lanskop.html#septon (http://www.der-klinterklater.de/lanskop.html#septon)
The original Bessamatic was made between 1959 and 1962. With an original price of nearly 470 DEM in 1959. The Septon lens nearly three times more expensive than the original 50mm, the Color Skopar.
On this website some tests with the lens were performed:
https://www.digicamclub.de/showthread.php?t=15899&page=4 (https://www.digicamclub.de/showthread.php?t=15899&page=4)
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OK.....so first version was from 1959 with 0.9 m close distance and from 1965 is was 0.6 m.
I also have a Prominent camera with original Ultron, Nokton and Color-Skopar. I tried to find a Z-adapter that could mount the lenses but could not find it but it is possible via two adapters. Either Prominent to Leica M or Prominent to 39mm. I read one place that the Septon design originates from the Ultron. The Ultron 50/2 for the Prominent is also a nice lens.
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The Prototype for the Voigtlander Septon is the Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f2.0.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voigtl%C3%A4nder_Bessamatic
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voigtl%C3%A4nder_Bessamatic)
Zeiss worked together with Voigtlander at that time, resulting in two Voigtlander lenses: The Septon 50/2 and the Colour Ultron 50/2.8
Unfortunately there is no direct Z-adapter, but I guess change the mouth to a Nikon F gives more options for use. Connection with the FTZ has advantages with regard correct tagging. ( Non-CPU lens-data works better with the FTZ-adapter)
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I have many adapters on the way from GB and China and will wait to see what I get as it is hard to remember but think I should be able to mount a classic Ultron on the Z50 which is also under way :-)
I have been searching this link which was previous "Taunusreiter":
http://www.klassik-cameras.de/Bessa_RF_histo_dt.html#Septon
There is a lot of interesting information about classic cameras and lenses.
What I think is very impressing is the Color-Skopar 50/3.5 for the Prominent. It is almost an APO lens?
A bit down the page "Color-Skopar 2.8 order 3.5" is written that the max. color derivation for the 50/3.5 is 1.5 "winkelsekunden" which should mean that if you make a x400 enlargement then the max. color error (must be in the far corner) will be 0.1mm. It requires something when lens is assembled. But maybe those specifications are quite normal for primes.
There are also mentioned 1964 prices and Septon was close to 300 DM.
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Yesterday I was out on a short walk with D5200 + Septon to test a little more how lens performs. Three images attached with 100% crops of each. The first image is with full aperture. I tried to focus on the tree to the right to evaluate bokeh of the lens and also to verify sharpness. I can see that I may not have nailed 100% focus on the tree. I used center sensor for MF and reframed afterwards. This is not the right to do it also taking into account that lens has a bit of field curvature. But I think it shows that lens may be sharp enough for portraits at full aperture. Now I got a Z50 body so interesting to see how MF works using this body. The next two images are with lens stopped down a bit. Think it shows that lens is quite sharp.
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You will also 'fool' the light metering when you re-frame after focusing, unless you are in full manual mode.
For lens testing I would switch to Live View for consistency until you get the Z50 ;)
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I was on full manuel mode. Think it is the only way I could get D5200 to work with lenses/adapters with no contacts. So I used the histogram to check exposure. Sometimes it is quite nice to be in 100% control like in the old days. Z50 came yesterday. In the documentation for FTZ adapter they write that non-AI lenses are not compatible and they may destroy contacts. I can't see the reason for that as the difference between AI and non-AI lenses in general is not what is inside the adapter which could damage the contacts. Then they mention some very old lenses by name which is incompatible. But a non-AI 50/2 works as good as AI'ed version of same lens as I see it without having tried it out other than non-AI lenses mounts nicely. The body will not see any difference between the two. I have noticed a small black switch on the F-side of the adapter which is placed just outside the mount and can see if I mount a more modern lens like AFD 85/1.4 this switch will be activated. But no difference between older non-AI/AI. I assume that stop down exposure method is used for both types of old lenses like I do now with Septon on D5200 via an adapter.
I find it difficult to use live view. The sunlight can cause that it is difficult to see what it going on and I can hold camera more steady using optical finder. So look forward to use Z50.
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The Septon is a gem, I call three of it my own and use it with the F4 and D700.
It is excellent for B&W use and I like the Bokeh of it.
BTW: all Voigtländer lenses for the Bessamatic sytem are good usable lenses, very interesting is the Zoomar 36-82 f/2.8
I love the lens destorsions of it :o
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The Septon 50/2 is not bad. The Color Ultron 50/1.8 is much much better.
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This is an analouge cyanotype print copy of a digital image I made with the Septon lens. Self coated Fabriano water colour paper.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7840/32339376637_53292b141d_h.jpg)
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very interesting is the Zoomar 36-82 f/2.8
I love the lens destorsions of it :o
Nice colours too?
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Nice colours too?
For analouge film the colours nice, in digital use it has colour shifts. I use it in B&W only
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On the Zf and posted in the Daily November 2025
(https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11365.0;attach=68465;image)
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The Septon works great on the Nikon Zf. Here two interior shots. Despite it's 90cm minimum focus distance.. (the last picture is obviously cropped)
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The Septon is a nice lens. I have not tried it yet on my Z50.
It can make some nice "portraits" of Rembrandt paintings?
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Yes. It's a very sharp lens. Little distortion and LoCa. Weaknesses are flare and vignetting
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Flare and Vignetting 'in action' ;)
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It is a sharp lens. I just put it on my Z50 with DKL to F adapter + F-Z adapter.
I took a test image at closest focus distance stopped down a bit.
Picture attached + 100% crop.
I will try it one day for real images. It also has a pleasant bokeh. It has 52mm filter adapter so I have plenty of shades that will prevent flare :-)
I have wondered why the Summicron for Leica R (50/2) are sold at rather high prices like 300 Euros.
Can it do something the Voigtländer Septon or Ultron can't do? ......or even the Nikkor-H 50/2?
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The Nikkor AI 50mm f/2 is the best one.
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The Nikkor AI 50mm f/2 is the best one.
Except its bokeh. Sexangular point lights are ugly.
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Except its bokeh. Sexangular point lights are ugly.
That's true. Most 50/2 lenses are not perfect in the bokeh-department ;)
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The Septon looks like a pentagon shape with a little bit rounded blades.
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Maybe Richard would be able to make rounded iris blades for the Nikkor-H 50/2?
https://richardhaw.com/2019/08/24/repair-fabricating-iris-blades/ (https://richardhaw.com/2019/08/24/repair-fabricating-iris-blades/)
I think I would be satisfied by one that has a fixed 5.6 aperture that were perfect round. It would work fine on Z-bodies. I have a number of the 50/2.
The old Voigtländer box camera I have the aperture consist of 3 different sizes of perfect circular holes that can be "rotated" into the right place.
An advantage of TLR/rangefinders that they do not need a stop-down aperture like most SLR's.
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That's true. Most 50/2 lenses are not perfect in the bokeh-department ;)
After trying a number of different 50mm Nikkors I settled on the the AI 50/1.8 as having the best bokeh (and good resolution too). It has a 7-blade aperture so out of focus highlights in the background or foreground have a more organic 7-side shape. The background bokeh is also smoother without double-line blurs, although it gets worse towards the edges of the image. I never tried the 58/1.2 Noct but I gather that has good bokeh also.
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My 58/1.2 has slept on a shelf for many years. It could be fun to take a walk some day with it on my Z50.
It is night now so only an indoor image was possible just for demonstration. The bokeh is quite nice.
The attached image shot at aperture f/2. The challenge is to hit focus where it should be.
I wonder how good IBIS works with pure MF lenses. No IBIS in Z50.
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After trying a number of different 50mm Nikkors I settled on the the AI 50/1.8 as having the best bokeh (and good resolution too). It has a 7-blade aperture so out of focus highlights in the background or foreground have a more organic 7-side shape. The background bokeh is also smoother without double-line blurs, although it gets worse towards the edges of the image. I never tried the 58/1.2 Noct but I gather that has good bokeh also.
Yes, the 58/1.2 has a nice bokeh too, not just wide open. But the best in this department may be the Zeiss 50/2 (Milvus - much better coatings), and in all others as well. Only drawback was its size and weight. On the Df it used to be my top choice, then came the Summicron R 50/2 (alas, with outdated coatings, hence high flare potential) ; rendering is more subtle than the Zeiss; a classy lens. My third choice was the 50/2 AI, imperfect, but an "it" lens; its recessed front lens is a bonus outdoors. Then, the 50/1.2 AI which I used for street shots, esp. demonstrations and similar, don't ask me why.
For some reason I only recently got a decent copy of the 50/1.8 AI (together with an FE), but I did not use it extensively.
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Here's another example of Noct Nikkor Bokeh (58/1.2 AIS, so 9 blades, @ f/2). No soap bubbles, no fringes, no outlining. Just nice brush strokes, both in front and at the back.
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This is the Septon at f/2 (wide open) so it can be compared with the Noct a few posts back.
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Nikkor-H here at f/2 (wide open). A version with rubber. K-version I think it is called. The "H" is not mentioned.
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The background looks quite different, but apparently this is most due to a slightly different shooting angle, resulting in the reflection on the metallic bar becoming apparent, instead of being mostly masked by the camera. Otherwise the background bokeh is slightly more "edgy" with the septon or the Nikkor-H, compared to the Noct.
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Yes, this is the native Z 50/1.8 S at f/2. Not bad either?
I think this lens is cheap for what you get.
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The classic Voigtländer 50/2 Ultron rangefinder lens for the Prominent camera. Probably a 1955 lens or so. Also here at f/2 (wide open).
Bokeh quite good. Good on all lenses but some has just a bit more creamy look.
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Leica DR Summicon at f/2 (wide open). Also a lens from 1955 or so.
Seems to be difficult to make a 50mm lens with really bad bokeh.
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I think the noct wins the bokeh competition based on these snaps. It also has the +8 mm of focal length bagground isolation advantage.
To be able to compare these lenses for real a more controlled setup is needed. This was just some fun made quick and dirty a late night :-)