NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Airy on September 17, 2019, 11:20:58
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Sometimes, I wish Nikon had something like that - native, compact MF lenses for Z mount :
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/09/16/this-chinese-brightin-star-55mm-f-1-8-lens-for-nikon-z-mount-is-99.aspx/#more-138484
Looking at the price, I'd be ready to give that one a try (with relatively low expections, and lots of room for a pleasant surprise).
I guess there is no aperture follower. There seem to be no electrical contacts on the rear mount.
I would have expected a simpler, more symmetrical lens formula. Added complexity plus low price raise doubts on my side.
By the way, my first hands-on experience with a Nikon Z7 was using the Noct and a 50mm Summicron-R. Nice pairings, even though the adapter adds to the bulk.
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The more popular the Z cameras become, the more third party brands will be interested in offering Z mount lenses. What is good about the full manual lenses is that the manufacturers don't need to worry about the compatibility in the electric domain. If they don't need to care about it, the lens can be made cheaper.
On the user side, whether you can live without the EXIF data recording and whether you can focus with the lens wide open and then stop down without frustration would be the two major factors to consider.
I'm not sure if Nikon has disclosed or lisenced their proprietary info on the electric system of Z mount to third party manufacturers. No one has released or at least announced the release of the fully compatible AF lenses yet?
Apparently, Nikon is currently more into cooperating with video industry rather than the third party lens companies.
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Sometimes, I wish Nikon had something like that - native, compact MF lenses for Z mount :
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/09/16/this-chinese-brightin-star-55mm-f-1-8-lens-for-nikon-z-mount-is-99.aspx/#more-138484
Looking at the price, I'd be ready to give that one a try (with relatively low expections, and lots of room for a pleasant surprise).
I guess there is no aperture follower. There seem to be no electrical contacts on the rear mount.
I would have expected a simpler, more symmetrical lens formula. Added complexity plus low price raise doubts on my side.
By the way, my first hands-on experience with a Nikon Z7 was using the Noct and a 50mm Summicron-R. Nice pairings, even though the adapter adds to the bulk.
f/1.8-lens with a MTF-chart at f/1.4 ... interesting ... doesn't the price speak for bad glass, bad mechanics, bad coating?
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It's all about how it renders the scene for lenses like this one,,, If one has a special need for such a look,,, in such a compact package ;)
Yes intriguing MTF diagram,,,, ::) :o
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... and, according to the same MTF chart, performance at f/1.4 is better than at f/5.6.
My oh my.
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no thanks, ill just stick with my LTM Nikkors :o :o :o
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I would like to see more affordable MF lenses for the Z line!
Manually focusing is easy with the mirrorless cameras, especially for someone with less than average eye sight. I thought about the Viltrox 20mm but did not buy it because of the sample variation risk.
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With the plethora of manual 50s available, I'm surprised new ones continue to hit the market.
If only Nikon began a range of manual Z primes. A handful of pancake lenses would pair so well with the Zs. I'm aware I am an outlier, but it's a shame that even though I just purchased a Z6, Nikon will not be getting lens money from me. I would suffer an AF focus ring if the lens was good, but fly-by-wire? Good Lord no.
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With the plethora of manual 50s available, I'm surprised new ones continue to hit the market.
If only Nikon began a range of manual Z primes. A handful of pancake lenses would pair so well with the Zs. I'm aware I am an outlier, but it's a shame that even though I just purchased a Z6, Nikon will not be getting lens money from me. I would suffer an AF focus ring if the lens was good, but fly-by-wire? Good Lord no.
Outlier += 1
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I purchased a similar concept lens for my Fujifilm X. It was a "Meike" 35/1.8 of Chinese manufacture, sold for US$90 new. Optically, it's useable. Mechanically, it's pretty bad.
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I would have expected a simpler, more symmetrical lens formula. Added complexity plus low price raise doubts on my side.
It's basically a standard double-gauss design, but with an extra convex element out front. Given the variety of optical designs we have these days, it is reasonably simple and symmetrical, overall not unlike the AI 50/1.4 or AI 50/1.8. Close focus limit is similar too, so nothing outstanding here, except that you can mount it direct to your Z camera instead of using the AI lens with FTZ adaptor.
Note, even the Z 50/1.8 is a double-gauss lens at heart, the central 6 elements follow the classic design, but with extra elements front and rear.
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You are certainly right, but I'd have expected, for the price, and even simpler 6/4 design, the kind that has proven successful on rangefinder cameras, if I'm not mistaken. One of my best F-mount fifties (Summicron R) is also a 6/4 design, the two lanthanium elements being the sole unusual feature...
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look at the MTF charts...looks like the guy who did it is either as busy as me or is abusing recreational substance :o :o :o
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look at the MTF charts...looks like the guy who did it is either as busy as me or is abusing recreational substance :o :o :o
I'm sure the company's inability to produce a plausible MTF chart has no correlation with their competence at designing optical instruments. ::)
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There are small options with existing 45/50mm lenses on the Z6/Z7 like the 45 p and the 50/1.8 pancake. Also the E-series are pretty small (in 28mm and 35mm too.) The Nikkors 20mm f/4.0, f/3.5 and f/2.8 Ai-S are also very compact.
earlier posted in -september 2019 https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=8828.0 (https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=8828.0)
(https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8828.0;attach=41038;image)
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There are small options with existing 45/50mm lenses on the Z6/Z7 like the 45 p and the 50/1.8 pancake. Also the E-series are pretty small (in 28mm and 35mm too.) The Nikkors 20mm f/4.0, f/3.5 and f/2.8 Ai-S are also very compact.
Added bulk/weight from FTZ, no aperture in the exif and no rangefinder focus confirmation. FTZ is also ugly, shame on such a beautifully designed body. The FTZ in that pic looks ~3x the size of the pancake mounted on it. Still worth the platform, but certainly not ideal.
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Sure, and I'd like to add the Voigtländer 40/2 to the list of "legacy pancake". But my point is different. It is about having native lenses, taking advantage:
- of the short registration length
- of the electrical contacts (not yet the case here, obviously)
and not following the general trend "the heavier, the bulkier, the better".
I was quite pleased with the OM-D and assorted smaller lenses, and having a FF equivalent system would fulfill my wettest dreams. It seems that Nikon has not released the specs for the Z mount interface (see Tamron interview), so I do not expect Zeiss or Voigtländer to fill the gap anytime soon. I wonder what Nikon's intentions are. Mechanical compatibility with F-mount lenses is good to have, but does not tell about the future.
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Yes agreed. It is a 'current' work-around.
The 45P is chipped by the way, the Voigtlander 58/1,4 too and will register aperture in Exif.
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Indeed, and that applies to all current F-mount Zeiss and Voigtländers. But Zeiss does not bake pancakes...
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I wonder what Nikon's intentions are.
Undoubtedly it is fleshing out the S line with wide profit margin products to offset a shrinking market and get the Z mount up to speed. I doubt we will see Nikon make a foray into a manual lineup until a solid base of Z mount lenses is established, but they would be absolute fools not to do so. The sheer number of mount adapters on the market is irrefutable proof that manual lens operation is very popular. B & H alone lists 2,024 mount adapters, Ebay likely has another few thousand, which actually exceeds the number of lenses they list! 831 for MILC, 909 for DSLR for a total of 1,740. Considering the simplicity of design, relative to AF lenses, a range of manual lenses could easily have a wider profit margin than their AF brethren as well.
I would like to see a polarized approach to lens design from Nikon. Continue taking the S line in the contemporary direction of sterile perfection across the board at the cost of bulk, and begin a manual line that favors character and mechanical ergonomics while improving the defects no one appreciates. If, for example, Nikon produced a Z mount version of the 50/1.2 ai-s that maintained a degree of aberration for that lovely wide-open glow, while correcting the field curvature and distortion, they would sell hoards. The vast adapter market makes it clear there is quite an appetite for manual lenses. "Corrected" native manual lenses would be a home run, I would bet money on it.
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Nikon should be capable of packaging AFP into prime optics with a much more compact chassis for the Z-mount. Today it is the rare exception for a lens to not include at least a couple of ED and aspherical elements. These have been standard in more affordable kit lenses for many years, and we read the Z-mount overcomes R&D challenges for wide and normal lenses. Classic MF optics will continue have a fruitful life on the latest electronic cameras, but many of us find AF extremely useful. There's the tendency for emerging photographers to expect AF
Perhaps squeezing a Z-Mount prime down into the dinky size of a 45 f2.8AIP is not possible (the F-mount is a tessar design). But why not give us wide or normal primes approximating the dimensions of a 28 f2AIS or 28 f2.8AIS. These will be more than wonderful on a Z MILC. Two or three of complementary focal lengths (yes, Rorslett's Rule) will delight many for a lighter compact Nikon system for travel and many other genres. Many of the instructive discussions wrt building an optimal lens for the Nikon Df hold true for these compact and capable Z Nikon MILCs eg http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,2141.msg25329.html#msg25329
Such a family of slower "Traveler's" Z-Nikkor primes can ultimately be populated with: 20 f2, 28 f2.8, 35 f2, 45 f2, 85 f2, 105 f2.5, 135 f2.8. Perhaps a 180 f2.8 to round off the options. Personally, I seek 20 f2, 45 f2, 105 f2.5 and perhaps 180 f2.8 :-) Each and every one of these optics will perpetuate legendary Classic F-Nikkors. If Nikon ignore this market, we can expect 3rd party optical designers to seize it. All the better if they rvs engineer the Nikon Z-AF protocols
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Nikon should be capable of packaging AFP into prime optics with a much more compact chassis for the Z-mount.
Then we wouldn't have a reason for a Z-mount MF lens thread, would we? ;)
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But why not give us wide or normal primes approximating the dimensions of a 28 f2AIS or 28 f2.8AIS. These will be more than wonderful on a Z MILC.
I'm for this, but including AF starts you on the road to bloated barrels, like the current f/1.8 "lower end" F-mount primes.
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I have been using all sorts of manual focus lenses on my Nikon Z6 from the early 1950s and on. I have used all sorts of projector lenses (Schneider, ISCO, Leitz), a wide variety of M39, M42 and Exakta mount lenses. Including many Soviet lenses, DDR lenses, Zuiko, Pentacon, Pentax, Sonnar, Pentax 6x7 to name a few. I am having a blast. I started out using the Z to whatever adapters that you can easily find on ebay and Amazon. But then I switched over to helicoids and I like them much better. Mainly because I can use them like a macro bellows and get much closer focusing than what the lenses were made for.
I do also have the Dandelion chips for some of the fixed adapters that go into the FTZ adapter and that is nice, particularly when I use some the the AI chipless mount lenses such as the Zenitar 16mm f/2.8. This give me control of the aperture via the camera controls.
But for the majority of the lenses, I use manual focusing with the helicoid with not camera electronic or otherwise connection. Up until a few days ago, I had not way to update the lens exif data in the raw .NEF files. Now I do. Check out this free piece of software. https://www.jazzycamel.photography/NameThatLens and it runs on Linux, Mac and Windows as a standalone. In windows I found that I needed to run it as Administrator. It works great and it allow my photo editing software (ON1 Photoraw) to allow me to play with other predefined lenses once I get editing.
As far as lens adapters and helicoid adapters (not the helicoids themselves, but anything you want to stick on the front of it. This is the guy for me. https://www.rafcamera.com/
Kevin
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Thanks Kevin for your helpful addition. Which Helicoid size is your preferable solution for the projection lenses? a 52mm thread?
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The Z needs 65mm.
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Any suggestions for a good helicoid for a mount? Would like to learn from those who have made it work.
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https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=8146.msg146591;topicseen#new (https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?topic=8146.msg146591;topicseen#new)
Here is another thread on that ;)