NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: chambeshi on August 29, 2018, 11:24:05

Title: The Z-mount
Post by: chambeshi on August 29, 2018, 11:24:05
interesting interview - the summary gives much more than about the new mirrorless cameras

"....The biggest consideration by far was what the large diameter and short depth would do for optical quality, in terms of center resolution, corner-to-corner sharpness, reduced shading (vignetting), reduced optical aberrations and improved AF coverage. My impression was that huge-aperture capability was something that largely came along for the ride."

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/08/28/nikon-z7-engineer-interview-deep-dive-q
 (https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/08/28/nikon-z7-engineer-interview-deep-dive-q)
more an the Z System here - https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf (https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mdwZQz5w==/Misc/Z_Engineer_Interview_Brochure.pdf)
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Bent Hjarbo on August 29, 2018, 14:29:04
Thanks for posting  :)
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Birna Rørslett on August 29, 2018, 15:08:40
Interesting read, albeit with some technical inaccuracies in particular concerning the concept of 'telecentricity'.
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Roland Vink on August 30, 2018, 00:15:52
With the large diameter mount and shallow flange distance, isn't the sensor very vulnerable to damage? I imagine it would be relatively easy to touch with fingers. If the user is careless, holding the lens at the wrong angle while mounting, could a rear corner touch the sensor? You would think the designers would have considered this ??
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Lorne on August 30, 2018, 02:12:32
With the large diameter mount and shallow flange distance, isn't the sensor very vulnerable to damage?

I assume you mean whilst cleaning - wouldn't it be the shutter that is more vulnerable?

On the other hand, it ought to be a lot easier to clean the sensor.
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: MILLIREHM on August 30, 2018, 09:58:54
More care while lens-changing appears to be recommendable
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Akira on August 30, 2018, 18:58:57
I've used various mirrorless cameras and always wonder why nobody would make a camera on which the shutter curtain is closed while the lens is detached in order to protect the sensor.  But maybe it would rather be more likely that the closed (and very hard) shutter curtain would scratch the sensor if you inadvertently touch it.   :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: gryphon1911 on August 30, 2018, 21:05:53
I've used various mirrorless cameras and always wonder why nobody would make a camera on which the shutter curtain is closed while the lens is detached in order to protect the sensor.  But maybe it would rather be more likely that the closed (and very hard) shutter curtain would scratch the sensor if you inadvertently touch it.   :o :o :o

I wonder if the shutter mechanism is more prone to damage from accidental touch?   If I touch the sensor with my finger, that is easy to clean with a wet cleaning kit.  If i touch and bend the shutter, then I potentially have an issue with a non-functioning camera.

I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember back when the Fuji XE1 first came out reading a story regarding incorrect shutter actuation counts.  This was because the cameras were counting the shutter movements during power on/off cycles and I believe they were incorrectly counting electronic shutter actuations as well.  So, if the shutter were to close and open during power cycle operations, does that count against your shutter actuation count?  Should it?

Just pondering some things with this.     
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Akira on August 30, 2018, 22:02:42
I wonder if the shutter mechanism is more prone to damage from accidental touch?   If I touch the sensor with my finger, that is easy to clean with a wet cleanijng kit.  IF Ito Uchiha and bend the shutter, then I potentially have an issue with a non-functioning camera.

I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember back when the Fuji XE1 first came out reading a story regarding incorrect shutter actuation counts.  This was because the cameras were counting the shutter movements during power on/off cycles and I believe they were incorrectly counting electronic shutter actuations as well.  So, if the shutter were to close and open during power cycle operations, does that count against your shutter actuation count?  Should it?

Just pondering some things with this.   

I would agree that the shutter mechanism is more prone to cause problems.

As for the shutter count issue, it should rather be a matter of the software.  Or the transient noise of the power-on could have been erratically counted as one shutter actuation?  During the proper operation, the camera should tell the difference between the electronic and mechanical.

I also wonder how they manage to keep the exposed sensor from the influence of natural elements during the lens change, if the high-end models of any brand are intended for the replacements of, say, Nikon D-one-digit or Canon 1D series?
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: CS on August 31, 2018, 00:17:10
I wonder if the shutter mechanism is more prone to damage from accidental touch?   If I touch the sensor with my finger, that is easy to clean with a wet cleanijng kit.  IF Ito Uchiha and bend the shutter, then I potentially have an issue with a non-functioning camera.

I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember back when the Fuji XE1 first came out reading a story regarding incorrect shutter actuation counts.  This was because the cameras were counting the shutter movements during power on/off cycles and I believe they were incorrectly counting electronic shutter actuations as well.  So, if the shutter were to close and open during power cycle operations, does that count against your shutter actuation count?  Should it?

Just pondering some things with this.   

I thought the shutter count was a way to keep track of the mechanical movement of the shutter mechanism by way  of the number of times it actuates. If that's correct then why it actuates is hardly relevant. Or, so it seems to me.
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: pluton on August 31, 2018, 04:42:13
I've had a Fuji XE-1 since 2013 and over 100K [estimated] shots.
The Fuji XE-1, even with its shallow mirrorless flange depth, never picked up as much dust on the sensor as my D800 cameras, which themselves never picked as much dust as my old D3 cams.
The XE-1, and apparently many other Fujifilm X cameras, has no shutter actuation count available to the consumer...I don't know if it has an internal, secret actuation count only accessible to the technicians.
As for fingers touching the sensor, my fingers seem always to be very busy holding two lenses and a body during lens changes.  I have, very rarely, had visible airborne debris float into the chamber and onto the sensor during lens changes.
When the Fuji XE-1 is turned off, the shutter is open...which makes cleaning the sensor much less of a hassle than with a DSLR.
I presume most ML cams are this way.
I wonder if the shutters in the Z6 and Z7 be 'default open' as in the other ML cams?
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Birna Rørslett on August 31, 2018, 09:10:53
"I wonder if the shutters in the Z6 and Z7 be 'default open' as in the other ML cams?"

Yes, they are.
Title: Re: The Z-mount
Post by: Hugh_3170 on August 31, 2018, 14:36:54
Likewise I have had no dust issues with my Olympus OMD E-M1 Mk 1 and Mk 2 cameras, which are of course also mirrorless. These two cameras seem to be quite dust resistant, although I still exercise care when changing lenses to lessen the chance of getting dust into them.

I've had a Fuji XE-1 since 2013 and over 100K [estimated] shots.
The Fuji XE-1, even with its shallow mirrorless flange depth, never picked up as much dust on the sensor as my D800 cameras, which themselves never picked as much dust as my old D3 cams.
The XE-1, and apparently many other Fujifilm X cameras, has no shutter actuation count available to the consumer...I don't know if it has an internal, secret actuation count only accessible to the technicians.
As for fingers touching the sensor, my fingers seem always to be very busy holding two lenses and a body during lens changes.  I have, very rarely, had visible airborne debris float into the chamber and onto the sensor during lens changes.
When the Fuji XE-1 is turned off, the shutter is open...which makes cleaning the sensor much less of a hassle than with a DSLR.
I presume most ML cams are this way.
I wonder if the shutters in the Z6 and Z7 be 'default open' as in the other ML cams?