NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Patrick Berg-Pedersen on February 19, 2018, 08:01:34
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Hi all
Bjørn has bought another apartment so he’s moving his last things these days, and I cannot stop thinking about what’s the matter with my D810 images, and since my dearest Bjørn is away and can’t answer my questions in a few seconds -as usual, I just have to ask you guys, as I just cannot stop thinking about this..
These are three raw images from my D810 imported as usual into Lr CC classic, the vertical one is the only one a bit edited, the two others I’ve only saved to jpeg to show you my headache reason...
Firstly, I want to ask; Do you see it? ??? ?
My wife can’t see it immediately but after I point it out, she does.. I won’t point it out to you right yet, but look at the images and comment. There’s an artefact on all three images that just flashes in my eyes, and ruins the entire image, I cannot use these..
If you see it, WHAT IS THIS? ???
I’ve had this issue earlier with the D3X, the D800E, (and perhaps with some others cameras), but then it didn’t show before I had edited the shots quite a bit..
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Tell me you see it!!???!!???...🧐😱😱😨😰😰😥
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Do you mean the impression of dark vertical banding most obvious towards the right side but also visible on the left?
If so, try one of: look at a magnified view of those areas - I used Preview on my Mac; bring the image up in Lightroom or equivalent and use a sheet of plain paper to cover parts of the image where the banding appears.
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I might see something, but it is the same way regardless of the picture orientation, so maybe the artifact comes from the processing in the computer?
I see some wavy stripes in light areas.
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#2 has a big dust spot but that is likely not the issue as I am sure you are familir with those. In #1 there are some subtle vertical stripes/color variations. The strange thing is I see a tendendy for this in #2 but then the stripes are still vertical in the image and not related to the apparent orientation of the sensor. Not sure about #3. That makes me wonder if there is something about the location. The sky sometimes is sensitive to what happens on the ground, for instance in the arctic, the sky over open water is known to have a darker color than the that over ice. It might be a long shot, but could be a similar effect of land v.s sea. In other words, to rule out the location, do you have images from a completely different site showing the same?
(Edited in parallel with Bent's message).
Edit: To rule of the processing side could you try a straight JPG conversion in Capture NX-D or ViewNX-i ?
Edit2: I now see the stripes are extending down into the sea so the land-sea hypothesis effect on the sky is not supported.
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Yes I see the faintest "zebra-stripes" vertical on the outer portions!
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Do you mean the impression of dark vertical banding most obvious towards the right side but also visible on the left?
I can see that, too.
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1) I see some cool nature shots
2) I see some HDR processing: amplification of subtle density variations in the RAW to an extent that can be percieved as disturbing (does not disturb me)
3) I see some JPEG compression artifacts that are most likely caused by saving drafts into a destructive format.
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The streaking could be left from a not so successful sensor cleaning, cleaning marks on the sensor surface, like the dust bunnies,,, if they are in the same spot so to say :)
Could be front glass smudge, if on one lens, if wide angle on even a smear on the rearmost glass element surface.
Yes, not usable,,,
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You can post images up to 2.5MB and or 4000x3000px I believe. I see the banding, but also a lot of artefacts, may be due to the high compression rate.
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Hi guys, and thank you all for your replies, I appreciate each and every one!!
Yes, you guys see it! On my horizontal shots the magenta/red “stripes” runs vertical, but I cannot wrap my head around why it shows up as vertical “stripes” on my vertical shot...
Frank:
It ain’t no HDR! But thanks 🙏 for liking my images, although they’re not developed.. Only the vertical one is edited.
Eric: The sensor has never been cleaned yet, I bought the camera a bit over a year ago and I’ve had a depression that has lasted longer than this, so it’s just a few days ago I began to come out of this depression! So I’m finally back and I’m more than eager to get working full time with photography again! The lens is Bjørns 14-24 2.8, and I used a GND on a few shots and on the longer exposures I used the Little Stopper and GND.
At the end of last years summer I bought a brand new iMac 🖥 5K (with the latest-) -Retina 27” (2017), and because of my depression and anxiety problems I’ve not worked as much as I really would wish.
Now, I got the latest Lr CC Classic (-and the all new edition Lr CC, which I don’t use), Ps CC 2018, Camera raw and Bridge. I have always just imported the images directly into Lr, from the CF card. Then I add them to the destination I want them, and start developing. I don’t copy the files, I add them! (Don’t think this has anything to do with my vertical “stripes” though!)
Anyway, do I need a NEF Codec or what?? I didn’t think I would need a NEF codec as I thought it was already installed on my iMac.
What can possibly be the reason for this artifacts I get on some shots??? It has nothing to do with my long exposures, because it shows on shorter ones too but not as much as on a longer exp.
And no, it’s not only on JPEG it’s on my raw files!
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Definitely the filter!
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Do you mean the impression of dark vertical banding most obvious towards the right side but also visible on the left?
If so, try one of: look at a magnified view of those areas - I used Preview on my Mac; bring the image up in Lightroom or equivalent and use a sheet of plain paper to cover parts of the image where the banding appears.
Yes Les, I mean those vertical banding which is most obvious towards the right side but can also be seen at the other (left) side.
I’ve tried looking at a magnified view but they’re still visible! This is exactly how the raw files are! So it doesn’t come from saving the images to jpg..
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Definitely the filter!
You think so!? I’m not quite sure about that! BUT, could it be that I didn’t cover Bjørn’s 14-24 with a dark cloth or something, and it might leak a bit.. The lens ain’t built for such long exposures, as my 17-35, I had to tape a black tape around the meter/feet indicator window, because it was leaking light in like hell.
It sound right, that it COULD be the filter(s),as I’m seeing it on my vertical shots too, but then again, why am I seeing it on my GND which is clear at the bottom??
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I might see something, but it is the same way regardless of the picture orientation, so maybe the artifact comes from the processing in the computer?
I see some wavy stripes in light areas.
I also believe that the artifacts comes from the Mac processing of the image. Like it doesn’t find a proper new codec for the D810.
Only the vertical shot is edited, the two others are just saved unedited to show you guys this!
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#2 has a big dust spot but that is likely not the issue as I am sure you are familir with those. In #1 there are some subtle vertical stripes/color variations. The strange thing is I see a tendendy for this in #2 but then the stripes are still vertical in the image and not related to the apparent orientation of the sensor. Not sure about #3. That makes me wonder if there is something about the location. The sky sometimes is sensitive to what happens on the ground, for instance in the arctic, the sky over open water is known to have a darker color than the that over ice. It might be a long shot, but could be a similar effect of land v.s sea. In other words, to rule out the location, do you have images from a completely different site showing the same?
(Edited in parallel with Bent's message).
Edit: To rule of the processing side could you try a straight JPG conversion in Capture NX-D or ViewNX-i ?
Edit2: I now see the stripes are extending down into the sea so the land-sea hypothesis effect on the sky is not supported.
Øivind; I’m going to download Capture NX-D and View NX-i to my Mac now. So to see if I’ll get the same vertical magenta/red “stripes” there. Then I know the issue!
The dust spots I just didn’t bother to remove since I just wanted to show you guys these strange artifacts! 😉😊😊👍🏼👍🏼
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Maybe make the original NEF available (from the first picture, for example) and I have a try with my Lr Classic CC and Macbook Pro.
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Definitely the filter!
Erik!!!!!!! YOU WERE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!! It was the GND 6 (with Very Hard graduation) a new filter from my sponsor, LEE Filters.. I laid the filter on a white paper and it is FULL of stripes, even at the bottom there’s a really huge one going this time horizontally!!
So thank you Erik, for making me look properly into this !!! I’d better call them right away!
THANKS SO MUCH!!
It’s sad though because I can’t use these images! I would really like to, but not when they have these stripes!!
But, I cannot thank you enough!!!!🙏🙏🙏😊😊😊👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️😍😍😍🙏🙏🙏😊😊😁😁😁😄😆
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I think it is an optical illusion. Neurons in the retina have what is called lateral inhibition: they are inhibited when adjacent neurons fire. So a neuron that looks at the centre of a bright patch is inhibited relative to a neuron that looks at a dark-light interface because the neuron at the interface is inhibited on one side instead of both. The result is edge enhancement, but when adjacent areas have only slightly different luminance you see illusory darker and lighter bands where the areas meet. This causes Mach bands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_bands) and the Cornsweet Illusion and I think that is what we are all seeing.
If you cover up one edge of one of the dark bands with a piece of paper the other edge disappears.
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Ok guys, Erik solved the problem!!!
It was my GND Filter, when I look at it with my eyes I can clearly see the “stripes” are on the filter! On the bottom at the clear side of the GND it also has a huge horizontally “stripe” it really looks awful and I cannot understand why I didn’t see this before I used it! Luckily this was one of my first times using the new very hard grad GND 0.6 !
Thanks Erik and you all, for helping me out!! I appreciate each and one of you!!
I love this community!!😊🙏👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️😍😍‼️
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Erik has become Dr Lens + Filter :D
Glad the mystery is solved!
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....
It was my GND Filter, when I look at it with my eyes I can clearly see the “stripes” are on the filter! On the bottom at the clear side of the GND it also has a huge horizontally “stripe” it really looks awful and I cannot understand why I didn’t see this before I used it! Luckily this was one of my first times using the new very hard grad GND 0.6 !...
Hi Patrick. Will you return the lens filter to the manufacturer ?
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Adding a bit of noise in Photoshop can often mitigate the appearance of banding-type artifacts. Ann might have some details on the best settings, so I suggest asking her. If this works, then you would be able to use your photos.
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I also believe that the artifacts comes from the Mac processing of the image. Like it doesn’t find a proper new codec for the D810.
Only the vertical shot is edited, the two others are just saved unedited to show you guys this!
Just for clarity, if you are using Lightroom to open, view, and 'Develop' the files, the Mac raw converter is not involved.
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You may be getting some light bounce between the lens' elements, filter &/or sensor, producing the odd stripes. You stated this happened with different cameras. Perhaps, were you using the same glass stack, (lens) that picked up the undesired stuff.
Nonetheless, great images. Whenever I clean a mirror or the back window of my home, I seem only to focus on the spot that I missed.
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Hi Patrick. Will you return the lens filter to the manufacturer ?
LEE Filters are my main sponsor, and I recently received a whole bunch of new filters for the SW-150 MkII system, which is designed to use with ultra wide lenses. In comparison to the most used filter range, the 100mm system which measures 100x100mm and the GND’s measures 100X150mm, the graduated filters for the SW-150 are 150x170mm and the Little Stopper, Big Stopper, and the Super Stopper, Polariser and so on, are 150x150mm.
The filter I used on these shots were actually a GND Hard grad 6, not a Very Hard Grad, as I believe I wrote yesterday. And this is one of my most used GND’s on the 100mm system, luckily I haven’t used this one much on the SW-150 system yet, I’ve used the medium grad 6 and the very hard grad 6 and 9 a lot.
I’ll take a picture of the filter used on the images shown in this post in a couple of hours to show you how contaminated it is, I haven’t received any reply from LEE Filters yet, but I guess I’ll have a phone call during the day. I’ll keep you all posted.
But I have to say, I’ve used A LOT of LEE Filters the past years and this one is the ONLY filter I’ve gotten that has this issue.
I have to thank you all, for all your help, and again I cannot say how much this Nikongear site is guiding me and helping me on my way!! Thanks all ‼️🙏🙏🙏🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
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Thank you for the answer. I'm still surprised by the utilisation of physical filters; I stopped using these since I switched to digital; and solved most of the issues by bracketing and / or post-processing. The only case I would envisage filters is for long exposures. But I'm certainly missing something 😊
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You may be getting some light bounce between the lens' elements, filter &/or sensor, producing the odd stripes. You stated this happened with different cameras. Perhaps, were you using the same glass stack, (lens) that picked up the undesired stuff.
Nonetheless, great images. Whenever I clean a mirror or the back window of my home, I seem only to focus on the spot that I missed.
Yes, it can also leak in through the eyepiece if it's not covered,,,
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I'm late joining this discussion but my guess is the problem is caused by digitally induced reactionary technology. This problem is seldom seen if one's lens is not stopped down below f/8.0.
Dave Hartman
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I'm late joining this discussion but my guess is the problem is caused by digitally induced reactionary technology. This problem is seldom seen if one's lens is not stopped down below f/8.0.
Dave Hartman
In this case, Erik has the correct answer (again). After talking to my contact at LEE Filters I’ve now gotten six new filters, because I found these red stripes on 6 of my GND’s. LEE Filters said that their technician had seen some familiar issues after they released the very first batch of the Field Pouch. The technician said the pouch insert had some color contamination that could color the filters.. I don’t think this is the issue here though.. Because the stripes were going not only vertical but also horizontal.
On my landscape shots I use f14 and 16 mostly, it works without too much diffraction on the 14-24 2.8.
About the light leaks;
On my 17-35 2.8 I had to cover the entire lens, as the focal window let so much light in, we have to remember that most (or all) lenses are NOT made particularly for LE photography, so a (f.i.) five minute exposure WILL without covering the lens (and of course the viewfinder), will be totally ruined by light leaks. That said, I don’t cover the 14-24 2.8 (Nikon, of course..), it just don’t leak, but then again, my longest exposure until now with the 14-24 are around 15 minutes in dim light..
In one of my next posts I’ll show you our new Reversed GND filters. And the new IRND PRO Glass series, which needs absolutely no color correction. One of these are 15 Stops, and I can’t wait to try them out myself.
Here’s a “teaser” for you; If the camera meter says 1/2000, with the 15 Stop filter it’ll be 15 seconds!!! 1/30 in camera = 16 minutes, 1 sec= 8hours, 32 mins, 2 sec= 17 hours, 4 mins!!! (And I got two 15 Stop filters, wonder how that will turn out...🤪😊😉