NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: RobOK on January 09, 2018, 02:31:04
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It seems a Df2 is not coming sadly. I am considering a D750. Anyone who has both, can you compare? Is the low light AF better? What is the viewfinder like on the D750. I think the D750 may get replaced soon, so I might wait for discounts.
Thanks,
Rob
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The D750 is going to be a very good camera for many years to come.
i regret selling mine.
lowlight, they seem to perform the same.
the D750 is the better camera but comparing it to the Df is not fair because the main reason for getting the Df for using it with non-Ai lenses :o :o :o
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Amplifying Richard's remarks, the two cameras are not very comparable. I've hardly shot with my D750, but in terms of controls it's a near clone of the D7xxx cameras I've used for years. Those cameras have a very decent control system, though now that I've been exposed to the pro controls I find these ones a little bit lacking. The D750 is a much better camera for typical digital shooting with autofocus lenses. It offers a lot of other nice features.
By comparison, using the Df is a mixture of joy and frustration. Joy in that it's easy to focus old manual-focus Nikkors using the ground glass, making my collection once more readily accessible for handheld shooting. It reminds me a little of my film days using an FE, except that back then I had a split screen to focus with. The controls are a mixture of F3 and D750. While the shutter speed dial is nice enough, the ISO and exposure compensation dials look nice but are not as easy to use. The mode and front command dial are awkward and frustrating. The front grip is nowhere near as nice as with other Nikon DSLRs. I end up tolerating this camera's shortcomings so I can gain its access to manual focus lenses including the pre-AI ones. It's not a camera for fast shooting or adjusting settings on the fly.
So IMO it comes down to what kind of lenses do you have/want and how do you want to shoot?
-Slow, contemplative handheld shooting, sometimes with manual focus lenses? Df for focusing on the ground glass and access to pre-AI lenses. The quirks will be tolerable because you won't be in a
hurry.
-Shooting on a tripod with magnified live view focusing? D750 for the resolution, features, and flexibility. Better yet, get a D810 or D850.
-Shooting on the fly using autofocus (action or street)? D750 for better AF and ability to quickly change settings while keeping your eye to the viewfinder.
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I had used D7000 and D610, and D750 was the first Nikon DSLR whose AF I could trust. The ground glass is not as efficient as that of Df for manual focus. But if you primarily use AF lenses, D750 is still a very good camera I can recommend.
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I have been using the Df for years, and then I moved over to D750.
I never looked back.
Low light high ISO is about the same.
AF with the Df is troublesome to awful, while the D750 flies.
The ergonomics, the tilted LCD screen, video, the pop-up flash, and the additional pixel count are all advantages in favor of the D750.
The advantages of the Df for me are: better view finder for manual focusing, lighter, and it looks better :)
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The AF module of Df is essentially the same as those of D7000 and D610, so I know I cannot expect too much from it.
I'm not big fan of the classical film camera design (which is solely personal taste, of course), so what I think better about Df over D750 is, again, its manual focus convenience and maybe its softer and simpler shutter sound.
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The difference in resolution is rather big, if you are able to utilise it,,,
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I have been using the Df for years, and then I moved over to D750.
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AF with the Df is troublesome to awful, while the D750 flies.
The ergonomics, the tilted LCD screen, video, the pop-up flash, and the additional pixel count are all advantages in favor of the D750.
The advantages of the Df for me are: better view finder for manual focusing, lighter, and it looks better :)
Interesting that some say AF about the same and you highlight improvements. I have struggled with low light AF (indoor, evening events) with the Df.
Can you or others say more about the viewfinder, is the size different, or just the glass?
To address several of the comments, my style is generally slower and I was drawn to the Df for form and function. I like the dials on the outside concept and use them, but in reality, I am not a fan of the actual implementation of the dials (the front one and the unlock buttons i have never mastered). I had hoped to get more into manual focus and do occasionally but not much.
My previous camera was a D300. What I really want is a D750 (24M full frame) with the controls of the D810/850. It's really frustrating how Nikon mixes the UI up. I think the D850 is too much camera for me, in terms of cost, file size, and weight,
It will be interesting what the next set of cameras brings (750 iteration and potential mirrorless).
thanks for all the input,
Rob.
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I don't believe that anybody could argue that the AF is not improved with the D750.
I am surprised that you have read somewhere that they are the same.
Certainly not my experience.
I have shot the Df in low light at a jazz festival in 2015 and had to focus manually the entire event.
Had I only the D750 then...
If you are used to the D300, which I still own and have also used extensively, the D750 will fit right in.
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Thanks Jakov, I think I misread a comment where someone said lowlight performance the same, I now think they were talking about image/noise, not AF.
Thanks for your thoughts - any where for you where the D750 comes up short?
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I briefly tried the D750. It did fit neither my way hands nor my way of interacting with a camera.
Undoubtedly the Df has its quirks. It wouldn't be a genuine Nikon otherwise. For me it is so straightforward intuitive to work with that I hardly ever think about the badly implemented front dial, which I rarely need to use anyway given the lens line I set aside for the Df. Otherwise it'll work like a charm -- for me.
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Thanks Jakov, I think I misread a comment where someone said lowlight performance the same, I now think they were talking about image/noise, not AF.
Thanks for your thoughts - any where for you where the D750 comes up short?
I'm pretty sure that the comment that the performances of D750 and Df are similar is about the high-ISO noise performances. D750 is a clear winner in terms of AF in every aspect: coverage, low light performance (-1ev vs. -3ev), accuracy and response). Again, I do have used D610 whose AF sensor is the same as that of Df, so I can say it from my own experience.
FWIW, my images of this thread was largely possible thanks to the better AF performance of D750. With Df (actually D610 in my case), I would have missed a lot of moments captured here:
http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,6226.0.html
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I'm pretty sure that the comment that the performances of D750 and Df are similar is about the high-ISO noise performances.
Yes, thanks. I loved your concert pics -- I have some in my portfolio at home, but not taken with my Df. Concert light is a unique kind of "low light" as there are blasting hot lights and areas of total darkness (extreme contrast), so I think the AF system gets good contrast but in that case has to be FAST!
I am getting a warm feeling from the group here on the 750.
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The only drawback that I found is the multiple exposure feature.
With the Df you can make up to 10 multiple exposures into one image, while with the D750 you can only choose 2 or 3.
Yes, high ISO capabilities are very similar. I have limitted my Auto - ISO for both cameras at 12.800 and I am very happy with the results at such heights.
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if you don't plan on using non-Ai lenses then get the D750. it also has video just in case you need it. :o :o :o
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To be fair to Nikon, the Df and any other camera is not a matter of comparisons, it is a matter of contrasts.
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If you are used to the D300, which I still own and have also used extensively, the D750 will fit right in.
Of course, the D500 is the natural successor to the D300.... Nikon never makes these transitions easy!
I know people will say to "pick based on what you shoot" (i.e., sports, wildlife, portraits, street, etc) but I don't always find that helpful. We all shoot all kinds of things. I'm not in any hurry at the moment, just starting to explore and examine my shooting from 2017.
To be fair to Nikon, the Df and any other camera is not a matter of comparisons, it is a matter of contrasts.
Agree Ken!
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I have had several shutter failures with the D750. And I am not alone.
I have grown so disenchanted that I eventually replaced mine with a D500.
I am not saying the D500 is a camera you should be looking at, but here is my opinion:
If you are not interested in AF at all, get the DF or maybe the D610 (same sensor as D750, but cheaper)
If you are interested in AF, wait for the D750's replacement, and, assuming it has the new 153-point system, get that. It is at least as much better than the 51-point system as that is better than the 39-point system in the Df and D610.
If that is too expensive, consider a D810.
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I can´t comment on future cameras and my contact with the df is one of love but little contact. I have use it for a little time and the controls and ergonomics are not for me. I use it with a couple of manual nikkors and will probably get one at some point but...the d750 has been my to go camera for the last two+ years and I´m very happy with it. You can´t go wrong. Even the failures, if you got one, are covered. Right now they are cheap at some 1500-1600 new and around 1000 (€) second hand. Af, lowlight, iq and ergonomics are all very, very good for me.
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if you don't plan on using non-Ai lenses then get the D750. it also has video just in case you need it. :o :o :o
According to rumors after the launch of the Df, Nikon said that the images from Df was cleaner than D4 since the video feature on purpose was left out from the Df Sensor board,,,
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According to rumors after the launch of the Df, Nikon said that the images from Df was cleaner than D4 since the video feature on purpose was left out from the Df Sensor board,,,
yes. i think it has to do with high ISO :o :o :o
i can reconfirm this
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As well as suppressing or not implementing video features on the Df, I understand that the Df sensor was tweaked to yield superior low ISO performance compared with that of the D4, whose sensor is set up for better high ISO performance.
This kind of figures, given the differences in needs that I would imagine the intended audiences for these two cameras might have.
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I’ve really enjoyed the Df. Though I contemplate the D850, I find i get almost everything I need from the Df. Maybe when the Ds (digital mirror less rangefinder) comes out I’ll consider switching.
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Even the failures, if you got one, are covered.
They are? Mine was not covered under the recall, and the repairs took in excess of six weeks each time. I don't call that covered...
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They are? Mine was not covered under the recall, and the repairs took in excess of six weeks each time. I don't call that covered...
Truly sorry, my experience is very different. I send mine because the flash didn’t work as a master and they fix it and replace the shutter without me asking. All under warranty and no problems since.
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They are? Mine was not covered under the recall, and the repairs took in excess of six weeks each time. I don't call that covered...
Yeah, that's sorry to hear. My D750 was the affected one, and even it had been used for a year and a half, and its one-year warranty was expired, the shutter unit was replaced for free in two weeks.
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Are "certified refurbished" a good option here, does that mean that any known issues would have been addressed? (as compared to general market used)
Thanks,
Rob.
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Nikon Refurbished in the USA carry a 90-day warranty(not encouraging). Be careful, test thoroughly and quickly. Look for additional store warranty added to the Nikon 90-day.
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At a price, based on sale value, additional store warranty can be purchased here in Australia on new and some second hand goods. Not sure if the same is available in the US or other countries. Doesn't hurt to ask, especially if you are negotiating a deal.
Nikon Refurbished in the USA carry a 90-day warranty(not encouraging). Be careful, test thoroughly and quickly. Look for additional store warranty added to the Nikon 90-day.
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Nikon Refurbished in the USA carry a 90-day warranty(not encouraging). Be careful, test thoroughly and quickly. Look for additional store warranty added to the Nikon 90-day.
Thanks, I did not realize it was so short. Maybe a good short-term deal but not without risks.
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I hardly ever think about the badly implemented front dial, which I rarely need to use anyway given the lens line I set aside for the Df.
That's a key point - if you're using chipped lenses then you can ignore the front dial. That definitely makes the Df easier and more pleasant to use.
In my case I have quite a few unchipped F-mount lenses, which (with a few exceptions) I haven't really haven't been using since I moved to digital. Going forward I'm going to need to figure out if I want to chip some of these lenses, but that means first figuring out which ones I particularly like on the Df.
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With Ai lenses you only have aperture priority, so no dials needs to be used, only the aperture ring on the lens.
With non-Ai lens the back dial is used.
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With Ai lenses you only have aperture priority, so no dials needs to be used, only the aperture ring on the lens.
With non-Ai lens the back dial is used.
I must be doing something wrong then. I'll look into it.
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With Ai lenses you only have aperture priority, so no dials needs to be used, only the aperture ring on the lens.
With non-Ai lens the back dial is used.
I had been using a modern non-AI lens extensively the past couple of weeks and that's why I was confused. This lens doesn't have the AI ridge but also doesn't need the metering coupling lever to be flipped up. With an AI lens the aperture can be controlled from the lens, and that resolves most of my concern on this issue. Thanks for the correction.
For a non-AI lens, after adjusting the lens aperture then the front dial ("sub-command dial") is used to adjust the camera. This is on page 167 of the manual. The rear dial ("main command dial") normally has no effect on aperture. However, menu item f7 allows for the two dials to have their functions switched. I just noticed there's also a setting available under that item where the main command dial controls aperture only in exposure mode A. This seems like it will work really well for avoiding the front dial.