NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 17:06:38

Title: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 17:06:38
In this thread I will post some D850 RAW files that impressed me, edit away and post your results here!

File One, horse running at full steam: http://fotokontext.de/temp/DSC_0493.NEF

Later I seet the AF to "AF-C | group area" which worked much better, next to perfect. Yet at that time the horse seemed a tad exhausted and moved much slower.

Plus: I like the composition of this shot better. OOC JPEG, resized in ViewNX-i:
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 17:12:58
Second file, example for amazing detail and color rendition at ISO100 (forgot to set AutoISO to starting with ISO64):

http://fotokontext.de/temp/DSC_0056.NEF

I just see that I missed to synchronize Date & Time.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 17:22:15
And number three: impressive details and colors!

download: http://fotokontext.de/temp/DSC_0046.NEF

OOC attached:
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Bill Mellen on September 09, 2017, 17:35:17
And number three: impressive details and colors!

download: http://fotokontext.de/temp/DSC_0056.NEF

OOC attached:

Thank you very much for taking the time to share these!   

The actual link for #3 is  download appears to be : http://fotokontext.de/temp/DSC_0046.NEF  which I deduced from the name of the file in the post
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Jakov Minić on September 09, 2017, 17:37:06
The horse shot is really nice, Frank!
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: armando_m on September 09, 2017, 17:52:31
Frank this is awesome !!

I'm really curious about the new raw files, thanks for the opportunity to play with a few files
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Fons Baerken on September 09, 2017, 18:22:18
Finally some images with the D850, nice!
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Alaun on September 09, 2017, 18:28:39
Congratulation to the new camera Frank, without pre-order, its availability seems to be low.

The bright hair is difficult:



Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: armando_m on September 09, 2017, 18:56:15
full image and crop

cnxd


export to cnx2 to do a  multiply b&w mask on the bright hair,  resize, save as jpg
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 18:57:41
Thank you very much for taking the time to share these!   

The actual link for #3 is  download appears to be : http://fotokontext.de/temp/DSC_0046.NEF  which I deduced from the name of the file in the post

Thank you. Corrected.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 19:01:34
Impressive edit on the hair, Armando.

All be aware that this is taken at f/1.4, which means most of the picture is OOF. This works due to the unmatched resolving power of the 105E and its unique rendering of transitions.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: armando_m on September 09, 2017, 19:11:00
Impressive edit on the hair, Armando.

All be aware that this is taken at f/1.4, which means most of the picture is OOF. This works due to the unmatched resolving power of the 105E and its unique rendering of transitions.
Quite a fun image to try , thanks again Frank

It can't get much better than the D850 and 105 f1.4 combo :)

Being shot at 1/800, I guess you were following the horse ? otherwise how is it possible to see individual hairs
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 19:33:12
Yes, this is panning. I will post a small series jpeg only to show the wonderful movement phases of the horse. The first series was taken at t= 1/160 s, so time was too long.

This is the speed of the camera without grip. I am still waiting for the grip.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 09, 2017, 19:48:58
Rest of the series. I think speed can be improved if you chose a lens with faster AF like one of the 70-200VRs
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Akira on September 09, 2017, 22:30:59
Here's my take on the flower shot.  Edited on my uncalibrated monitor.   :o  I selected the "Flat" picture profile.

Compared to the NEF of D750, the contrast is richer and the color seems to be more pliable.  Resized to the same size as the file originally posted by Frank.

I like the "spotlight" effect of the vignetting of 105E.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: golunvolo on September 10, 2017, 00:17:57
Frank, thanks a lot, that so generous of you.

  I have been missing this contest, really. Armando, amazing job; Akira, so delicate.

   D850 and 105mm 1.4....how do you like it?  8)
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 10, 2017, 10:07:32
I like the 1.4/105E on any camera. For the horses I am quite positive that your 70-200FL is the better choice, but I am on a learning curve and if I manage to shoot sports at f/1.4, I am sure customers will buy my unique "look". Two stops is a lot!
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: golunvolo on September 10, 2017, 12:10:22
I´m sure you do. I tried it yesterday in the d500 and all the magic is there in a different way. Your images of the horses in movement at 1.4 are impressive. I actually tried the tracking focus with the d850 and 85mm 1.4 @1.4 and yours confirm the impressions I got. Looking forward for more impressions on the new tool from you.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 10, 2017, 12:24:58
Paco: next in line is group area AF-C with the Neo-Noct on the D500 at 10 fps vs. 1.4/105 on the D850 at 7 fps.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 10, 2017, 12:25:58
Here's my take on the flower shot.  Edited on my uncalibrated monitor.   :o  I selected the "Flat" picture profile.

Compared to the NEF of D750, the contrast is richer and the color seems to be more pliable.  Resized to the same size as the file originally posted by Frank.

I like the "spotlight" effect of the vignetting of 105E.

Very subtle, near transparent rendering
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: golunvolo on September 10, 2017, 12:43:38
Paco: next in line is group area AF-C with the Neo-Noct on the D500 at 10 fps vs. 1.4/105 on the D850 at 7 fps.
   I took yesterday for a walk the d500 with 58mm at night so the experience is fresh.Af in this one is slower but the quality of the images...I find a lot of criticism about this lens in internet. Good thing is a bought mine new with a big discount maybe because of that. Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Akira on September 10, 2017, 12:50:40
Akira, so delicate.

Very subtle, near transparent rendering

Paco and Frank, thanks for kind words.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 10, 2017, 18:26:47
   I took yesterday for a walk the d500 with 58mm at night so the experience is fresh.Af in this one is slower but the quality of the images...I find a lot of criticism about this lens in internet. Good thing is a bought mine new with a big discount maybe because of that. Let me know what you think.

Difficult to handle. But if you hit it .... Golden!!!
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: armando_m on September 11, 2017, 00:36:05
Here is the horse again , now processed in PS ACR - raw conversion, flat profile, reduce highlights (which in ACR works) , a bit more saturation , curves to add contrast , NR set to 0 both luminosity and color

So much faster than CNXD and a very nice result, much closer to what can be accomplished using the CNXD/CNX2 vs. the results I get with the D800 files

Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 11, 2017, 01:07:46
Armando: Wonderful colors in the whole picture, but a lot of chrominance noise in the crop.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 22, 2017, 22:23:12
chrominance noise in pulled shadows is the key in the following two D850-shots, where scene contrast is very high:

http://zentralkraft.com/DSC_1923.NEF
http://zentralkraft.com/DSC_1882.NEF

Try to pull the shadows on this D500-file to compare the behavior:

http://zentralkraft.com/ZENTRALKRAFT/KO7_5226.NEF
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: John Geerts on September 22, 2017, 23:01:18
1882 is in ACR about 2.5 points underexposed.  Made a correction for that as well as a slight correction for shadows and blacks.  And a small correction for blown highlights.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: charlie on September 22, 2017, 23:17:44
It could be argued that DSC_1882 is 3-4 stops under exposed. Considering that I'd say the noise is handled quite well upon recovery. I'm not sure what HDR process you used in your original post of this picture, but it did the sky no justice.

1- original
2- ACR auto button was pressed, no other adjustments, no noise reduction applied.
3- 100% crop

Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 23, 2017, 00:20:40
Thank you, Charlie! Clearly Adobe Camera RAW is to be considered over Nikon Capture NX-D.

The shot was intentionally underexposed to test the reportedly existence of an ISO invariant Sensor that allows for exposing for the lights and then lifting the shadows without significant penalty.

ACR seems to excel at just that and finish the race a few lenghts before NX-D finishes.

Great News!!!
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: armando_m on September 23, 2017, 05:11:54
my attempts

1. acr - manually move shadows, highlights and exposure
2. cnxd - CNX2 d-lightning with selection points excluding the sky

Frank, thanks for sharing your files, it is fun to experiment

Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 23, 2017, 05:37:45
Thank you, Charlie! Clearly Adobe Camera RAW is to be considered over Nikon Capture NX-D.
[I reinstalled CNX-D and now it opens D850 NEF(s) :)]

My version of CNX-D won't open or display these D850 NEF(s). I'm using CNX-D v1.4.6. I check and it's the latest I find at Nikon's download center.

Is there something I've missed or does Nikon not yet offer a version of CNX-D that handles D850 NEF(s)?

Dave
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 23, 2017, 09:15:34
Armando: what do you think about chrominance noise?

Obviously I have to learn a lot about editing the D850 files
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Arne Hvaring on September 23, 2017, 15:39:54
Thanks for making these files available, most useful!  Capture 1 now supports the D-850, so here is a quick attempt. Highlights -100, this tames the hair but not the blue tissue, so some reduction of saturation. A touch of clarity and structure then export to PS for final adjustments.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: armando_m on September 23, 2017, 16:09:54
Armando: what do you think about chrominance noise?

Obviously I have to learn a lot about editing the D850 files
Frank,
Here are a couple of 100% crops , both processed in CNXD, +4ev, flat profile

1. without NR
2. with 50% color noise reduction

Dave, here is a screen capture of my cnxd about info, same version as yours, perhaps, uninstall and download, install again ?

Edit: Interesting, I see little difference between both images processed in CNXD, but if I do the same in ACR the difference is more obvious, but not huge, the bigger difference is in the colors even when selecting flat profile on both cnxd and acr.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 23, 2017, 20:34:19
Oops! All done is sRGB buy accident. Nikon Capture NX-D 1.4.6 (had to reinstall CNX-D to open NEF, don't know why). I'll have to try again when I have time using Adobe Wide in CNX-D. Sized and sharpened in Photoshop CS2 with no local editing...

The first is sRGB all the way. The second is Nikon Adobe Wide 4.0 in CNX-D and converted at the end to sRGB in PS before saving the JPG. The sharpening is probably a little different.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 23, 2017, 23:44:04
Here is my shot at the horse and trainer. Again it Nikon Capture NX-D then opened with Photoshop. CNX-D was set to open the NEF in Nikon Adobe Wide 4.0. No local editing. Sharpened and downsized in Photoshop...

Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 24, 2017, 00:33:55
The more edits you show, the more I like the horse picture. Thank you so much!!!
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 24, 2017, 06:26:51
The first is sRGB all the way. The second is Nikon Adobe Wide 4.0 in CNX-D and converted at the end to sRGB in PS before saving the JPG.

I think Capture NX-D deals with bright highlights fine. It's just different than others. I used the Flat Picture Control on both the band and the horse and trainer. I used Active D-Lighting on the band. I used LCH on both. For the band from the side I used 1.33 stops of positive exposure compensation. The low end is pretty damned deep. If the band were going to a web press (do they still use those? I haven't shot PR for years) I think the photo would print fine. I don't know if charities send out news letters today or not. It's been almost three decades.

Dave
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 24, 2017, 07:16:52
The band from the front. Capture NX-D to Photoshop. I did some perspective control in CNX-D and I used a contrast reducing mask in PS. The sky is a bit green for my taste but I'm out of time to do more post process...

Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Arne Hvaring on September 24, 2017, 13:36:08
FWIW here is my take on the band shot. Capture 1, minor adjustment in PS.  Amazing what one can pull up from such a badly underexsposed file. Bodes well for the D850.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 24, 2017, 14:12:23
FWIW here is my take on the band shot. Capture 1, minor adjustment in PS.  Amazing what one can pull up from such a badly underexsposed file. Bodes well for the D850.

As mentioned above the idea behind the whole exercise was to test the shadow-pull-potential of the new camera.

My verdict so far is that life is continuuos learning and that developing D500 files is something else than developing D850 files.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Arne Hvaring on September 24, 2017, 18:55:55
Yes. I have the D500, splendid camera btw., but not yet the D850. In what way do you feel there is a difference between the files of these two cameras. Disregarding the obvious Mpx difference of course. Some have claimed that the sensor in the D850 is essentially a scaled up version of the D500 sensor, but you obviously disagree.
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: pluton on September 24, 2017, 21:18:40
I wanted to try to get the flesh tones lighter plus an overall cheerful, sunny day feeling without an artifact-y look.  I wasn't completely successful on the artifact-y part. 
Since my LR/ACR has no D850 capability yet, I had to use NX-D to decode the raw into a very flat 16bit tiff, then finish in LR/ACR. After massage in LR I outputted to a 1600 width JPEG with 3 pixel radius sharpening(unusual).  It seems that the D850 continues and improves the wide capture range progress of the D800.  I won't know if it's any good on the web 'till I post it, so....
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 24, 2017, 23:48:18
The light in both of the band photos is too harsh and there isn't enough information in the shadows to lift the skin tones of the near trumpet player to a "normal" level. There is a point where there is nothing in the shadows, clipped and bringing up what is almost there doesn't look right. A silly photon here and there in an otherwise empty well is in my opinion better left black.

The photo showing the band from the front seems to need a different WB for the sky in the right corner. I don't want the face of the church cold so I've got a sky that's too yellow-green. There is probably some channel clipping in the sky. I'm certain there is in the clouds. All in all it's quite amazing what can be done but there are limits. The photo might be developed twice and the sky dropped in. Air pollution is probably a problem in the lowest part of the sky making it worse than the rest of the sky. 

Dave
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 25, 2017, 02:50:30
Better I think. Still not quite there. At least it's not Velvia.  :D

Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 25, 2017, 05:55:02
Thank you all. I will try to give you more examples to play with as it seems to make sense to me
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: David H. Hartman on September 25, 2017, 08:08:56
Stepping out my front door, looking between the houses across the street: same ugly green sky. It's really there and it surely air pollution. So I want an idealized reality.  :)
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 08, 2017, 19:23:19
A "natural" color test chart: http://zentralkraft.com/DSC_3543.NEF
Title: Re: RAW Editing Contest, special edition D850
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 30, 2017, 08:52:27
Here are some from my recent visit to the botanical garden, taken with a lens that clearly outperforms the D850:

f/5.6
http://zentralkraft.com/DSC_5086.NEF
http://zentralkraft.com/DSC_5081.NEF

f/11
http://zentralkraft.com/DSC_5099.NEF
http://zentralkraft.com/DSC_5185.NEF

looking forward to your edits!