NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Gigas on September 04, 2017, 21:40:01
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Hello again! Is there anybody that have an extra Nikon Power Cord SC-21? It is the cord that goes between the flash battery pack and the lens. I also need an upgrade of that lens with a proper CPU installed.
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Sorry, probably can't help you there. I do have a mangled spare somewhere, but firstly it needs resoldering, and secondly and more importantly, it has to be located :D
As to the idea of putting a CPU into the Medical 120, this is feasible (done this a couple of times and kept one sample for myself), but only meaningful if the linkage between focusing and aperture is severed. This occurs deep inside the innards of the 120 and should be left to a qualified repair tech.
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Thank you Bjørn I like to check out a qualified tech for that. I will come back to you for a G type CPU!
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Just a friendly warning: my inventory is nearly cleared out these days.
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Not even Nikon Europe can do the surgery on that medical nikkor 120mm. No tech is able to take on the task!
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FotoCare (Oslo) is authorised Nikon repair shop and they can do it :D did this for me - on two different 120 lenses.
I can act as a proxy for you if necessary.
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That would be nice!
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No, I am dropping this upgrade as it is to costly and uncertain! This is the answer I got from Foto Care in Oslo. "The cost of such a job is set at 2850NKR + VAT and shipping.
Also important to mention that this is an expired model that we do not share and that is something that is or becomes defective during disassembly, so we can not take responsibility for this or provide warranty for repair.
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... sorry about that, but at least they could do the job :D
I'll stick to my own sample of the 120 Medical then, as would Erik. These specimens are getting unique.
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Thank you Bjørn anyway. I have to make due with my other lenses!
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Hi All!
Just acquired this beautiful lens, which in great shape, optically speaking.
The problem is that some parts on one of the PCBs are dead, burnt?
The AC-UNIT LA-2 fortunately works fine with my SB-21.
I'm looking for the schematics of course to try to repair it.
Is there any luck I can find such thing?
Thx.
Patrick
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There is a repair manual for sale on eBay :-)
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Can you please send the link, because I did a search on eBay and I've found nothing.
Patrick
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Sorry, it took a while to find the link, as I was in the eBay app.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154288257610
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Thanks a lot!
Unfortunately they don't send to France.
That's why I've nothing, but ...
... there is THE picture of the wiring diagram without any value alas.
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They won’t ship to Japan either! Seems bonkers, as it would just slip into an envelope.
I like a detective task, so I will poke around a bit more :-)
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So do I ;)
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Have you tried to send a message to the seller if shipment would be possible?
You can always ask for a price?
There has been a real fire inside......wonder which component that is totally burned down. My guess is an e-cap.
Could it be the high voltage capacitor to fire the ring flash? ....usually those caps are a bit bigger but it is a rather small flash......so maybe.....
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Have you tried to send a message to the seller if shipment would be possible?
You can always ask for a price?
I'll try and see :)
There has been a real fire inside......wonder which component that is totally burned down. My guess is an e-cap.
Could it be the high voltage capacitor to fire the ring flash?
The most damaged component is the coil.
I'm pretty sure that the big capacitor to fire the flash is in the AC-UNIT LA-2.
I used it to power up my SB-21 to take the pictures as it is compatible with this ring flash.
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I'll try and see :)
I did try :(
There is no way to ask even a simple question, the seller locked everything.
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I can see that......I also tried.....so no way to contact him.
Only possibility is if there is an US-member that could buy it and ship it to Europe.
It may be possible......
If it is a coil that is burned down.....something very violent took place inside that lens.......
Now I know why some components are advertised as "fire retardant".....
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"Only possibility is if there is an US-member that could buy it and ship it to Europe.
It may be possible......
Patrick, I'd be willing to help, if you'd like. I'm just down the road from the seller, near Portland. I'm sure there are others here who would be willing as well. Let me, or perhaps other US based NG members or supporters, know. Would great for the lens to be back in tip-top shape and to see your work with it.
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Hi Tim,
Of course I'd like :)
That's a great proposition that can be the definitive solution to get a hand on the manual.
Let me know by PM or email what are your conditions.
Patrick
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Patrick, I sent a PM...
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Patrick, I sent a PM...
Hi Tim,
My reply is sent :)
Tim offered kindly to buy the manual for me and did it. Thanks again Tim.
Patrick
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Hi all,
Finally I had a closer look to the PCB where the dead components are.
The most damaged one is a tantalum capacitor, so I'm more optimistic to repair the flash, as it's an easier spare part to find.
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Hi all,
Thanks to Tim the manual was in my mailbox this morning.
But !
I've already done two deep dives into the manual, and alas I think I'm stuck.
Except for the resistors there is no values for the components in the tables, and what i'm looking for mainly is a capacitor.
Thanks to the Google Translate app on my iPhone I was abble to translate the japanese descriptions which are more complete than the english ones, but again no value.
I was right, the dead one is a tantalum capacitor, but that's all I know ;-(
But since the ring that do focusing/aperture (there're tied together) is a bit stiff I may fix this with the manual.
Thank again Tim
Patrick
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Hi all,
Thanks to Tim the manual was in my mailbox this morning.
But !
I've already done two deep dives into the manual, and alas I think I'm stuck.
Except for the resistors there is no values for the components in the tables, and what i'm looking for mainly is a capacitor.
Thanks to the Google Translate app on my iPhone I was abble to translate the japanese descriptions which are more complete than the english ones, but again no value.
I was right, the dead one is a tantalum capacitor, but that's all I know ;-(
But since the ring that do focusing/aperture (there're tied together) is a bit stiff I may fix this with the manual.
Thank again Tim
Patrick
It's possible to decouple the aperture and the focus ring from each other by removing the link.
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While the statement of Erik is absolutely true, there is a small caveat of how to control the now independent aperture ... I used a programmed CPU to help overcome this small problem. You need to have the CPU chip emulating "G" mode so actual aperture is dialled in on the camera.
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Thanks Birna, my comprehension is now better to see how things are done when the link is removed.
We'll see ...
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Really happy the manual arrived safely, and hope it helps. Maybe with the manual and NG contributors it'll all come together. Looking forward to seeing the fruit of your labor :)
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I notice that the "unfried" components are all colour coded (thus easy to read their values) and that any colour coding on the the "fried" components are now unreadable.
Do you have any way of getting photos of intact circuit boards so the values of the resistors and capacitors etc can be read? These values plus your circuit diagram should get you "over the line".
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Another problem with tantalum capacitors is that each producer had its own color coding, plus there are also numerical codings, such as "125" which means 12 followed by 5 zeroes, that is 1200000 picofarads, or 1.2 μF, So even if you can get your hands on a clean PCB's images, you still have to figure out what color coding was used. One step at a time work will get done, the Net is full of tables with tantalum capacitors' color codes...
Ciao from Massimo
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Do you have any way of getting photos of intact circuit boards so the values of the resistors and capacitors etc can be read? These values plus your circuit diagram should get you "over the line".
That's also my idea, maybe someone willing to open his:her own lens, or find another lens and take a close look at it.
Patrick
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I should be receiving my own 120mm in a day, or so. I'll see then, if anyone is still interested or in need, what I can offer in the way of posting clean images of circuits etc.
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First sample image taken with Medical Nikkor 120mm f/4.
Lens setting: f/32 @ 0.35 (1:1 ?)
Camera: Nikon D610
Software: Nikon Nx Studio; Corel AfterShot™ Pro 3
Tech notes: The on-camera, pop-up flash was deployed as I currently lack a proper AC or DC power source suited to this lens. A paper surgical mask was used as a diffuser -- and to great effect -- cutting down significantly the flash output.
In every sense, I was wading through unfamiliar waters, experimenting with a newly acquired lens and software I'd hardly ever put to use before. Moreover, I finally learned how to properly post an image to this site. (Thank you Birna and Andrea!)
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Very nice layering and soft color transitions
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f/32? Then you are stuck with the interconnected aperture and focusing collar. The 120 does much better at f/11.
I recommend getting the battery power pack LD-2. It does double duty by powering the SB-21/AS-14 ring flash system as well.
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A couple of examples what the 120/4 Medical can deliver, once the aperture is decoupled from the focusing collar. For example, balancing fore- and background is much easier.
I shot a lot of the Medical Nikkor images combined with D300 or D500.
First image is Myosoton aquaticum, the second is Agrostis gigantea.
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Yes, good advice to decouple the lens, then you have control over diffraction as shown ;)
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I took many more test photos, only this time of a cultivated flowerbed in a public park near to a considerably more uncultivated -- and favorite place -- meadow and wetland. The results were somewhat mixed, as might be expected owing to the f/32 and focal length coupling situation, however I was generally pleased overall. Deploying any combination of natural light, onboard flash, even a handheld LED light, I managed a few "keepers" and not to get stung by several very accommodating bees. (You might even say, these were my "bee keepers". ::)) Most exposures were made with camera mounted on a very-sturdy Bogen-Manfrotto rig and some were handheld. What I neglected to do was keep a record of which were which as that might have proven helpful to my evaluations. Furthermore, not all shots were at f/32 and therefore right on top of the subjects -- the ever increasingly more curious bees and moths. (I swear, I was attracting them! No, seriously!)
At some point -- when I get the nerve or lose my senses, whichever comes first -- I may attempt to undertake (ominous word choice) the necessary decoupling of the aperture from the focusing collar myself. Barring that, finding a qualified person to do it for me that wouldn't necessitate my taking out a mortgage on my immortal soul in the bargain might be the better tact. In any event, I will not see this lens ruined or rendered in any way inoperable by my own, or any others, machinations or vain ambitions.
The LD-2 power pack, and for all those reasons Birna spelled out, appears the way to go. And I have been keeping my eye open for any used deals that aren't prohibitively (re: ridiculously) expensive. When first considering this lens for purchase, I was woefully ignorant of its electronic package. In other words, how much actual "flash" was incorporated into its design. (Was it just a xenon tube and a pin-out?) Later coming to realize that all it need was an external power source, I wondered -- still do, in fact -- if I couldn't design and build, under expert tutelage, my own generic "LD-2".
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I shot a lot of the Medical Nikkor images combined with D300 or D500.
Ironically enough, as I rarely go about with more then one body or two lenses, I had packed along my D300 -- and a medium-long zoom just in case I spotted an interesting bird or distant terrapin sunning on a rock -- but hadn't considered mounting the Medical 120, whether for "reach" or mere curiosity. Honestly, I believe I was over-thinking what 24 mega-pixels might resolve rather then being mindful of what purpose I might be putting the final image to. It might be interesting to see what differences, if any, become apparent when shooting the D610 in DX format vs the D300, with this lens. (And a D500? Birna, in my dreams. Incidentally, love those photos!)
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More trial shots with the Med 120.
I came in tight, I think, at 1:1 @ f/32 for the first two images and it's anyone's guess about the latter -- which I posted for dof comparison etc. None of these photos were cropped. Furthermore, I selected these images randomly, from among scores of very similar takes, for the soul purpose of providing the viewer with representative samples of what this lens is capable of resolving and all that. Clearly I have some way to go before I can confidently say this is my good stuff given my hit-or-miss efforts at post-processing just now. But, I'm working on it!
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Very nice layering and soft color transitions
I got lucky. (I guess... ) But I'm not terribly thrilled, however, with the other examples I provided, which probably has more to do with my technique then the lens itself. That in mind, the first flower image and the photo of the bee are currently the most requested desktop backgrounds among my less discriminating, and understandably biased, friends.
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Yes, good advice to decouple the lens, then you have control over diffraction as shown ;)
Don't know if I'm up to the task myself, just yet. I don't want to risk ruining an otherwise, perfectly good -- and useful -- lens in an ill-planned or improperly executed DIY experiment. It's probably best I hold-off indefinitely until I can source and afford someone adept at modifying this lens.
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Just a quick link to a manual...
https://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/archive/Medical-Nikkor%20120mm%20f-4%20IF.pdf
Dave
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I think this is the search I used and while look through the hits I found a bunch of Nikkor lenses manuals...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Nikon+F+lens+and+camera+bayonet+nomenclature+&t=hx&va=g&ia=web
Many from Nkion Canada
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Sorry for digging this thread up.
May someone share the repair manual with me? Or explain how the aperture and focus linkage can be removed? I was finally able to purchase one of these and to my surprise, I cannot find any information online regarding the modification. It sounds simple but from what I have read so far, it might be quite difficult.
I would like to assume that the optics require no work.
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Erik should know. Shoot him a PM. Do note you'll need a CPU in the lens to fully exploit the advantages of removing the aperture/flash linkage.
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Erik should know. Shoot him a PM. Do note you'll need a CPU in the lens to fully exploit the advantages of removing the aperture/flash linkage.
Thanks a lot Birna! I will DM Erik later.
I plan on only using the lens wide open where it should perform the best. I might add the chip too as I think I have enough skills now to do such a modification.
The other plan is to install an LED ring light powered by a USB power bank to act as some sort of manual focus assist when it gets dark. I am personally not a fan of the flat ring light look.
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Once you can set the aperture at will, there is no need to use the built-in ring flash at all.
Looking quickly through my archive for images taken with the 120 Medical, I noticed at lot of them were acquired at aperture settings f/11-f/22. Chasing butterflies however were with f/4-f/5.6. So it all dependens on the purpose and motif of the picture.
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Once you can set the aperture at will, there is no need to use the built-in ring flash at all.
Looking quickly through my archive for images taken with the 120 Medical, I noticed at lot of them were acquired at aperture settings f/11-f/22. Chasing butterflies however were with f/4-f/5.6. So it all dependens on the purpose and motif of the picture.
Chances are, mine will be used for relatively still subjects such as flowers and slow critters, I will likely do bursts and focus stack. I have sent Erik a message, thanks!
There were several opportunities to pick this lens up at less than $50, ones that were infested with mushrooms. I regret it now, I should have bought one to do a trial on before taking the surgery on my nice boxed copy.
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I would not say it is quick fix to remove and change/fix the linkage. You need to disassemble the rear quite far to get to it and the set it at smallest aperture to let the camera control it via the stop down leaver, as Birna mention this will only work if an appropriate CPU is installed. If not, the aperture will not stop down correctly,,,
Yes, you can disable the aperture and aperture lever,,, all manual,,, not recommended.
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The lens arrived. It was in such good condition, I would rather leave it without modifications. I will try and get another unit that I do not mind messing with.
At first glance, the aperture is limited corresponding to each magnification. However, at higher settings, it can be opened up. It cannot be closed beyond the fixed settings at low magnifications. This makes a lot more sense to me now, I was confused about the necessity of contacts to control the aperture, as I thought it allowed no adjustments and had no prong to engage the iris.
All I have to do is to find a ring which engages the aperture, maybe an AI/AIS-M42 ring and then adapt it back to F-mount, get some extension tubes to achieve the correct magnifications. I only plan on using the lens at higher magnifications anyway, so the handicap does not affect me.
There was even a printed warranty certificate.
The warranty is only valid in Japan, oh no! My warranty. ::)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53725589388_eda7501304_h.jpg)
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Looks like the BR-4 ring does exactly what I want it to do, bye spring.
The crude adaptation is now complete. The aperture prong of the lens itself is spring loaded too, I can just use a piece of tape to stop it from closing.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53725878695_bb2d80d959_h.jpg)
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As long as the lens delivers the images you want, why not?
However, adding extension to that lens to set it to a given magnification might not be the optimum approach for quality. I'm curious about the results.
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The lens arrived. It was in such good condition, I would rather leave it without modifications. I will try and get another unit that I do not mind messing with.
At first glance, the aperture is limited corresponding to each magnification. However, at higher settings, it can be opened up. It cannot be closed beyond the fixed settings at low magnifications. This makes a lot more sense to me now, I was confused about the necessity of contacts to control the aperture, as I thought it allowed no adjustments and had no prong to engage the iris.
All I have to do is to find a ring which engages the aperture, maybe an AI/AIS-M42 ring and then adapt it back to F-mount, get some extension tubes to achieve the correct magnifications. I only plan on using the lens at higher magnifications anyway, so the handicap does not affect me.
There was even a printed warranty certificate.
The warranty is only valid in Japan, oh no! My warranty. ::)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53725589388_eda7501304_h.jpg)
wow, how it can be new in this way 8)
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Sure lives up to the most often misused condition rating: Mint :o :o :o
Looks like NOS, New Old Stock is appropriate here 8)
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As long as the lens delivers the images you want, why not?
However, adding extension to that lens to set it to a given magnification might not be the optimum approach for quality. I'm curious about the results.
Nope, no extension at all!
I used an F-mount (female) and then a slight extension to the Z-mount to achieve the same overall length as the FTZ adaptor.
I am waiting to get another one to mess with, this one will be boxed back up and sold because I do not want to ruin it. Someone might be able to appreciate it more than I do.
There are some reports that adding extension to achieve a certain magnification within the lenses' design yields better images than properly setting it, and some to the contrary. Trial and error...!
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This is what the crude adaptation looks like.
The lens is front heavy, I will have to 3D print a lens collar. Handholding this is a nightmare when I have to claw that aperture prong. Hopefully, I can get another one soon to mess around with.
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This is now way out of my comfort zone. I can see the aperture is limited mechanically by an arced ring, but it is attached deep down with screws facing downward. How do I even reach that spot? I would have simply cut it but the limited working space makes this risky, if not impossible.
Any direction is appreciated!
Thanks.
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I figured it out, and this method I am using does not strictly require destructive removal of parts to decouple.
With the conversion, I decided to remove all the electronics anyway, it is a useless nuisance for my work. I will mount a LED ring light in place instead. A controller board can definitely be tucked within that housing.
I am going to reverse the disassembly to verify its function. If this works, it is unnecessary to enter from the rear element.
Edit:
Here it is, I got in from the front and removed all the ring light stuff. I thought the ring light was plugged in, so I tried pulling and got a handful of glass shards. How do they fix these if the ring light goes bust? A typical user would not be able to perform the repair.
Anyhow, there is a white gear that engages a much larger internal gear which is a part of the "focus ring" with scales on. I simply rotated the gear to close down the aperture fully, and then removed the gear.
Doing so disables the coupling, which allows me to control the aperture using the BR-4 ring. I purchased an expensive ai/ais to Z-mount "PK cine style" adaptor from Kipon/XPimage. This adaptor allows external clickless aperture coupling which will make the lens much easier to use.
Does this affect chipping? I think it still works! The aperture is set to minimum already, a chip should allow my camera to set the appropriate aperture from the body. I do need to get the rear ring chipped first, hopefully I can pay a more experienced member to do this for me, I will mail just the rear mount. I think this conversion is better. Accessing the rear mount requires the removal of some kind of rear element group which may cause dust to enter. For mine, all you have to do is snip all the wires, remove all the electronics and then remove one gear, much less disassembly involved. It is possible to carefully remove all electronics using a soldering iron but I see no value in that tungsten ring flash which requires some stupid bulky dated external box.
I will try and get another to make a video.
Here is the XPimage adaptor being demonstrated: https://youtube.com/shorts/gL3lPh0woSQ?si=V3PlVz8oJd6JKQeG
I took it from their Taobao listing. It should arrive next week.
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It's been a great while since I last visited here and I'm heartened to see that this lens is still being discussed. Only moments ago I was looking at a Nikon extension ring posted on an auction site, finding myself once again wondering if there isn't something I could do to modify one to facilitate manual control over the aperture lever. Clearly, I'm not the only one thinking these things, moreover implementing these solutions. Now, the fun stuff! Shortly after receiving my own 120mm Medical Nikkor I devised my own crude but effective solution to controlling the aperture, precluding any "surgery on the lens". In effect I found I could use dental rubber bands between the bayonet mount and aperture lever allowing for a friction-hold of the lever at an approximate preset f-stop value. It's a pain and often requires dismounting the lens to reposition the lever on it - but it works! And should a rubber band come off in use, it bounces harmlessly off the mirror. At which point I can shake it out of the body and put it back on the lens.
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Reading further along in this discussion, I see the LED ring-light solution is also being explored! Frustrated by my own inability to find any cords for this lens, never mind an OEM battery pack costing nearly as much as a plane ticket to Japan, I resigned myself to building my own portable power supply. Only, I couldn't source a schematic and/or pin-out diagram for this lens and didn't want to risk blowing any number of leaking capacitors or shock myself with an indeterminate number of joules; my heart couldn't take it. So, I thought, why not go the LED solution? Simply put: I don't believe it's the same as real "flash", moreover provide enough output for some night time UV experiments I wish to conduct. But I might be wrong.
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Hello,
I have the repair manual for the the "AC Power Unit LA-2" at home.
Of course there is the schematic and the pin-out diagram inside.
As soon as I have access to a scanner I post them.
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Here you go :)
I have the repair manual for the lens as well (thanks to Tim Becraft).
I can post the schematic of the flash unit, but it's harder to read because you have to dig into the parts list to figure out what are the components.