NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Frank Fremerey on July 23, 2017, 21:10:45

Title: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on July 23, 2017, 21:10:45
Bitingly sharp and super smooth bokeh. In that situation one could think of using a smaller aperture or a tripod plus stacking...

... still ...
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on July 23, 2017, 21:15:56
some more examples:

Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: aerobat on July 23, 2017, 23:10:28
Impressive examples of what the 300mm PF is capable. Thanks for sharing this experiment Frank. Did you use the D500?
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on July 23, 2017, 23:27:45
Very nice. Wonderful separation from the background.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on July 24, 2017, 04:58:42
Dr Lens made me two TCs into AF-S extensions. This is the 14E.

I tried most of my lenses with both but not systematically or extensively. Could not find much use for the 20E yet. Clearly the 300PF seems to take the 23mm extension from the 14E best, offering a wide range  of possible focus distances with good subject distance and magnification. Plus the qualities of the unextended are maintained well.

Next will be hunting bees in flight. You know that this is a hobby of mine...

I do not see much difference between D600 and D500 yet. The D500 FOV is a tad on the narrow side for my taste though. Above examples are taken with the D600 offering decent AF with this extension on the PF
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: pluton on July 24, 2017, 06:26:49
I like that this lens shows the current Nikon design-style of smooth rendering.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: HCS on July 24, 2017, 09:46:00
Great examples Frank.

I really like the composition of the first picture.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Grahame Hamblin on July 24, 2017, 10:32:50
Frank was about to play with my 200 what sort  of aperture did you end up with.
Grahame
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Erik Lund on July 25, 2017, 07:09:31
Seems like a good combination/ compromise to a dedicated macro lens.
Very good Bokeh.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: David H. Hartman on July 26, 2017, 20:14:34
A very good series. Thank you!

Dave
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Bill Mellen on July 26, 2017, 23:31:47
Very nice Frank!

I wonder if Nikon willl ever make an extension tube with a chip like your custom made one.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Grahame Hamblin on July 27, 2017, 10:14:10
taken with 70-200 at 200 5.6 36mm extension tube
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Grahame Hamblin on July 28, 2017, 00:45:20
This one with 300 f4 36mm ext
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Bill Mellen on July 28, 2017, 00:58:39
Frank and Grahame,

Beautiful work!
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 20, 2017, 18:34:33
taken with 70-200 at 200 5.6 36mm extension tube

Grahame: This shot is very nice, although untypical. How near did the little bird allow you to get to her?
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 20, 2017, 18:36:49
some more extented 300PF Shots:

Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Jakov Minić on August 20, 2017, 21:36:30
Frank, the first two are just lovely!
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: armando_m on August 20, 2017, 21:40:27
Great images Frank

1 and 2 are my favorites
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Bjørn Jorde on August 20, 2017, 23:47:22
Nice work Frank!

Have you measured what the reproduction ratio with the 23mm extension is on the 300PF?
Also, do you know wha the minimum focusing distance is with this combo?
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Bill Mellen on August 21, 2017, 00:43:22
Very nice Frank!

The 300PF is at the top of my wish list along with a TC14III
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Roland Vink on August 21, 2017, 00:53:25
The 300PF focuses to 1.4m by itself, giving a magnification of 1:4.1. My rough calculation suggests the focal length has reduced to about 230mm at this point. Adding a 23mm extension tube will increase the magnification by an extra 1:10, giving a total magnification a little less than 1:3. The focusing distance will be about 1.2m. These calculations assume a theoretical "thin lens" so the actual figures may be a little different, but they are usually reasonably close.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Akira on August 21, 2017, 04:50:50
Welccome back, Frank, and thanks for additional marvelous closeups!  Hope the reason for your hiatus is not the health problem.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Ann on August 21, 2017, 06:49:08
Those are really great Frank — especially the first one.

I have been using my 300 mm PF heavily since I bought it a year ago as a direct result of your comments and enthusiasm for that lens.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Olivier on August 21, 2017, 07:32:53
I like n.3...
The leaves give a swirl that surround the bug.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 21, 2017, 09:09:38
Akira. It was more the immune suppressor medication that caused some trouble and the need for a pause.

Thank you all for the comments. Esp tracking fast insects is wonderful with the combination. I need some time to practice autofocus in these situations.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 21, 2017, 13:36:22
Nice work Frank!
Have you measured what the reproduction ratio with the 23mm extension is on the 300PF?
Also, do you know wha the minimum focusing distance is with this combo?

No I did not measure the reproduction ratio.

For me the question is more interesting, if I get an added value in practice. With a lens like the 1.4/105E and the 1.4/58G I feel the distance range is very small if I extend them, meaning: I can get nearer to the subject, but the subject distance in which I can achieve focus is very small, so I am more or less fixed in a certain distance from the subject. I hope you can understand what I say.

With the 300PF I can change subject distance and still achieve focus. Of course I lose 10 Meters and I lose infinity, But I gain qite a lot.

Next time I will take a triod and measure the minimum and maximum distance in which I can achieve focus. OK?
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: David Paterson on August 21, 2017, 20:52:24
Lots of nice work here Frank, and very interesting to me because it helps to confirm my recent habit of using my 70-200/4 for all my macro work. I use it either with extension or supplementary lens or both, and it gives excellent results, the working distance is much more comfortable, and the bokeh is superb.

I have been so pleased with this that I have tried using the 200-500/5.6  in the same way, also with good results. However, the lens is just a bit clumsy for this kind of work, as I'm sure you know.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Michael Erlewine on August 21, 2017, 21:04:00
Nice shots. But my only concern with so much extension is that it changes the lens, nevertheless, and probably affects the color. In my work, there is no free lunch, no matter how hard i try. You may get top results, but when I try it, it seems I am just degrading an otherwise great lens.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 21, 2017, 21:25:27
Michael: the perfection in your work is fascinating also the process you achieve your results. Yet your work is yours and others emphasize on other aspects of picture making. I do not feel I use the combination in the best possible way yet, but I am working on it
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 21, 2017, 21:34:43
David: very interesting what you do. From me macro was always tripod and manual focus and small subject distance. With a long stabilized lens with superb AF they spontaneous, emotional shot is achievable. A new field opens. I really like the 105VR optically, but I hate the CAR and the AF because they are not really helpful tracking bees in flight which is my goal. With the D500 and very soon the D850 the AF and VR of the long version 300PF is superb. A bit of practice and you hope to create amazing stuff I could not create with my earlier equipment. Nice to hear that the 70-200 and 200-500 are also useful. Very interesting. Wish I had more time to shoot & edit
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: David H. Hartman on August 21, 2017, 23:09:18
Frank,

Did I reply here earlier? I can't see much now as I'm using a phone but when I'm at home on a computer...

This series is spectacular!

Thank you,

Dave Hartman
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 22, 2017, 13:42:04
Dave, I am flattered & looking forward to the end of the school holidays when wife & kids are off to work & school after eight in the morning and I can begin my normal work schedule again.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 22, 2017, 19:04:13
I went to the garden and measured the minimum and maximum distance with or without extension 14Emod

With 103cm Without 138cm
With 526cm Without infinity
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: F2F3F6 on August 22, 2017, 20:08:17
Marvellous images Frank, congratulations !
Does anybody know how does the 300PF comport himself with apochromatic diopters like the Nikon 5T or 6T or the Canon 500D ?
It could be another qualitative solution for the 300 to get nearer to the subjects...

I liked my Canon 500D with my Sigma Apo Macro 4/300 (sold three years ago).

Here some examples (D300+4/300 +500D)
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 22, 2017, 20:16:15
Didier: Interesting idea. I guess some 500D must be around one of my accessory boxes. Or I have the B&W equivalent. You encourage me to search and try it. Thank you.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Bjørn Jorde on August 23, 2017, 05:32:11
Frank, thanks for your responses, very useful.
I find the bare 300 PF to be extremely versatile, adding an extension looks like would make it even more so. Probably not to sacrifice my TC-14E II, but maybe if a III ends up in my bag.

Roland, thanks for the detailed calculations.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Grahame Hamblin on August 23, 2017, 07:12:46
apochromatic diopters work fine
Grahame
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 23, 2017, 10:06:28
Do not sacrifice a Mark three. Go for a cheapo Mark one or Mark two you can find on eBay. I will continue research and share results also on my other Dr Lens modified Tele converter the 20E II
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 23, 2017, 10:17:42
I just found and tried my 77mm NL-3 from B+W. Sorry, no cake. I get some foggy dreamy effect and AF does refuse to work. Is it  the wrong close up lens?
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: F2F3F6 on August 23, 2017, 11:40:33
Frank, your B+W nearlens n° 3 is probably a single-element close-up lens; the two (multicoated) elements diopters of Nikon and Canon (and other makers) should be much better !
Perhaps someone here could give a try ?
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: chris dees on August 23, 2017, 13:07:00
Quick and dirty. Handhold and not critical sharp.
D810, 300PF, Canon 500D
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 23, 2017, 13:43:26
Chris: what is the range of distances you can cover with your 500D???
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: chambeshi on August 23, 2017, 17:27:43
Last year, after failing to find the Nikon 5T or 6T Used, I bought a set of Hoya closeups [the ] and use these with the Kenko ext ring set, which retain full AF and metering. Most pleased with how these work on the 70-180 Micro-Nikkor (although this lens has sluggish AF).
The Kenko ext rings also work very well in trials with the 200 f2G and 300 f2.8G
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: chris dees on August 23, 2017, 21:25:53
Chris: what is the range of distances you can cover with your 500D???

How do I measure this ???
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 24, 2017, 06:50:14
How do I measure this ???

Set the lens to infinity and focus by changing the distance of tze camera to the subject, measure from the film plane to the target, then set the lens to nearest possible setting and measure again.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 25, 2017, 19:34:41
Today I did a series with the tc-20E II (deglassed by Dr. Lens). Very good results too. But the first sample is my 77mm NL-3 from B+W and I dedicate the shot to Jakov:

Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 25, 2017, 20:01:14
So here is the tc-20E first results on the 300PF:

Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 25, 2017, 20:03:53
My verdict: critical sharpness is not achieved. You get usable results after post. The limit for achieving sharpness is about arms length so much better than with the TC-14E.

BUT: IQ is dramatically better with the TC-14Emod:
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: ColinM on August 25, 2017, 22:19:03
Thanks for posting these Frank.

Can you tell us what the oval shaped fruits are in   smalledit_KO7_1799_.JPG ?
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Grahame Hamblin on August 26, 2017, 01:04:06
Taken 300pf plus a plus 3 diopter  hand held need more practice but has possibilities  about 20 cms distance
Grahame
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on August 26, 2017, 01:08:39
Taken 300pf plus a plus 3 diopter  hand held need more practice but has possibilities  about 20 cms distance
Grahame

Superb shot. I bought a Canon 500D Diopter a few days ago. Waiting for delivery.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Grahame Hamblin on August 26, 2017, 01:18:26
Thanks Frank it has lots of possibilities hand holding at 82 is a problem
Grahame
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Grahame Hamblin on September 01, 2017, 23:59:39
I called this one moon walker I know not sharp but family love it  300 plus 3+ diopter
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Peter Connan on September 03, 2017, 19:03:46
For a while now I have been using the older 300f4 AF-S for larger insects which are often too skittish for dedicated macro lenses.

However, instead of using extension tubes, I have used a normal un-modified TC1.4.

Of course, this setup is not stabilized, and the AF is probably much poorer than the PF, so all I suggesting here is the possible use of a normal TC rather than an extension tube.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 04, 2017, 04:09:06
Peter: Impressive results.


I am contemplating to get the TC-14E III in addition to my extension tubes. But this can wait. Even 450mm equivalent field of view seems quite long to me already, given I got my first Tele lens last year after stopping shot at 135mm since I started taking photos on a daily basis in 1983
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 26, 2017, 20:20:16
some more on the D850

1. yellow beets
2. flaming flower
3. saw tooth leaf
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: PeterN on September 26, 2017, 21:09:03
It is an interesting experiment! My favos are your dreamy first and subtle last. Great composition!
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm extension
Post by: longzoom on September 26, 2017, 21:28:45
David: very interesting what you do. From me macro was always tripod and manual focus and small subject distance. With a long stabilized lens with superb AF they spontaneous, emotional shot is achievable. A new field opens. I really like the 105VR optically, but I hate the CAR and the AF because they are not really helpful tracking bees in flight which is my goal. With the D500 and very soon the D850 the AF and VR of the long version 300PF is superb. A bit of practice and you hope to create amazing stuff I could not create with my earlier equipment. Nice to hear that the 70-200 and 200-500 are also useful. Very interesting. Wish I had more time(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7445/27643664731_14815b2321_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/J7M1ra)20160616-119-2 (https://flic.kr/p/J7M1ra) by (https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/27617608842_2a2a1f55fd_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/longzo[url=https://flic.kr/p/J5tsVG)20160616-119 (https://flic.kr/p/J5tsVG) by longzoom (https://www.flickr.com/photos/longzoom/), on Flickrom/]longzoom[/url], on Flickr to shoot & edit(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7716/27107713373_525e767e04_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hiq7Lv)20160616-115 (https://flic.kr/p/Hiq7Lv) by longzoom (https://www.flickr.com/photos/longzoom/), on Flickr
.     About a year ago I did try my 80-400G with extensions, for some project. Try was not successful. Then, I tried Canon 500D, got a 1:1.5 magn on FF, at 400mm, and clear 1:1 on DX. VR and AF were up to task! So the image of my wristwatch, 2 crops. Sorry for some uneven sharpness, handheld with less than 2mm of DOF, so last crop  from a different pic, but you get the idea.  THX!.  LZ
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 26, 2017, 22:45:13
A technical nit-pick: if you get 1:1.5 magnification on FX, you get exactly the same on DX. Magnification is a scaling and thus entirely independent of format of the capturing media. To illustrate; 1:1 life-size on 8x10" is a close facial portrait.

Thus magnification and hence depth of field is equal, but the field of view is different (since the formats are different). Familiar to everyone using a wide range of formats in the older days (I shot anything from 35mm film to 8x0").
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: longzoom on September 26, 2017, 22:56:16
Out of questions - of course I get the same magn! But due to smaller sensor it is ease to say I get 1:1 magn on DX! Yeah, everything is the same - distance, focus in mm, but covering of the field is less than FF! Absolutely correct - field of view is different!  THX!  LZ
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on September 26, 2017, 23:49:28
This has a bearing on what is the best approach to avoid the dreaded issue of  'empty' magnification. Going to a larger format which requires less secondary magnification is not always optimal. One has to consider each case independently and optimise accordingly.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on September 27, 2017, 12:10:04
longzoom: I bought the Canon 500D Diopter a while ago and carry it in my bag, but did not use it yet. Good reminder to use it.
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 30, 2018, 11:55:33
Following the discussion here I got myself a 500D, the best available Diopter as far as I know. I tested it side by side in the spring flowerd garden. The clear winner by roughly one light year is the 23mm AF-S extension by Dr Lens!

I do not show the diopter shots here, I might post them in "my best unsharp picture"
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: longzoom on April 30, 2018, 12:59:44
Yes, nice samples, Frank! It means that there is not any easy equal approaching in the ART! My 80-400G was not as successful with EXT, as it is with diopter, with its fully workable AF and VR, what is critical for me. THX!   LZ
Title: Re: The 300PF as a stabilized Macro on 23mm & 52mm extension
Post by: Frank Fremerey on April 30, 2018, 13:06:44
Yes, nice samples, Frank! It means that there is not any easy equal approaching in the ART! My 80-400G was not as successful with EXT, as it is with diopter, with its fully workable AF and VR, what is critical for me. THX!   LZ

Thank you. What also shines here is the next to nothing color rendition of the D850. These images are not polished at all, the quality of the extension plus 300PF is simply stunnig. Plus I feel the subtle color transitions the D850 is able to record are very difficult to maintain in an edit with more pop!

PS: I will keep the 500D Diopter for the time being, trying it with other lenses

PPS: What I really like about the EXT is that I have a lot of compositional freedom. The diopter forces me into a very small frame variation. I have to focus by body movement, while the EXT enables me to move in rougly 70 centimeters of focus range.