NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: richardHaw on June 09, 2017, 19:30:30

Title: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 09, 2017, 19:30:30
Really loving this lens a lot! Just overhauled it and now I am looking for one to convert to F-mount :o :o :o
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 09, 2017, 19:32:20
This is an amazing lens! I will make an article on how I am going to convert mine to F-mount!!!!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 09, 2017, 19:33:47
All of the pictures above were all shot at f/2 (wide-open) :o :o :o
the lens has dings here and there so it will not stop-down properly. I will work on that as soon as I get permission to mill the lens because this is not mine ::)
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: the solitaire on June 10, 2017, 00:57:33
Which camera did you use the Biotar with? This looks amazing!
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Akira on June 10, 2017, 01:00:24
Nice images.  You used Df?
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 10, 2017, 03:21:11
Yes, the Nikon Df  :o :o :o

this is such a sharp but creamy lens wide-open. the Nikkors of the same vintage has nothing compared to this
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Fons Baerken on June 10, 2017, 05:07:43
Very nice especially the first series,.. lovely buddha statue :)
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: tommiejeep on June 10, 2017, 06:44:39
Richard, nice.  As someone who shoots quite a bit of Street, I really like the last two.  Nice angle on the last.   I use zone with the MF lenses on the Sony since I can use higher ISO and shoot at f8.  Were you sitting, crouching or hip shot? 

The Nikon 58 1.4G is always mounted on the Df from late afternoon into the night.
Thanks for posting.
Tom
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 10, 2017, 08:31:40
This Zeiss lens could be classified as "JacovianJakovian" :D
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Jakov Minić on June 10, 2017, 10:07:15
Jakovian opinion on the creamy and delightful out of focus areas is Jakovian :D
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on June 10, 2017, 10:12:08
Sorry for the wrong spelling ... Post edited.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Thomas Stellwag on June 10, 2017, 10:52:56
I like this lens as well, nice pictures you did with it

for others who want to convert: alternatively start with a Helios 44-2, which is a clone of this CZJ.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Per Inge Oestmoen on June 11, 2017, 00:19:01
Yes, the Nikon Df  :o :o :o

this is such a sharp but creamy lens wide-open. the Nikkors of the same vintage has nothing compared to this


Are the Carl Zeiss Jena lenses still in production?
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 11, 2017, 08:08:11


Are the Carl Zeiss Jena lenses still in production?



No, this is the 1950s version  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 11, 2017, 08:09:22
I like this lens as well, nice pictures you did with it

for others who want to convert: alternatively start with a Helios 44-2, which is a clone of this CZJ.

Thanks! how similar is the performance? :o :o :o
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 11, 2017, 08:10:50
Jakovian opinion on the creamy and delightful out of focus areas is Jakovian :D

this lens excdeeded my expectations :o :o :o in every way!
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on June 11, 2017, 08:12:17
Richard, nice.  As someone who shoots quite a bit of Street, I really like the last two.  Nice angle on the last.   I use zone with the MF lenses on the Sony since I can use higher ISO and shoot at f8.  Were you sitting, crouching or hip shot? 

The Nikon 58 1.4G is always mounted on the Df from late afternoon into the night.
Thanks for posting.
Tom

Thanks! I was shooting from my hips  :o :o :o i just guestimated the distance
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Nasos Kosmas on June 11, 2017, 11:18:28
Thanks! how similar is the performance? :o :o :o
Nice rendering
I only have CJ Biometar 80 2.8 never use it on digital :(
I have this lens an old version with a stop down ring I may use it for you
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Jack Dahlgren on June 11, 2017, 16:02:08
This is an amazing lens! I will make an article on how I am going to convert mine to F-mount!!!!  :o :o :o

Richard,

Your subjects often look inquisitive or even worried. Are they visitors to that location? They don't seem confident where they are. Is that by selection or are most people like that?
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Thomas Stellwag on June 11, 2017, 17:27:59
Thanks! how similar is the performance? :o :o :o

they are very similiar, I´ll show pics in another thread - do not want to interfere here
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 15, 2020, 11:37:15
Also my favourite lens. My only gripe is that having it on D700 I cannot focust past about an meter or so. But for portraits and even some product photography its lovely.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 15, 2020, 12:30:51
The lens design some similarities with 58/2 Helios 44?
I have a nice one in M39 so I think if I get a M39 to M42 ring and use it on a M42 to Z adapter it should work on a Z-camera. May be worth to try….
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 15, 2020, 14:48:26
The Helios is copy of this Biotar, AFAIK. I do not know how exactly Russins made the copy, though.
I have both and Helios can focus bit more further in my case.


Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 15, 2020, 22:10:56
My Helios 44 is quite old but still a 58mm version (not 5.8cm). I was told that the quality control was better at that time. Later came black Helios 44-2 and among these I think there are some sample variations.
I have yet to try my for taking pictures. I had a short period many years ago where I collected Russian cameras and lenses. So I have many lenses to try out on my Z50. Many Russian lenses seems to be Zeiss copies.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 15, 2020, 22:19:32
42-2 is the one I have. Definitely give it a try. Many people enjoy shooting with Helioses, including me.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on May 15, 2020, 22:58:38
i prefer the biotar :o :o :o

there's something missing on the russian lens' images on my samples. the german one is more saturated. ::)

its a great lens. that happened after ww2, as war reparations and booty. that really killed zeiss, leica had it easier because of geography
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 15, 2020, 23:03:43
The old Helios 44 version looks like this.
I had the chance to use Z50 with kit lens 16-50 at 50/6.3 (wide open :-) ) at ISO 12800 in dull indoor lightning.
For purpose like this just showing something it is useful.

Look forward to try it out even that it may not be on par with Zeiss version.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Matthew Currie on May 16, 2020, 05:09:15
I'll be interested in the Nikon mount conversion for this.  I have a couple of these, one a screw mount, and one a Praktina.  I'm currently using them as macros.  The Praktina is in the remains of the mount for a zoom lens, and manages to focus out to a few feet away, making it not so bad for outdoor bugs and flowers.  The mount fouls the semi-auto button just enough so that you can use the aperture reset as a preset.  The screw mount, I found, fit onto a screw-thread extension tube that's so sloppy that the tube screws well into a T adapter, making a pretty nice close macro.  This one is fully manual. 

I tend to forget sometimes what I've taken with what, so here are a couple from tonight.  Hand held, so the focus isn't super-duper.  The cactus flower was with the Praktina mount and the Peugeot with the screw mount.  That's a Dinky toy 203 I got when I was about 3 in France. 
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: richardHaw on May 16, 2020, 06:05:44
some russian sellers sell them on ebay :o :o :o
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 16, 2020, 08:22:11
I'll be interested in the Nikon mount conversion for this.  I have a couple of these, one a screw mount, and one a Praktina.  I'm currently using them as macros.  The Praktina is in the remains of the mount for a zoom lens, and manages to focus out to a few feet away, making it not so bad for outdoor bugs and flowers.  The mount fouls the semi-auto button just enough so that you can use the aperture reset as a preset.  The screw mount, I found, fit onto a screw-thread extension tube that's so sloppy that the tube screws well into a T adapter, making a pretty nice close macro.  This one is fully manual. 

I tend to forget sometimes what I've taken with what, so here are a couple from tonight.  Hand held, so the focus isn't super-duper.  The cactus flower was with the Praktina mount and the Peugeot with the screw mount.  That's a Dinky toy 203 I got when I was about 3 in France.

If your lenses are M39 thread and made for Russian SLR like my version they can only be used for close distance on a F-mount body. But using a M39 to M42 ring (it is a ring without any flange) and then a M42 adapter for Z-mount it can focus to about 10m or so. So for portraits and "bokeh" images this combination works. I just tried it on both Helios-40 and 44 on Z50. But it could be nice with a dedicated adapter that can makes these lenses infinity focus. Maybe using a M39 to Z  (for Leica LTM) and then some dedicated Z extension rings it would be possible to hit the correct distance.   
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: John Geerts on May 16, 2020, 08:31:45
If your lenses are M39 thread and made for Russian SLR like my version they can only be used for close distance on a F-mount body. But using a M39 to M42 ring (it is a ring without any flange) and then a M42 adapter for Z-mount it can focus to about 10m or so.
There is a direct M39-Z adapter   https://www.kentfaith.com/KF06.389_m39-lenses-to-nikon-z-mount-camera-adapter (https://www.kentfaith.com/KF06.389_m39-lenses-to-nikon-z-mount-camera-adapter)
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 16, 2020, 08:53:25
There is a direct M39-Z adapter   https://www.kentfaith.com/KF06.389_m39-lenses-to-nikon-z-mount-camera-adapter (https://www.kentfaith.com/KF06.389_m39-lenses-to-nikon-z-mount-camera-adapter)

I have one of those adapters. It is for LTM (like Leica rangefinder lenses) and it works perfect using a e.g. Jupiter-8 50/2 lens which is a rangefinder lens. But the M39 Helios 44 I have is not a rangefinder lens but a SLR lens so register distance does not fit using the adapter above. Some additional distance is needed.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 16, 2020, 13:19:28
I found out with some google search the different lens registrations:

M42 adapter: 45.46 mm
M39 Soviet SLR lenses: 45.2 mm
LTM (39 mm): 28.8 mm
T2 adapter: 55 mm

The above confirms using a M39 Helios-44 using M42 adapter via a M39-M42 ring that it is 0.26 mm from reaching infinity focus. 
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 19, 2020, 00:10:05
Should I go or not..... Small boy pondering following his older brother.  :-)

Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 22, 2020, 22:31:04
Swirly character.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: CS on May 22, 2020, 22:55:19
Is that a glass background, or am I looking at lens bokeh?
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: golunvolo on May 22, 2020, 23:58:52
Those are beautiful portraits. Marks the character and emotions.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 22, 2020, 23:59:26
Bokeh. There is a tree on the right side. The bark looks interesting, doesn’t it?
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: CS on May 23, 2020, 00:31:40
Bokeh. There is a tree on the right side. The bark looks interesting, doesn’t it?


Yes.




Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Mimsie on April 30, 2025, 08:39:27
Taken with a manual 17 blades model on D700 at the longest end of the focus which was around 2 meters
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Fons Baerken on April 30, 2025, 14:40:55
Helios-44-2 on Zf

Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: ColinM on April 30, 2025, 20:42:14
Quote from: Petr
Should I go or not..... Small boy pondering following his older brother.  :-)


I really like ypur two portraits Petr

Taken with a manual 17 blades model on D700 at the longest end of the focus which was around 2 meters

Welcome aboard Mimsie
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Airy on April 30, 2025, 23:39:58
Another Helios 44-2 on Zf. Wide open and at minimum focussing distance, central sharpness is pretty high, which is uncommon. Also, the vignetting is reasonable. On the downside, LoCA is conspicuous (see the green fringing) and off-center sharpness is low.
I'd be curious to see how the revised Biotar (58/1.5) by Meyer Görlitz behaves in comparison.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: pluton on May 01, 2025, 07:00:32
Taken with a manual 17 blades model on D700 at the longest end of the focus which was around 2 meters
The "old style" of the sculpture and lens rendering work together!
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: F2F3F6 on May 01, 2025, 18:42:30
Nice rendering for the Carl Zeiss Biotar (first model).

The Helios 44 2,0/58 is a nice lens, a nice copy of the Biotar, but you can find many "wobbling" Helioses, the first ones being aluminium bodies. I prefer the 44 K the last model for construction but it is the one with mulicoating and more bulky, and alas, with less swirly bokeh...(and 8 straight aperture blades only, the oldest have more (10 ? 12 ? I don't remember...)

You can't always win ! A nice copy of Helios 44M black or 44K can be found for 50-80 € here in France ! it works good with Nikon Z : Zfc or Z50 give you a "85mm equivalent" portrait lens or Z fullframe for a nice 58mm, the poor man's Noct or neonoct !

Enjoy !
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 02, 2025, 21:57:55
I have those two Helios 44 lenses. One for M39 (SLR) lens and the other for the Soviet Start SLR camera (left).
I tried to sell my Soviet Start NOS in box SLR camera + Helios 44 (bayonet mount) but was not able to sell it (even at a quite low price).
Then I searched for an adapter to use the Helios on a digital mirrorless body and found a person in Ukraine that printed such adapters (M39 (LTM)). Then it was easy to put on a M39 LTM to Z adapter.
The Helios for the Start camera has 13 aperture blades. I have not really used it yet but tried it tonight with the picture of the dog at f/2. I can see I hit sharpness at its nose.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: MEPER on May 02, 2025, 22:39:19
The other Helios 44 with M39 SLR mount I found a few images where I used it on Z50 with adapter.
It was used stopped down a bit so not for any bokeh-purpose. I remember I was surprised that it was quite sharp.
I added one of the images and a 100% crop. I think there is a vintage look to the colors which can be quite nice?
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: ARTUROARTISTA on May 02, 2025, 23:59:27
Dried almond tree from Campillo de Adentro. START HELIOS 44 camera, 2/58
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 03, 2025, 00:22:45
Thank you, Colin.

Today I took few shots. Thyme is fully open, liquid shot is at 5.6.
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Fons Baerken on May 03, 2025, 08:59:14
Many great examples of a lens, I personally find a bitch to handle well at least the copy i have ;)
Title: Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 (picture heavy!)
Post by: Petr sheepeck Jůza on May 03, 2025, 19:25:53
I have to take a bunch of shots if I want to get some decent. Especially if shooting with fully open aperture. :-)