NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: richardHaw on June 02, 2017, 06:05:14
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Just noticed that there weren't any threads about this lens here after doing a search :o :o :o
I am liking this lens a lot but I do not see myself using this as one of my "regular lenses" ::)
i do not like the handling much due to the thin rings and grips, in fact, the GN handles a bit better.
I do prefer this over the voigtlander lenses due to the colour coded scale which means a lot to me. they can be difficult to see on the silver version but it works.
this and the GN are Nikon's tessars. while tessar has a doublet for a rear element, this one has a convex element for one. the doublet is the 2nd group.
correction, it has the same layout as the tessar!!! this is a true "tessar-like" lens! just took a peek at my notes!
very sharp lens and the contrast looks more like that of modern lenses (it is anyway) instead of the usual older Ai look.
I got this from the junker with a damaged aperture ring that I have to bend back to shape and grind stuff underneath to make it work. ::)
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this and the GN are Nikon's tessars. while tessar has a doublet for a rear element, this one has a convex element for one. the doublet is the 2nd group.
Really? I didn't know that. So, it is rather like Leica Thambar 90mm or Hektors 73mm and 135mm?
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no, wait! I am wrong! the last element is indeed a doublet! :o :o :o
it is a true "tessar-like" lens!
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Rick, thanks for the confirmation. Looking forward to the blog. :)
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From the mir site, this picture shows the optics of the 45GN. The optics of the 45P aren't identical but very similar. The rear doublet is clear:
(https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/special/images/45mmgnmap.gif)
I bought a 45P with my FM3a, but eventually sold it, found the controls too narrow, uncomfortable to handle. I prefer the better handling and speed of the AI 50/1.8 :)
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which reminds me, i need to work on a 50/1.8 this weekend ::)
Now, the biggest deviation from the original tessar design that I saw was the placement of the iris. Nikon's had it in between groups 1&2 while the original had it between groups 2&3
let me check my GN blog post. I forgot about that. I just updated it the other day with information about inverse square and why a cam system had to be employed instead of a helicoid. :o :o :o
(https://nikongear.net/revival/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpensimples.sunnyday.jp%2Fcontens-equipments%2Flens_ai_45mm_28p%2Felement_ai_nikkor_45mm_28.jpg&hash=82271b668fb4c8d25541eb10fad669f654558405)
this is for the Ai-P in comparison. I am not sure if the source is accurate but it does seem so because I remember clearly that the flint element looks exactly like that
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Decoupling the focusing and aperture operation on the GN 45 is a must in my opinion. Focusing still won't be as smooth as on an ordinary Nikkor, but the focusing ring now loses much of the jerkiness associated with the original configuration.
To tell the truth, I prefer the old GN due to it being easier to operate than the 45P. The focusing collar is not only scalloped but wider as well thus providing a much better grip than with the new model. Sharpness might be a tad lower than of the 45P, and colours are more muted, but the overall effect is very pleasing.
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To tell the truth, I prefer the old GN due to it being easier to operate than the 45P.
yes, i felt that too :o :o :o
i also agree with the contrast assessment. this may be due to the newer coatings ::) this was what I noticed first.
I re-lubed my GN again this time with heavier grease and now the focus ring feels so much better.
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For the 45mm 2.8 Ai-P It might be worth a try to make a combined lens hood and focus ring for improved/wider manual focusing ring width,,,
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For the 45mm 2.8 Ai-P It might be worth a try to make a combined lens hood and focus ring for improved/wider manual focusing ring width,,,
yes. that is a good idea! I am doing that with my W-Nikkors for RF, as you know they can be a pain to turn (aperture ring) :o :o :o i also intend to have numbers engraved on it as soon as I learn how to do it with precision.
a step-down ring was my initial choice until I learned about the Haas Mini Mill ::)
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Sharpness might be a tad lower than of the 45P, and colours are more muted, but the overall effect is very pleasing.
There was a multi-coated 45GN but it was not badged as such. I had one in my hand. It was up for sale in a "Dutch Auction." I didn't bid on it. I should have mostly as a cheap collectable but then I'm not really a collector so I passed.
Dave Hartman
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Richard, Bjørn started one here: http://nikongear.net/revival/index.php/topic,561.0.html
The 45P has been mentioned in many different threads, but it's good that you have started a dedicated one!
I will NOT state how much I like this lens :)
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Wonderful dinky Nikkor. Both being incomparably compact and light, the 45 AIP makes the perfect pair with the 20mm f4.
Here's a few synopses from my Nikon database
"In an age when many photographers could be forgiven for thinking that most manufacturers have dispensed with the production of manual focus lenses for the 35mm film format, Nikon sprung a very pleasant surprise in 2001 when they announced the Nikkor 45mm f/2.8P lens. Introduced to compliment the then new Nikon FM3A camera the lens is similar in size to the much earlier GN-Nikkor 45mm f/2.8. It has a simple 4-element 3-group Tessar-type design that gives a 50° angle-of-view. Ultra-compact it extends just 17mm in front of the camera, only weighs 120g, and takes 52mm filters. Although a manual focus optic it has a built-in CPU so that it is compatible with all exposure modes on modern Nikon cameras, including the F5, F I 00, FSO, F6S, and of course the FM3A. It has the advantage of Nikon's latest multi-coating technology and a nine-blade diaphragm to improve the appearance of out-of-focus highlights. The lens is incredibly sharp and produces images with full contrast and colour saturation. Initially released with an elegant chrome finish on the outer surface of its barrel and all black version is now available as well. The lens is supplied with a Nikon NC filter and the dedicated HN-35 hood, which match the finish of the lens." Simon Stafford – New Nikon Compendium
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There arent really many lenses left out there which could really excite me but the Nikkor Ai-P 45mm f/2.8 qualifies here. The Pentax folks have lots of ´em whereas there´s only one (recent) Nikkor and no Canon EF equivalent at all in this category - it is a so-called pancake lens. The meaning gets pretty obvious when looking at the lens: it is flat with a "length" of a mere 17mm ... and it is sweet. 8-)
Verdict
The Nikkor Ai-P 45mm f/2.8 may be a cute lens but it is also a very serious performer with very high resolution, marginal distortions, moderate CAs and quite well-controlled vignetting. The build quality is very good. The problem may be that today it represents an answer to a question which was asked long ago. f/2.8 is not exactly fast for a normal lens so the more common f/1.4 and f/1.8 variants tend to make more sense ... at lesser costs. So at the end of the day the meaning of the lens lies in its extremely small form factor. But damn, it is so cute ...
http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/215-nikkor-ai-p-45mm-f28-review--lab-test-report (http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/215-nikkor-ai-p-45mm-f28-review--lab-test-report)
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I have had the Nikon 45mm 2.8 P ever since Nikon first came out with it. The sharpness of it wide open has always been nothing short of amazing to me. The contrast is very high. Almost too high for my tastes except for outdoor nature photography. The only thing about it is I've often wished it were a stop faster. I have plenty of fast glass but if it were f2 there would be many times I could carry one less lens with me which would be nice. Has anyone here used both the Nikon 45mm 2.8 P and the Voigtlander 40mm 2.0? If so can you tell me if the sharpness of both are equal at f2.8? Is the Voigtlander at least acceptable at f2.0? Also it would be a bonus if it had lower contrast than the Nikon 45mm.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3078474 (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3078474)
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Recommended focusing screens: K, E, H, R.
Conclusion. In an era where you couldn't get a usable ISO 3200 out of a camera, you might have thought a lens like this was slow. But today, it's a different story - and one of these on something like a D700 makes for a very flat package with very high quality results. Even for sunnier days with film, it's a great companion to an F3. And if you come from the Leica world, this lens even focuses in the right direction!
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/gn-nikkor.html (http://www.dantestella.com/technical/gn-nikkor.html)
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This guy is a modern remake of the old Guide-Number Nikkor 45mm f/2.8 whose forte was being able to set the old flashes to the optimal output per focal distance using the guide numbers written on the opposite side of the focusing ring than the distance scale. Today, that was replaced with a CPU chip and better lens coating, but the old Zeiss Tessar design remained and made this the only true and smallest pancake lens in Nikon’s (and well, Canon’s) lineup to-date. Haven’t had a chance to really put this guy to work yet, but some snaps I took thus far were pretty smooth. Package, being a collector’s, comes with the NC 52mm filter matching the lens’ color, its own special metal screw-on hood, special front cap, color-matched back cap (didn’t get this one), and its own soft pouch (eluded me as well). Main highlights are the mostly metal build (minus the aperture ring), super-compact design, short throw of the focus ring (unlike most primes, though I prefer this for quicker re-focusing once you get the fine-focusing down using a shorter throw), unique hood and cap that fits right over it, and ability to use it on both film and digital bodies. Special note here- to use this on digital bodies via CPU, you have to set the aperture ring to the minimum 22 and control it via body; however, while you lose the ability to manually dial in classic Nikon full-stops, it allows 1/3 stops like any modern G lens via on-board controls. Pretty worthy trade off if you ask me.
Main kicker- its SUPER compact/thin kinda lens- Fully extended focus doesn’t add too much either- And the cap is designed to fit over the hood!
Today, this is almost purely a collectible lens, but that won’t stop me from going to a unique edge due to its design.
And couple edits- All in all, extremely portable and fairly versatile street/general purpose lens. Not much fringing with this one thanks to the Tessar design, awesome quality, 1/3 stops for aperture, and a full-metal build that many modern lenses lack in favor of being lighter.
Saving the best for last, how this one scatters the light: Unlike more modern designs that scatter light like an asterisk ( * ), Tessar lenses scatter light in lovely flower petals due to the internal design. Not something we will ever see in the future.
http://skvoraltdphoto.com/review-nikkor-45mm-f2-8-ai-p/ (http://skvoraltdphoto.com/review-nikkor-45mm-f2-8-ai-p/)
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These reports cover pretty much the basic sentiments the users have towards the 45P.
A small, but important point, is of course that all current medium or higher-end Nikons can be set to use the aperture ring of the lens, instead of the brain-dead and non-ergonomic camera dial. Taking the reports at face value would indicate this isn't possible.
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There was a multi-coated 45GN but it was not badged as such.
The multicoated 45GN is marked ".C" (GN Auto NIKKOR·C) like other multicoated lenses of the same period.
See: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_45mm_f2.8_763981.html
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I own two (black) copies of the 45/2.8P and it's my lens cap for my D800. Sharpness wide open at 36MP is great in the central 2/3'rds of the frame, but the edges suffer considerably. Stop it down to f/5.6 and all is incredibly sharp across the frame except for the last 1% in the far corners.
Only real issue is the problems with flare/ghosting and not the greatest sun stars as a result.
I have no issues with the aperture/focusing ring mechanics as I adapted quite quickly - still way better than the 40/1.4 Voigtlander (that I have since sold because of the mechanics and being not that sharp even stopped down).
A modern 45/2.8P version would be fantastic.
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The multicoated 45GN is marked ".C" (GN Auto NIKKOR·C) like other multicoated lenses of the same period.
See: http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_45mm_f2.8_763981.html
This one didn't have the "C". There were some lens that were quietly multi-coated by both Nikon and Canon that weren't marked as such. As I recall Pentax kicked off advertisement of multi-coated lenses.
Dave
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I bailed out of Nikon in 1976 to start a Hasselblad system with T* multi-coated lenses. As planned I started a new Nikon System in 1978 with multi-coated then AI Nikkors. I don't think I bought any K type lenses. I did have a 105/2.5 Nikkor-C, AI and AIS all at the same time. I don't remember why I had the Nikkor-C. I AI(Ed) the Nikkor-C and sold it.
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Quote from: Erik Lund on June 02, 2017, 11:04:55
For the 45mm 2.8 Ai-P It might be worth a try to make a combined lens hood and focus ring for improved/wider manual focusing ring width,,,
yes. that is a good idea! I am doing that with my W-Nikkors for RF, as you know they can be a pain to turn (aperture ring) :o :o :o i also intend to have numbers engraved on it as soon as I learn how to do it with precision.
a step-down ring was my initial choice until I learned about the Haas Mini Mill ::)
Interesting suggestion. One possibility is to modify a Nikon bayonet lens hood with its internal diameter close to fit over the 45 AIP focusing ring (outer dia of my lens, the black model is 60.4mm). It must be narrow to not block the distance scale, or better indented for that section.
This mod would be along the lines of HK-3 - the great accessory for the 20mm f4AI. The locking screw tightens a spring steel ring around the rubber grip of the focusing ring. (The HK-3 is scarce but well worth the search if one is committed to the 20 f4.)
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Couple of photos of HK-3 the specialized lens hood for the 20 f4AI. And a comparison of the 20 f4 and 45 f2.8AIP on the Df - with 200 f2G for towering context :-)
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lots of interesting feedbacks :o :o :o
wasn't expecting this lens to be this popular here ::)
it's a pretty nice lens. the biggest flaw I can see is the design.
- not using a proper diamond knurling pattern on the aperture iris makes it difficult to distinguish which ring you are holding. having it also aids grip
- not having a grip unlike the GN makes this lens awkward to mount and remove
- DOF and distance scale is useful but colours are weird (on the silver)
- the beauty ring is glued-on plastic. same like almost all AF-D lenses.
this would probably be a nice travel lens but the 50mm f/1.8 Ai-S isn't much larger and handles better. It is also faster but 45mm is what I prefer to shoot with. it is an odd focal length but I like it!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rycnn70i9I
from Kenneth Olsen's channel :o :o :o
fixing oily blades ::)
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Only real issue is the problems with flare/ghosting and not the greatest sun stars as a result.
Was my favourite lens used in combo with 105mm f2.5 which complimented each other well on FE2.
Mine is not bad at all - not a lot of flare and light stars pretty cool - haven't shot many sun stars though (smearing is the rain - was lightly drizzling)
JJ