NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: tommiejeep on April 17, 2017, 08:02:02
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I'm looking at a 135mm for the Sony a7rii and know some of you have the subject lens. There is a significant price difference between the new Batis 135 f2.8 and a good copy of the Leica plus the Leica is smaller. Having a hard time finding a late model of the 135 Tele-Elmar M f4 (which is heavier) . My Nikon 135 f2.8 Q is larger than I want for air travel and was not happy with my 135 f2.8 Ais.
Looking for comments on the Leica f3.4 on a Sony a7xx.
Many thanks,
Tom
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I'm looking at a 135mm for the Sony a7rii and know some of you have the subject lens. There is a significant price difference between the new Batis 135 f2.8 and a good copy of the Leica plus the Leica is smaller. Having a hard time finding a late model of the 135 Tele-Elmar M f4 (which is heavier) . My Nikon 135 f2.8 Q is larger than I want for air travel and was not happy with my 135 f2.8 Ais.
Looking for comments on the Leica f3.4 on a Sony a7xx.
Many thanks,
Tom
My copy is excellent across the frame straight from wide open on my A7RII. It's my 135mm travel lens. I also use it on my m43 body too with excellent results. If you shop carefully you can get one for less than $2K (I got mine for $1800 as I recall).
I wanted the new Batis to be smaller, but perhaps that's the price one pays for supposedly excellent wide open performance and AF.
John
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My copy is excellent across the frame straight from wide open on my A7RII. It's my 135mm travel lens. I also use it on my m43 body too with excellent results. If you shop carefully you can get one for less than $2K (I got mine for $1800 as I recall).
I wanted the new Batis to be smaller, but perhaps that's the price one pays for supposedly excellent wide open performance and AF.
John
So interesting, John! While i had some experience with this lens, about 30-35 yers ago, on its mother's bodies, i was not very successful due to its focusing limitations. Actually this one was not my favorite, even it is great optically, but i am glad you gave it a second life, as well as the others! Would you be so kind to post couple images? THX! LZ
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John, many thanks for replying. I think many were hoping for a Batis 135 f2 . Size seems to have become a non-issue with the new lenses for the Sony FE. Most of the new ones are DSLR size. I am waiting on my Zeiss dealer to give me the best price on the Batis but I think the best he will do is about the same as US prices and that still leaves the size/weight problem.
LZ, nice to hear from you. I use my Leica 75 f2.5 more than I use my Batis 85 and really enjoy the Elmarit M 90 f2.8 so hopefully like the 135 f3.4 (if I get it) . My Pen F has been a very nice surprise shooting Street up to ISO 1600 (3200 is not bad).
All the best,
Tom
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Guys, this is why I am looking for a longer lens. Big crop from the Leica 75 f2.5 / a7rii. Just my normal playing around with PP and people :)
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Beautiful image made by excellent combo! Yeah, you really need a longer lens! THX! LZ
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There is also a manual focus Zeiss Loxia 85/2.4 for Sony E mount.
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Bjorn, yup, but I have a ton of lenses between 75mm and 90mm. I have a Zeiss ZM 85 f4 on the way. I really like my Loxia 50 f2 but the 85 f2.4 is another heavy lens. I just this moment rec'd a price from Zeiss dealer. Beats UK price but more than US price for the Batis 135. Recently sold a lot of gear so size and price is plus for Leica. AF and full use, including better stabilization, on Sony a Plus for Zeiss. Weather sealing is not that big of a deal since the a7xx series bodies are not really that weather resistant (dust is worse than rain :( ) . I am negotiating on a Leica at the moment so will see how that works out and then re-think. Batis is not yet available here.
Cheers and thanks,
Tom
Edit: 've been shooting the two Sonys long enough now that I will now start selling some of my Sony and adapted lenses. I think the Zeiss 85 Tessar T. will replace three lenses on its' own.
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Tom, I don't have the Loxia 85, but thought it belonged in the mix for consideration. :)
I've only heard good things about the ZM 85/4, and it's so tiny it can almost go in acpicket. I've owned the Summarit 75/2.5, and the optics is great, but the focus throw is on the short side.
I think IBIS in the camera does a very good with short focal lengths, so not necessarily a must in a 75/85mm lens. Even 135mm are fine with just IBIS in the camera, I think. Nothing scientific though, just my opinion.
I have over the last years culled my lenses. :o
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Guys, this is why I am looking for a longer lens. Big crop from the Leica 75 f2.5 / a7rii. Just my normal playing around with PP and people :)
Nice candid, and I like the colours.
I can see why you would like the Leica 135/3.4 Apo Telyt.
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Tom, I don't have the Loxia 85, but thought it belonged in the mix for consideration. :)
I've only heard good things about the ZM 85/4, and it's so tiny it can almost go in acpicket. I've owned the Summarit 75/2.5, and the optics is great, but the focus throw is on the short side.
I think IBIS in the camera does a very good with short focal lengths, so not necessarily a must in a 75/85mm lens. Even 135mm are fine with just IBIS in the camera, I think. Nothing scientific though, just my opinion.
I have over the last years culled my lenses. :o
Yes, the 85/4 ZM is excellent on the A7RII. 85/2.4 Lox is even better (heavier, bigger, and more expensive, but worth it in my opinion). The 135/3.4 APO Telyt is the best reasonably-sized 135mm that I've found. There's the new 135/2.8 Batis coming soon and the somewhat scarce 125/2.5 APO CV which should be excellent for this kind of thing, but is also expensive and somewhat heavy. The Zeiss 135/2 is pretty heavy to lug around . . .
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Bjorn, I agree on the IBIS. Works well with my DC105/105 2.5s and Nikon 135 2.8Q but not that good with the 180 f2.8D (actually seems better with the size/weight of the 200 f4 Ais) . I am actually using the Leica 75 2.5 more than the Batis 85but I need the Batis AF for some Events. Thanks for the comment on the image.
John, I've pretty much given up on the APO Lanthar 125mm. Funny , I use the Samyang 135 f2 on the D500 more than on the Df. My dealer made me a great offer on the Loxia 85 but still more than double the price of the Tessar 85 f4 and I really want to get down to lenses I will use regularly instead of 'having available' ;) . At my skill level , I really do not need the very best available :) . I think I will leave the 135mm decision in the hands of the Gods .
I shot a Soccer Tournament last weekend and the D3S seemed to have gained weight... lol ...guess it is time for some morning weight lifting :)
Tom
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Tom, have you ever tried the Nikkor 135/3.5 AIS? My copy was beautifully sharp with good contrast, but I've no idea how it will behave on sensors. LZ
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LZ, funny you should mention that. My wife is picking up a Mint f3.5 Ai on her trip on the first of May along with another copy of the 135 f2.8 Ais. I use a 100 f2.8 E on the Df which is good at short/medium distance but not anything long. I have absolutely no problem selling those locally if they do not suit me.
Many thanks,
Tom
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The AI 135/3.5 works very well on my D600 (if focused properly). Sharpness and contrast are very good.
Optically, it has a similar 4-element arrangement as the 100/2.8 E, but the coatings are better.
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Thanks Roland. I've been on your site a lot recently. Corrected my post on 135 mm f3.5 to read Ai instead of Ais. Thoughts on 135 2.8 Ai vs As? I actually prefer my 105 f2.5 Ai to the 105 2.5 Ais, Same goes for the 28 f2.
Could be just the individual lenses or then again could be me since I keep trying new ones and selling the ones I do not get along with ;) .
Cheers,
Tom
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Tom, I can just see you with a D3S fitted with a 400mm f/2.8, one in each hand frantically working out in the Indian sun! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I shot a Soccer Tournament last weekend and the D3S seemed to have gained weight... lol ...guess it is time for some morning weight lifting :)
Tom
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Hugh, lol ,but it was not that bad. Had D3S/300 2.8vr in hand and D500/70-200 2.8vr on Black Rapid. Still bad and by 11 AM the heat and humidity really got to me. Didn't stay for the Final of the under 12s but had images of each kid doing something that looked like they were Footballers :)
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Thanks Roland. I've been on your site a lot recently. Corrected my post on 135 mm f3.5 to read Ai instead of Ais. Thoughts on 135 2.8 Ai vs As? I actually prefer my 105 f2.5 Ai to the 105 2.5 Ais, Same goes for the 28 f2.
Could be just the individual lenses or then again could be me since I keep trying new ones and selling the ones I do not get along with ;) .
For 135/3.5 I prefer AI over AIS. Optically they are the same, but the AI has a deeper and less wobbly slide-out hood. The Ai has slightly longer focus throw but the AIS is perfectly good so I wouldn't choose on that basis. The AIS 135/3.5 looks identical to the AIS 105/2.5 except the upper barrel is longer.
As for the 135/2.8, in this case I would choose the AIS over AI. Again, they are the same optically so no advantage either way. The AI has a very long focus throw so focusing is very slow, the AIS feels about right. On the lenses I have handled, the AI focus ring is very heavily damped, so in combination with the long focus throw and narrow-ish focus grip, it is not comfortable to use. Servicing might fix that. On the other hand, the hood on the AI is marginally deeper and less wobbly.
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Thanks Roland
All the best
Tom
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Bjorn, I agree on the IBIS. Works well with my DC105/105 2.5s and Nikon 135 2.8Q but not that good with the 180 f2.8D (actually seems better with the size/weight of the 200 f4 Ais) . I am actually using the Leica 75 2.5 more than the Batis 85but I need the Batis AF for some Events. Thanks for the comment on the image.
John, I've pretty much given up on the APO Lanthar 125mm. Funny , I use the Samyang 135 f2 on the D500 more than on the Df. My dealer made me a great offer on the Loxia 85 but still more than double the price of the Tessar 85 f4 and I really want to get down to lenses I will use regularly instead of 'having available' ;) . At my skill level , I really do not need the very best available :) . I think I will leave the 135mm decision in the hands of the Gods .
I shot a Soccer Tournament last weekend and the D3S seemed to have gained weight... lol ...guess it is time for some morning weight lifting :)
Tom
Why did you give up on the 125/2.5 Lanthar?
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For 135/3.5 I prefer AI over AIS. Optically they are the same, but the AI has a deeper and less wobbly slide-out hood. The Ai has slightly longer focus throw but the AIS is perfectly good so I wouldn't choose on that basis. The AIS 135/3.5 looks identical to the AIS 105/2.5 except the upper barrel is longer.
As for the 135/2.8, in this case I would choose the AIS over AI. Again, they are the same optically so no advantage either way. The AI has a very long focus throw so focusing is very slow, the AIS feels about right. On the lenses I have handled, the AI focus ring is very heavily damped, so in combination with the long focus throw and narrow-ish focus grip, it is not comfortable to use. Servicing might fix that. On the other hand, the hood on the AI is marginally deeper and less wobbly.
A couple of days ago I took the 135/3.5 Nikkor-Q (factory AI) with me and didn't notice (stupid) that it had a period appropriate HS-4 hood with the chrome buttons. The hood came off in the bag. I feel lucky the front element didn't get scratched. I need to put that hood somewhere safe where I never use it again.
On all of the 105/2.5(s), 105/2.8 Micro and 135/2.8 K (new), AI and AIS I recommend the Nikon HS-14 hood. It's designed for the 105/2.8 Micro but fits and works fine with all mentioned. I just leave the HS-14 in place and I do not reverse it. The 105/2.5(s) can also use the HS-8 hood. I just will not use the HS-4 or any of the hoods with the chrome release buttons. The come off to easily.
Dave Hartman
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John, probably sounded too final. I've spent time , energy and money trying to find a good copy the lens. No success. If one crosses my path I'll buy :) . Unfortunately I would no have a Dr. Erik to look after it for me ;) .
David, thanks for the info on hoods. I never tried my HS-8 on the 105 2.5 Ais, just did ;D
Tom
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Two drops of epoxy glue judiciously applied to the push-in buttons on the snap-in type hoods and problem solved. Now, you can screw the hood into its position. Threads are less complete than on the native screw-in hoods so the grip to the lens is less secure, but the risk of the hood coming off is greatly reduced.
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Two drops of epoxy glue judiciously applied to the push-in buttons on the snap-in type hoods and problem solved. Now, you can screw the hood into its position. Threads are less complete than on the native screw-in hoods so the grip to the lens is less secure, but the risk of the hood coming off is greatly reduced.
Thanks for the suggestion. I was pondering gluing the threaded section but noted the part is secured with a rivet rather than a screw. Epoxying the chrome buttons should be quite easy. The old hood is saved from the petting zoo. :)
Dave
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John, probably sounded too final. I've spent time , energy and money trying to find a good copy the lens. No success. If one crosses my path I'll buy :) . Unfortunately I would no have a Dr. Erik to look after it for me ;) .
David, thanks for the info on hoods. I never tried my HS-8 on the 105 2.5 Ais, just did ;D
Tom
Tom - just to be clear - you've gotten your hands on a copy, but haven't been happy with it OR you've been unable to find one for sale that's in decent shape at all?
- John
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John, I've not been able to handle one at all. I've had friends , I trust and do have the lens, and dealers looking for one without success. Prices seem to have dropped a bit, or at least stabilized. At this moment I am still deciding between the Leica 135 f3.4 and Batis 135 f2.8. The Nikon 105 f1.4E is calling to me, and cheaper than either of the others, but just heavier than I want to go for the Df. If I were still shooting the D750 .... I've recently seen some D810, 105 E images shot at f1.4 at ISO 64 that increased the NAS.
Sorry I did not see your post earlier.
Cheers,
Tom
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John, I've not been able to handle one at all. I've had friends , I trust and do have the lens, and dealers looking for one without success. Prices seem to have dropped a bit, or at least stabilized. At this moment I am still deciding between the Leica 135 f3.4 and Batis 135 f2.8. The Nikon 105 f1.4E is calling to me, and cheaper than either of the others, but just heavier than I want to go for the Df. If I were still shooting the D750 .... I've recently seen some D810, 105 E images shot at f1.4 at ISO 64 that increased the NAS.
Sorry I did not see your post earlier.
Cheers,
Tom
They don't seem hard to find:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1487073
which is the price I paid for my copy.
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Ouch - I paid about 300 USD for my copy. Not in similar pristine condition, but otherwise fully functional.
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Ouch - I paid about 300 USD for my copy. Not in similar pristine condition, but otherwise fully functional.
Then you got the deal of the century! That is not typical of course.
$1800 USD is about as low as I've seen a really nice copy go for. Lots of higher stuff on ebay.
These guys seem to usually have a used one in stock at a reasonable price, but not at the moment:
http://www.ffordes.com/category/Lenses/Leica/M_Series/Leica#&&SortDirection=Descending&PageIndex=1&SortExpression=SalesPrice
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My "deal of the [20th] Century must be the Noct at USD 150 :D
Edit: oops, my bad. I remembered the lens data incorrectly. My lens is the APO 180 mm f/3.4 not the 135/3.4. Thus the deal might not be as super as I was first led to believe? The lens is very good, though.
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My "deal of the [20th] Century must be the Noct at USD 150 :D
Edit: oops, my bad. I remembered the lens data incorrectly. My lens is the APO 180 mm f/3.4 not the 135/3.4. Thus the deal might not be as super as I was first led to believe? The lens is very good, though.
Ah, yes, that's much better. My first 180/3.4 APO I got for $400 - it was a cosmetic beater, but the optics were excellent (the person I bought it from had bought if off of a surfer dude in Californian, so who knows what stories it could have told). Sold it and paid $800 for an E60 version completely in great shape.
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John, I've pretty much decided on the Leica, and have finally come to a deal with the retired Canon Pro sports shooter who used Leicas for fun and everything else ;) . The Batis is very likely the better lens and certainly easier to use but I often pick up the Summarit 75mm or Elmarit M 90 f2.8 in preference to the Batis 85. Another point in favour of the f3.4 is that it can be used on other systems where as the Sony mount can't be. I've used the Summarit 75 on the EM1, with Kipon M to m43 adapter, but actually really like the Oly 75 1.8. I also think Zeiss will have some offers on the Batis 135 since quite a backlash on the current pricing. Reddot has had a few Telyt APO 135 f3.4 recently but us old sports shooters have to lookout for each other ;D
Cheers,
Tom