Gear Talk => Camera Talk => Topic started by: MFloyd on January 31, 2017, 15:04:16
Title: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on January 31, 2017, 15:04:16
Flying drones has been a leisure activity for a number of years now. Until recently, the main purpose has been flying these, more than using it as a camera; mainly because the lower end cameras had poor image quality; the higher end cameras being unaffordable for non professional use.
The first time that image quality, comfort to fly, and price came into conjunction were with the DJI Mavic Pro, a very compact drone, weighting less than 800 grams, 27' of flight autonomy, dual GPS, remote control with a 5 miles reach, very advanced flight security features, and what is more of interest to this thread, is a camera with a gimbal stabilised camera (mechanical stabilisation rather than electronic one) of 12 Mpx, shooting 4000x3000 px JPEGs and Adobe DNGs.
I propose to discuss camera aspects and pictures only. In the next post, I will show some pictures of our very first trials.
Internet is full of documentation, which I recommend to the interested:
Attachments: (1) control module with smartphone attached (*) (2) size, folded (*) (3) in flight (4) detail of camera with gimbal and removable protection (5) camera technical characteristics (*)
(*) from the net
And before I forget: the price: around €1'200 ready to fly
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: simato73 on February 01, 2017, 16:23:50
Thank you MFloyd, I look forward to reading about your user experience and opinion on image quality. While I agree image quality should be the main focus, also some occasional comment on the ease of use might be useful.
I'll start with a first question: is the camera fixed focus or does it focus? In the latter case, what about aperture control?
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 01, 2017, 18:24:14
Simone, already a first answer: it's a fixed focal length but with auto-focus - not automatic / continuous tough - you have to tap on the screen to define where to focus. The equivalent focus is about 28mm and focuses from 0.5m on. With regard to aperture, I have to look into, but I don't have the drone here.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Peter Forsell on February 01, 2017, 19:00:32
From the specs it seems that the real focal length (not FF equiv.) is 5 mm and the maximum aperture is f/2.2. I put these numbers in DOFmaster and the depth of field is immense. The lens does not require much focusing.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Bjørn J on February 01, 2017, 19:05:07
I haven't tried the Mavic Pro myself, but as far as I know the aperture is fixed wide open. That's why an ND filter might be necessary for video in bright light, to avoid too short shutter speed (video looks best and smoothest with ss around twice the frame rate). I believe the Mavic camera is primarly designed for video - which is what most drone flyers wants anyway. For those of us who wants to take aerial still photographs the options have been few and expensive. My solution was a Sony RX100 mounted on a Phantom 2, and the image quality is superior to what you get from a GoPro for example. I do not know the stills quality from the Mavic, but DJI has recently released the Phantom 4 Pro, it comes with a new camera with a 1" inch Sony sensor and a specially designed (for aerial photos) lens. It seems that DJI have thought of stills photography with the P4Pro, with adjustable aperture and full manual control. I have some RAW-files, and they seem to have at least the same quality as what I get from my RX100 on the P2. The P4Pro is a bit more expensive than the Mavic Pro, and far less portable (not collapsible).
I very much look forward to see photos taken with your Mavic, and I would be interested in some raw-files as well.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 01, 2017, 19:44:30
Herewith two pictures:
(1) view around Brussels (JPEG) (2) view around Charleroi, sloping lock of Ronquières (DNG)
Both have been post-processed. I will post an original DNG image upon my return (I'm traveling)
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Bjørn J on February 01, 2017, 21:54:19
That's not bad at all. Especially the second one. The first one seems a bit oversharpened, maybe the in-camera jpg-prosessing is a bit rough. The camera sensor in the Mavic is 1/2.3" the same size as in most inexpensive compact cameras, and the image quality is what one could expect. It seems the gimbal stabilisation works fine, no blur from the vibrations.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 01, 2017, 22:50:36
The one was processed a bit extremely, but on purpose. The gimbal seems to work fine as for the last one there was of lot of wind. I rank the quality at the level of a the better high-end smartphones e.g. iPhone 6s and the like.
Below, same picture, out of the box, without post processing (at least, the one decided by the author, and not Lr)
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: simato73 on February 01, 2017, 23:02:06
I haven't tried the Mavic Pro myself, but as far as I know the aperture is fixed wide open. That's why an ND filter might be necessary for video in bright light, to avoid too short shutter speed (video looks best and smoothest with ss around twice the frame rate). I believe the Mavic camera is primarly designed for video - which is what most drone flyers wants anyway. For those of us who wants to take aerial still photographs the options have been few and expensive. My solution was a Sony RX100 mounted on a Phantom 2, and the image quality is superior to what you get from a GoPro for example. I do not know the stills quality from the Mavic, but DJI has recently released the Phantom 4 Pro, it comes with a new camera with a 1" inch Sony sensor and a specially designed (for aerial photos) lens. It seems that DJI have thought of stills photography with the P4Pro, with adjustable aperture and full manual control. I have some RAW-files, and they seem to have at least the same quality as what I get from my RX100 on the P2. The P4Pro is a bit more expensive than the Mavic Pro, and far less portable (not collapsible).
I very much look forward to see photos taken with your Mavic, and I would be interested in some raw-files as well.
Hi Bjørn, good to hear from you, I haven't seen you around for a while. Your thoughts sum up nicely what I also think. I really like the idea if the Mavic Pro, its portability and ease of use, but as a stills photographer I am wondering - and somewhat doubting - whether the camera meets my image quality requirements. I have seen a review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ayC-VIqwho (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ayC-VIqwho)) and in terms of stills quality the Phantom 4 Pro was leaps and bounds ahead, as one can imagine. I would not be too bothered by the cost of the Phantom 4 Pro if it weren't for the much lower portability. I would not think twice taking the Mavic pro on a long hike on the mountains, not so the Phantom 4 Pro.
Now, if they could only fit that 1' sensor and lens on the Mavic Pro...
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: simato73 on February 01, 2017, 23:04:10
Perhaps the question on the image quality could be re-framed as follows: how well and how big would files from the Mavic Pro print?
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Jan Anne on February 01, 2017, 23:17:54
DJI really got a lot of design features right with the Mavic Pro, and half of them aren't even advertised :o
Drone Valley discovered a while back that that the controller can hold a Mini iPad which should be more useful than a phone:
This channel is btw much more informative than most tech "reviewer" sites.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Jakov Minić on February 01, 2017, 23:23:48
MFloyd, the first one is great. It must very exiting to do drone photography!
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 01, 2017, 23:54:58
Thank you Jakov, thank you everybody for having marked your interest and contribution to this thread. I hope that I will (continue to) resist for not buying a higher end drone, such as the Inspire 1 or 2. The equation, as already said, lies also with portability and cost; but offset by lesser quality.
I will continue to feed this thread with other images, just hoping for better weather.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Jan Anne on February 02, 2017, 00:35:33
Its with drones as it is with cameras, the best one is the one you have with you.
The Mavic Pro is so small it fits easily in any camera bag, it simply replaces one lens room wise. No other serious drone can do that and I'll prefer probability of use over ultimate IQ any day for registering my travel impressions.
And yes I'll buy one as well somewhere in the coming months :)
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Erik Lund on February 02, 2017, 20:16:22
Amazingly compact! Very cleaver design! Also the resoults are very good indeed!
Now here they say don't fly your drone next to populated area roads or buildings,,,
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 03, 2017, 09:24:44
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Erik Lund on February 03, 2017, 09:48:03
Thanks for the provided image!
The field of view is much better for my use than the other DJI offerings.
For video it looks quite acceptable, but the still image is not quite what I was looking for.
I have watched a couple of videos online and must say I very impressed by the performance!
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 03, 2017, 10:07:55
The two pictures were made in far from ideal circumstances i.e. a lot of moisture in the air etc. But not withstanding of the foregoing, we already see the limits of the possible obtainable image quality. And this might just not be good enough for the members of this forum. As all computer HDD - hard disks - will crash one time or the other, it is the same for drones, although more literally; and, for the time being, I'm ready to expose €1000 plus but not more, unless I become more proficient. Let's say it's a "toe in the water" 😊. It gives wonderful perspectives, though, for landscape photographers, and even much more for videographers. And I'm quite sure that the next iteration of the DJI Mavic Pro will be with an even better sensor e.g. a 1" one at an affordable price.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: PedroS on February 03, 2017, 10:23:56
In fact, really portable, but IQ still so~so...
My experience is limited to a full size drone carrying a full DSRL body for architectural purposes, so I'm spoiled...
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 03, 2017, 11:25:12
Pedro, please do not hesitate to post some of your pictures here, so that everybody can assess the quality 😎
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: PedroS on February 05, 2017, 13:21:04
I had to plunge on the non approved ones. Here's a drone photo of a particular architectural project that will land near Palácio da Ajuda
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Erik Lund on February 05, 2017, 16:18:13
Not sure what camera/drone was used Pedro, but image quality seems about the same as the Mavic Pro from the linked JPG. Or an I missing something?
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: PedroS on February 05, 2017, 21:03:44
Hi Erik, I can see a great difference in quality, not only in definition but also on maintained and respected perspectives. Nevertheless I had just that session using a rent drone (and a rent pilot...). Don't remember the model, but it was big, had a 4Kg lifting power, and full of features. The photo gear was Canon. The issue with, at least found on that day, was it was easy to get a stellar photo, as well one right to garbage. Pilot suspicion, was the AF control system, and the constant speed variation of rotors to maintain position. Mine was the vibration control was not so good... I cannot post the stellar ones, but they are stellar in quality. That one is from the non approved ones, and the ratio was down to 10:1 At that time I was not brave enough to put on air, even if the drone allowed, my D810 with the 24 f1.4
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Erik Lund on February 05, 2017, 22:44:15
Ok thanks, most likely some quality is lost in the web file
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 06, 2017, 01:12:53
Pedro, as far as I can see, the picture you posted has not been corrected for perspective. And the right middle side look somewhat blurry. At least, what appears on the webcasted picture.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: PedroS on February 06, 2017, 10:50:06
Right, it’s straight from the camera, and being a Canon one, doesn't correct automatically on my software. As I said can't post the approved ones that have been post processed.
We have in fact tried to stich some photos, with a not so wide lens, but it proved hard because, even that monster drone, was far from being a tripod. It was a great journey with lots of learning. Thermals, wind, dust, all plays a huge part in those low altitude photos. Also, architects do prefer certain angles that are more or less hard to get according to different lenses. Typical aerial photography isn’t so critical towards these factors, thought.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Bjørn J on February 06, 2017, 18:56:10
We have in fact tried to stich some photos, with a not so wide lens, but it proved hard because, even that monster drone, was far from being a tripod.
I have actually done some succesful stitching (panorama) with my humble bumble-bee Phantom 2 and a Sony RX100. Three photos with a slight rotation of the copter between each. I used PTGUI for the stitching.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 06, 2017, 19:11:39
Please, show us 😊
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Bjørn J on February 06, 2017, 20:19:36
Here is Reine in Lofoten as the birds see it. Three photos stitched.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 06, 2017, 21:04:41
Bjørn, beautiful! May be some more technical details ?
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Bjørn J on February 06, 2017, 21:35:02
Bjørn, beautiful! May be some more technical details ?
Sure: Sony RX100 mounted on a Phantom 2, 1/1000 sec, f/4,5, ISO 125. Autofocus on shutter release - which by the way is a remote-controlled mechanical device that physically presses the shutter button on the camera :) Camera is tiltable 90 deg by remote control.
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Erik Lund on February 06, 2017, 22:04:51
That looks like a very capable set up! Very good quality of the final image :)
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 10, 2017, 10:28:03
Bjørn, thanks for the info 😊
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Sören Hese on February 10, 2017, 17:45:48
The Phantom 4 Pro seems to be a big step forward again and from my first tests its creating much better image quality than the P4/Mavic generation. This technical domain is changing with a crazy pace. Shots from a testflight with the P4Pro in Potsdam with res.-cutouts. Kind regards! Sören
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 13, 2017, 00:43:08
(1)Sunset in a rainy winter day.
There is a lot of post-processing in this picture (Mavic Pro, 12Mp, ISO 100, DNG). I think, this is about the maximum you can get out of this sort of picture, taken within these quite challenging conditions (and with the aforementioned drone). Yes, it's not D810 quality, but I don't have the means to fly up such a big body ;) and at least, the picture has the merit to exist... :)
(1) edited version (2) unedited version (as you can notice, the sensor has been blinded by the nearly direct sunlight) (3) dropbox link to DNG file https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjj1xes3vvoy63p/DJI_0037.DNG?dl=0
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Sören Hese on February 16, 2017, 18:21:44
Another remark for the Phantom 4 Pro - it generates a lot of flare when shooting directly into the sun and up from f8. Made some tests recently and the sun star is Samyang like and the flare is pretty much on the heavy side:
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 17, 2017, 00:20:04
Lovely pictures Sören. Why not exploit the inherent weaknesses to make nice pictures ?
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Sören Hese on February 17, 2017, 10:11:27
jep the flare and the sun star rays could be used nicely but the moment you close down the lens you also get these red spots and its hard to avoid these. Not so cool, but it depends on the aperture settings, up to f4 its ok.
So long! Sören
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 19, 2017, 01:05:59
DJI Shop in NYC near Central Park, this afternoon. The bigger pro drones are mainly there to attract the customer; 90% of the sales are Mavics & Phantoms though. Very friendly shop. ;D
https://www.facebook.com/djinycstore/
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: Sören Hese on February 19, 2017, 10:13:08
Thanks MFloyd! Very interesting - looks apple like the shop styling :).
Title: Re: DJI Mavic Pro - from a camera perspective
Post by: MFloyd on February 19, 2017, 12:10:19
Very "Apple Store" like. Same for the (white) packaging 😉