NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Other => Topic started by: elsa hoffmann on November 17, 2016, 13:10:35
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Please please tell me what mail program you use - I am on a mac so would obviously only be interested in a program for Mac.
I have just about had it with Mac Mail.
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Sending and receiving through webmail mostly (Squirrelmail on my domain). Plus gmail as an alternate routing.
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I use the default mail on my MacBook Air. On Windows10, I use Thunderbird which is the most familiar to me.
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thanks Bjorn - okey I added a poll - can be edited it anyones choice is not there
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My biggest gripe is this damn program stacking the mails - I am loosing stuff which I find hard to find. And if ppl dont change the subject line - I have a list as long as my arm of mails all stacked
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I'm fairly sure it's actually called 'Apple Mail'.
Yes, I use it and Yes, I dislike it.
I started using it when I got an iPhone, to take advantage of the integration between phone and computer. That part works well.
It's graphic design, typefaces used, layout is uglier than the original Gmail, which was visually well done.
I soured on Gmail when Gmail changed from their original simple interface to a gimmicky, commercially oriented one in which Google sorted your mail into their categories.
Also, I didn't want to be logged in to Google any more than necessary.
The stacking behavior on Apple Mail is somewhat adjustable, but overall the layout, graphic look, and behavior is at least somewhat annoying.
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I'm fairly sure it's actually called 'Apple Mail'.
Yes, I use it and Yes, I dislike it.
I started using it when I got an iPhone, to take advantage of the integration between phone and computer. That part works well.
It's graphic design, typefaces used, layout is uglier than the original Gmail, which was visually well done.
I soured on Gmail when Gmail changed from their original simple interface to a gimmicky, commercially oriented one in which Google sorted your mail into their categories.
Also, I didn't want to be logged in to Google any more than necessary.
The stacking behavior on Apple Mail is somewhat adjustable, but overall the layout, graphic look, and behavior is at least somewhat annoying.
Well put and I appreciate your comment
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Thunderbird. OS specific email clients can never be the core strength of the supplier.
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Thunderbird. OS specific email clients can never be the core strength of the supplier.
And it shows I think
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And it shows I think
:P
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Not on a mac, but I am still using Eudora as a Pop-mail client, which our IT dept. told me had become incompatible (towards the google mail system we use) 10 years ago.... I only have occasional problems with non-English characters. However Google keeps changing their SSL certificates on a weekly basis these days (need a few clicks to go into menus to accept new certificates), which I suspect is only the first step to try to phase out older email clients so we will see how long it lasts. I believe Thunderbird was at least initially based on Eudora's code, but last time I looked at it (long time ago) I did not like the user interface as well as Eudora. Is Thunderbird still maintained?
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I have no idea about thurderbird being maintained.
I used it - but moced over to Apple Mail to have a more seamless interface - and back ups I understand are better bla bla when migrating over from one Mac to a new mac - and you have to set up everything again. But I am seriously disappointed in what I get out of it.
not being able to see whats in the spam bucket without going onto webmail is also an issue.
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For signing in to Google in the security settings there is a place to accept a supposedly less secure method. It not less secure unless maybe one is using Google to sign into other sites. It's something about a "token" and I don't use Google to sign into anything but Google.
If I remember correctly I could not sign into Gmail with Thunderbird with Google's supposedly better security. One I accepted the "less secure" SSL I'd always used everything was fine.
Dave Hartman
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Thunderbird has been spun off from Mozilla. It is still maintained at this time. I've used it for years and like it.
Dave
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I am thinking of going back on Thunderbird - searching for an email in Apple Mail is a joke.
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Just to confirm - Thunderbird never had the mail in the stacked format - I assume that is still the case?
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Just to confirm - Thunderbird never had the mail in the stacked format - I assume that is still the case?
Depends on what "stacked" means. If it means threaded, then Thunderbird can do it (via View - Sort). If it means sorted otherwise, then Thunderbird can do it as well (via View - Sort).
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I use Thunderbird, I access the multiple email accounts from one program, very convenient, easy to use, reliable
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I said I use the default Apple Mail (thanks, Keith!) on my MacBook Air. But that's simply because I don't use MBA as my main machine. If I would use my MBA more extensively, I would surely use Thunderbird which I have been using on my main Windows machines since the Outlook Express and Windows Mail had been discontinued. Thunderbird doesn't stack the email and is simple to use.
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Depends on what "stacked" means. If it means threaded, then Thunderbird can do it (via View - Sort). If it means sorted otherwise, then Thunderbird can do it as well (via View - Sort).
Apple Mail will put all mails say with the same subject - in a thread - one below the other following down.
Thunderbird used to have every single mail you have coming in, seperately and you dont scroll down the mail to see previous mails from the same person. Thats that I want . ONE at a time
Armando - thats what I recall as well
Thanks Akira - brilliant.
Now to move over from Apple Mail to Thunderbird... :-[ :-[
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Then Thunderbird does what you want Elsa. Actually it suits both camps, the threaded ones and the un-threaded ones ;D
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So it seems.
I am just surprised at how many people use Apple Mail. And so few that dislike it..
Makes me wonder what is wrong with me ;D ;D Dont answer that..
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Got the new accounts running - easy to set up. Will see how things develop and how well it works
btw - is it possible to run Apple mail still while also getting my mails thru Thunderbird? Downloading to both? I assume I should set Apple mail up that mails are not deleted from the server immediately (otherwise it won't download on Thunderbird)
I also will have to keep Apple mail in the background for a loooong while (even if not using it for new mails) as I have thousands of mails there which I have to access from time to time - unless I am able to transfer them over to Thunderbird?
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How I Did It by Dr. Frankenstein
How to turn off Google's more secure logon which messes with Thunderbird and is not more secure.
Google general search page...
*Colored dot in upper right
*My account
Sign in if necessary
*Security checkup - get started
Disable access for less secure apps (BS) is your goal...
*Done
*Looks good
After the above two items you'll arrive at...
*Access for less secure apps (x) Turn off
**Update** up at top of screen.
I hope this makes sense.
Dave
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Thanks David - yes it makes sense :)
What I dont get in Thuderbird is this:
Every mail account seems to have a different set up regarding folders?
If I delete a mail in the very last account - that mail is GONE! no trash folder and if I search - its completely missing. it is not the the Trash folder at the bottom of the list either
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You can set Tbird up to see all the folders in the mail account.
It depends on whether you've set it up as IMAP or POP.
IMAP = the webmail type view(your junk/trash/spam/etc folders. This is where you simply view a remote version of the email on your computer.
POP is where you've downloaded the actual email to your local device(ie. Mac computer).
Same with folders, when you set the account up, it automagically sets up individual directories and sub directories for each account. You can specify at the time of the account where all those messages are to be stored.
(ps. I can't remember if you can reset the location of those folders without affecting the location of any old messages)
I personally prefer to have each individual email account to have it's own directory.
As for backup, I think you can backup some stuff and effectively have a 'full backup' regime but I remember there were some issues with some things not backed up. I haven't used that in years as I use another method.
So I found that the best way to backup Tbird (and Firefox if you use that too) is to use MozBackup. (google it, it's only a small program)
A small independent backup program that completely backs Tbird up into a single (and large) file dated logically.
I use calendars heavily for various things, and have them all synced up with other PC devices and mobile phone.
Problem almost always arises with a new phone(as one example) and my Google calendars usually end up borked to extinction!
I always use MozBackup prior to setting up a new phone because of this, as I can reset the calendars up and tell the phone to use the Tbird calendar first so that it's in sync with Google and then sync with google(even tho it's synced).
Just a note if you use MozBackup for Tbird tho.
When its time to restore a Tbird, you need to have it installed, open it briefly DO NOTHING else, and just close it. Tbird needs to be opened once just to create the default user profile, for MozBackup to have somewhere to backup too.
Once you've restored TBird, its as tho nothing has changed.
As for that last email account. I think it could be the account type or setting to POP.
Have you checked the local account folder for sent and trash for any sent or deleted messages?
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So I found that the best way to backup Tbird (and Firefox if you use that too) is to use MozBackup. (google it, it's only a small program)
I googled it (http://mozbackup.jasnapaka.com/) and it seems windows only. On top of that, it seems not recently maintained.
Since i believe Elsa is on a Mac, this wouldn't help (i checked because i would be interested as well, but also Mac).
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not being able to see whats in the spam bucket without going onto webmail is also an issue.
Try going into View and uncheck Organise by Conversation. Then Sort emails by date or whatever you prefer.
As for the Junk folder, this works fine on my iMac running Sierra. Have you enabled Junk filtering - Preferences>Junk Mail>Enable Junk Mail Filtering>Move to Junk Mailbox.
If this does not work, go into Preferences>Accounts>Junk Mailbox. This should show the Junk Mailbox as an option, or you can create a new Junk folder in Mail and select that as your Junk mailbox.
Another possibility is that as you have a new computer, Mail is learning which emails are likely to be junk and when it has worked this out it will show the Junk mailbox. I have seen suggestions that iCloud junk filtering is different from junk filtering on an individual Mac, but I am not sure if this is correct.
If none of these work, are you still in the period when you can get free support from Apple?
Another line might be to post a question on the Apple Support Forum.
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wow thanks guys. I just walked in from a photo tour and I am so tired I actually dont know what to do with myself. I need to re-group my braincells and start fresh tomorrow morning - trying to make sense of it all. Then I will give feedback. now I need to collapse.
Image - my guest getting right up close to the penguins. Better images to follow when I wake up
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I'm running v45.0 and I'm using the follow add-ons...
Lightning (Calendar) may be a default.
Manually sort folders
StartupMaster
I sort my folders so the most used email accounts are at the top. I prefer POP (post office protocol) as emails are saved on my hard drive. If I accidentally delete an email I have a second chance. I've also been through a bunch of ISPs (internet service providers) and there are a few very old emails I'm keeping for odd reasons.
StartupMaster delays the password prompt until the extensions are loaded. I can't remember what this avoids but I may have had multiple prompts for passwords. It might have something to do with Google and it's "more safe logon that uses something of it's own device rather than good old SSL for security.
Dave
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I googled it (http://mozbackup.jasnapaka.com/) and it seems windows only. On top of that, it seems not recently maintained.
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Ah!
Apologies. I thought it was java for some reason.
The handy thing about MozBackup is that it compresses the backup profile, so it turns 3G of data into about 1Gig.
Alternative backup routine then would be to find the source of the profile directory and save it to somewhere.
To find the location of your Tbird profile data, in Windows, it's easy username/Appdata/Roaming/Thunderbird/Profiles/<then some cryptic naming convention>
Copy that into somewhere else and use entire folder after you've installed Tbird.
I haven't done it that way for years(since about '09??) and it can be a bit convoluted, but not too difficult.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profiles-where-thunderbird-stores-user-data#w_backing-up-a-profile (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profiles-where-thunderbird-stores-user-data#w_backing-up-a-profile)
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Apple Mail will put all mails say with the same subject - in a thread - one below the other following down.
Thunderbird used to have every single mail you have coming in, seperately and you dont scroll down the mail to see previous mails from the same person. Thats that I want . ONE at a time
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Going by that description I think Elsa is asking for a conversation like view for emails.
Like you see on your phone's texting system?
If this is the case, then you want to look for a plugin called Thunderbird Conversations.
You can find it in the Addon's webpage:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/ (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/)
Note that if you already have gigabytes of emails already stored, it can take a while for it to sync them all into this conversations like format.
It is handy when you have multiple email accounts and converse regularly with individuals.
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Apple Mail has Conversations. I think Elsa is saying she does not like it.
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I just downloaded and installed Thunderbird 45.4.0 for both my Windows 7 and MAC El Capitan computers. I've been using Thunderbird with Windows for years. I was running v3.1.2 from Aug. 2010 (or perhaps I downloaded an old version then. I had no problems running the old version. I setup a new Windows box in Nov. 2014 with v31.2.0.
Today is probably the first time I've installed Thunderbird on a MAC. I did not setup the MAC as yet. I'm hoping I can sync it to my Windows 7 computer. Not tonight as I'm going to bed.
On updating T-bird on the my Windows 7 computer I got the following message...
Why we need donations
You might already know that Thunderbird improvements are no longer paid for by Mozilla. Fortunately there is an active community keeping it running and developing it further. But to survive long term, the project needs funding.
Thunderbird is currently transitioning to an independent organization. Being independent, we can shape our own fate, but there is significant infrastructure that must be maintained to deliver the application to our tens of millions of users. For Thunderbird to survive and continue to evolve, we need your support and ask for your donation today. All the money donated will go directly to funding Thunderbird development and infrastructure.
Hope this helps,
Dave Hartman
Above I said Thunderbird has been spun off. Close but no cigar: it's in transition.
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Apple Mail has Conversations. I think Elsa is saying she does not like it.
That can be good but some people open an old email, delete the content, write a new one and don't change the subject so several conversions can appear as one making it difficult to find the email one is looking for. I ignore or don't use conversations.
Dave
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That can be good but some people open an old email, delete the content, write a new one and don't change the subject so several conversions can appear as one making it difficult to find the email one is looking for. I ignore or don't use conversations.
Dave
you summed it up/explained it better than I could. I cant not STAND that string type mails - I loose mails. But I only loose the ones I am looking for!
I do change subject lines to stop the chains - but my clients don't. And when you have 30 emails on one topic its a nightmare. On top of that they dont delete the old mail and include that in their new message to me - several times - so it repeats and rolls over to start all over again. I cant keep up.
I absolutely agree with SAM that if I can stay with Apple Mail - I should - if I can get it working they way I want it to work. Migrating to another program is not going to be easy. I never should have left Thunderbird - but I did at the time (some years back) as I seem to recall a back up problem and a transfer problem when I got a new laptop. Thought if I stick with Apple stuff - it would be more seamless ::)
Sam suggested I set up for "classic layout" I have set it up as such now and will see if I can operate better.
Since so many of you are on Apple mail - and so few hate it - it means that it cant be that bad! (or else you are all stuck like me)
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I've installed Thunderbird 45.4.0 but I can't find where Thunderbird hides my profile in OS X 10.11.6. I had hoped to copy my mail folder complete from Win7. I cannot finding it where the Web says it should be.
Dave
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I've used/use Microsoft Outlook for mail on all my MacBooks. It is a very sensible mail app.
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you summed it up/explained it better than I could. I cant not STAND that string type mails - I loose mails. But I only loose the ones I am looking for!
I do change subject lines to stop the chains - but my clients don't. And when you have 30 emails on one topic its a nightmare. On top of that they dont delete the old mail and include that in their new message to me - several times - so it repeats and rolls over to start all over again. I cant keep up.
I absolutely agree with SAM that if I can stay with Apple Mail - I should - if I can get it working they way I want it to work. Migrating to another program is not going to be easy. I never should have left Thunderbird - but I did at the time (some years back) as I seem to recall a back up problem and a transfer problem when I got a new laptop. Thought if I stick with Apple stuff - it would be more seamless ::)
Sam suggested I set up for "classic layout" I have set it up as such now and will see if I can operate better.
Since so many of you are on Apple mail - and so few hate it - it means that it cant be that bad! (or else you are all stuck like me)
Did unchecking Organise by Conversation help?
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Did unchecking Organise by Conversation help?
Exactly, and combine it with the classic look and Mail is pretty much like Outlook I use at work.
So:
- Mail>Preferences>Viewing>check Use classic layout
- View>uncheck Organize by Conversation
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Preferences > Viewing > Classic look -- This is the key for me.
With this, I'm pretty happy with Apple Mail.
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Once you know the trick moving a Thunderbird profile and it's mail from Windows to a MAC is quite easy. You create a new profile on the new computer. Quit Thunderbird on both computers. Delete the new profile and copy the old one in its place on the new computer. MAC to MAC and WIN to WIN is the same. There is an easy way to find your profile in Thunderbird these days. I'll add to this post laterr in case anyone is interested.
Dave Hartman
Edit (additional info): The way to find where one's profile is located is to use Help> Troubleshooting Information>. In the tab there is a place to find the location in Finder or Windows Explorer. For Finder it will help greatly if the full path of the file or folder is shown at the bottom of the Finder window. Windows explorer shows this in the toolbar at the top.
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It seems I am stuck with Mail - so I have to learn to manage it better.
I will from now on export every damn important mail (and there are plenty) as PDF's to my specific folders (and there are plenty of those too)
Just have to organise my workflow better and get on with it.
What I do find frustrating - when I search for a specific mail - I can't find it - yet it's there - it's just not picked up with the search. If I srearch ALL - it's not picked up - yet when I search "SENT" - it's there. Searching manually thru hundreds of mails is not a viable option.
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How would you like 72,000+ emails [to] search? :P
Not mine but a friend who's online and on her computer most frequently.
Dave who is going blind from typing at this cell phone. :)
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How would you like 72,000+ emails search? :P
Not mine but a friend who's online and on her computer most frequently.
Dave who is going blind from typing at this cell phone. :)
Dave I am not far away from that... :-[
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It sounds like you need a full time filling clerk.
Dave who needs a full time proofreader.
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It sounds like you need a full time filling clerk.
Dave who needs a full time proofreader.
I need a lot of things....
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It seems I am stuck with Mail - so I have to learn to manage it better.
I will from now on export every damn important mail (and there are plenty) as PDF's to my specific folders (and there are plenty of those too)
Just have to organise my workflow better and get on with it.
What I do find frustrating - when I search for a specific mail - I can't find it - yet it's there - it's just not picked up with the search. If I srearch ALL - it's not picked up - yet when I search "SENT" - it's there. Searching manually thru hundreds of mails is not a viable option.
You can easily file emails in individual Mailboxes (i.e. subfolders) within Mail. I do that all the time. No need to use pdfs (which are not easily searchable). Hover the pointer over Mailboxes at the top of the sidebar, press "+" and create new Mailboxes wherever you like within the Mail structure. Then just drag and drop emails to file them in the Mailbox or Mailboxes you want to use for the relevant topic.
I think Mail can do everything you want, based on your comments here.
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You can easily file emails in individual Mailboxes (i.e. subfolders) within Mail. I do that all the time. No need to use pdfs (which are not easily searchable). Hover the pointer over Mailboxes at the top of the sidebar, press "+" and create new Mailboxes wherever you like within the Mail structure. Then just drag and drop emails to file them in the Mailbox or Mailboxes you want to use for the relevant topic.
I think Mail can do everything you want, based on your comments here.
Anthony - I am already using file folders. For me the PDF's do work - I just have to Do it. time consuming but at least I know where to find them then
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For my next trick...
For my next trick I tried importing all of my Thunderbird email into Apple Mail running on El Capitan 10.11.6. It worked but the import is really, really lame. It imported multiple email addresses with multiple folders into just two folders in Apple Mail. This would be totally useless to me. I'd spend the next decade sorting the mail into the appropriate folders as it was in Thunderbird.
I tried briefly to import those two huge folders into another profile in Thunderbird and got some error message. The import didn't happen. I don't think Thunderbird recognized a proper Apple Mail account in the imported mail.
I'll continue to experiment with Apple Mail but I don't think I'm at all likely to use it in the future.
Dave Hartman
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My assessment so far is NOT to Apple Mail.
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David you are a die hard ;D ;D MUCH more energy that I have. I don't particularly like the Thunderbird layout - not as much as I like Apple Mail. And I have issues getting it set up to my liking. Feels like I will spend 12 months getting that sorted. Not worth it.
Anthony - you are right - Mail does almost everything I want. Almost. I use the mailboxes extensively and like them a lot. I also have folders for some subjects - which I also use a LOT. Conversations I hate, and search fails me - obviously that might be my error - I just don't know what I am doing wrong to loose mails or not being able to find them even if they are there.
I do legal work as well - so I have say 50 clients. Each with their own folders in documents. I correspond with them. So what I now do - every time I have a (worth saving) email - I export that mail as a PDF into that clients folder. Takes a few seconds extra every time - but it is do-able. I do that from time to time anyway - now I just have to be diligent and do it more consistently. Actually will make it a LOT easier finding some of the mails.
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I've installed Thunderbird 45.4.0 but I can't find where Thunderbird hides my profile in OS X 10.11.6. I had hoped to copy my mail folder complete from Win7. I cannot finding it where the Web says it should be.
Dave
If you have or haven't been successful with this:
In Tbird go to Help->Troubleshootung Information look for the tab that indicated Profile Folder and click the button to "Show Folder". Note that this doesn't show you a link to where the folder is located, it just opens the folder in whatever is your default file explorer program(ie. in Win10 Windows Explorer).
But I'd recommend that if you want to sync or move Tbird profiles between OSes .. then you're better off using the import/export tool.
Tools-> ImportExportTools-> Export profile(from Windows) .. to somewhere that is shareable between both OSes.
What it does is to copy that profile's entire folder contents to a location of your choosing and names it with your profiles orginal name plus the date and time it was exported .. it'll make sense once Thunderbird recovers from creating it(ir will become unresponsive and appear to throw an errors, but should be ok!) then navigate to the path you set the profile backup and you should see your backed up profile folder.
hope that works.
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I'm currently using Newton by Cloudmagic. I like it but they changed it to be a subscription style and too expensive I think. I bought it before the switch, so I got a 1 year subscription. I'll be switching to something else when that runs out. I've heard good things about Airmail. On my iPhone I use Spark.
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arthurking83,
Thanks!
I finally found the profile using Help> Troubleshooting information>. The problem was out of date articles that didn't contain this simple source. These articles often do not give the date written or the version of Thunderbird they apply to or the OS.
Dave
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Spark is now available for MacOS as well: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id1176895641?mt=12
I might very well switch to it.