NikonGear'23
Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: richardHaw on October 20, 2016, 04:10:45
-
Just overhauled this thing. People claim that this lens was difficult to manufacture back in it's day and now I see why :o :o :o it is indeed more complicated than your standard Nikkor of the same vintage.
the lens was restored back to great working condition and the glass is now pristine except for the rear element where some haze stayed. for some reasons, some junk Nikkors of the same vintage exhibit this. the 50 1.4 and the 300mm f4.5 that i worked on has it. must be the coating getting eaten by fungus or finger oil ::)
i was told that this thing flares badly and it did but it complimented the image instead of taking something away from it. the close focus was also very good.
sharpness is amazing wide-open and contrast is very good. at f/2.8 you do not see much fringing and mechanical vignetting is not really obvious, in fact I do not see much of it when I shot our white wall. maybe the falloff is smooth. I am really liking this lens a lot and i can see why the formula stuck till the late 70s just before the AF version.
-
The Nikkor-O 35/2 indeed was an endearing and enjoyable lens. I still use my samples on occasion. Image flare could be a challenge though.
-
I find the 35/2.0 AI makes an excellent manual focus normal lens for DX. I owned the single coated Nikkor-O version before. I would guess the main difference would be shooting against the sun.
Dave Hartman
-
close focus is VERY good :o :o :o bokeh i feel is not so smooth but has potential
this is how much i can make it flare. ::)
-
Sunstars look good as expected :o :o :o
sharp pik of the lady. again, bokeh not so good.
this lens has big potential for night use ::)
-
most of my shots that I have uploaded here are wide open, except for the sunstars :o :o :o
VERY sharp wide-open. just take a look at the gothic F (image center,cropped).
great performance despite being picked up from the junk box
-
This is the only 35 mm lens I own. I really like this lens with my Df. Nice contrast and warm, saturated colors are the qualities of this lens. Sharp enough wide open, pin sharp down to f16, but a bad propensity to flair when shooting into the sun. Nice for close ups as well :)
-
Just got one for a steal and love it! I am expecting my AF-S 35mm/1.4 to stay home more often...
-
I used the AIS 35/2 some years ago, which has the same (or at least very similar) optical design as the original Nikkor-O 35/2.
I found it to be very sharp. Nice colour rendition similar to other Nikkors of the same vintage. Mild barrel distortion. Never noticed flare but I rarely point lenses into the sun except at sunset. Bokeh was not so good as Ric mentioned.
I was later seduced by the AIS 35/1.4 so sold it. I sometimes also use my AI 35/2.8 (6 element version) which is a nice little lens. If you need a 35mm lens with no barrel distortion, this is the one to get.
Actually, I rarely use the 35mm focal length, I tend to shoot with 50 or 55mm as general lens, and add a 28mm or wider, skipping 35mm. However on a recent trip I decided to give my 35/1.4 a spin and quite enjoyed it.
-
Does anyone (Bjorn?) have experience with performance of the early 7/5 or 7/6 designs compared to the 6/6 version (K, Ai) Roland has mentioned?
The early 7/5 is taller and less compact than the later K or Ai lenses.
-
What lens are you referring to? The Nikkor 35/2 was as I recall an 8/6 design, whilst the 35/2.8 initially had 7/5. The latter was a rather poor performer compared the later versions.
-
Thanks Bjørn, this was a typo on my side for the Nikkor-O K or Ai type. I was indeed referring to the very early 3.5cm 7/5 designs.
-
I have compared the early Nikkor-S and the K version of the 35/2.8, and the K is very clearly the superior one.
-
Same as my experience. The early lens distorts most noticeably; the K (well the early Ai as well) has very little or no distortion. And it is sharper.
I have compared the early Nikkor-S and the K version of the 35/2.8, and the K is very clearly the superior one.
-
haven't followed the discussion for some time since the site was down, good thing that it's back :o :o :o
here it is, shot directly at the sun @ f/5.6 i think.
the close focusing ability of this lens is amazing. it can double as a semi macro lens if you need one.
at night, the fast f/2 can be very useful. but i am eyeing for the f/1.4 ::)
DOF can be too thin at times for shooting street photography but whatever...
-
Richard is that the O version?
The rendering is beautiful and relaxed! Very nice
The 1.4 Ai and Ais is very different in all aspects!
-
Hi Erik,
how would you describe the difference? I am not looking for perfect sharpness but a nice bokeh and a small 35mm Nikkor is missed.... ;)
Harald
-
I just prefer the look and feel of the shots Richard posted,,, so we will know when he confirms what lens was used ;)
-
The bokeh of the images Rick posted here is pretty much well acceptable to me. I've seen far harsher bokeh of digital-era wideangles.
-
The Nikko0r-O 35/2 had quite nice bokeh as far wideangles are concerned.
I had to dig into the old film archive to find pictures that were captured with the first version of the 35/2, ie. the lens with a golden shimmering front element (during the last decades I only used the newer multi-coated version).
Nikon F2, 35/2 Nikkor-O, almost wide open. A cold National Day, as usual, and low light combined with slow Kodachrome necessitated opening the lens all the way.
That lens has been kept as a fond memory and not being altered in any way. Perhaps time to dig it out and modify it for the digital cameras?
-
Yes for sure it looks like it!
-
I took a quick snap with the Nikkor-O wide open to show the characteristics of the lens. Unedited export from Lr with the Portrait profile. Taken with the Df.
-
I certainly must retrieve the old 35/2 'O' snd have it modernised for the Df ... Børge: Your image shows well the delicate rendition that made the old 35 so endearing.
-
Thanks Børge! Great ;)
-
I like the way these old lenses render the images. Are there other old Nikkors that show the same characteristics or use the same optical formulas? I reckon Bjørn might have some idea :)
-
Hi,
i Love my 50mm f2. Try it. It is cheap and good!
Harald
-
Just tried my copy of the old NIKKOR-O 35 f2.0, did not make a picture for publication, but the background get lovely creamy, and the person I tok a picture of was sharp with details. Used aD500 @ ISO 3200 ::)
Must use it more for some outdoor use as well :)
-
Hi,
i Love my 50mm f2. Try it. It is cheap and good!
Harald
That has never been a drawback :)
-
I still use my 35mm f/2 pre-AI O.C lens on my Df... Quite efficient when I'm in a 35mm mood and not my usual 50mm's one ::)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/3/2920/14341384417_1b1c68cdcd_c.jpg)
-
Or at f/2 in a Café at night with the D200... :o
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5504/14144289026_87d3b17289_b.jpg)
-
Great examples.
I am wondering if the multi-coated version does have an effect on the bokeh or not. The rendering looks the same. Here two examples with the K-version Ai'd (from 1975) and wide open.
-
Great examples.
I am wondering if the multi-coated version does have an effect on the bokeh or not. The rendering looks the same. Here two examples with the K-version Ai'd (from 1975) and wide open.
Coatings will affect transmission, contrast, resistance to flare and colour rendition. Bokeh - the rendering of foreground and background out of focus objects - is determined by the optical corrections of the lens itself, and to a lesser extent the mechanical design, not the coatings:
- smoothness or hardness/outlining of OOF objects is mainly due to correction of spherical aberrations
- spherochromatism (colored bokeh) is due to colour correction
- shape of OOF highlights is due to mechanical vignetting and shape of aperture blades
-
Thanks for the clarification, Roland. So the last four images are less typical for the Nikkor-O 35/2 which implies non-multi-coating.
-
If they are shot with another lens that the O version they are different,,,
-
sorry for the very late reply. super busy at the studio now and organising the foundations of a new studio elsewhere in the world :o :o :o
yes, my pictures were taken with the moldy Nikkor-O 35mm f/2 with scheideritis. ::)
it does look lovely. it is not the sharpest lens but it is still very sharp wide open. one of the reasons why it looks so nice is the sharpness falloff is even unlike some other lenses that has an abrupt sharpness/out of focus falloff like a bell curve. no tests were done but at least this is how I notice it. this is something many modern lenses fail to do these days in the lust for sharpness and charts
-
Had to go out in the autumn sunset to test my copy of the NIKKOR-O 35mm f2.
My impression is that it is better for portrait work than landscape, at least for my short outing.
My ginkgo tree is changing to the yellow autumn colour and my neighbors was sitting enjoying the sight.
-
it's going to be another 3-4 wks before the leaves turn yellow here :o :o :o
interesting observation. I think that this lens performs exceptional in the near range. not sure about the other end.
-
Finally located my old copy of the Nikkor-O 35 mm f/2, having a golden shimmering front element without any multicoating. I do have newer versions with multicoating, but always felt they didn't stack up well with the old lens thus reserved them for IR false-colour use instead.
A few preliminary shots using the Df indicated my memories about this lens were pretty accurate. It is very sharp on the wider stops and its bokeh is butter smooth as far as wide angles go, making the transition from focused into out of focus areas of the frame exemplary smooth and effortless. In fact it shares in that respect much of the 'drawing' exhibited by the much younger AFS 35/1.4 G.
Image contrast is moderate and colours are accordingly a little on the muted side, which actually adds to the amiable qualities of this old lens.
Must have the lens AI-modified and CPU-enabled - a project for next time I meet Erik presumably. Thanks to Rick Haw for drawing my attention to this old timer, I had almost forgot all about it.
-
Yes a big thanks to Rick Haw also from me as the 35mm works as a 50mm replacement on my D500.
My 35AF suffers from oily aperture blades :(
The returnere to MF is nice for at change ;)
-
Image contrast is moderate and colours are accordingly a little on the muted side, which actually adds to the amiable qualities of this old lens.
this feels like Kodachrome :o :o :o
-
there are times when f/2 is not enough :o :o :o
really liking this lens. very very handy!
it is a great balance between the f/1.4 and the f/2.8 versions in terms of size and use.
-
I have the "C" version, here are 2 shots wide open.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8853/18456935712_0874b74c76_o.jpg)
Nikkor-Q.C. 35mm f/2 non-AI @f/2 (https://flic.kr/p/u7YBXw) by Arend (https://www.flickr.com/photos/vermazeren/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8873/17840507643_8990c918f0_o.jpg)
Nikkor-Q-C. 35mm f/2 Pre-AI @f/2 (https://flic.kr/p/tbvgnn) by Arend (https://www.flickr.com/photos/vermazeren/), on Flickr
-
Made some shots with the sun in the frame, that gives massive flare
-
Flare resistance never was a strong point of the 35/2.
Yesterday I did an informal shoot-out between the 35/2 Nikkor-O and the 'K' 35/2.8 Nikkor. The latter has a remarkable even performance almost all across its aperture range and set wide open, results are very acceptable. The 35/2 is troubled with some corner fall-off wide open (f/2) and contrast is on the moderate side, yet keeps high central sharpness. By stopping it down a little, illumination becomes much more even, contrast picks up, and the frame is sharp corner to corner. It seems wise to stop at f/5.6 with the fast f/2 lens unless you need some extra depth of field. The slower f/2.8 Nikkor delivers until f/11 or so.
-
Ironically, my 35/f2 seems to be the same variant as my 50/1.4. It's a Non-Ai version with a rubber focus ring. I Ai'd it myself, also. It's all part of my "Original, Black Nikon F" bag, with a factory Ai'd 85/1.8 and an untouched, pristine 200/f4. (Whoops.... I forgot about the 24/2.8.)
These threads are persuading me to just let go. Use my D700 like my old FM, F & Nikkormats, & shoot like I did 20 years ago & not be so boxed in by the worry of sensor dirt & the meanderings of "handle with care," "digital worry nonsense."
-
Flare resistance never was a strong point of the 35/2.
This the result, had to change the exposure -2.0 as it seems the D500 lightmeter was fooled by the strong side light.
The flare is still clearly visible.
I actually like to use this old-timer on the brand new D500 :)
-
Flare like that can usually be controlled just by using your hand to cut off the troublesome light rays.
-
Flare like that can usually be controlled just by using your hand to cut off the troublesome light rays.
Yes, but I wanted to see how bad it was. The file direct out-of-camera was even worse as the meter did an over exposure.
-
If you *really* want to see horrendous flare, just shoot the same scene in IR ...
-
the flare problem persisted through the AF-D version? :o :o :o
-
B&W or Color?
Shot with Nikkor-O 35mm f/2.
I try to keep this lens out of the sun as well.
Or like Bjørn stated your hand, or I use my Lastolite portable gray card it comes in handy.
-
Take your pick.
I try to keep this lens out of the sun..
color :o :o :o
-
color :o :o :o
Me to but Like the drama as well!! ;)
-
Colour :)
-
You wouldn't know it but this is what is about 200 yards behind this metal building.. It is truly a sight to see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Grande_Gorge
-
Nice colour shot indeed! But works I B&W also naturally - What a location, would love to go there and shoot away!
-
In this particular case, I won't hesitate to pick the color version. The stunning red accent is hard to avoid.
-
Peter, are these taken with the Nikkor 35/2 O?
-
Peter, are these taken with the Nikkor 35/2 O?
Exif says 28mm. The lens info is mis-set?
-
I'm asking because these pictures were posted in another thread and no reference to the 35/2 O was seen there.
A thread dedicated to a given lens should be kept clean of other focal lengths, however successful those images might be. Only exeception would be shoot-outs comparing different lenses, though.
-
Peter, are these taken with the Nikkor 35/2 O?
Bjørn,
Yes they are sorry I made the correction.
I was using a Sigma Mini Wide II 28mm before hand and didn't reset the Non CPU lens Data to the 35mm f2 setting.
The lens size does not show up on Capture NX-D only sequence number, aperture and shutter speed.
My Bad. ::)
Pete
-
One out of many reasons we put CPUs in the old lenses ...
Just retrieved my old 35/2 O from its long hiding place so haven't modified it yet. A job for Erik next time I meet him as it also needs to be properly AI-modified and he does a marvellous job with such stuff.
-
One out of many reasons we put CPUs in the old lenses ...
Just retrieved my old 35/2 O from its long hiding place so haven't modified it yet. A job for Erik next time I meet him as it also needs to be properly AI-modified and he does a marvelous job with such stuff.
I agree, I am looking for another 35 f2 to do CPU chip.
Mine works well but has some glass issues minor as it is and I personally don't see any effect to my images I feel if I am going to spend the time and money for a chip it should be done on a clean lens.
Thanks for the catch Bjorn.
Pete
-
just bought an HN-3 for my 35mm f/1.4 Ai-S. it works nicely with the Nikkor-O 35mm f/2 :o :o :o
for general street photography, i actually prefer the Nikkor-O 35mm f/2 over the 35mm f/1.4 Ai-S because of the longer throw and smaller size.
-
The AI 35/1.4 has a longer focus throw - 180° vs 105°
But it only has 7 aperture blades compared to 9 for the AIS (not rounded though)
-
The AI 35/1.4 has a longer focus throw - 180° vs 105°
But it only has 7 aperture blades compared to 9 for the AIS (not rounded though)
unfortunately, not in the market for that at the moment. the wallet is still crying from last weekend's purchase (of the 35mm f/1.4 Ai-S) ::)
the Nikkor-O 35mm f/2 is very versatile. it is quickly replacing the 35mm f/2.8 lenses that I have for everyday carry. however, the f/2.8s are smaller and a lot more discreet :o :o :o
the only reason for me to have the f/2 is to shoot at f/2.
-
I've never shot a 35/2.8 but I've shot the 35/2.0 Nikkor-O and 35/2.0 AI. I prefer to shot the 35/2.0 at f/2.8 to f/5.6.
I probably chose the f/2.0 for a bit faster lens since I started two Nikon systems with a 55/3.5 Micro. The 35/2.0 helped with speed as a wide normal to cover for a slow normal.
Dave
Someday I'd like to pickup a 105/2.5 Nikkor-P and 35/2.0 Nikkor-O for old time sake. I'd also like a 20/3.5 Nikkor-UD. Is it OK to own four 20mm lenses?
-
Dave, you have my special permission! I have four plus a 21mm. The 20mm/3.5 UD is beautifully made and is a good lens. Slightly heavy.
********************************
My 35mm f/2.0 is an AIS with more modern coatings, so I suspect that its character and flare properties are different to the Nikkor-O 35mm f/2. It does however have an 8E/6G lens element setup.
.........................................................................
Is it OK to own four 20mm lenses?
-
As I recall the 20/3.5 UD filled the hand nicely and balanced well on the F or F2. It displayed ghost but wasn't bad concerning flare. Also I think the distortion was rather tame. It was the widest lens I own with my first Nikon system. Mine came with a 72mm metal screw in lens cap.
-
CPU modification to the rescue! Can't live without it :)
-
As I recall the 20/3.5 UD filled the hand nicely and balanced well on the F or F2. It displayed ghost but wasn't bad concerning flare. Also I think the distortion was rather tame. It was the widest lens I own with my first Nikon system. Mine came with a 72mm metal screw in lens cap.
It's off topic here, but I regard the UD as the best (as in general terms) manual 20mm Nikkor. Crisp and detailed images on the D800E with very little distortion.
-
currently writing the teardown for this, by request :o :o :o
-
https://richardhaw.com/2016/11/05/repair-nikkor-o-35mm-f2/
OK, by special request of some of our friends here :o :o :o
-
Very nice work.
-
Very nice work.
Thanks, Bent! :o :o :o
Glad you liked it.
by the way, i mentioned in the article that I have seen 3 lenses with the same problem as mine in the junk shops. looks like it is a common ailment for this lens. probably it's weakness.
-
Most likely the very high humidity in Japan.
-
Most likely the very high humidity in Japan.
probably. as glass contract and retract, the cement would crack. :o :o :o
if i have seen 2-3 samples that have a similar problem, i will assume that that is common for that lens. for example, the original 300mm f/4.5 lens almost always have weird marks on the rear element when you see them in junk shops. I have seen 4 of them that have it including mine.
-
Well you do also see a huge amount of lenses over there, here in most countries in Europe we don't have piles of lenses in the shops, very few camera shops have old lenses in stock,,, Nothing like B&H, Adorama or KEH here,,,
-
Early multicoated 35/2 lenses (C and K types) seem prone to separation between the cemented elements. I have a Nikkor-O.C with separation - a nice shimmering ring around one of the inner elements. I used to have two K 35/2 (with consecutive serial numbers - purely by chance!) and both had separation. One had a brighter reflection more or less on one half of an inner element, the other appeared to be completely separated with a fully circular reflection in the same place. I have not seen separation like this on other lenses so it seems be be quite rare.
-
Could it be that the 35/2 was one of the last holdouts in the use of the old botanically-derived cements between elements? Did they switch to the newer, longer-lasting synthetic cements in the later Ai/AiS versions? Is there any way to know?
-
Yes, if you put the lens elements in hot water the Canada Balsam will let go and the two elements a free of each other again, not so easy done if [UV] cured Epoxy was used :o
-
Some people here fix that by heating the doublet in top of space heater or hair dryer :o :o :o success rate seems to be high. An Indonesian guy messaged me and I gave him that advise and it worked. It seems to work best when the separation happened at the edges and looks lkke a rainbow. Try it! Just heat the doublet with a hair dryer for about 5-10minutes on low heat continuously. As soon as the rainbow went away stop!
-
Nice. :)
Harald
-
Nice. :)
Harald
OMG! i forgot all about your grease! :o :o :o
-
To have a uniform heating of the lens elements I strongly suggest not to use a hair dryer, instead immerse in room temperature water and heat it up slowly until separation then clean while in the water.
-
Hi Richard,
no problem. ;) I can wait. I will get my sample (But a K-Version) this week.
Erik, should he use ab bag for the lens? ;)
Harald
-
You disassemble the lens first,,, :o
-
Yes, if you put the lens elements in hot water the Canada Balsam will let go and the two elements a free of each other again, not so easy done if [UV] cured Epoxy was used :o
how would you separate the modern ones? acetone?
there's this guy, who fixed his modern canon AF lens' rear elements by heating it in hot water despite me telling him NOT to and use a blow dryer! :o :o :o
so far it got fixed and he is happy. i have no idea what canon uses on their lenses but this was what happened.
-
Heat also makes the Epoxy soft and gum like,,,
-
So the question that hasn't been asked is.
What do you do to glue the elements back together? ???
-
As I stated priviusly; Epoxy, there is a Glass version two component that is very neutral or UV cured Epoxy