NikonGear'23

Gear Talk => Lens Talk => Topic started by: Erik Lund on October 02, 2016, 20:43:08

Title: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on October 02, 2016, 20:43:08
Here is a comparison between Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E and Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS on Nikon D810.

I borrowed the very nice new 105 from Bjørn today, Thanks ;) and I had a lot of fun in the forest close to Oslo where we currently are hanging out.

I tried to keep the images as close to each other as possible, but without using a tripod, for some images the same vantage point was used for others it was changed slightly,,,

For all images; First the 85 then the 105,,, all samples at f/1.4.

First shot is straight up - So no chance to make them similar...

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5447/29987030441_2aa63649c3_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MFRnqe)_EGL6594 (https://flic.kr/p/MFRnqe) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8187/29987067291_48e4316b37_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MFRynz)_EGL6596 (https://flic.kr/p/MFRynz) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8398/29987020371_4533591576_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MFRjqB)_EGL6602 (https://flic.kr/p/MFRjqB) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5226/29442736614_6e53b9c14d_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LRKHPU)_EGL6603 (https://flic.kr/p/LRKHPU) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8118/29956709602_c1d4943983_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MDaY69)_EGL6609 (https://flic.kr/p/MDaY69) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

And here the 105mm with the extension tube

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8394/29987066871_6daf9bfdb6_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MFRyfk)_EGL6615 (https://flic.kr/p/MFRyfk) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5567/30070426625_1125937034_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MPdNct)_EGL6634 (https://flic.kr/p/MPdNct) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8268/30036560666_d15c8e5d16_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MLee2C)_EGL6635 (https://flic.kr/p/MLee2C) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5003/29443459663_98e647deb0_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LRPqLg)_EGL6639 (https://flic.kr/p/LRPqLg) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8128/29442735764_8ea8a05345_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LRKHzf)_EGL6645 (https://flic.kr/p/LRKHzf) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5141/30070425885_3b82f53baa_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MPdMYH)_EGL6650 (https://flic.kr/p/MPdMYH) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5732/29442735324_3462c498ea_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LRKHrE)_EGL6648 (https://flic.kr/p/LRKHrE) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8278/29776362910_e86fc91b20_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MneDiq)_EGL6680 (https://flic.kr/p/MneDiq) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8538/29442752234_da8815f28b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LRKNtd)_EGL6676 (https://flic.kr/p/LRKNtd) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

Conclusion; They are very similar, the Blur circles are a fair bit larger for the 105 and slightly less CA overall, what amazed me the most was that the behavior of out of focus highlights aberrations where almost identical,,, Obviously their design parameters must be very close,,,
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on October 02, 2016, 21:01:01
Very interesting, thanks for the heads-up. Apparently Nikon engineering have spent some serious time and efforts in the design process of these lenses.

In the days ahead, whilst Erik and I are travelling inland Norway, there will be a lot of opportunities to compare these, and other lenses.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: BW on October 02, 2016, 21:10:55
I reckon the results of the tour will be presented on this website? Looking forward to see the creativity the two of you can wrestle out your gear :)
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on October 02, 2016, 21:12:08
We're leaving tomorrow morning heading northwards into the central mountain range. Will open a thread in the travel diary section later.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: JohnBrew on October 03, 2016, 02:21:27
Thanks, Erik. I must say they are mostly similar - the 105 is merely closer, naturally. I'm sure you will show us more as you continue to test. Not so sure at this juncture that there is any point in testing it for my purposes.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: John Geerts on October 03, 2016, 10:02:56
Thanks for this useful comparison, Erik. They look indeed quit similar.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: chris dees on October 03, 2016, 14:43:50
Have a nice trip. :)
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Frank Fremerey on October 03, 2016, 17:28:52
After checking these nice examples for the second time, I feel the 105E has a tad more contrast, slightly better detail rendering and this special 3D look some of the classy lenses feature plus a slightly cooler cooler rendition (blueish)

All I have seen so far from this lens is super mouthwatering.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: beryllium10 on October 04, 2016, 05:20:24
I have heard that Jakov is not going to buy this lens.

But seriously ... the wooden planks photo is a very clever test image and shows a lot of characteristics of the two lenses.  The two do look very similar, but the 105 mm seems to have slightly higher central contrast, smoother rendition of the out-of-focus areas and a slightly more graceful transition from sharply focused to out-of-focus areas.  I have an 85 mm f/1.8 AF-D which I like a lot, but it would not handle that transition from focused to out-of-focus nearly so nicely.  I will wait patiently 5-6 years for the next-generation lens to come along, when some of these 105s will begin to appear on the used market ...

Cheers,    John
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: PeterN on October 04, 2016, 10:21:10
Thank you for sharing this Erik. This works better for me than charts.
The thing that strikes me most is the smoother rendering of the OOF areas, which contributes to the 3D effect of the lens (the busy scene in photos 6639 and 6645 are particularly showing this). The 85 is a fabulous lens but if I would have to pick one, I would opt for the 105, leaving price, size and weight differences aside.
I am looking forward to your observations and assessment.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Tristin on October 04, 2016, 18:09:42
John, with the amount of time that has passed between the various 105mm lenses you will likely be waiting a good chunk longer than 5 years.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on October 04, 2016, 18:17:56
20-25 years is more like it.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: longzoom on October 04, 2016, 23:22:02
After checking these nice examples for the second time, I feel the 105E has a tad more contrast, slightly better detail rendering and this special 3D look some of the classy lenses feature plus a slightly cooler cooler rendition (blueish)

All I have seen so far from this lens is super mouthwatering.
.  Second to this.  Thanks God Nikon did not follow their 58 optical formula for the 105 new lens. I'll wait a little bit more, to see what Sigma has already done to their new 85mm. THX!  LZ
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: beryllium10 on October 05, 2016, 06:45:04
Tristin, Ilkka - likely so, but it looks like it will be worth the wait ...  Meanwhile, prices on the 105DC (both second-hand and remaining inventory) are dropping steeply.  Fortunately I'm not tempted.  Honestly.

John
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on October 05, 2016, 21:58:48
Some nice rendering of the forest floor.

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5748/29509916994_f38ae6b14d_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LXG3dj)_EGL6998 (https://flic.kr/p/LXG3dj) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on October 05, 2016, 22:03:31
Albino Pine,,,

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5822/29842802700_d0c2636879_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Mt7ax3)_EGL6979 (https://flic.kr/p/Mt7ax3) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

Interesting rendering of the pale branch lower left,,, circle after circle - Interesting.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on October 05, 2016, 22:11:55
Amazing slim slice of depth of sharpness is cut out in this dry tree,,,

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8270/30054115591_02ba2e707e_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MMMcuK)_EGL7034 (https://flic.kr/p/MMMcuK) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr

Outstanding performance - I have done almost no processing on this one,, they just come out like this,,, a very nice tool in the 1.4 G line of lenses!
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: longzoom on October 05, 2016, 22:46:25
Thanks a lot, Erik, for your efforts for all of us! I definitely know now what should I wait from that new toy! Thanks again! LZ
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on November 02, 2016, 09:33:14
So Roger at LensRentals has now done some measurements and comparisons also to the 85mm AFS 1.4,,, He likes the new 105 AFS 1.4

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/nikon-105mm-f1-4-e-mtf-bench-tests/
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: richardHaw on November 03, 2016, 16:28:37
So Roger at LensRentals has now done some measurements and comparisons also to the 85mm AFS 1.4,,, He likes the new 105 AFS 1.4

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/nikon-105mm-f1-4-e-mtf-bench-tests/

http://www.dslrbodies.com/lenses/nikon-lens-reviews/nikkor-prime-lens-reviews/nikon-105mm-f14e-af-s-ed.html

so did Thom :o :o :o
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: PeterN on November 03, 2016, 16:35:12
tempting. very tempting. How is the weight and handling on a D810?
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on November 03, 2016, 18:15:51
It handles like a charm if you have the battery grip mounted, It works for sure also without just not as well balanced


Lens hood is loose by design, so needs a pice of a zip tie in one of the holes.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: elsa hoffmann on November 03, 2016, 18:35:41
Well I was told its not a good buy and a waste of money (says my bank manager - but what does he know)

 ;D ;D I shall not be tempted
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: stenrasmussen on November 03, 2016, 18:40:54
Lens hood is loose by design, so needs a pice of a zip tie in one of the holes.

The lens hood on my 58G is also loose...I don't like that.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on November 03, 2016, 18:46:15
The 58 AFS 1,4 G got two small screws since it has short holes, all the other 1.4 G lenses has long holes.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: stenrasmussen on November 03, 2016, 20:21:47
The 58 AFS 1,4 G got two small screws since it has short holes, all the other 1.4 G lenses has long holes.

Whaaat? I cannot see any screws...tis all just plastic and some slots and tabs.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Bjørn Rørslett on November 03, 2016, 20:30:50
Erik meant the measures to be taken in order to stop the hood from falling off.

Short holes => run small screws through them

Long holes => cut a suitable piece of plastic strip (zip ties are perfect) and insert into the slot
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: stenrasmussen on November 03, 2016, 20:37:42
Erik meant the measures to be taken in order to stop the hood from falling off.

Short holes => run small screws through them

Long holes => cut a suitable piece of plastic strip (zip ties are perfect) and insert into the slot

Ach so...
Just jammed a tiny rubber band (meant for braces on teeth) in one of the bayonet slots and yes, Bob's me uncle  ;D
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Erik Lund on November 04, 2016, 08:52:28
Not quite so, I drilled two new small holes, one on each side of the hood right where the locking tap is on the lens hood.

Here is a shot of the screw

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/2/1606/24297583286_bd30e57a4a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/D26sZL)_EGL2390 (https://flic.kr/p/D26sZL) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr


Here is the tap from the inside, the screw now acts as an extension of the tap.

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/2/1444/24297583226_674cf45e5d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/D26sYJ)_EGL2377 (https://flic.kr/p/D26sYJ) by Erik Gunst Lund (https://www.flickr.com/photos/erik_lund/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: MILLIREHM on November 10, 2016, 23:40:32
Nikon where are you going

A lens likethat and a loose lens-hood (just similar as the superteles with unusual tripod foots)
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: Ilkka Nissilä on November 11, 2016, 01:39:00
The lens hood locks tight on my 105/1.4, 58/1.4, ... in fact the whole series. On my 60 AF-S and 105 AF-S Micros, the hood is getting loose over time and needs periodic replacement. However, those Micros were made many years ago.

As far as I can tell, Nikon tripod mounts are gradually improving. The 200/2 II mount is much better than the awful "ringing" mount of the Mk I. The RT-1 for 70-200/4 and 300 PF is quite good. I have also read the E FL supertele primes have reinforced tripod mounts compared to the G VR versions. The poor tripod mount of the 300/2.8 VR II is the primary reason I did not buy it and am waiting for the FL version with presumably improved mount to be introduced.

The reason many tripod mounts of Nikon teles in the first decade of the 21th century were so flexible remains a mystery. I think Nikon has been making better tripod mounts now because of the high resolution cameras. And probably popular complaints as well. Sigma tripod collars are like rubber. So it's not just Nikon who had the "bright" idea of a slightly flexible collar. I did notice that the flexible collar seems to have some attenuation characteristic for intermediate speeds (maybe 1/125s) compared to a more rigid collar. But at slower speeds the flexible collars are terrible. I think the assumption behind the slightly flexible design must have been that nobody shoots long lenses at 1/30s. Personally I really dislike the compositional imprecision that the flexible collars give as a side effect when locking the tripod head and letting go of the lens to shoot with a remote.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: bjornthun on November 11, 2016, 03:28:00
Tele lenses on tripods work better with EFCS and mirror up or mirrorless. Wind is still an issue though.
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: stenrasmussen on November 11, 2016, 08:40:05
Tele lenses on tripods work better with EFCS and mirror up or mirrorless. Wind is still an issue though.

Next technology up: WVR (Wind Vibration Reduction) 😁
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: PedroS on November 11, 2016, 09:36:07
Next technology up: WVR (Wind Vibration Reduction) 😁

+1
and for wildlifers AFM (animal freezing mode)
Title: Re: Nikkor 105mm 1.4 AFS E Compared to Nikkor 85mm 1.4 AFS
Post by: MILLIREHM on November 11, 2016, 15:33:07
+1 or photographers invisible mode